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View Full Version : New Cartridge - Audio Note IoI/IoII or Kiseki Purpleheart



Parkie37
01-04-2015, 23:36
I am wondering if anyone has heard the Audio Note IoI or even better, the IoII? I will be saving up for a new cartridge over the coming 6-8 months and I am planning on upgrading my Dynavector DV20X2Lo. There is nothing wrong with it, just want to upgrade once my new speakers are paid for and i have bought two more interconnects and a pair of speaker cables. Ok, so now that I have said that, I think that it will be 10-12 months away!

For various reasons, I have come down to either the AN cartridges or the Kiseki. I have been talking to an Audio Note dealer in another part of North America, on another discussion board and one of the cartridges that he recommends for my system is the Kiseki Purpleheart. But he did go on to say that the Audio Note IoI or IoII would match up perfectly to their SUTs and would sound great in my system. He had only heard the IoI, but had never heard the IoII.

Can anyone share any experiences with the Audio Note cartridges? I have a local dealer who has good experience with Kiseki, so I just need some information or opinions from personal experience listening to one of these cartridges, to help me make up my mind.

Thanks in advance,

Don

petrat
02-04-2015, 04:50
Not heard the Kiseki, or even seen one 'in the flesh', but it certainly is a good looking piece of craftsmanship.

I wholeheartedly recommend the Io, especially if you can fit it on the matching AN Arm ... and you'll have to trade in your SUT for the L version, of course. The good thing about the Io, apart from its glorious sound, is that it is extremely long-lived. I personally know of one that is around 3000 hours and going strong. Also, it is relatively cheap for AN to re-build when the time comes (around £700, I believe ... and they completely replace everything except the outer case)

Here's mine ...

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/002_zps9h0fr2n7.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/002_zps9h0fr2n7.jpg.html)

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier004_zpsda07a504.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier004_zpsda07a504.jpg.html)

Of course, it is well known that the red ones sounds better than the blue :D

Marco
02-04-2015, 08:18
Shtoppittt.... Every time I see that amazing T/T, I soil my scanties!! :unfair: :oops: :drool:

I wholeheartedly agree about the IO - it's truly one of the world's great cartridges.

Marco.

paskinn
02-04-2015, 09:12
Looking at your system, you are clearly someone who chooses carefully, and is rewarded with fine gear. But I would put-in a word of caution...the Io is a classic bit of 'cult' hi fi. Those who worship at its feet are blind to all else. But in the end it's another 'flavour' of mc...nothing more, nothing less. There are plenty of people out there who don't like them at all. I can't say which camp you might fall into...neither can you without trying one. The views of other people, with their own tastes, won't help define your tastes. As for kiseki...why? There are numerous excellent cartridges out there, some with long track records for design and consistency. Kiseki isn't one of them. Again, it may be very fine (I haven't heard one) but the real track record is missing. it's really a 'house brand' for a Dutch distributor. It shows some classic marketing techniques too.
This can seem boring to say, but there is only one way to judge cartridges...and that's to listen to them, in a familiar system. that's it. Full stop. Widen your search, include only cartridges you get a chance to hear. ignore the recommendations of others, they don't have your ears, your system, your room, or probably even your tastes.
It's lonely out there! There is no 'protection', no easy 'let the forums tell me what to think' option. You will have to struggle, make an effort. But you will be rewarded for that effort. Good luck....and remember, everything they tell you about hi fi may not be true. Check it for yourself.

anubisgrau
02-04-2015, 09:19
don't forget to try to hear miyajima shilabe, if you can. you may be surprised...

take5
02-04-2015, 10:38
As for kiseki...why? There are numerous excellent cartridges out there, some with long track records for design and consistency. Kiseki isn't one of them. Again, it may be very fine ](I haven't heard one)[/SIZE] but the real track record is missing. it's really a 'house brand' for a Dutch distributor. It shows some classic marketing techniques too.



I love your post, especially this bit. Sums up what this hobby should be about...... having a bit of a laugh and not taking things seriously.

belloire
02-04-2015, 10:48
having heard Audio note io I, II, gold, ltd and kondo io-m i'm a fan of the range...... also heard a couple of purple heart sapphires, and the io's win for me, any of them.

am i right in thinking you had a kiseki at one point Brian? how did it sound????????????? :lol:

DSJR
02-04-2015, 10:48
We all have different ears and I come from the era when both cartridges cost around £500 ($500 too probably ;)).

At the time, the IO refined the sound so much, it took the heart and soul out as well, leaving an uber-civilised and utterly pleasant sound that Top End gear lovers used to revere back then, but to me - at the time - lacking real drama and excitement. The Kiseki was far more my cuppa char, having some drive and drama in it's reproduction.

Having said the above, times have moved on, the products have been changed with modern production methods (and prices have gone through the roof too) and the tonal reproduction qualities may well have changed as well. I still think vinyl is 'safe enough' without a cartridge making it worse.

Me? I'd buy a top-model Decca or the Rega Apheta 2, and put a bit of much needed 'life' back into vinyl reproduction :lol:

take5
02-04-2015, 11:35
having heard Audio note io I, II, gold, ltd and kondo io-m i'm a fan of the range...... also heard a couple of purple heart sapphires, and the io's win for me, any of them.

am i right in thinking you had a kiseki at one point Brian? how did it sound????????????? :lol:

Darren, yes I did have a Kiseki PH. It came with a turntable that I bought. But sadly I never heard it as it was damaged when I got it, and I simply sold it, as it was.

However I have heard one. It sounded great.
Mike has one as his spare and was using it whilst his Kondo IO (j) was in Japan for a re-build. So I heard the Kiseki PH quite a few times. His is one of the best domestic systems I have heard, and the PH was not out of place in that system. Really nice.

But then his IO came back and it was even better. Now, I didnt do a side by side comparison on the same day. There was a gap between hearing the two cartridges. But to my ears the IO was better. Others agreed. I hope that helps the OP.

How good is the IO. Very good.

A few years ago I was using a Linn Troika. Very nice sounding cartridge. I then got an Ortofon Cadenza Black. I felt this was quite a bit better than the Troika. I then bought a Fidelity Research 7 series cartridge. Again, this was an upgrade over the Cadenza Black. The FR was fantastic and received much praise from all who heard it ( including A of S's Marco )

So, my cartridge path was upward, to me ears. I then bought a Kondo IO (j). I wasnt sure if it was going to better the FR. It did, and is the best sounding cartridge I have owned.

Like Darren, I have heard many IOs. They never sound less than great.

To the OP. In my opinion, the IO is for certain worthy of serious consideration.

belloire
02-04-2015, 12:05
brian, i heard Mikes and yours once Steve had it rebuilt and in both cases i'd have your io any day..... of all the 'standard' io's i've heard i think the io-j has been the best. once you get a better arm in, and a nice an sut it'll be the last you ever need :)

i think it's my next step after the ART1. but not for a while yet, until i save up!

Marco
02-04-2015, 14:56
Me? I'd buy a top-model Decca or the Rega Apheta 2, and put a bit of much needed 'life' back into vinyl reproduction :lol:

Only if your T/T and/or partnering system succeed in sucking it out! ;)

I certainly couldn't wish for any more 'life' in my vinyl reproduction.


At the time, the IO refined the sound so much, it took the heart and soul out as well, leaving an uber-civilised and utterly pleasant sound that Top End gear lovers used to revere back then, but to me - at the time - lacking real drama and excitement.

Were you wearing your 'deaf ears' again, Dave, when you arrived at that conclusion, much as you did with the M3D, et al? Hehehe....

I'm sorry, but what you've just described represents the polar opposite of the sound of any Io I've heard, where in fact they majored at what you've just said they lacked!

Marco.

Marco
02-04-2015, 15:04
Hi Brian,


The FR was fantastic and received much praise from all who heard it ( including A of S's Marco )


Could you remind me again of the occasion? :)

Marco.

take5
02-04-2015, 15:15
Hi Brian,



Could you remind me again of the occasion? :)

Marco.

Lol... Scalford, last year.

I think your opening gambit was " how much for the rusty nail ? "

It wasnt for sale, which is just as well for the others in the room.
Two Scotsmen trying to haggle..... never pretty.

Marco
02-04-2015, 15:22
Lol - ah yes, I remember now! :)

Marco.

DSJR
02-04-2015, 16:52
Marco, that was then and this is now! Like I said, things may well have changed all these years on.

Marco
02-04-2015, 16:59
Indeed. I think in these situations it's always wise to consider the context in which you heard [whatever it was] all those years ago, as it's so easy to think that you *know* how something sounds, simply because you're heard it in X or Y system, without taking appropriate consideration of the influence of all relevant variables :)

Marco.

Si74
02-04-2015, 17:07
Having had an IO on loan for about 6 months (mounted on a PU 7 on a big Lenco), I have to say it's what I would buy if I had the funds!
Love my Koetsu and have heard lots of mega expensive cartridges but the IO was a peach :-)
It was big temptation to listen constantly but since it wasn't mine, I had to settle for impressing visitors or it would have been worn
out by the time it went back to it's owner.

Parkie37
02-04-2015, 19:19
Not heard the Kiseki, or even seen one 'in the flesh', but it certainly is a good looking piece of craftsmanship.

I wholeheartedly recommend the Io, especially if you can fit it on the matching AN Arm ... and you'll have to trade in your SUT for the L version, of course. The good thing about the Io, apart from its glorious sound, is that it is extremely long-lived. I personally know of one that is around 3000 hours and going strong. Also, it is relatively cheap for AN to re-build when the time comes (around £700, I believe ... and they completely replace everything except the outer case)

Here's mine ...

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/002_zps9h0fr2n7.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/002_zps9h0fr2n7.jpg.html)

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff384/petrat56/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier004_zpsda07a504.jpg (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/petrat56/media/PetratHiFi%202013/PlatineVerdier004_zpsda07a504.jpg.html)

Of course, it is well known that the red ones sounds better than the blue :D

This is exactly what I was hoping for in a response. I hear comments like 'it's a good cartridge, with no major flaws, well balanced sound'. That doesn't really help me imagine what it will sound like! I am going to mount it on my VPI Classic 3 and I am planning on upgrading my AN-S2/H to an AN-S4/L at the same time. It will be an expensive move, but part of the reason that I would like to possibly go Audio Note is the reasonable cost of rebuild. I have three questions for you...

1. How would you describe the sound of the Io? Warm, analytical, bass heavy, bass light, all midrange (like a Koetsu), lots of detail and air.....
2. Is yours the IoI or the IoII?
3. Have you heard the difference between the two?

This is going to be my last big move/upgrade, so all information is appreciated!

Don

Parkie37
02-04-2015, 19:22
Shtoppittt.... Every time I see that amazing T/T, I soil my scanties!! :unfair: :oops: :drool:

I wholeheartedly agree about the IO - it's truly one of the world's great cartridges.

Marco.

This is what I am happy to hear : ) How would you describe what you have heard Marco, when listening to the Io? Was it the IoI or IoII?

I really love a natural sound with lots of detail. What kind of music would you have heard it play?

Thanks in advance!

Tarzan
02-04-2015, 19:38
Shtoppittt.... Every time I see that amazing T/T, I soil my scanties!! :unfair: :oops: :drool:

I wholeheartedly agree about the IO - it's truly one of the world's great cartridges.

Marco.


x87 Music does not get much better than hearing it on one of these.

Parkie37
02-04-2015, 19:42
Looking at your system, you are clearly someone who chooses carefully, and is rewarded with fine gear. But I would put-in a word of caution...the Io is a classic bit of 'cult' hi fi. Those who worship at its feet are blind to all else. But in the end it's another 'flavour' of mc...nothing more, nothing less. There are plenty of people out there who don't like them at all. I can't say which camp you might fall into...neither can you without trying one. The views of other people, with their own tastes, won't help define your tastes. As for kiseki...why? There are numerous excellent cartridges out there, some with long track records for design and consistency. Kiseki isn't one of them. Again, it may be very fine (I haven't heard one) but the real track record is missing. it's really a 'house brand' for a Dutch distributor. It shows some classic marketing techniques too.
This can seem boring to say, but there is only one way to judge cartridges...and that's to listen to them, in a familiar system. that's it. Full stop. Widen your search, include only cartridges you get a chance to hear. ignore the recommendations of others, they don't have your ears, your system, your room, or probably even your tastes.
It's lonely out there! There is no 'protection', no easy 'let the forums tell me what to think' option. You will have to struggle, make an effort. But you will be rewarded for that effort. Good luck....and remember, everything they tell you about hi fi may not be true. Check it for yourself.

I agree with pretty much everything that you say except one thing. No one that I have run across will lend you several MC cartridges to see what sounds best in your system. Speakers, yes, amplifier, yes, cables, yes...cartridges, no. Hence my questions. I have two dealers that I like to deal with. One I have ended up using for my vinyl setup as he is only about 25 minutes from my house. The other dealer is near my mom's house, which is a ferry ride away and he deals in Audio Note, Harbeth, Classe, Simaudio, Mac, Sonus Faber. I bought my amp and speakers from him (well, technically I am still paying for and waiting for the speakers) and the MC transformer. He has been at the hifi game since 1977. Knowing my tastes of Blues, Jazz, Rock, Folk, World and so on, he recommended either the IoI or a Koetsu Black. My vinyl dealer had a nice long discussion with me one day a few months ago about a future cartridge. He sells, Dynavector, Koetsu, Kiseki, Lyra, Accuphase, Air Tight, Linn, Clearaudio, Rega, Brinkmann, Cardas, Benz Micro and Shelter. He played the Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement for me on the second from the top of the line Clearaudio table. That was very nice! But we discussed my musical tastes and my system and my sound preferences. One by one he ruled out what I probably wouldn't like or couldn't afford and also why I wouldn't like that one. As he sells each, he doesn't tend to favour one over the other. In fact, he doesn't sell Audio Note, but he was telling me how much he had enjoyed hearing AN before. He had been interested in picking it up as a line, but there is another dealer one town over, so he is looking at other lines instead. I think he will bring in Audio Note Japan or Shindo.

At the end of our discussion he told me that he thought that I would really like the Dynavector XX2 MkII or XV-1S (but warned me that it is better but at twice the price), the Koetsu cartridges as long as it is one of the 'stone bodied' cartridges or the Kiseki Purpleheart or to a lesser degree, the blue. I also have been having a private chat online with a large Audio Note dealer in the U.S. and just asked for his opinions on this subject, as to what has worked well in his experience and what hasn't been a good combination, keeping in mind my preferences. He stated that he didn't like the lower Koetsus, the bottom model that he liked was the Rosewood Signature Platinum. He has heard the Kiseki Purpleheart several times and thought that it worked beautifully with similar AN gear. He is also familiar with my table. Lastly he recommended the Dynavector XX2MkII, but warned that it could have a hard or aggressive upper mid and lower treble if the MC Transformer didn't match up perfectly.

So, that is what has gotten me to this point. I certainly don't buy based just on what someone wrote, but I do like to utilize several opinions as background information that will hopefully be helpful. No one will choose for me, but I do value other people's input.

Have you heard the IoI or IoII? How would you describe it's sound?

Thanks,
Don

Parkie37
02-04-2015, 19:43
don't forget to try to hear miyajima shilabe, if you can. you may be surprised...

I have heard good things about it but there isn't a local dealer, so I am not really interested as I want to make sure that I have support with my purchase. I would like to hear it though!

Parkie37
02-04-2015, 19:45
I love your post, especially this bit. Sums up what this hobby should be about...... having a bit of a laugh and not taking things seriously.

As I mentioned in my welcome post, I want to make sure that this hobby is fun! That being said, I certainly get a little serious or nervous about dropping several thousand dollars on a cartridge and SUT combo : )

Parkie37
02-04-2015, 19:56
We all have different ears and I come from the era when both cartridges cost around £500 ($500 too probably ;)).

At the time, the IO refined the sound so much, it took the heart and soul out as well, leaving an uber-civilised and utterly pleasant sound that Top End gear lovers used to revere back then, but to me - at the time - lacking real drama and excitement. The Kiseki was far more my cuppa char, having some drive and drama in it's reproduction.

Having said the above, times have moved on, the products have been changed with modern production methods (and prices have gone through the roof too) and the tonal reproduction qualities may well have changed as well. I still think vinyl is 'safe enough' without a cartridge making it worse.

Me? I'd buy a top-model Decca or the Rega Apheta 2, and put a bit of much needed 'life' back into vinyl reproduction :lol:

I am certainly interested in some drive and drama along with some richness (as opposed to a thin or lifeless but detailed sound). The desire to have more body to the music is partly what drove me from Simaudio Moon 600i/Proac D40R combo to the Audio Note. I loved the previous setup but wanted more body and warmth.

Parkie37
02-04-2015, 19:57
Darren, yes I did have a Kiseki PH. It came with a turntable that I bought. But sadly I never heard it as it was damaged when I got it, and I simply sold it, as it was.

However I have heard one. It sounded great.
Mike has one as his spare and was using it whilst his Kondo IO (j) was in Japan for a re-build. So I heard the Kiseki PH quite a few times. His is one of the best domestic systems I have heard, and the PH was not out of place in that system. Really nice.

But then his IO came back and it was even better. Now, I didnt do a side by side comparison on the same day. There was a gap between hearing the two cartridges. But to my ears the IO was better. Others agreed. I hope that helps the OP.

How good is the IO. Very good.

A few years ago I was using a Linn Troika. Very nice sounding cartridge. I then got an Ortofon Cadenza Black. I felt this was quite a bit better than the Troika. I then bought a Fidelity Research 7 series cartridge. Again, this was an upgrade over the Cadenza Black. The FR was fantastic and received much praise from all who heard it ( including A of S's Marco )

So, my cartridge path was upward, to me ears. I then bought a Kondo IO (j). I wasnt sure if it was going to better the FR. It did, and is the best sounding cartridge I have owned.

Like Darren, I have heard many IOs. They never sound less than great.

To the OP. In my opinion, the IO is for certain worthy of serious consideration.

This is all really good info! Thank you. When you say that it sounded the best out of the cartridges that you heard, what did it do better than the others? What would you say it's strengths are? Weaknesses?

Parkie37
02-04-2015, 20:00
Only if your T/T and/or partnering system succeed in sucking it out! ;)

I certainly couldn't wish for any more 'life' in my vinyl reproduction.

Were you wearing your 'deaf ears' again, Dave, when you arrived at that conclusion, much as you did with the M3D, et al? Hehehe....

I'm sorry, but what you've just described represents the polar opposite of the sound of any Io I've heard, where in fact they majored at what you've just said they lacked!

Marco.


Ooohhhh! That is what I have been hoping to hear! Any more description of what the strengths and weakness are of the Io? Have you heard the IoII?

Thanks,

Don

DSJR
02-04-2015, 20:32
Where I come from - I don't like the Dynavector you use, too 'analogue-bassy' for my tastes and I personally found the 17D series more to my tastes, the leaner bass better reflecting the way records are actually cut in my experiences. A fellow poster here bought one, fended me off beautifully (:lol:) yet sold it on after a few months for the very reasons I cautioned him about I seem to recall.

If you like the Dynavector but want better, an IO will refine substantially what you have if my old memories are anything to go by. Please remember that I'm coming at vinyl from a Decca/Apheta point of view, with tonal presentations/balances that some here would dislike with a vengeance. Just so's you know :)

Good luck...

petrat
02-04-2015, 20:36
This is exactly what I was hoping for in a response. I hear comments like 'it's a good cartridge, with no major flaws, well balanced sound'. That doesn't really help me imagine what it will sound like! I am going to mount it on my VPI Classic 3 and I am planning on upgrading my AN-S2/H to an AN-S4/L at the same time. It will be an expensive move, but part of the reason that I would like to possibly go Audio Note is the reasonable cost of rebuild. I have three questions for you...

1. How would you describe the sound of the Io? Warm, analytical, bass heavy, bass light, all midrange (like a Koetsu), lots of detail and air.....
2. Is yours the IoI or the IoII?
3. Have you heard the difference between the two?

This is going to be my last big move/upgrade, so all information is appreciated!

Don

1. This is where people will hear things differently, of course ... anyways, here goes. IMO, the Io1 is a fine balance of neutrality and ever-so-slight warmth. It is more transparent than either the Koetsu Black or SPU, and lacks a bit of their trademark 'body' in the midrange. However, voices can be startlingly realistic, and it is way more dynamic than those cartridges, with an ability to drag detail off the vinyl, but still maintains coherence (rather than separating everything into artificial component parts). I would expect in your set-up for it to be a good balance between the 'detail' hifi presentation of some modern cartridges, and the more vintage 'warm' presentation. mm fans may see it as lacking in character, but it's probably as close as I have heard to being 'neutral', but in a good way. As an audio buddy said, 'that's probably all the cartridge you need really'. In particular, on the AN Arm3, bass is very good ... textured, fast and accurate.
2. I have the Io1, in red, of course :)
3. I have heard all the Io versions, including the top of the line Limited field coil jobbie, which is just ridiculously good and costs more than my car :eek: IME the Io2 gives a very slight bit more of everything than the Io1: detail, dynamics, bass texture, highs ... but IMO it is not a major improvement over the Io1 .. maybe a few percent at most? And the Gold does a little bit more again, but not anything really different.

BTH K10A
02-04-2015, 21:49
Having recently heard a Soundsmith Strain Guage cartridge in a top class system that has replaced and Io (not sure which model) which in turn had replaced a Koetsu Urushi, I would not discount the Soundsmith as IMHO it had speed, neutrality and a presence across the complete frequency range I've not heard fromany other cartridge. Looks are not to my taste but sound is to die for.

Mike Adams
02-04-2015, 22:25
Would be interesting to see what Tom Knight has to say on this since he has gone from a Jap IO (rebuilt as a IO2) to a Miyajima Shilabe. I can only say that within his system the Shilabe sounds great...

petrat
03-04-2015, 07:01
Would be interesting to see what Tom Knight has to say on this since he has gone from a Jap IO (rebuilt as a IO2) to a Miyajima Shilabe. I can only say that within his system the Shilabe sounds great...

Yes, I agree, having heard it! As far as I could tell, it seemed to have pretty much all the dynamics and detail of the Io combined with a touch more of the 'body' of the SPU/Koetsu. It can also use a more 'standard' SUT than the Io, although it does have its own peculiarities electrically, so careful matching may be needed? In actual fact, it sounded very, very similar to my Ortofon A95 SPU, which I'm currently adoring :)

I must say that the Soundsmith Strain Gauge intrigues me, as I used to design strain gauge precision measuring equipment for a living. I would love to hear one.

Parkie37
03-04-2015, 07:46
1. This is where people will hear things differently, of course ... anyways, here goes. IMO, the Io1 is a fine balance of neutrality and ever-so-slight warmth. It is more transparent than either the Koetsu Black or SPU, and lacks a bit of their trademark 'body' in the midrange. However, voices can be startlingly realistic, and it is way more dynamic than those cartridges, with an ability to drag detail off the vinyl, but still maintains coherence (rather than separating everything into artificial component parts). I would expect in your set-up for it to be a good balance between the 'detail' hifi presentation of some modern cartridges, and the more vintage 'warm' presentation. mm fans may see it as lacking in character, but it's probably as close as I have heard to being 'neutral', but in a good way. As an audio buddy said, 'that's probably all the cartridge you need really'. In particular, on the AN Arm3, bass is very good ... textured, fast and accurate.
2. I have the Io1, in red, of course :)
3. I have heard all the Io versions, including the top of the line Field Coil jobbie, which is just ridiculously good and costs more than my car :eek: IME the Io2 gives a very slight bit more of everything than the Io1: detail, dynamics, bass texture, highs ... but IMO it is not a major improvement over the Io1 .. maybe a few percent at most? And the Gold does a little bit more again, but not anything really different.

Thanks Peter. This is helping me quite a bit. I was wondering if I should hold off and save up even more for the IoII, but at 50%-65% price premium over the IoI, a few percent better doesn't make any sense. To me, in my budget. It would have to be quite a bit better.

I do appreciate that everyone has a different opinion, but I feel that I am starting to get a more clear picture. The top cartridges scare me a little more due to replacement cost and as my dealer said, he spent quite a bit of money on a Lyra Atlas and didn't like it at all! I am hoping to avoid that pitfall 😄

Parkie37
03-04-2015, 08:04
Having recently heard a Soundsmith Strain Guage cartridge in a top class system that has replaced and Io (not sure which model) which in turn had replaced a Koetsu Urushi, I would not discount the Soundsmith as IMHO it had speed, neutrality and a presence across the complete frequency range I've not heard fromany other cartridge. Looks are not to my taste but sound is to die for.

It looks lovely but I think the Strain Gauge is about US $8K. Ouch! I bet it sounds great though!

take5
03-04-2015, 08:33
This is all really good info! Thank you. When you say that it sounded the best out of the cartridges that you heard, what did it do better than the others? What would you say it's strengths are? Weaknesses?



Don, you have started a very interesting thread, which is leading to some interesting replies.

Im not sure that I can help you, as I tend not to think in Hi fi terms when listening. So, I dont listen for soundstage, imaging, depth, more/less bass, clearer mids, prat etc etc.

My listening is much more simplistic/basic.

Do I like the tone quality on offer. Does it give me the vibe I want to experience.

Of the cartridges that I mentioned, (old cliche coming up ! ) I could quite happily live with either the Cadenza Black, or the Fidelity Research , or the IO. They all gave me the feeling that I want.
If I didnt enjoy the swapping side of this hobby, I would have lived on, blissfully unaware that there was other stuff out there.

But I was lucky enough to be overlap with them and do direct comparisons. Each time, I simply kept the one I liked best. I am not talking huge jumps/margins between them. But I have ended up with the IO.

I dont go for the old "sounded just like the real thing". I dont believe it is possible.
But the IO gives me the best representation of a real instrument or voice that I have heard in my system. It sings to me on my wavelength. So, it gets my vote.

I am lucky in that I now know lots of people who are also interested in this hobby. So, I get the chance to hear lots of different stuff. It is a great and cheap way to experience stuff.
It sounds as if you arent in such a lucky place, so here you are.

As you see, you are getting lots of names/brands thrown at you.

In terms of the IO, I will defer to Peter, who has more experience than me. But in my limited experience I think he is correct in his comparison of the IO 1 and 2.

The Io really is great, and I would be very surprised if you were unhappy with it. Just dont make friends with anyone who owns a " gold" version. :)

pure sound
03-04-2015, 13:16
I was pleasantly surprised by the jump from an Io1 to the IoGold, the differences to the magnetic circuit yielding really worthwhile improvements in the reproduction of instrument timbre.I'm not sure that the step from Io1 to Io2 is so significant. All that changes, afaik, is the material the side panels are made from.

I use an Io Limited nowadays which I find preferable to anything else I've had the opportunity to listen to.

If the Soundsmith is a bit spendy,keep an eye out for the Panasonic EPC-450 that it is based on. You do need a particular kind of specialist amplifier for it. ie not an RIAA Eq stage. Occasionally the Technics one comes up. A friend had a couple of the cartridges & we built a valve stage for them but it did still need a little eq to get the frequency response flat.

huw chardon
04-04-2015, 15:37
I am wondering if anyone has heard the Audio Note IoI or even better, the IoII? I will be saving up for a new cartridge over the coming 6-8 months and I am planning on upgrading my Dynavector DV20X2Lo. There is nothing wrong with it, just want to upgrade once my new speakers are paid for and i have bought two more interconnects and a pair of speaker cables. Ok, so now that I have said that, I think that it will be 10-12 months away!

For various reasons, I have come down to either the AN cartridges or the Kiseki. I have been talking to an Audio Note dealer in another part of North America, on another discussion board and one of the cartridges that he recommends for my system is the Kiseki Purpleheart. But he did go on to say that the Audio Note IoI or IoII would match up perfectly to their SUTs and would sound great in my system. He had only heard the IoI, but had never heard the IoII.

Can anyone share any experiences with the Audio Note cartridges? I have a local dealer who has good experience with Kiseki, so I just need some information or opinions from personal experience listening to one of these cartridges, to help me make up my mind.

Thanks in advance,

Don

For it has to be Vdh cartridges, he will build one tuned to the sound you like, also read about stylus profiles, his are the best, smaller major radius, deeper in the groove, so tack lighter, with less surface noise, I have had an io, joe tzu, kiseki,and loads of other high end cartridges, but, will only buy Vdh now.



Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.

pure sound
05-04-2015, 16:38
Most Io's sold in Europe came fitted with the vdH stylus as standard. (Back in the 80's anyhow) ANUK actually source a better diamond from Japan now though.

sq225917
05-04-2015, 17:37
I don't have a dog in this fight, I run a Benz LP, but the An Lo carts I've heard are the best carts I've heard.

I'd suggest the match between cart and stepup/ phonostage is as important as the cart choice itself.

Parkie37
06-04-2015, 05:46
Don, you have started a very interesting thread, which is leading to some interesting replies.

Im not sure that I can help you, as I tend not to think in Hi fi terms when listening. So, I dont listen for soundstage, imaging, depth, more/less bass, clearer mids, prat etc etc.

My listening is much more simplistic/basic.

Do I like the tone quality on offer. Does it give me the vibe I want to experience.

Of the cartridges that I mentioned, (old cliche coming up ! ) I could quite happily live with either the Cadenza Black, or the Fidelity Research , or the IO. They all gave me the feeling that I want.
If I didnt enjoy the swapping side of this hobby, I would have lived on, blissfully unaware that there was other stuff out there.

But I was lucky enough to be overlap with them and do direct comparisons. Each time, I simply kept the one I liked best. I am not talking huge jumps/margins between them. But I have ended up with the IO.

I dont go for the old "sounded just like the real thing". I dont believe it is possible.
But the IO gives me the best representation of a real instrument or voice that I have heard in my system. It sings to me on my wavelength. So, it gets my vote.

I am lucky in that I now know lots of people who are also interested in this hobby. So, I get the chance to hear lots of different stuff. It is a great and cheap way to experience stuff.
It sounds as if you arent in such a lucky place, so here you are.

As you see, you are getting lots of names/brands thrown at you.

In terms of the IO, I will defer to Peter, who has more experience than me. But in my limited experience I think he is correct in his comparison of the IO 1 and 2.

The Io really is great, and I would be very surprised if you were unhappy with it. Just dont make friends with anyone who owns a " gold" version. :)

Brian
You have given a good description. I appreciate what everyone adds. I have to confess that I would like to see just how much more the Gold version would be. Probably above my pay grade, but it sure sounds like you were impressed. I suspect that the IoI is in my future, but I would love to get my hands on a Shilabe or a Purpleheart, to get a sense of what they are capable of.

Parkie37
06-04-2015, 05:54
I was pleasantly surprised by the jump from an Io1 to the IoGold, the differences to the magnetic circuit yielding really worthwhile improvements in the reproduction of instrument timbre.I'm not sure that the step from Io1 to Io2 is so significant. All that changes, afaik, is the material the side panels are made from.

I use an Io Limited nowadays which I find preferable to anything else I've had the opportunity to listen to.

If the Soundsmith is a bit spendy,keep an eye out for the Panasonic EPC-450 that it is based on. You do need a particular kind of specialist amplifier for it. ie not an RIAA Eq stage. Occasionally the Technics one comes up. A friend had a couple of the cartridges & we built a valve stage for them but it did still need a little eq to get the frequency response flat.


I know that it's incredibly hard to put into numbers, but if the jump from IoI to IoII is say 5%-10% in sound quality or performance, could you put a number to the improvement that the Io Gold gives? I realize that is rather vague, just trying to get some sort of idea.

As far as the Strain Gauge is concerned, I don't want to buy a separate amplifier for it, on top of the high cost of the cartridge. I am really comfortable knowing that if I choose the AN cartridge, that there is a perfect match SUT for it, without any matching concerns. I'm just a little concerned about choosing the exact right AN SUT for the Kiseki. I'm sure my dealer will use his experience to help me avoid any wrong choices

Parkie37
06-04-2015, 05:58
For it has to be Vdh cartridges, he will build one tuned to the sound you like, also read about stylus profiles, his are the best, smaller major radius, deeper in the groove, so tack lighter, with less surface noise, I have had an io, joe tzu, kiseki,and loads of other high end cartridges, but, will only buy Vdh now.



Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.


Paul
Thanks for your contribution. I will certainly give that some thought. I am looking at the big picture and system synergy, which is where the AN cartridge will shine, but I am open to all options.
Don

Parkie37
06-04-2015, 06:01
I don't have a dog in this fight, I run a Benz LP, but the An Lo carts I've heard are the best carts I've heard.

I'd suggest the match between cart and stepup/ phonostage is as important as the cart choice itself.


I think that you are right. A friend of mine is loving his A23 SUT/Denon 103 combo on his RP-6. Although I am considering all options, I do feel that I have the best chance of success with the AN SUT and cartridge combo. Perhaps I am being too safe or cautious.

petrat
06-04-2015, 08:41
Hi Don.

FWIW, I'd spend any 'extra' budget over the price of the Io1 on a better SUT, rather than on the cartridge. The better SUTs really do make a bigger 'bang-for-buck' difference IME.

pure sound
06-04-2015, 16:40
I know that it's incredibly hard to put into numbers, but if the jump from IoI to IoII is say 5%-10% in sound quality or performance, could you put a number to the improvement that the Io Gold gives? I realize that is rather vague, just trying to get some sort of idea.

As far as the Strain Gauge is concerned, I don't want to buy a separate amplifier for it, on top of the high cost of the cartridge. I am really comfortable knowing that if I choose the AN cartridge, that there is a perfect match SUT for it, without any matching concerns. I'm just a little concerned about choosing the exact right AN SUT for the Kiseki. I'm sure my dealer will use his experience to help me avoid any wrong choices

By your scale I'd put the jump to an IoGold at more like 30-40%

I'm also not sure that the old Japan made Io2 is any better than a current Io1 fwiw. An un-rebuilt one would probably sound a good deal less refined.

Re the strain gauge cartridges, the Panasonic one is basically a much lower cost way of getting a taste & I suspect it doesn't give much if anything away to the Soundsmith. The matching 'decoder' can be had fairly cheaply and not just from Panasonic/Technics. Kenwood amongst others also did one and any of them can be found for as little as £100 or so. Given the fondness here for Technics TT's I'm surprised that more people haven't explored their SG cartridges.

Parkie37
06-04-2015, 18:44
Hi Don.

FWIW, I'd spend any 'extra' budget over the price of the Io1 on a better SUT, rather than on the cartridge. The better SUTs really do make a bigger 'bang-for-buck' difference IME.

Actually, that brings up an interesting option for me. My dealer has a ten year old AN-S8/L and an AN IoI that will need rebuilding soon. He wants to keep them to demo AN gear, but has offered them to me at quite a good price. Although I will have to save up for the better part of a year and he may have sold it by then, I have been quite tempted to ask him to hold it for me.

All else being equal, those of you who have heard various AN cartridges, would you go for the old SUT and cartridge or the new IoI and AN-S4L?

Parkie37
07-04-2015, 00:46
14390
Hi Don.

FWIW, I'd spend any 'extra' budget over the price of the Io1 on a better SUT, rather than on the cartridge. The better SUTs really do make a bigger 'bang-for-buck' difference IME.

Peter
Here is the demo room that I listened to the Platine in. He was just breaking in the horns.

petrat
07-04-2015, 07:02
14390

Peter
Here is the demo room that I listened to the Platine in. He was just breaking in the horns.

Great joogly-mooglies! :stalks:

Talking of S4 SUTs, there's one in the classifieds on HiFi WigWam. Not sure if it'd be a bargain after importing, but the seller is a reputable enthusiast.

Parkie37
08-04-2015, 16:04
Great joogly-mooglies! :stalks:

Talking of S4 SUTs, there's one in the classifieds on HiFi WigWam. Not sure if it'd be a bargain after importing, but the seller is a reputable enthusiast.

That certainly looks tempting, but I have to finish paying for my speakers first. I'm like you Peter, in that although I have spent a fair few dollars on my system, I have gotten one fantastic deal after another in order to make it work. In fact, it's just that exact reason that I will most likely end up with an Audio Note UK IoI cartridge and SUT. The two options available to me through my local dealer are fantastic. I'm not ruling anything out...just can't argue with success :)

Parkie37
08-04-2015, 16:13
14390

Peter
Here is the demo room that I listened to the Platine in. He was just breaking in the horns.

For the record, I am now not sure whether it was the La Platine Verdier or the Verdier Nouveau that he was playing. Also, he sold the top of the line Clearaudio table to a client the week I was there and was playing Clearaudio Master Reference with the expensive linear tracking arm. The fellow that spent $100K on the Clearaudio table had never had a top notch table before! Everything he had owned had been in the $2K to $3K range before :eek:

Parkie37
28-09-2015, 22:55
For the record, I am now not sure whether it was the La Platine Verdier or the Verdier Nouveau that he was playing. Also, he sold the top of the line Clearaudio table to a client the week I was there and was playing Clearaudio Master Reference with the expensive linear tracking arm. The fellow that spent $100K on the Clearaudio table had never had a top notch table before! Everything he had owned had been in the $2K to $3K range before :eek:

I checked with the dealer and it was in fact the Verdier La Platine. He ended up selling it at as a demo at quite an attractive price. He was bringing in other top notch turntables. Every 1.5 to 2.5 years, he sells his top tables to bring in other options for us to come and listen to : )

When I saw the ad for the Verdier for sale, I was very tempted, but it would have been quite a stretch to afford and it didn't come with a tonearm : (

Tarzan
29-09-2015, 04:51
This is exactly what I was hoping for in a response. I hear comments like 'it's a good cartridge, with no major flaws, well balanced sound'. That doesn't really help me imagine what it will sound like! I am going to mount it on my VPI Classic 3 and I am planning on upgrading my AN-S2/H to an AN-S4/L at the same time. It will be an expensive move, but part of the reason that I would like to possibly go Audio Note is the reasonable cost of rebuild. I have three questions for you...

1. How would you describe the sound of the Io? Warm, analytical, bass heavy, bass light, all midrange (like a Koetsu), lots of detail and air.....
2. Is yours the IoI or the IoII?
3. Have you heard the difference between the two?

This is going to be my last big move/upgrade, so all information is appreciated!

Don

l have heard an IO, ( do not know which model:doh:) in a big AN system and it sounded like er nothing at all, like there was nothing n between your self and the artist playing :youtheman: with bass you could walk on. A great cartridge it really is.