Croft Micro 25 Basic

[Haselsh1]

Here we go; yesterday, Tuesday 24th March 2015, I received my newly purchased Croft Micro 25 Basic preamplifier with inbuilt phono stage to replace the one I had to sell back in 2010. The first thing I noticed is how much heavier it is than I remember. Exactly the same packaging but somewhat heavier preamp. I set it up going into my Rotel RB850 monoblocks and KEF Q500’s and waited for everything to warm up.

First CD played; Shaun Escoffery ‘In The Red Room’.
Brilliant and just how I remembered it. Extremely refined, gentle, gracious, extreme levels of hidden detail and everso slightly warm.

The next one I tried was Damon Albarn ‘Everyday Robots’ on vinyl. Good grief, this sounded immensely analogue with fantastic stereo separation and the most involving, laid back sound I have heard for years.

Next the first album by Evanescence on CD. OK so not the best choice. Rather too polite and restrained but again, massive loads of hidden detail.

I think if I had to sum up the sound of my system now I would say that it is highly involving with the Croft with a huge sense of foot tapping ability. This preamp holds you in a trance and doesn’t want to let you go. I have complained in the past about the dual volume pots but I shall just have to get used to them.

For the future, my intention is to buy a pair of Croft Series Seven monoblocks to replace the Rotel’s even though the Rotel’s are amazing poweramps and truly dual mono in construction even with separate power supplies when used as stereo amplifiers. The good thing is that the Croft’s are genuine mono and not bridged. The drawback is that the Croft’s are 50 Wpc whereas the Rotel’s are 150 Wpc.


I would like to seriously thank Hi-Fi Dave for his assistance with this purchase. A definite gent.

[The Black Adder]

Excellent... They are good are't they.

The Micro 25 is astoundingly good value. The phono stage alone is worth the layout.

Plenty of headroom for upgrades with the 25 too... :)

As for the dual pots.. I got used to them, I really didn't take a dislike to them as some do. You will be fine with them. The only other thing I'd suggest is to have a top quality attenuator fitted. I have the Khozmo in mine and it's top notch.

But first of all... enjoy the music :) :cool:

[hifi_dave]

Glad you are enjoying your Micro Basic.

[Jimbo]

Glad the Micro 25 still sounds as good as you remember Shaun. I have been modifying my 25R for the last 2 years with tube rolling (now all NOS) and internal modifications. Each step has improved on what is a great pre even in it's basic form.

I am still surprised just how much more you can get out of them!

[basnas]

Hi Shaun
Is yours Croft micro 25 basic with one or two transformer.
Best jan

[Haselsh1]

Hi Shaun
Is yours Croft micro 25 basic with one or two transformer.
Best jan

Jan, strange you should ask this question. I do not know as I haven't opened it up to have a look but when I received it a couple of days ago, it did seem a lot heavier than I remembered it being. I thought that in itself was a little odd so maybe your comment could answer the question.

[RichB]

My basic and I have been spending some quality time together today...

I've got round the input sensitvity issue by feeding it to a passive pre until some attenuators turn up.

After a bit of a falling out last week, we've enjoyed a nice afternoon together playing some radio paradise.

[Haselsh1]

Yes, I spent some serious time with my Micro Basic yesterday afternoon listening to the new vinyl by Bryan Ferry. Bloody awful album, desperately bland and uninspiring. I also listened to the new vinyl by the Black Star Riders. Marginally better with a lot more life and energy. I also bought 'Kind of Blue' on vinyl but haven't played that yet. It has been an age since I last heard that on CD. This time though it is vinyl...!

[hifi_dave]

I always look on the Micro Basic as a great phono stage with a free pre-amp.

[RichB]

I always look on the Micro Basic as a great phono stage with a free pre-amp.

That's primarily what I bought mine for...

[basnas]

Hi shaun
Can you upload a picture of yours Croft without the lid.
Maybe it is differents build to the first.
Some pictures of my micro..


1430314304

[Haselsh1]

Hi shaun
Can you upload a picture of yours Croft without the lid.
Maybe it is differents build to the first.
Some pictures of my micro..


1430314304

Jan, my Micro Basic is exactly the same as yours on the inside.

Does anyone know of an alternative to a 5965 valve as I have been told it is simply an ECC81...? I'd like to start upgrading the valves in my preamp and would like to start soon. Any advice would be very welcome.

[The Black Adder]

Yep.. it's the ECC81

[Haselsh1]

Yep.. it's the ECC81

Does the ECC81 in this preamp act as a phase splitter...? Do the ECC83's act as the preamp phono stage...? Are there any valves in the line stage...?

[OD1]

Hi Shaun,
Looking at your photo the two valves on the right are for the Phono stage, and the other one is the line stage valve.
I don't think the Micro has a phase splitter, but I could be wrong.
Hope this helps ?
Oliver

[simon e]

Hi Shaun,
Looking at your photo the two valves on the right are for the Phono stage, and the other one is the line stage valve.
I don't think the Micro has a phase splitter, but I could be wrong.
Hope this helps ?
Oliver

Oliver, that's correct 2 valve's on the right are the phono stage and the valve on the left is the line stage. If they are the same a my micro 25 they all should be ECC83's.

[Haselsh1]

Hello guys, thank's everso much for your input.

The two valves on the left are identical and are Sovtek ECC83's. The valve on the right is a GE ECC81 or 5965.

I could be wrong but I am guessing that the solo ECC81 is the line stage and the dual ECC83's are the phono stage...?

If this is indeed the case then I ought to be upgrading the phono stage first with gold pinned Genelec Gold Lions. It is mad to think that the valves will cost almost as much as the whole amp.

By the way; this description is looking head on to the front of the amp.

[Jimbo]

Hello guys, thank's everso much for your input.

The two valves on the left are identical and are Sovtek ECC83's. The valve on the right is a GE ECC81 or 5965.

I could be wrong but I am guessing that the solo ECC81 is the line stage and the dual ECC83's are the phono stage...?

If this is indeed the case then I ought to be upgrading the phono stage first with gold pinned Genelec Gold Lions. It is mad to think that the valves will cost almost as much as the whole amp.

By the way; this description is looking head on to the front of the amp.

Hi Shaun,
The ECC81 in the linestage was probably put there to lower the gain -best pop a ECC83 back in:)

[Haselsh1]

Hi Shaun,
The ECC81 in the linestage was probably put there to lower the gain -best pop a ECC83 back in:)

James, thank you for advising. I am already finding that the CD input is a whole lot louder than my phono input so wouldn't an ECC81 be better...? Would an ECC83 make things even louder...?

[Jimbo]

James, thank you for advising. I am already finding that the CD input is a whole lot louder than my phono input so wouldn't an ECC81 be better...? Would an ECC83 make things even louder...?


Yes an ECC83 in the linestage will make it louder so if you find your CD loud enough I would leave alone.

I only use phono stage on my Micro 25R and as it goes through the linestage I need as much ooomph as I can get. However I am using a 12BH7A valve in my linestage as it has been reconfigured for this.

[simon e]

Hi Shaun, James is correct there should be 3 ecc83's fitted, it might be worth dropping Glenn an email he is very approachable. Its possible to lower the gain of the micro 25 by replacing 2 resistors in the line stage.

[Tarzan]

May l chime in here and go a little off topic and say AudioAl lent me his Croft Basic and l am using a Muse M50 T Amp as a power amplifier and Ortofon T5 step ups:mental: into the MM Stage of The Croft and l have to say with the Cadenza Black cartridge:wow: this phono stage is quite sublime! Crickey this sounds great.:)

[Haselsh1]

Hey guys, I had a spare set of four ECC82's hanging around and as I know they are compatible with 83's and 81's I thought I would give them a go. They are German National valves and the first thing I noticed was that they sound amazing when compared to the stock Sovtek valves but strangely, there was no noticeable drop in volume which I was expecting. It was only an experiment late last night to see if there would be much of a difference.

[Haselsh1]

I have also heard from a source that Glenn Croft is no longer making the Micro Basic due to financial losses on each item made. I can't say I blame him if that is indeed the case.

[Jimbo]

I think Glenn was very generous helping folk out with a super cheap hand built valve preamp during the 'crunch'. Not surprised if the basic was now dropped.

I remember buying his first Micro which I think was £125 back in the late 80's and I thought that was incredible value. If you look at the case, components and time to hand build the new Micro preamps they are indeed a bargain even at the higher priced specs.

If you get a chance Shaun try some NOS Tesla ECC83's in the phono stage - simply stunning!

[Haselsh1]

I think Glenn was very generous helping folk out with a super cheap hand built valve preamp during the 'crunch'. Not surprised if the basic was now dropped.

I remember buying his first Micro which I think was £125 back in the late 80's and I thought that was incredible value. If you look at the case, components and time to hand build the new Micro preamps they are indeed a bargain even at the higher priced specs.

If you get a chance Shaun try some NOS Tesla ECC83's in the phono stage - simply stunning!

Yes James, I intend to try out some really expensive ECC83's at some point but I will be starting with Genelec gold pinned Gold Lions as I used those in an Icon Audio amplifier and they were stunning. I shall continue with the National ECC82's for the time being as they are so much better sounding than the original Sovtek's and as they are compatible pin wise I can't see any reason for going back.

I fully understand Glenn stopping production of the Micro Basic. I simply cannot understand any business person losing money; that is not a business, it is a charity and I am so sure Glenn is not a charity. I also understand that Glenn wanted to help his 'fans' by giving them something that was readily affordable. I am so glad I found this preamp and, in the not to distant future when I get a pension payout, I shall almost certainly be investing in a Micro 25 R to use with my Rotel monoblocks. Now for that, I can't wait.

[Haselsh1]

Well, I have just bought three ECC83's of the Genelec Gold Lion gold pinned variety to try to upgrade the Croft Micro Basic. I shall report in due course however, they are due to be delivered in three days. Countdown begins...!

[RichB]

Well a quick update on mine... I found it very loud when running directly to my NVA monoblocks. Mr Jollyfix of this parish was kind enough to send me some Rothwell attenuators and a kimber attenuated cable to try.

Both of these made it a bit less loud on the input and gave me a little bit more control from the dual volume pots. However the best results I'm having have been when using it as a phono stage into my passive pre. I've got the crofts pots set to about 6oclock and that gives me plenty to work with and a nice degree of control via the icon passive. This may fly in the face of the conventional wisdom but the sound I'm enjoying right now is fabulous. Airy, detailed but full of verve and very sweet indeed. Some have suggested that all I'm doing is adding distortion and more links in the chain but the sound I'm getting speaks for itself. It's lovely.

The Croft will stay in my system, serving as both a phono stage and line buffer for my CD player feeding the passive.

[Sovereign]

Well a quick update on mine... I found it very loud when running directly to my NVA monoblocks. Mr Jollyfix of this parish was kind enough to send me some Rothwell attenuators and a kimber attenuated cable to try.



I have also tried a Croft pre with a NVA TSS that combination is probably one of the best forms of amplification I have tried to date.

[OD1]

Hi Shaun,
I see you are using SS power amps with the Croft. Did Glenn have to configure your Basic to suit (i.e the ECC81 replacing the usual ECC83 line stage valve) ?

I ask this because when I purchased my 25 pre, I told Glenn that I wanted to use an Exposure 2010S2 power amp with it, and he replied that the low resistance & high sensitivity of the Expo required some mods to the pre.

He built my pre with "zero gain" & fitted an ECC82 (5814WA) in the line stage configured as a "cathode follower" (no idea what this means :scratch:).

This resulted in a good volume range (roughly 3 o'clock for cd's, and 4 for Vinyl when the neighbours are in, to 6 & 7 when i'm in party mode :eyebrows:)

I have recently replaced the Expo with an unmodified Croft S7 & am pleased to say that the gain is still fine without having to send my 25 back to be "un modded", so no need for valve type swapping.

The valves I use in my 25 are nos mullards ECC83's in the phono stage, and a reissue Gold Lion ECC82 in the line stage.
Oliver

[Haselsh1]

Oliver there have been no internal mods to my Micro Basic at all and it works fine with the Rotel monoblocks but the volume controls are only set at between five past and ten past. This may be an issue for some but not for me as there is still enough movement to control the volume. OK, it takes only tiny movements to make a big difference but once set I just leave it alone and all is well. I am taking a risk with ECC83's everywhere as currently the line stage has an ECC81 in it but I shall soon see.

[Haselsh1]

Just as a matter of interest and information; I contacted Glenn Croft via email and asked his advice on this matter and he recommended ECC83'2 in the phono stage and almost anything in the line stage including a 5751 depending on taste but as I have already tried an ECC82 in the line stage and it really made no significant difference to the overall volume, I thought I would stick with ECC83's. That is my reason for ordering the Genelec's.

[Jimbo]

Just as a matter of interest and information; I contacted Glenn Croft via email and asked his advice on this matter and he recommended ECC83'2 in the phono stage and almost anything in the line stage including a 5751 depending on taste but as I have already tried an ECC82 in the line stage and it really made no significant difference to the overall volume, I thought I would stick with ECC83's. That is my reason for ordering the Genelec's.

Yep I would stick with ECC83's in phono stage as it needs the amplification factor the ECC83 gives you. Attenuation of gain can be had through ECC82 or 5751 in line stage - I would suggest JAN GE 5751 from Watford valves - very good indeed. I actually use this in the input stage of my Croft Series 7 powder amp to lower the gain. it can be driven hard without distortion and gives a nice clear detailed presentation.

[Haselsh1]

Hello again James. I have been using a JAN GE ECC81 in the line stage and I really don't like it. The sound is very shrill and steely edged but has a good toe tapping ability. I have used Gold Lion gold pinned ECC83's in the past and found them absolutely amazing but then they should be at thirty two quid a piece. I have just ordered three of them from Hotrox and I'm really looking forward to trying them out in this amp.

[OD1]

Hi Shaun,

I hope you like the Genalex tubes, I was pleasantly surprised with the SQ of my GL ECC82, especially in the mid range, it just seemed to gell in the Croft.

Tube rolling is a lot of fun, especially when you find a tube that works for you, but can be confusing as well !

Something strange happened when I 1st rolled the phono tubes in my 25, I had a pair of TJ FM ECC83's that I had been using in my Icon Audio PS2 (where they performed well), the amp lost dynamics & gain compared to the stock JJ's, so took them out and purchased the nos mullards I now use.

After changing the power amp I tried the TJ's again & they now sounded fine :scratch:, I mentioned this to my dealer (Adrian at Audioflair) and he was as baffled as I was.

I now have one of the TJ's in my S7 (while I await delivery of a Jan GE 5751 :)) and it sounds fine in there as well.

So expect the unexpected when tube rolling :mental:

Oliver

[The Barbarian]

I don't have a great experience in Tubes as ive always used original Mullards in the amps ive had, however id did use some NOS 1960's Telefunken for a while which did sound good to me.

[Haselsh1]

So, I bought, received and fitted the Genelec Gold Lion gold pinned ECC83’s and so far have spent a few hours listening to the new sound. In spite of what I thought about using ECC83’s, the sound is nowhere near as loud as I had worried it might be but it certainly is a long way from where it used to be.

The stereo imaging is now massive on vinyl; in fact no, it is truly cavernous. Using Dire Straits debut album things have opened up way beyond the boundaries of the speaker cabinets using KEF’s Uni-Q driver. The bass is so low now using Quantic’s debut album that I wonder where it is all coming from. Vocals are superb but the treble has so much ‘air’ and ‘sparkle’ now that this system is a joy to listen to. I used to think that the OM40 cartridge was dull and flat, clearly not as this preamp is now proving.

So here we are again, £110 for three valves including next day and the system is transformed. There are no negatives at all that I can immediately think of. This sound system now has a snappy, clean brightness to it that adds tons to its foot tapping ability. The low third oscillator synth on the Quantic stuff is moving shedloads of air and Dire Straits are just amazing and all over the room.

Glenn Croft recommended the use of ECC83’s when I contacted him and for that I thank him.

[Jimbo]

So, I bought, received and fitted the Genelec Gold Lion gold pinned ECC83’s and so far have spent a few hours listening to the new sound. In spite of what I thought about using ECC83’s, the sound is nowhere near as loud as I had worried it might be but it certainly is a long way from where it used to be.

The stereo imaging is now massive on vinyl; in fact no, it is truly cavernous. Using Dire Straits debut album things have opened up way beyond the boundaries of the speaker cabinets using KEF’s Uni-Q driver. The bass is so low now using Quantic’s debut album that I wonder where it is all coming from. Vocals are superb but the treble has so much ‘air’ and ‘sparkle’ now that this system is a joy to listen to. I used to think that the OM40 cartridge was dull and flat, clearly not as this preamp is now proving.

So here we are again, £110 for three valves including next day and the system is transformed. There are no negatives at all that I can immediately think of. This sound system now has a snappy, clean brightness to it that adds tons to its foot tapping ability. The low third oscillator synth on the Quantic stuff is moving shedloads of air and Dire Straits are just amazing and all over the room.

Glenn Croft recommended the use of ECC83’s when I contacted him and for that I thank him.


Hey Shaun where did you get those Genelec valves from as I would like to try one in my Croft S7 power amp.

Glad they worked out for you - I had the same big improvement in my pre when I fitted all Tesla NOS ECC83's.

They transform a good amp into a great amp!

[DSJR]

You're still talking the 25 BASIC? I really don't mean to spoil the fun but please try to get a comparison with the full Micro 25 if you can. The better power supplies really do make a fundamental difference and don't act as a 'tone control.'

[Haselsh1]

Hey Shaun where did you get those Genelec valves from as I would like to try one in my Croft S7 power amp.

Glad they worked out for you - I had the same big improvement in my pre when I fitted all Tesla NOS ECC83's.

They transform a good amp into a great amp!

James, the Genelec valves came from Hotrox UK

http://www.hotroxuk.com/12ax7-ecc83-genalex-gold-lion.html

For the second time they remain the best valves I have tried.

[Haselsh1]

You're still talking the 25 BASIC? I really don't mean to spoil the fun but please try to get a comparison with the full Micro 25 if you can. The better power supplies really do make a fundamental difference and don't act as a 'tone control.'

David, I agree with you, it is indeed still a Micro 25 Basic but looking at internal photo's of the Basic compared to the standard 25 there is minimal difference apart from a few bespoke resistors and capacitors. Now if we were talking about the 'R' version I would agree that it certainly has a massive power supply in comparison.