What Phono Stage upto £600

[high.spirits]

I have just purchased a lovely little Jolida 102 integrated amp and now looking at phono stages (my Arcam A19 one was integrated).

I have a MF VLPS but feel there is more to come from my 2m Black cartridge.

I have looked on the web and there are so many it's difficult to see the wood from the trees:

Rega, MF, Pro-ject, Whest, Heed, Graham Slee, Croft, Edwards Audio, Creek, Furutech, Leema, Clearaudio.

Any feedback and personal experience appreciated. Thanks

[Marco]

Hi Martin,

Nice amp, so congrats! :)

Are you aware of the Firebottle phono stage, designed and built by one of our very own members, Alan? I think you owe it to yourself to listen to one, as it’s a superb piece of kit and offers quite silly sound-per-pound value.

Have a look here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?36603-Firebottle-phono-MM-MC-loan-list

Otherwise, check out something from Croft, as that also ticks the same boxes. I think you should continue along the valve theme, not just because your amp features them, but because, when done right, valves make vinyl sound simply magical!!

Hope this helps :cool:

Marco.

[CageyH]

If you joined the Graham Slee forum, you could also benefit from the home loan scheme.
It is ideal as it lets you listen in the comfort of your own home enabling you to make your mind up about which stage you prefer before commiting to a purchase.

[struth]

yes +1 on the firebottle. also will fling in the Schiit Mani as a cheap alternative. it is way better than price if you prefer solid state and to me was better than the significantly more expensive Whest.

[high.spirits]

Thanks guys, some good points. The Jolida is a cracking amp and sounds just lovely.

I tried the firebottle some time back and to my ears the sound stage was not as wide and airy as the Arcam A19 built in phono stage (in reviews the A19 phono amp got high praise back when i first bought it). I have seen glowing feedback on the firebottle in more recent times, so a possibility.

Not heard of the Schitt Mani, so i will follow up there.

I like the idea of the Graham Slee home loan idea. I have tried so many speakers in the past and when got them home for a demo they did not work in my room. So home demo is key, as is a longer listen to really judge the kit. Cheers Martin

[struth]

http://www.electromod.co.uk/schiit-audio/

[paskinn]

In your chosen price range, the Croft RIAA has to be the one to beat. Glen Croft has been making superb phonostages for twenty years or more. I find them capable of taking on stuff which costs multiples of the £500 for the Croft. It's a true UK classic, I'm sure some kind dealer would let you try one. The 'classic' bits of kit, with long histories, keep selling for a reason.

[Anthony K]

The Lehman Black cube SE is also very nice and priced well

[high.spirits]

Thanks all. Will start my 'follow up' research today.

[khapahk]

In your chosen price range, the Croft RIAA has to be the one to beat. Glen Croft has been making superb phonostages for twenty years or more. I find them capable of taking on stuff which costs multiples of the £500 for the Croft. It's a true UK classic, I'm sure some kind dealer would let you try one. The 'classic' bits of kit, with long histories, keep selling for a reason.

Deco Audio in Aylesbury stocks Croft and should be able to help out. I've recently bought a Croft RIAA from him myself and am really pleased with it.


k

[Jimbo]

Thanks all. Will start my 'follow up' research today.

Hi Martin,

I see you are in Milton Keynes - you could try Adrian Parsons at
http://www.audioflair.co.uk/

Hi is a Main Croft dealer and is extremely helpful and is situated at the bottom of the M1

[walpurgis]

I use one of these. It's amazing for the money.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Graham-Slee-Reflex-M-Moving-Magnet-MM-Phono-Stage-/291109075188?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43c773f8f4

If that's a bit too dear, this is just as musical.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Graham-Slee-Era-Gold-V-MM-MC-Phono-Stage-PSU1-Power-Supply-/391035694493?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5b0b8b2d9d


Check out the reviews online. They are excellent bits of kit.

[The Black Adder]

Hi Martin,

I see you are in Milton Keynes - you could try Adrian Parsons at
http://www.audioflair.co.uk/

Hi is a Main Croft dealer and is extremely helpful and is situated at the bottom of the M1


+1 - Adrian is a lovely chap! :)

[twotone]

+1 - Adrian is a lovely chap! :)

Yip, bought a Croft pre from him and he couldn't do enough for me.

Great guy.

[hifi_dave]

There is a Croft 'main' dealer quite close to Milton Keynes.

[southall-1998]

Perhaps check out the NVA Phono 2.

S.

[high.spirits]

Hi Martin,

I see you are in Milton Keynes - you could try Adrian Parsons at
http://www.audioflair.co.uk/

Hi is a Main Croft dealer and is extremely helpful and is situated at the bottom of the M1



+1 - Adrian is a lovely chap!

Thanks for the pointer chaps. Deco at Aylesbury suggested by Bob is a lot closer so will start there for Croft and see if I can get a Graham Slee loan for comparison..

cheers
Martin

[high.spirits]

Originally Posted by paskinn View Post
In your chosen price range, the Croft RIAA has to be the one to beat. Glen Croft has been making superb phonostages for twenty years or more. I find them capable of taking on stuff which costs multiples of the £500 for the Croft. It's a true UK classic, I'm sure some kind dealer would let you try one. The 'classic' bits of kit, with long histories, keep selling for a reason.

Deco Audio in Aylesbury stocks Croft and should be able to help out. I've recently bought a Croft RIAA from him myself and am really pleased with it.

Hi Bob

Still not decided on speakers in my little room - going to convert the garage now to get more space and less bass bloom....

Interesting you have the Croft RIAA. I am trying to get a loan Graham Slee so would be an interesting comparison as you are not far away?

Thanks
Martin

[high.spirits]

Perhaps check out the NVA Phono 2.

S.

Thanks Shane.

[high.spirits]

I use one of these. It's amazing for the money.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Graham-Slee-Reflex-M-Moving-Magnet-MM-Phono-Stage-/291109075188?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43c773f8f4

If that's a bit too dear, this is just as musical.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Graham-Slee-Era-Gold-V-MM-MC-Phono-Stage-PSU1-Power-Supply-/391035694493?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5b0b8b2d9d


Check out the reviews online. They are excellent bits of kit.

Hi Geoff
Just joined their forum and loan scheme so should be able to hear for myself soon....

cheers
Martin

[cvision123]

I don't have much experience but I like my iFi iPhono a lot. I think that it's worth a listen.

[khapahk]

Hi Bob

Still not decided on speakers in my little room - going to convert the garage now to get more space and less bass bloom....

Interesting you have the Croft RIAA. I am trying to get a loan Graham Slee so would be an interesting comparison as you are not far away?

Thanks
Martin

Hi, Martin,

More than happy to help out, let me know if you want to arrange something.

Cheers,

[high.spirits]

I don't have much experience but I like my iFi iPhono a lot. I think that it's worth a listen.

Thanks, not come across this make.

[Audio Advent]

I've not heard one of these myself but the AQVOX Phono 2 Ci has had some great reviews and was about £600 when new, about £350 secondhand. Interesting because they have a few different set-up capabilities. A review here:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/aqvox_phono2ci_part1_e.html

[doom2112]

This is a very good phono MM tube amp.
I use it with a SUT but used with a ortofon Black is perfect as well.
Just make sure that you get the latest version.
It´s not out on the homepage yet,it has higher gain 45dB
I i payed 499$ for it and he put the value down to 50$ for customs.
A beautiful amp.

http://parksaudiollc.com/budgiepreamp.html

[high.spirits]

I've not heard one of these myself but the AQVOX Phono 2 Ci has had some great reviews and was about £600 when new, about £350 secondhand. Interesting because they have a few different set-up capabilities. A review here:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/aqvox_phono2ci_part1_e.html

Thanks Sam. There are so many phono stages I've not seen before.
Interesting review - it says it is a shade lighter than the norm so probably not for me. I like the instruments to be full bodied...

[high.spirits]

This is a very good phono MM tube amp.
I use it with a SUT but used with a ortofon Black is perfect as well.
Just make sure that you get the latest version.
It´s not out on the homepage yet,it has higher gain 45dB
I i payed 499$ for it and he put the value down to 50$ for customs.
A beautiful amp.

http://parksaudiollc.com/budgiepreamp.html

Thanks Per.
Looks a lovely amp. I like to home audition before I buy, so may be tricky....

[Ned664]

I don't have much experience but I like my iFi iPhono a lot. I think that it's worth a listen.

+1

[Barry]

I would look at both the Aqvox and the Project Phono. Both of them use balanced line inputs and outputs via XLR connectors, as well unbalanced connections via RCA phono.

[Elephantears]

I would add yet another recommendation for the Croft RIAA R with your 2M Black, and another recommendation for Adrian at AudioFlair - surely one of the nicest and most helpful dealers in the country.

Also within your price bracket is a second hand Eastern Electric Minimax. There is one on the Wam at the moment, and I will probably be selling mine soon. Not because it isn't excellent, and I'm expecting to at least double my investment to get an improvement.

[Thebiglebowski]

Have just bought a Croft RIAA but haven't heard one before so looking forward to that.

The one I keep coming back to is the Whest Two and is a match made in heaven with a ZYX but have never tried it with a MM.

DV P75 mk1 very good
DV P75 mk2 OK preferred the mk1
Whest Two - magical with MC
Trichord Dino mk1 - nice but quite warm
Trichord Dino mk2 - more detail but still quite warm
Sonneteer Sedley - Fantastic with MM and probably the best MM stage I've heard so far - Really bad with MC though, it sounded truly awful with the ZYX R50 - sold the ZYX as I like the sedley with MM so much.

The one that interests me is the new Tron MM as it had a really good review but at £900 is a bit much at the moment.

[walpurgis]

Why no Graham Slee on the list?

[high.spirits]

Yes I will have to try the Croft RIAA back to back with my current set up. Just need a bit of time to arrange it. All the reports and feedback are v. good.

""Why no Graham Slee on the list? "" Yes the Graham Slee was on my original list in post 1.

I have now tried several of the Graham Slee amps back to back with my set up. The top of the range sounds good, however very similar to my current phono stage, so not worth the expenditure.

It maybe that my phono stage is getting everything I want in the current MM setup.

Next stop the Croft RIAA.

[Thebiglebowski]

Why no Graham Slee on the list?

Heard one in someone else's system a few years ago and was not impressed, rightly or wrongly I've avoided them ever since.

Strangely I've also avoided MF and Chord as I don't like the looks of them, very ugly kit and Chord looks like the designer was on acid.

[kcc123]

I did not like the Eva Gold V and Elevator EXP combination when they were both in my residence a few years ago. My Salience LP 2.0 SE simply blew them away and my Croft Super Micro preamp’s built in MM stage was also better in my humble opinion.
As a result, I would recommend the newer Jasmine/ Salience LP 2.5 DU which is under £600 and two turntables can connect to it, a worthwhile bonus.
When I opened the Eva Gold V, I discovered that it was full of air even the whole unit was tiny enough.:D

[walpurgis]

I had an ERA V Gold with an Osawa SUT and it sounded bloody marvelous with my MCs. It is notably superior to the EAR 834P (MC) valve stage for instance. I'm now using a Reflex M which is even more lucid.

I'm not sure what bearing the appearance of the contents of a phono stage has on anything.

[kcc123]

One man’s meat is another man’s poison and I also believe that synergy plays a major role to the overall sound of the system. So when I had the Eva Gold combination at home I used quite a few turntables and cartridges for the listening- a Linn LP 12(Lingo) with Ittok and Dynavector D17 mk3, a Linn LP12 ( Hercules and Mose) with Ittok and AT OC9, a Linn LP12 ( Origin Live DC Motor and power supply) with Rega 250 and AT 33PTG, a Technics SP15 with AT 1100 and Technics 205C mk3, a Denon DP80 with Rega 300 and Denon 103 (an Ortofon MC3000 was also used in another occasion but the Eva gold combo could not give enough drive to the cartridge). Other phono stages used were Salience LP2.0 SE, Tom Evans Micro Groove, FM Acoustic 122, and also my modified Cambridge Audio 640P. The Eva Gold V and EXP combination did not fare really well amount them in the comparison. What annoyed me most was the hum introduced by the Eva Gold combination, no matter where I placed them the hum was there, a disappointment indeed.

[high.spirits]

I did not like the Eva Gold V and Elevator EXP combination when they were both in my residence a few years ago. My Salience LP 2.0 SE simply blew them away and my Croft Super Micro preamp’s built in MM stage was also better in my humble opinion.
As a result, I would recommend the newer Jasmine/ Salience LP 2.5 DU which is under £600 and two turntables can connect to it, a worthwhile bonus.
When I opened the Eva Gold V, I discovered that it was full of air even the whole unit was tiny enough.:D

Interesting.

Have you compared the Salience against the Lehman Black cube SE?

Seen an interesting comparison on the web with the Lehman just coming out on top. I only need the MM input at present for my 2M black.

[kcc123]

Neither my friends nor I have a Lehman BlackCube SE hence I have not had a chance to do the comparision yet.

[Barry]

One man’s meat is another man’s poison and I also believe that synergy plays a major role to the overall sound of the system. So when I had the Eva Gold combination at home I used quite a few turntables and cartridges for the listening- a Linn LP 12(Lingo) with Ittok and Dynavector D17 mk3, a Linn LP12 ( Hercules and Mose) with Ittok and AT OC9, a Linn LP12 ( Origin Live DC Motor and power supply) with Rega 250 and AT 33PTG, a Technics SP15 with AT 1100 and Technics 205C mk3, a Denon DP80 with Rega 300 and Denon 103 (an Ortofon MC3000 was also used in another occasion but the Eva gold combo could not give enough drive to the cartridge). Other phono stages used were Salience LP2.0 SE, Tom Evans Micro Groove, FM Acoustic 122, and also my modified Cambridge Audio 640P. The Eva Gold V and EXP combination did not fare really well amount them in the comparison. What annoyed me most was the hum introduced by the Eva Gold combination, no matter where I placed them the hum was there, a disappointment indeed.

What were you findings with the FM Acoustics 122 head amp King?

[kcc123]

Hi Barry,

Actually the FM122 is a class A phono preamp not a head amp. This Swiss made preamp is the most versatile and adjustable phono linearizer that I have come across also with superb sound quality to match. It sounds quite neutral with excellent sound stage, clarity and accuracy but a bit faster and dynamic sounding would be appreciated, I think.

However when one has so many turntables, arms and cartridges like me then one is asking for troubles. In order to get the best out from the record, the FM122 has two switches on the front panel to adjust the equalization for different label records. How can I keep adjusting the turnover frequency and 10 KHz attenuation switches with every LP I play as recommended by the manufacturer on the menu. I've counted 83 record company labels on the menu with different settings to suit for their LPs. Some LPs from the same label, for example Columbia, may sound very different so different settings need to be adjusted accordingly, probably some LPs were cut with the wrong equalization or their systems used were not calibrated correctly. Also when I changed a different cartridge, I would often need to change the setting as well. Sometimes I got lost by doing so.

An inside view of the FM 122
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/KCCTKC/FM%20Acoustic%20FM122_zps5llx5gpa.jpg

[Barry]

Yes I knew the FM122 had a very wide range if equalisation curves available (I have always admired FM Acoustics products and used to receive their news letter). Unless you have a lot of records that were made before the universal acceptance of the RIAA equalisation curve (proposed in 1954, but not universally adopted by all until the early '60s), I wouldn't worry to much about the settings - stick to the RIAA curve.

As Quad state in the instructions to the Quad 22 with its range of equalisation curves, if you can't find one that fits exactly then choose the one that best suits your ear.

Cheers
Barry