Another Batch of Bearings from Mike New

[Mike_New]

Hi Folks I am here as invited by Marco.
I am proposing to manufacture another batch of 25 bearings, since the sale of the last one available has now generated a rapid increase
in people wanting one. They are all falling off the fence.
I have had to increase the base price from $625.00 to $685.00 to cover the increase in materials and labour (my Toolmakers not me!!).
The initial price was set about 5 years ago.
So what I propose is that I set the price of the first 15 bearings at $665.00 this will include postage.
The deposit will be $300.00 and regarded as a comitment to buy.
I will post regular status reports and if you agree I will post the names of those people who have joined the scheme.
Is this agreeable to all those that may be interested??

Bearing Base Plates.
The Bearing Base Plates will now be made only by myself in the same way as before.

People have also asked me if I am going to continue manufacturing the ETP Platter.
The answer is YES as this upgrade is totally machined and assembled by myself so I am far more able to control what I do.
I have now standardised on a thickness of 25mm (1") but am happy to supply 30mm if required.

[Audio Al]

Great new Mike re the continuation of the bearing / base plate / platter

Do you make any other unique items HiFi Related ? :eyebrows:

[Mike_New]

No, the only upgrades that I design/manufacture are the three that we all know about.
The simple reason is that it is no use re-inventing the wheel against other people in a very limited market for the products, that is why I do not get involved in power supplies where people like KAB and Paul Haynes are visible.
Admitedly a host of would be look-a-like bearing suppliers try to keep themselves in the market place with much cheaper units, but remember I was the first person to crack it with a totally re-engineered Bearing design, which by it's very nature is not inexpensive compared with all those that have tried to follow me.
There are a number of ways that I could reduce the price, by simply reaming the hole in the Bearing myself would be one.
Instead I use the services of my toolmakers to precision hone the Bearing this costs much more. But the results speak (or sound) for themselves.
You see it is this precision fit of the spindle shaft to the Bearing tunnel which is the secret and the fact that my unique design allows the fully floating
ceramic ball to be internally housed into the precision ground hollow bottom section of the shaft allowing for a much longer shaft for increased stabillity.

[JazzBones]

No, the only upgrades that I design/manufacture are the three that we all know about.
The simple reason is that it is no use re-inventing the wheel against other people in a very limited market for the products, that is why I do not get involved in power supplies where people like KAB and Paul Haynes are visible.
Admitedly a host of would be look-a-like bearing suppliers try to keep themselves in the market place with much cheaper units, but remember I was the first person to crack it with a totally re-engineered Bearing design, which by it's very nature is not inexpensive compared with all those that have tried to follow me.
There are a number of ways that I could reduce the price, by simply reaming the hole in the Bearing myself would be one.
Instead I use the services of my toolmakers to precision hone the Bearing this costs much more. But the results speak (or sound) for themselves.
You see it is this precision fit of the spindle shaft to the Bearing tunnel which is the secret and the fact that my unique design allows the fully floating
ceramic ball to be internally housed into the precision ground hollow bottom section of the shaft allowing for a much longer shaft for increased stabillity.

Hi Mike, as a matter of personal interest, has your present production of bearings changed much in their make up and/or construction? I ask this as I installed a Mike New bearing on Sunday 9th January 2011 so that probably makes me a long term user, four plus years and still going. I know the date because I wrote it down on the instructions sheet that came with it with the notation, 'straight forward but fiddly'. Since then, in order of installation, a MN base plate, a MN Al/Cu platter.

[Mike_New]

Hi Ron,
No, my Bearings produced today and since you first purchased yours in Jan 2011 are of the same design, with the exception that I use a slightly larger floating ceramic ball in the precision ground recess in the bottom of the shaft. This has not reduced the shaft length.
Yes you would be one of the first users next to Martin Taylor I believe.
I am happy that you are happy, I just wish that I could reduce the cost of the Bearing so that many others could enjoy the results. But this would sacrifice quality and I will not do that.

[Marco]

I was ‘on board’ early too, Mike, although I bought mine from you-know-who! :rolleyes:

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Ron,

Did you read my post on your Ortofon stylus pressure gauge thread? Did you get sorted out eventually? :)

Marco.

[Mike_New]

I was ‘on board’ early too, Mike, although I bought mine from you-know-who! :rolleyes:

Marco.

with a dealer in between myself and the customer it is not possible to know where all the Bearings go to.
You-know-who did sell about 30 Bearings for me.
They are now spread across the globe from Moscow to Melbourne

[Marco]

Indeed… I can’t remember who got one first, MT or me….. I think it was him.

Marco.

[prestonchipfryer]

I had one of the first batch way back from I know who too? ;) In fact it may have been the first one FAIK. At the time I also had you know whose bearing, which the MN bearing pisses all over. In fact the MN bearing is a must to get the best sound out of the 1200 TT. So anyone pondering buying a MN bearing, do it.

[Mike_New]

Thanks John for your support.
I am waiting in paroxisms of orgasmic delight for the first 10 contibuters!!!

[prestonchipfryer]

Thanks John for your support.



You're welcome Mike.

[Mike_New]

I am still waiting for the first buyer come on people do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Marco]

I thought the orders were flowing in, and you’d had 10 already, or something, or have I misread that? :scratch:

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Sorry Marco, I said I was waiting for the first ten. I did not say I had them

[MikeMusic]

Best of luck with the sales Mike

Another satisfied punter here

[Mike_New]

What I must impress on everyone is that I am a retired consulting engineer. I am making these Bearings and other upgrades because I enjoy
the challenge of making the SL the intrument that it can be.

[Spectral Morn]

Not sure if anyone has said this before. I suspect that you might sell more easily if installation of the bearing didn't require snipping solder tags on the back of the circuit board. Could the existing bearing design be tweaked, altered so the risk of shorts was removed. I think, feel this may put some of who are not confident re removing solder. Yours is the only replacement bearing, pretty sure of this, that is not an easy simple swap out for the original.

I have also wondered if widening the width of the bearing, where it interfaces with the bottom plate of the turntable (around the hole the bearing sits into) to be an integral baseplate would not be better than having to add your plate, just a thought.


Regards Neil

[Mike_New]

The design of my Bearing is predicated on achieving the maximum amout of metal where it matters down low.
The few wires that may protrude above the circuit board vary across all the production models so it would be silly to restrict the
performance of the Bearing just because these wires need to be snipped off.

Widening the width of the mounting flange is a good point and one which I have considered, however it would have to be an integral part of the Bearing
which would entail a greater amount of machining and wasted metal. And hence it would increase the price.

[CageyH]

I used a layer of insulation tape on top of my bearing to help prevent shorts.
A simple mod that took a couple of minutes for me to do.

[Mike_New]

You need to be careful if you do this as some of the circuit boards have much longer wires protruding and will poke through the
soft insulation tape.
Really, how much effort does it take to snip off the wires with nail scissors???

[Marco]

Nice to see you using your trade room, Mike. Keep up the good work! :)

Btw, posting some pictures of your bearings here now and then would also help generate interest in them, especially if you do it in conjunction with a picture of a stock Technics bearing, and let folk see just how much of a toy the latter is in comparison!!

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Yea OK I will do that but my avatar should help to tell the story.

[CageyH]

You need to be careful if you do this as some of the circuit boards have much longer wires protruding and will poke through the
soft insulation tape.
Really, how much effort does it take to snip off the wires with nail scissors???

This was in addition to trimming the tails.
Really, how much effort does it take to add some tape? :eyebrows:

[Mike_New]

My apologies, I misunderstood your post

[Marco]

Yea OK I will do that but my avatar should help to tell the story.

In my experience, in sales, you can never ‘front up’ your products too much…. ;)

Marco.

[Tarzan]

In my experience, in sales, you can never ‘front up’ your products too much…. ;)

Marco.


Didn't somebody get banned for that?:ner:

[Spectral Morn]

The design of my Bearing is predicated on achieving the maximum amout of metal where it matters down low.
The few wires that may protrude above the circuit board vary across all the production models so it would be silly to restrict the
performance of the Bearing just because these wires need to be snipped off.

Widening the width of the mounting flange is a good point and one which I have considered, however it would have to be an integral part of the Bearing
which would entail a greater amount of machining and wasted metal. And hence it would increase the price.

Yes but would the price be greater than the combined price of bearing and plate? If not and as many say the plate should be used perhaps a combined unit might be an option. Call it product improvement.

Regards Neil

[Mike_New]

Hi Neil, yes I could
But you see the Base Plate really is only required if you want to get the utmost best out of the SL.
And in particular when using my ETP Platter.
This is why I have evolved a modular upgrade path.
Both need to be separate componenets for obvious reasons.
You see people are continually asking for me to produce a less costly Bearing, this cannot be done at the quality and performance I provide.
And we have yet another "vendor" making high claims for a piece of brass screwed to the existing weak cast alloy bearing-housing thus weakening it further.
And at Pstg85.00 I guess it sounds cheap, which is good for the supplier as the piece of 40mm brass bar would only cost about Pstg 15.00. So his profit margin on Pstg 85.00 is far better than mine!!!! (about Pstg65.00 for his own labour!!) and No capital investment outlay of thousands of dollars.

[allthingsanalogue]

I will post some photos of your bearing compared to the basic one!

How come the bearing oil never needs changing? Just wondering.

ATB

Andrew

[allthingsanalogue]

Nice to see you using your trade room, Mike. Keep up the good work! :)

Btw, posting some pictures of your bearings here now and then would also help generate interest in them, especially if you do it in conjunction with a picture of a stock Technics bearing, and let folk see just how much of a toy the latter is in comparison!!

Marco.

You might want to make this a sticky somewhere?

Hi Marco

Here are the photos I took with my camera when I installed the bearing.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/ibiza23/AOS/DSC_0038-Copy_zps210441af.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/ibiza23/AOS/DSC_0037-Copy_zps353caef6.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/ibiza23/AOS/DSC_0036-Copy_zpsf38b5136.jpg

I'm surprised the original bearing lasted without an oil reservoir, obviously it did as DJs abused them every night and still do!

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/ibiza23/AOS/DSC_0041_zpsf8c637d5.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/ibiza23/AOS/DSC_0040_zps4a9a3dc5.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/ibiza23/AOS/DSC_0037_zps5fbedd4f.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/ibiza23/AOS/DSC_0036_zpsea8b64f7.jpg


Andrew

PS - By the way I'm keeping my 1210 and not getting the Gyro! I had a ground issue that's now fixed!

[aniki]

How come the bearing oil never needs changing?

My guess would be that the oil is not in an environment (read: temperature / friction / material deposits / contamination) whereby it can degrade.
Hopefully MN can confirm...

[allthingsanalogue]

My guess would be that the oil is not in an environment (read: temperature / friction / material deposits / contamination) whereby it can degrade.
Hopefully MN can confirm...

Well I know it's fully synthetic oil, if that makes a difference and the Mike New superb bearing uses a Silicone Nitride bearing.

I know mineral oil degrades such as the mineral oil used in Linn's. I suppose most TT's have never had an oil change.

[Mike_New]

Hi Adam,
The oil I use in the bottom well of the Bearing is a high pressure lubicant with an ultra high pressure additive this lubicates the shaft support which is a high precision ceramic ball resting on a carbide base.
The actual shaft bearing is a syntered oil embedded insert honed to fit the individual shafts.
As such this bearing insert does not really need any additional oil as the space between shaft and bearing is measured in microns.

What has concerned me for some time is that we tend to confuse the components in the bearing.
The common defination of a bearing is a rotating device which carries a load bearing shaft. note my emphasis on rotating.
there are many forms of this: crankshaft and camshaft bearings (if your a petrol head) wheel bearings, ball bearings, taper bearings.
A single ball is refered to as a "ball bearing"
In all of these the term "bearing' in the english language, is used in a very flexible and sometimes ambiguous way.

In the case of the technics "bearing" the whole assembly is refered to as "The Bearing" but in fact it consists of two separate parts which are also regarded technically as bearings!!! The support bearing which keeps the shaft vertical. Let us call this this the latteral support bearing. And the bottom bearing which supports the dowmward vertical load.
It is the latter which attracts the most attention but which is the least important in terms of the characteristics that we require in an audio Bearing supporting a platter which carries the recorded sound on the vynal.

However this is the cheapest area to fiddle with (in the OEM bearing) and impress the tecnically uninformed with all sorts of terminology that must surely radically improve the sonics, garnished of course with a variety of magic oils. WRONG!!!!
If the platter did not have to rotate then we would have the ultimate Bearing.

With the weight of the rotating assembly (platter, mat, centre weight, record ) always directed downwards through the centre line of the shaft, then
the rotating assembly is not going anywhere vertically no matter what sort of bottom bearing (within reason) we use.

What is so very important for us is that the platter does not "flutter" up and down caused by the actual looseness of the lateral support bearing and agravated by the music data being extracted.
If the shaft can move back and forth at the top of it's lateral support bearing, pivoting on it's bottom support. Then for 0.001MM at the top of the shaft the vertical movement at the edge of the platter will be multiplied to about 0.15mm. This will proportionally reduce as we get to the centre of the platter.
Further, the fact that the shaft can oscillate on it's pivot due to looseness in it's lateral bearing/sleeve, then the platter and recording are effectively being moved sideways by this movement.

So you see as I have said before the shaft can sit on the top of the bloody Tower Bridge or the most expensive ruby, diamond, ceramic or whatever available.
It will do little good (for our purpose) if the lateral supporting bearing /sleeve and shaft is not of the absolute highest precision fit, thus removing any possible movement of the platter.

My Bearing does not use any exotic ideas or treatment for the vertical support of the shaft. Just a precision ceramic ball supported by a carbide pad.
The cost is in the high precision polishing of the shaft and the very high precision honing of the latteral bearing to fit the shaft, and measured in microns.
This way we get as close as possible to a rigidly "fixed" platter as sugested earlier.
Further the use of a solid housing machined from brass bar compliments the precision of the bearing generally as can be seen from the excellent images that
Andrew has included.

[aniki]

Superb explanation. Thanks Mike.

[allthingsanalogue]

Yep, agreed, superb explanation. Thanks Mike. Feel free to use the pictures for your advertising etc.

[Mike_New]

Thanks Andrew,
It's a shame that there are far less people these days showing any interest in the SL1200.
Or could it be that there are now a confusing number of options and highly "complex" and involved opinions which scare away the
would be enthusiast from trying any upgrade.

[Ulysses]

Yes, that would apply to me I suppose (a confusing number of divergent opinions)


Thanks Andrew,
It's a shame that there are far less people these days showing any interest in the SL1200.
Or could it be that there are now a confusing number of options and highly "complex" and involved opinions which scare away the
would be enthusiast from trying any upgrade.

[Mike_New]

I guess from my point of view I call them "me-too" experts.

[NRG]

I have no dog in this race but that IMHO is uncalled for. There are viable alternatives wether you like it or not and some of them Mike may be better than yours, think about it....

[allthingsanalogue]

I guess from my point of view I call them "me-too" experts.

Mike, Don't let 'em get you down.

Your bearing is superb, as is I'm sure your ETP. Sometimes a different sound can be perceived as an upgrade but not 'necessarily' so.

I had a wobble a dew days ago thinking to change my TT, all over a ground hum issue that is now sorted. I then started thinking of all the things I'd done to the deck and when I stated comparing it to others I thought, you know what the Sl1210 is better. You are right, it IS a shame that there are far less people these days showing any interest in the SL1200'.

The problem is only a couple of years ago you could buy a SH deck for around £100 or so and now they are £300 or £400 and it's now not looking the bargain it once was and people are thinking, bloody hell for the cost of a deck, psu, bearing etc., I could buy a new 'well known' so called high end deck but they will never achieve the sound quality available for the 1210.

I have spent over £2300 on my SL ex cartridge and yes you can buy a high end deck for that but in my opinion to get the best sound from vinyl I think all decks cost around that money, whether it's a Michell orbe, VPI, clearaudio etc. and don't even get me started on the LP12, which now costs an obscene amount of money although I now believe excluding the 'platter and bearing' it is now possible to build an LP12 without any Linn parts whatsoever!

I'm sure you bearing for example is better made that the majority of bearing in these decks, I used work for a HiFi dealer for over 7 years and believe me I know the trade prices and to sell your bearing at a retailer with a branded name would cost at least 3 times as much, maybe even 4 so yes your products are extremely good value but sometimes people think if it has a branded name, fancy box it must be better.

And no it's not difficult to get a pair of side cutters and trim the excess protruding pins from the coil, if you're not prepared to get yours hands dirty upgrading a 1210 go buy a different deck! :mental:

This post is not meant in anyway to offend anyone else here making products after all, 'variety is the spice of life' and we can't all like the same things.

Keep the faith mike and hopefully I will be able to afford the ETP soon.

PS with the ETP, would you say that without a mat would it be the same height as the standard platter with a 5 or 6mm mat? It's just with the Rega arm and a 20mm cartridge and '4' 2mm spacers I'm running out of VTA adjustment.

Thanks again.

Andrew :)

[Mike_New]

Andrew,
As you mention spacers, are you saying that you cannot get the arm low enough?
I can produce a thicker Platter for you which would be 30mm thick instead of the standard 25mm

[allthingsanalogue]

Oh no, the problem is not getting it high enough.

You see the 'REGA' arms have no VTA adjustment whatsoever. The only way to make it fit cartridges higher than REGA's own cartridges that are 16mm is to use spacers to raise the arm height.

http://www.analogueseduction.net/user/products/large/1247422091_REGA_3PTSPACER_w450_h400.jpg

See here, already 4 being used on my deck. Oyaide mat can be seen just on the left. These spacers I might add are a colossal £18 each!!!!!!!!!!!

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff430/ibiza23/AOS/DSC02457_zpsqvqzkxfg.jpg

My cartridge is 19 to 20mm 'ish' depending on thickness of record, the Oyaide mat and BR-1 rubber mat are a total of 6mm so to get the arm at the right height you need spacers.

If for example the ETP was higher than the combined height of the 'original SL platter with a 6mm mat' I may struggle to get the arm parallel. If the ETP requires 'no mat' or a very thin one I could just add 1 more spacer or so to get the right height. If the ETP was the same or as close as the original platter it would be no problem. Of course if needs no mat, I would then have one made with a label recess and then it could be the same height as I'm using now with the thick mat on the original platter.

I hope this makes sense.

[Mike_New]

One thing puzzles me Andrew,
I can see from your excellent sharp images that the base of the tone arm is mounted to a plate which is attached below the basic circular arm board.
If you inverted the assembly you would probably get more that enough vertical height.
I believe this is similar to an arm board combination which DC used to sell for the Jelco which does have adjustment anyway.
I must say that the mechanical arrangement of your arm seems to be somewhat involved for what is required and observing the profile of the spacers, they must have to be lazer cut and then machined.
All those spacers do not make for a rigid structure, don't they offer various sizes?

[allthingsanalogue]

I believe they are laser cut, they are perfectly flat also.

I never thought about inverting the armboard:doh:

In that case the platter height would be fine!:lol:

Rega make the spacers and they only come in 2mm variants. Other companies make them also but I stuck with the Rega made ones.

[Mike_New]

Now you will have to buy one!!!

[CageyH]

A Speedy Steve arm board could be made to solve your issue quite easily.
It will probably be a bit of an upgrade as well.

[aniki]

I never thought about inverting the armboard:doh:

In that case the platter height would be fine!:lol:


Just another option. I personally prefer the aesthetic of the two layer board (and the sonics of aluminium over steel or wood) and had a similar issue as I was using a board designed for a different arm.
The lower of the two plates can be inverted but still remain beneath the main board which will save about 3mm.
What you can also do is fit some thicker spacers between the main board and the SL1210.
This way you end up with the board being visually much as it should be but you will gain a fair bit of VT height and probably get rid of at least two shims

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/aniki666/8F7F4AC7-D39B-441F-969E-0977A82FA2A6_1.jpg

[Mike_New]

Hi Folks,
I now have 3 Bearings available for quick delivery.

[Tiff_Needle]

How much for it delivered in Portugal?

[Mike_New]

Hi Johnathan,
The price of my Bearing includes postage to anywhere in the world:--- $685.00

[Marco]

Go on, Jonathan. You've always wanted to treat yourself! :)

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Hi folks,
At this point in time I should explain what my situation is in regard to the ongoing production of bearings and ETP Platters.
Regarding the Bearings: As a favour to me as a long standing customer. My toolmakers produced an extra 18 precision shafts (the costly part) when they machined the last batch as they had some spare time on the NC lathe and enough spare material for the exta units.
These are now being used to produce much smaller batches of 5 off.
There are 14 remaining shafts and I have 3 completed Bearings available for delivery. (I delivered 2 Bearings to customers in late May.)

When these remaining shafts are used I do not think that I shall be in a position to order another batch of 25, as the current sales rate
indicates that it will take very many months to sell them and I will have the money tied up during this time which unfortunately is not good
bussiness sense.
I guess what I am trying to say is that there are now available a further 14 High Precision Bearings, when these are sold there may not be any more.

Regarding the ETP Platters: I now only order 2 blanks at a time which costs me more, however I can absorb this.
I control all the manufacturing and machining process's myself so up-fronts costs are not a problem.
However again, the sales are now drying up to the point where I now only get orders very sporadically which does require extra effort to do the work.

It has been fun supplying the upgrades to all of you over the last 5 years, but unfortunately when Technics ceased production of the ol SL1200
interest in upgrades fell off considerably.
However the party is not yet over so throw out your clockwork turn tables and get a SL1200 and fit it with a good Bearing and power supply.