View Full Version : Pi music - storage and access
Just to move the Pi storage discussion as requested ....
Any suggestions, warnings and advice on RAID use that would make a Pi system safe and economical
Keep it simple
Store your music on two disks. The main and a copy.
Keep the copy in another location.
No need for RAID
RAID gives a false sense of security. It only helps if you have disk failure.
Your RAID controller may break rendering everything useless.
If you have burglary, fire or electrical problems, RAID does not help.
External disks are cheap, fast (USB 3) and you can get them anywhere.
Ali Tait
25-03-2015, 10:02
An easy solution for me, not being an IT expert, was to use a Drobo. Good thing with this is it automatically backs up files between the hard drives installed in it. Does this all by itself, no input needed from the user, other than to monitor how much capacity is being used. Drives can be hot swapped with no loss of data, though it can take a while for the new HD to be intergrated, depending on how much data is stored. Mine has been on 24/7 for the past three or four years with no issues. I recently swapped the four original 500GB drives for 3tb WD reds.
I still use separate USB drives as a back up though..
I would second Neal's post - RAID is not a backup system.
I will even go as far to say you maybe better off with a single high reliability drive for your music store and perform regular incremental backups to a second and third drive...like I do
If you were thinking of using a typical two disk NAS in RAID1, do you really need real time sync of data for a collection of audio files which is probably pretty static in nature? If you accidentally delete something from your disk, it's gone from the mirror too. Neals' suggested strategy is the one I've adopted.
I already use umpteen HDDs as backup and have a twin drive Mac - SSD for the OS and 'daily' files and an HDD for initial backup.
From what I understand from Marcos' thread on the Pi the real benefit is using a NAS array is so your songs are readily accessible throughout the house. As I understand it the NAS takes the form of a twin drive RAID where you can dump all your tunes (and more) - the only drawback being that this would require backup unless the raid is 'self healing' which is not the case according to Neal's points. So the issue for me is that not only would I need a networkable RAID (i.e. not USB) but also a second drive set for backup of equal size.
This makes the whole 'cheap as chips' philosophy of the Pi pretty much redundant - it wouldn't really add any real benefits above what I already have but would simply cost a fair smack.
Or am I missing something?
I already use umpteen HDDs as backup and have a twin drive Mac - SSD for the OS and 'daily' files and an HDD for initial backup.
From what I understand from Marcos' thread on the Pi the real benefit is using a NAS array is so your songs are readily accessible throughout the house. As I understand it the NAS takes the form of a twin drive RAID where you can dump all your tunes (and more) - the only drawback being that this would require backup unless the raid is 'self healing' which is not the case according to Neal's points. So the issue for me is that not only would I need a networkable RAID (i.e. not USB) but also a second drive set for backup of equal size.
This makes the whole 'cheap as chips' philosophy of the Pi pretty much redundant - it wouldn't really add any real benefits above what I already have but would simply cost a fair smack.
Or am I missing something?
Nope - NAS does not mean nor even imply RAID. It means "Network Attached Storage" a single disk drive would certainly qualify as NAS, yet would rule out RAID. As people have said before in this thread KISS.
OK ... I think what's confusing things is that the terms seemed to be used interchangeably from the outset and links were put up to twin drive NAS arrays (for example) with the inference that the second drive provides a safe backup - which has now been kicked into touch.
Equally the discussion has moved to USB drives which for me would be pointless - my router only has ethernet or wifi so would mean I would need to connect a USB drive to a networked computer in the house and leave it on. It would be quicker just toting a USB drive to the shed when i want some sounds....
I already use umpteen HDDs as backup and have a twin drive Mac - SSD for the OS and 'daily' files and an HDD for initial backup.
From what I understand from Marcos' thread on the Pi the real benefit is using a NAS array is so your songs are readily accessible throughout the house. As I understand it the NAS takes the form of a twin drive RAID where you can dump all your tunes (and more) - the only drawback being that this would require backup unless the raid is 'self healing' which is not the case according to Neal's points. So the issue for me is that not only would I need a networkable RAID (i.e. not USB) but also a second drive set for backup of equal size.
This makes the whole 'cheap as chips' philosophy of the Pi pretty much redundant - it wouldn't really add any real benefits above what I already have but would simply cost a fair smack.
Or am I missing something?
You are missing that you dont even need a HD to run a Pi. You can just stick a USB stick into it with your songs if you want to use it as a music repository.
An easy solution for me, not being an IT expert, was to use a Drobo.
Which one?
I went on the Drobo website and it suggested a Drobo 5N to meet my needs - costs about £390 on ebuyer :lol:
http://www.drobo.com/resource-center/which-drobo-is-right/
You are missing that you dont even need a HD to run a Pi. You can just stick a USB stick into it with your songs if you want to use it as a music repository.
I already figured that - but wouldn't need a Pi for that situation either .....
Ali Tait
25-03-2015, 11:53
Which one?
I went on the Drobo website and it suggested a Drobo 5N to meet my needs - costs about £390 on ebuyer :lol:
http://www.drobo.com/resource-center/which-drobo-is-right/
Whichever you have the budget for I guess, they all do the same job.
Lots available secondhand on ebay-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Drobo-FS-DRDS2-A-5-x-Drives-1-8TB-1-63TB-actual-/111627074443?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item19fd7dfb8b
I already figured that - but wouldn't need a Pi for that situation either .....
that wasn't clear from your question. whatever :)
+100
Raid is not necessary and only over complicates things.
A bit of discipline in manual backing up to a 2nd drive and that's all you need. :)
I use external USB drives for backup, only plugged in to add new music.
Keep it simple
Store your music on two disks. The main and a copy.
Keep the copy in another location.
No need for RAID
RAID gives a false sense of security. It only helps if you have disk failure.
Your RAID controller may break rendering everything useless.
If you have burglary, fire or electrical problems, RAID does not help.
External disks are cheap, fast (USB 3) and you can get them anywhere.
I just don't understand the logic ???
Manually swapping USB HD's around, copying files manually is, for me at least much more complicated and fault prone. External USB chassis are often crap and not built to last. They usually sit next to the computer, so burglary, fire will also render them useless. At least a NAS can be put somewhere in the cellar, providing it can be connected to your router from there...
A NAS in your network is the most elegant and simple solution...A NAS is made for.... BACKUPS !! amongst other things. The hardware is built for that purpose. The OS is built for that purpose... it runs cool and fail safe and uses only small amounts of energy... what makes a NAS less valid than a couple of external USB HD's ??? It even works with Time Machine and other PC based backup software !! automatically !
Why do most companies rely on a NAS / Server to secure their data ? They wouldn't if it was not safe. Some here would consider to spend hundreds of $ on a USB cable but wouldn't consider a proper backup solution for their data or for that matter a proper router and network infrastructure.
But you have to have a Backup of your NAS !!! that is just normal. is that what is putting everyone off ?
I give up. last post, promised.
:scratch:
It is correct in saying RAID isn't strictly a backup, but more accurately it's "redundancy" - the RAID acronym stands for "Redundant Array of Independant Disks". RAID takes many forms - RAID 0, RAID1 in "home" nas boxes and then onto RAID5, RAID6, RAID10, RAID50 in high-end IT kit and so on.
In a bit more detail - basically it's dependant on how many disks you have firstly then how many disks you can comfortably have fail whilst keeping the data volume alive.
I work in IT so am very familiar with RAID in high-end servers which employ 5+ disks and how that can save your bacon! (many times!)
Most small home NAS units with 2 or more disks generally can support a couple of RAID configurations - RAID0 (2+disks), RAID1 (2+disks), RAID5 (needs 3+ disks).
eg
2 x 2TB disks in RAID0 configuration = 4TB or all of the useable space but with no redundancy - 1 disk fails and you've lost the lot
2 x 2TB disks in RAID1 configuration (sometimes called disk mirror) = only 2TB of useable space but can survive one of the two disks failing whilst preserving the volume and the data
But from an enthusiasts point of view - i have a Synology DS213+ unit with all my digital media on it which has 2 x 4TB disks linked together in a 4TB RAID1 volume. Basically meaning I can have one disk fail and the data is still preserved. gives time to replace the failed disk to get me back to normal.
I then back that up to an external cheap 4TB usb3.0 disk and keep that somewhere else (not home)
Ultimately it boils down to budget, how confident you are using the kit, how much management you want to do and ultimately how important the data is to you:-
Ultra cheap - buy 1 4TB usb3.0 disk and keep everything on that. When it fails, you loose the lot.
Cheap - buy 2 4TB usb disks but manually manage the file copies to both disks yourself. If one fails you've got the other identical copy to fall back on
Middle - buy a 2-disk NAS box (eg drobo/synology) with 2 x 4TB disks in RAID1 configuration - the box looks after the copy between disks itself (and it's on the home network). Loose one disk and the data is still there. (it is one box though, so burgalry/fire/being knocked off the desk, you still loose the lot)
Quite Expensive - buy a 2-disk NAS with 2x 4TB disks in a RAID1 config + backup to external usb3.0 disk and keep that disk off-site.
Expensive - buy a 5-disk NAS with dual power supplies, dual network, multiple drive failure support etc .....
and it goes on.....
Chris.
Some here would consider to spend hundreds of $ on a USB cable
Count me in with the skinflints - I begrudge even a tenner for a USB cable - unfortunately my local Pound shop is out of stock :lol:
My only interest is trying to get my head around the actual cost of the whole setup as set out in Marco's Pi thread - including the NAS box and cost of backing it up
No problem shelling out £80 for a Pi+DAC card + casing but possibly not the networked storage/router angle (which might negate some of the excellence Marco is hearing)
I have never felt the need for a NAS per se and am not yet convinced that it's in any way an economical alternative to other forms of storage in a 'bang for buck' test.
It's definitely easy enough to use an external hard drive for a real backup. Having said this, assuming that a 1TB external hard drive is around £50, you could opt for cloud storage / backup, as an example Dropbox does a 1TB plan for £7.99 a month.
I just don't understand the logic ???
Manually swapping USB HD's around, copying files manually is, for me at least much more complicated and fault prone. External USB chassis are often crap and not built to last. They usually sit next to the computer, so burglary, fire will also render them useless. At least a NAS can be put somewhere in the cellar, providing it can be connected to your router from there...
A NAS in your network is the most elegant and simple solution...A NAS is made for.... BACKUPS !! amongst other things. The hardware is built for that purpose. The OS is built for that purpose... it runs cool and fail safe and uses only small amounts of energy... what makes a NAS less valid than a couple of external USB HD's ??? It even works with Time Machine and other PC based backup software !! automatically !
Why do most companies rely on a NAS / Server to secure their data ? They wouldn't if it was not safe. Some here would consider to spend hundreds of $ on a USB cable but wouldn't consider a proper backup solution for their data or for that matter a proper router and network infrastructure.
But you have to have a Backup of your NAS !!! that is just normal. is that what is putting everyone off ?
I give up. last post, promised.
:scratch:
Where was it said don't use a NAS? They're designed for network storage and have a bunch of inbuilt apps like Backup etc as you say. I use an NSA320S, works great for me. Out of it I run squeezecenter, an SSH proxy for web browsing when I'm away from home and TimeMachine for my Mac Mini Backups, it can do loads more.
some usb drives come with.backup software or you can just copy it regularly to another drive every month direct music file to music file. if you copy over it will ask you if you wish to ignore files that are the same. this cuts down the time for back up considerably. also windows still has a full system clone facility that you can use....its hidden in win 7 and hidden even better in win 8 but it is there.
Lots of F.U.D. going on here...:rolleyes:
Keep it simple chaps!
Have two copies of your music: one for playing to your device, the other to restore the music onto a new hard drive should it fail.
Put the backup on a USB drive, store it away from the computer.
or...
Put the backup on an Esata external drive, store away from the computer.
or...
Put the backup on a second internal hard drive, take it out or keep it in the machine.
or...
Raid is redundancy, you want that...have TWO external backups of your music and store one at someone elses house/bank vault/in a lead lined box, depending on what your OCD levels are!
Drobo is a good option too.
I prefer manual backups though.
I use an NSA320S, works great for me.
That's more like it :)
£50 from Ebuyer ... plus the cost of drives to bung in it (in my case I already have a few kicking about to get going)
Cheers for that !
Chris, what you say is true but RAID1 doesn't account for user error or file/file system corruption, it may help with total drive failure by keeping the data accessible but for home use there little inconvenience in waiting a bit to buy a replacement drive and copying your file over from the backup.
That's more like it :)
£50 from Ebuyer ... plus the cost of drives to bung in it (in my case I already have a few kicking about to get going)
Cheers for that !
http://theartofsound.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.png
£50! Flippin'eck they have come down in price! :D
Next question, what drives to buy ;) :popcorn: :D
Lots of F.U.D. going on here...:rolleyes:
Keep it simple chaps!
Have two copies of your music: one for playing to your device, the other to restore the music onto a new hard drive should it fail.
Put the backup on a USB drive, store it away from the computer.
Put the backup on an Esata external drive, store away from the computer.
Put the backup on a second internal hard drive, take it out or keep it in the machine.
Raid is redundancy, you want that...have TWO external backups of your music and store one at someone elses house/bank vault/in a lead lined box, depending on what your OCD levels are!
Drobo is a good option too.
I prefer manual backups though.
If that is simple, then what is complicated :lol:
...its not complicated :)
It is correct in saying RAID isn't strictly a backup, but more accurately it's "redundancy" - the RAID acronym stands for "Redundant Array of Independant Disks". RAID takes many forms - RAID 0, RAID1 in "home" nas boxes and then onto RAID5, RAID6, RAID10, RAID50 in high-end IT kit and so on.
In a bit more detail - basically it's dependant on how many disks you have firstly then how many disks you can comfortably have fail whilst keeping the data volume alive.
I work in IT so am very familiar with RAID in high-end servers which employ 5+ disks and how that can save your bacon! (many times!)
Most small home NAS units with 2 or more disks generally can support a couple of RAID configurations - RAID0 (2+disks), RAID1 (2+disks), RAID5 (needs 3+ disks).
eg
2 x 2TB disks in RAID0 configuration = 4TB or all of the useable space but with no redundancy - 1 disk fails and you've lost the lot
2 x 2TB disks in RAID1 configuration (sometimes called disk mirror) = only 2TB of useable space but can survive one of the two disks failing whilst preserving the volume and the data
But from an enthusiasts point of view - i have a Synology DS213+ unit with all my digital media on it which has 2 x 4TB disks linked together in a 4TB RAID1 volume. Basically meaning I can have one disk fail and the data is still preserved. gives time to replace the failed disk to get me back to normal.
I then back that up to an external cheap 4TB usb3.0 disk and keep that somewhere else (not home)
Ultimately it boils down to budget, how confident you are using the kit, how much management you want to do and ultimately how important the data is to you:-
Ultra cheap - buy 1 4TB usb3.0 disk and keep everything on that. When it fails, you loose the lot.
Cheap - buy 2 4TB usb disks but manually manage the file copies to both disks yourself. If one fails you've got the other identical copy to fall back on
Middle - buy a 2-disk NAS box (eg drobo/synology) with 2 x 4TB disks in RAID1 configuration - the box looks after the copy between disks itself (and it's on the home network). Loose one disk and the data is still there. (it is one box though, so burgalry/fire/being knocked off the desk, you still loose the lot)
Quite Expensive - buy a 2-disk NAS with 2x 4TB disks in a RAID1 config + backup to external usb3.0 disk and keep that disk off-site.
Expensive - buy a 5-disk NAS with dual power supplies, dual network, multiple drive failure support etc .....
and it goes on.....
Chris.
thank's for that...
btw. The new Synology OS supports a minimum of 2 drives of redundant storage. It's called hybrid RAID... Add the error correction, early failure warning system, specialised OS and hardware and your average USB backup drive will look like a very bad place to put your data, even if you are using two of them. Now is that considered FUD ? I don't think so. It has saved me so many times, I would happily pay an extra 100£ for a good Server, NAS, called it what you will then have to manually manage a pair of lousy USB enclosures, even if they had good disks in them, Not talking about the Drobo which is about the same as the Syno, only directly attached to a computer.
Anyone serious about their data should at least opt for solution #3 (redundancy can be achieved with only 2 drives. Smaller drives like 2T would bring the price down quite a bit). That is of course if you consider your data worth the extra layout.
...its not complicated :)
ok :)
I have been in the computer consulting/programming business for more than 30 years.
Operating systems come and go. Today's big thing is forgotten in a couple of years.
Ok, buy a RAID / NAS system. Let it run for 5 years. Three things will go wrong.
a) Hard-disks will change. You cannot buy new disks to your old RAID/NAS. New ones just won't fit in the box.
b) Your RAID/NAS is going to have an outdated operating system. No one can help you when you get desperate.
c) The power unit for the box will break. Unfortunately is has a special plug that is not available anywhere.
Much easier to keep buying external USB disks. Get larger ones as time goes by.
I have been in the computer consulting/programming business for more than 30 years.
Operating systems come and go. Today's big thing is forgotten in a couple of years.
Ok, buy a RAID / NAS system. Let it run for 5 years. Three things will go wrong.
a) Hard-disks will change. You cannot buy new disks to your old RAID/NAS. New ones just won't fit in the box.
b) Your RAID/NAS is going to have an outdated operating system. No one can help you when you get desperate.
c) The power unit for the box will break. Unfortunately is has a special plug that is not available anywhere.
Much easier to keep buying external USB disks. Get larger ones as time goes by.
That is a strange way of looking at things. Actually, this is more like a joke !
a) not true. Are you still using 40mb IBM / Nixdorf disks ?
b) not true. The OS is updated permanently (security, bug fixes, new features)
c) not true. Please document your claims.
1427414275
That is a strange way of looking at things. Actually, this is more like a joke !
a) not true. Are you still using 40mb Nixdorf disks ?
b) not true. The OS is updated at least 4 x / year if not more.
c) not true. Please document your claims.
a) Have you seen the new SSD disks? They are totally different. This is the future.
Also, many RAID boxes require three disks of similar size. These might not be available later.
How about SCSI??
b) Common knowledge. For example, try to update a 5 year old WiFi router. No new versions available.
c) Take Apple "Mag-safe" that is now abandoned. It will be gone soon.
This discussion seems to be wandering off to the pros and cons of various backup forms.
Getting back to the Pi and accessing stored music for a minute - aside from a dedicated NAS has anyone recommendations for forms of storage easily accessible to the Pi.
USB sticks have been mooted as has Wifi dongle to get on the net.
Does it have enough beef in the USB ports to drive a standalone SSD or HDD without additional power supply?
This discussion seems to be wandering off to the pros and cons of various backup forms.
Getting back to the Pi and accessing stored music for a minute - aside from a dedicated NAS has anyone recommendations for forms of storage easily accessible to the Pi.
USB sticks have been mooted as has Wifi dongle to get on the net.
Does it have enough beef in the USB ports to drive a standalone SSD or HDD without additional power supply?
It may have Mike, I think that is why a 2amp PSU is specified, to be able to supply the USB power requirements, it would be good if somebody with experience could advise...
a) Have you seen the new SSD disks? They are totally different. This is the future.
Also, many RAID boxes require three disks of similar size. These might not be available later.
How about SCSI??
b) Common knowledge. For example, try to update a 5 year old WiFi router. No new versions available.
c) Take Apple "Mag-safe" that is now abandoned. It will be gone soon.
I can't let this stand, sorry for the thread drift..
What do you mean about "many" RAID boxes ?
SCSI was crap and I glad its gone
The router argument is laughable, sorry.
Apple makes a lot of non-standard stuff, we're talking about a simple 4mm connector which is as standard as the venerable RJ45 connector.
Ive deleted those last 3 posts. dont want this turning into a fight ...
....No more of this please. opinions only, not opinions as facts please.
This discussion seems to be wandering off to the pros and cons of various backup forms.
Getting back to the Pi and accessing stored music for a minute - aside from a dedicated NAS has anyone recommendations for forms of storage easily accessible to the Pi.
USB sticks have been mooted as has Wifi dongle to get on the net.
Does it have enough beef in the USB ports to drive a standalone SSD or HDD without additional power supply?
the OP's title was / is
Digital storage - RAID or what? (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?37577-Digital-storage-RAID-or-what)
so not too far off discussing things like NAS's, Drobos, USB disks, RAID's and some really abstract views.
Audio Advent
25-03-2015, 16:30
I agree with Juha to be honest but the solution is to choose your hardware more carefully and it's the same with ANY computer tech - becomes outdated in a few years and even when it's working fine, the human is constantly bombarded with pressure to buy the latest thing and so it's made redundant even before it has stopped working.
I've a PATA NAS box which is now virtually redundant, I've an old SATA NAS box which has a drive size limit due to the controller chips used - 500Gb drives are the max I think - which is fine for now but for how long can I get < 500Gb drives without paying over the odds? Is ok, I didn't pay for either box. How long will SATA be around for?
I don't think these are really issues which should prevent someone from buying stuff for use today but certainly something you have to think about if the only music you have is file based as surely people want to keep this music for the rest of their lives, for decades and decades?
Audio Advent
25-03-2015, 16:36
If the issue is having to use ethernet storage because of the way the Pi software works, then there are definately simple external hard-drive enclosures which have ethernet and USB. IoCELL is one such company which does them, although it's possible this box I have came with a drive in it - I got just the empty enclosure and put my own drive in it. Also uses a simple standard 12V power supply which anyone could knock up.
For the Pi's software, does the drive have to have some particular standard compatability (can't remember the acronym, begins with a U) for it to read the music files?
Audio Advent
25-03-2015, 16:38
Equally the discussion has moved to USB drives which for me would be pointless - my router only has ethernet or wifi so would mean I would need to connect a USB drive to a networked computer in the house and leave it on. It would be quicker just toting a USB drive to the shed when i want some sounds....
Are you sure? All the routers I've been supplied in the last 5 years or so have had USB sockets on the back to plug in USB hard-drives which then can be accessed by any device on the network (as set up within the router). Even if not, just like USB printer server adapters you plug into the network, you can buy cheap boxes which allow you to plug a USB drive in one end and a network cable into the other.
I think that if you want to keep it simple, you just have a single drive with the music you want accessed around the house on it and attach that to the network any old how. Get that music copied onto that drive from wherever you normally keep your music files. You can back up that drive as and when you want by removing it and copying it to another on your normal computer, as you should be doing for all your data anyway! The point is that backing up your music is no different to the computer back-ups you should be doing anyway, backing up digital photos, emails, work etc etc. If you're not doing that anyway, then this isn't an FBA music issue, it's a general digitial home-life issue.
the OP's title was / is
Digital storage - RAID or what? (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?37577-Digital-storage-RAID-or-what)
as OP that's my bad :(
I set up this thread to move the discussion about storage away from Marco's Pi thread where is was becoming a distraction
- perhaps a Moderator could change the title to 'Pi music - storage and access' :)
Are you sure? All the routers I've been supplied in the last 5 years or so have had USB sockets on the back to plug in USB hard-drives which then can be accessed by any device on the network (as set up within the router).
most of the newer ones have this facility now i believe. i am hoping my new one will. i might start a thread as to the best modem router for fibre soon as the one plusnet will give me is probably crap. but yes the usb on the new routers will open up pi streaming on the cheap using a small drive sitting beside it rather than attached to the pc or pi.
Are you sure? All the routers I've been supplied in the last 5 years or so have had USB sockets on the back
Yep - have checked and double checked, not mentioned in the specs either:
http://help.virginmedia.com/system/selfservice.controller?CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE&ARTICLE_ID=3859&CURRENT_CMD=SEARCH&CONFIGURATION=1001&PARTITION_ID=1&USERTYPE=1&LANGUAGE=en&COUNTY=us&VM_CUSTOMER_TYPE=Cable
I can set it up as modem only though ... but that would mean buying a new router
Audio Advent
25-03-2015, 17:09
Oh yeah - people say it has been de-activated on that router, something to do with it taking up too much processing power for the router.
As I see it you only need to have the storage on the network in order to be able to access the files from around the house. This is exactly the same if you want to access digital photos from around the house or anything else.
For me, the Pi system is all about accessing all your music without having to find the CD or have all the CDs to hand - i.e. all your music in one place. And Marco says it sounds great too, as good as his turntable and CD player. You can do that by simply plugging a USB hard-drive into the Pi itself (check if you need a USB drive with it's own power supply or if it can power off the Pi's USB socket).
The around-the-house thing is separate and isn't really anything to do with the Pi, just a general data-around-the house thing which the Pi can then also use as can any other computer. As I say, there are adapters for turning USB drives into NAS drives and also wireless dongles that do the same thing, giving any old USB drive wireless capability. There are also many many single drives with wireless built in too (just a little more expensive).
as OP that's my bad :(
I set up this thread to move the discussion about storage away from Marco's Pi thread where is was becoming a distraction
- perhaps a Moderator could change the title to 'Pi music - storage and access' :)
ok, no probs.. sorry for dragging the thread into the IT domain...
I love my Pi (and my NAS :lol:)
Can anyone recomend a good backup program.
One that does not compress or encrypt the data, so a backup hard drive can be plugged into another machine and read like any other drive without the need for special software to read it, Ideally with two forms of backup:
I). Full back up, everything on that drive.
II). Update back up, copy altered or additional files only, since the previous back up.
Any suggestions?
I fell foul of this and still have backed up data I can not retrieve, eg pictures that won't open because the files are encrypted and not readable without the original software, which I no longer have and is unavailable.
Can anyone recomend a good backup program.
One that does not compress or encrypt the data, so a backup hard drive can be plugged into another machine and read like any other drive without the need for special software to read it, Ideally with two forms of backup:
I). Full back up, everything on that drive.
II). Update back up, copy altered or additional files only, since the previous back up.
Any suggestions?
I fell foul of this and still have backed up data I can not retrieve, eg pictures that won't open because the files are encrypted and not readable without the original software, which I no longer have and is unavailable.
I use Paragon backup and recovery free - using a disk imaging tool means that you have a backup that is an exact duplicate of the source drive without needing any software to access your backups. I also use Acronis Trueimage, which is paid-for, and very powerful. it includes disk to disk imaging as one of it's modes, as well as bare metal restallation of o/s boot drives etc, incremental backups etc.
Alternatively use Microsoft SyncToy to synchronise directories between disks unidirectionally or bidirectionally.
http://www.paragon-software.com/home/br-free/
EZback-it-up is a very simple and easy to use program, I have been using it for years.
http://www.rdcomp.net/ezback-it-up
AlexM - I thought Paragon compressed the data and possibly encrypted it as well.
You need Paragon loaded on the new machine to recover your data, my brother uses it and I'm sure he said that was the case when his hard drive and motherboard fried. He loaded Paragon on a new machine and was up and running in no time with the disk image. The disk image is smaller than the original so must be compressed.
I do not want to put the safety of my data down to a here today gone tommorrow software company. No company is safe these days, I have been predicting the demise of microsoft for several years, no one believed me then, but falling profits are starting to sway opinion. I don't know if the source was acurate but a TV show about 12 months ago claimed Apple was making more profit on one model of the iPhone than the whole of the Microsoft organisation combined. Bill gates does of course own forty odd percent of Apple, so he isnt that concerned, source for this was the same show.
I just want a simple piece if software to replicate what I do manually, dump unaltered files on to a second removable drive.
Kit1cat - will take a look at that one.
I meant using it to copy an image of the partitions and file systems to another drive. The backup drive can be plugged in place of the original drive, so it doesn't require any backup programme to be installed to use. It can also create an image file which is a packed archive, a bit like an .ISO image of a CD, but that is something else.
An image backup can either be done at block level, in which case it will be the same size as the original, or ignore the empty blocks, in which case it will be smaller
http://lime-technology.com/
all the benefits of raid without the drawbacks
. . . I have been predicting the demise of microsoft for several years, no one believed me then, but falling profits are starting to sway opinion. I don't know if the source was acurate but a TV show about 12 months ago claimed Apple was making more profit on one model of the iPhone than the whole of the Microsoft organisation combined. Bill gates does of course own forty odd percent of Apple, so he isnt that concerned, source for this was the same show.
Your thinking is flawed and shows a lack of understanding about the two companies and their core business model. Apple predominantly make designer lifestyle products, Microsoft are predominantly a software company. It's not just all about profit, it's about market share of product and the worlds business industry runs on Microsoft software as well as most of the home market, if you did a little research into both companies your view might change? If Apple start making enterprise business software that made inroads into the business sector, then maybe Microsoft would be under serious threat? But Apple don't and aren't likely too either.
If people stopped buying the iPhone (very unlikely, but a more possible scenario) their profits would plummet as fast as they grew and all they would have to fall back on would be iTunes and a very small computer hardware/software product line. The iTunes business model is not based on rock solid foundations either, many musicians don't like it, as it does virtually nothing to support or nurture current talent or introduce new talent like an A&R department, it's purely an income generator for Apple, but at the moment they are forced to accept it. OS X isn't and never has been a market leader, Windows O/S and it's derivatives is and is likely to remain so for some considerable time. There is a place for both companies, they overlap but their core business models differ.
Have a look at Netmarketshare (http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0), their stats are current up to March 2015
I just want a simple piece if software to replicate what I do manually, dump unaltered files on to a second removable drive
Try Allway Sync (http://allwaysync.com/) or Microsoft SyncToy (https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=15155)
As for the OP - to rely purely on a NAS as a backup system is asking for trouble, Network Attached Storage is not a foolproof backup system and neither is RAID. A SAN (Storage Area Network) might be considered more of a backup system as it has more effective disaster recovery, but even then data is normally backed up to tape for archiving should the SAN itself suffer a catastrophic failure. I have to agree with the 'simple' approaches suggested by Gazjam and Juha or get the best of both world's a simple NAS for convenience and multiple user access, but you will need to have that data backed up and a collection of HDD with duplicated data. I have three complete data sets. My working data set, a local backup and an off-site backup, which is swapped with the local one every few weeks. These are just bare HDD as I can swap them out of my workstation without the need for any USB connections. I also retire hard drives regularly, rather than wait for them to fail.
I use Allway Sync for backups and Acronis True Image for disk imaging as I also keep full disk image backups, should my workstation drives suffer a failure. I just swap them over and I have a working computer again in minutes.
Sorry but I disagree about Microsoft.
I have worked in a fair few blue chip organisations and am aware of what Microsoft do.
I have family in the USA, Microsofts biggest market sector and they like a lot of small businesses owners over there have dropped ALL microsoft products, the rot is setting in.
They don't have the grip over the market they used to and I see this decline continueing to a point where large corporations will jump ship, and it will start in the States.
The majority of Web servers world wide run Linux as their OS due to the ease of remote system admin, I read a figure of 90% banded about in the press which may be true. At present there are a lot of domestic users world wide that do not use Microsoft products, this does have an influence on other markets.
MS have made several attempts to get into the hardware market and it aint working out for them.
Yeh profits can be missleading, Ford made a loss producing cars for decades, their profits being made up from their spare parts buisness, when this dropped off it was their finance business that kept them afloat. A friend who worked at Ford used to joke, that you can see by the condition of the offices where the money was, manufacture was old and almost shabby, finance was the jewel in the crown, no expense spared, budgets and expense accounts to match.
This is all getting away from my point though, that I do not trust third parties with my data, no matter how big the Name, I want the last word on its longevity.
SyncToy is good as is FileSyncroniser for the Mac. You get a one for one copy of your files in a system mountable format. I use a combination of TimeMachine and FileSyncroniser on my Macs, seems to work well enough.....
I guess only time will tell for Microsoft, they do have a lot riding on Windows 10. Interesting times for sure, but technology developments always are. I do however agree about not trusting third parties with long term data storage, I always prefer to be in total control of that and don't have anything stored 'in the cloud'. I just don't want my data out there, nor do I currently need it to be.
Mike (mikmas) are you any closer to where you want to be regarding music storage/access for your Pi? I used to use a NAS, but have reverted back to hard drives. My music server has a 2.5" 2TB HDD with all my music there, but it's a small footprint PC, not a Pi.
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