View Full Version : Minor speaker cable upgrade
Hi there,
I currently have QED ORIGINAL OFC (http://www.compassaudio.co.uk/QED-Original-Speaker-Cable-p/c-qo-100.htm) running to my speakers and was wondering maybe it was time to get something a little better.
The cable at the moment is about 10m long when it only needs to be about 2m in the current placement, so rather than cut down the old stuff I thought I should get some better stuff.
Does anyone have an opinion on whether an upgrade to some VDH Clearwater or Black Rhodium Twist (or similar priced alternative) is going to be money well spent?
Thanks
Robert
Riislingen
03-03-2015, 17:12
Hi Robert,
Great idea. What setup will it be part in ?
Imo speaker cables tend to be the most audible, at least in some setups.
Budget appears to be between 5-10 quid a meter ?
Hi Mikkel
At the moment the system is a Marantz CD6000OSE KI thru a REGA BRIO 3 to a pair of PMC GB1.
I am using QED Qunex 2 RCAs but also have a pair of very nice orange IXOS XHA606 (http://www.tvcables.co.uk/cgi-bin/tvcables/XHA606-100.html) cables which I might have to try out [not sure if either of those are particularly good but seem to remember they cost me what seemed like a fair few quid when I bought them 10-15 years or so back]. [[[In fact I might actually try that right now and see if the Pergolesi sounds even better with them!]]]
There is also a dead SL1210 that I am probably going to switch for a REGA Planar 3 with at least an MP-110 at some point soon. I am also having upgrade thoughts re the CDP. It sounds gorgeous most of the time but sometimes the highs can be really shrill, and I think it will be switched at some point but this will probably be dependent more on lucking out with a screaming bargain on eBay than anyting else. (Currently looking at how Rega Saturns are selling)
Budget probably about £10 a metre though I can maybe go a little higher if anyone convinces me that it will give a decent return. I am going to just use generic gold plated screw on banana plugs, again unless there is a consensus that getting them crimped or soldered will really make a difference as my local hifi shop can probably do that for me FOC.
R
Riislingen
03-03-2015, 18:42
Ok, very helpful info - what types of music is coming through that wonderful gear ?
[[[In fact I might actually try that right now and see if the Pergolesi sounds even better with them!]]]
I had L channel with one lead going into the R-CD input and the R channel with another lead going into the R-LINE input and switched between them. The QUNEX 2 sounded better so we have stuck with it but the test is unsound really as the L&R channels were not the same in the base recording. I would have persisted and found a better suited CD but my test subject complained that it was beginning to feel like torture and begged me to stop, so I stopped.
:rolleyes:
Ok, very helpful info - what types of music is coming through that wonderful gear ?
Thanks! - Currently Pergolesi's Stabat Mater, though earlier today it was some Charles Mingus and yesterday it was Zappa's Yellow Shark and some Pablo Casals.
Riislingen
03-03-2015, 18:58
Uh, great taste - similar to what I prefer.
I guess you would want: tone, body, a hint of warmth and vibrance before resolution, speed and detail.
If that is the case, I'd recommend the new Talk3, better yet the new TelluriumQ Blue Diamond. If considering VdH, The Cleartrack is only interesting if you run them double to each speaker or consider using The Snowtrack and tie two ends together for each side - that setup was one of the legendary budget solutions in Scandinavia a few years back.
If that is the case, I'd recommend the new Talk3, better yet the new TelluriumQ Blue Diamond.
I just had a look and the Talk3 is £3.50/m and the Blue Diamond is £170/m !!! Are these the cables you meant?
Riislingen
03-03-2015, 19:21
Shed, not a chance - mind elsewhere Ultra Blue was what I meant.
Shed, not a chance - mind elsewhere Ultra Blue was what I meant.
Thats coming in at £31/m which is out of my league I am afraid. Could probably stretch to the BLUE but first google hit was "I hate this cable all my music sounds awful now"
:lol:
Riislingen
03-03-2015, 19:34
Odd, just did a quote for a 2 meter set terminated at future shop. Came in at 60 or so all up.
<edit>
Just noticed they only quote the mono length, you're right. Ditch the bastard then :)
Does anyone have an opinion on whether an upgrade to some VDH Clearwater or Black Rhodium Twist (or similar priced alternative) is going to be money well spent?
To get back to my original question, I have found some BLACK RHODIUM JIVE terminated (in the right length) being sold at a big discount (like 70% off)
Does anyone have views on this cable? Seems like I can't go wrong at the price really...
R
To get back to my original question, I have found some BLACK RHODIUM JIVE terminated (in the right length) being sold at a big discount (like 70% off)
Does anyone have views on this cable? Seems like I can't go wrong at the price really...
R
I think your Thread Title is a good one - it will be a minor upgrade. I certainly agree that shortening the cable can only improve things. I haven't heard Black Rhodium but they have a good reputation. You may want to give Wireworld Stream a go. I have heard it in two systems - it is excellent and is well reviewed.
I think your Thread Title is a good one - it will be a minor upgrade.
:)
I wonder with the kit that I have if it is possible to do really anything more than minor upgrades without actually replacing a main component.
:)
I wonder with the kit that I have if it is possible to do really anything more than minor upgrades without actually replacing a main component.
It appears you have: CD → Amp → Speakers with each of those components being of good reputation. Short answer to your Q is No. But here a few things to consider:
(1) Always look at interconnects. Normally I don't recommend cable upgrades, but as you have only one source you may consider an interconnect upgrade. Have a look at http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?33823-Geisha-Interconnect for a possibility, if not then for a bit of fun.
(2) Question: does that Marantz play SACD? if so then they are a decent step up.
(3) Again with that CD player; can you use it as a transport? If so, then an aftermarket DAC would be beneficial. But three warnings: One is that you will lose the Marnatz 'House Sound' that you may prefer. The second is that it will require another set of interconnects. Third is that this is an expensive option. Don't be seduced by 'wonderful cheap dac'. They do not exist.
(4) Again with the CD player, and this time a minor point: I recall Ken Ishiwata stressing that it was important to keep the CD player level. I don't fully understand that - but hey!
First job is definitely to get your existing cable shorter. I'd then try your other interconnects out for a few days to give your ears a chance. I personally found the Qunex fairly bright.
First job is definitely to get your existing cable shorter. I'd then try your other interconnects out for a few days to give your ears a chance. I personally found the Qunex fairly bright.
Done it - both are now at 300cm.
I tried out my old Cyrus Two amp against the Brio 3 this afternoon and it was a close run thing. I thought the Brio would be clearly better but the Cyrus sounded lovely - really full and rich. The Brio won, but it was not as one-sided as I had been expecting.
I am having a bit of upgraditis on the ICs though. Despite lack of input from anyone about it, I will probably get the discounted JIVE cable and just sit happily and enjoy what I have for a while, but I am being seriously tempted by the idea of getting a pair of super fancy ICs. Ones catching my eye FS at around the £100 mark at the moment are as follows:
1. Black Rhodium Symphony
2. Black Rhodium Tempo
3. Mark Grant G2000HD
4. Klotz/MS AoS specials
5. King Cobras
Any advice? (and yes I know "listen to them in your system and trust your ears" but I am not going to try all four and I am pretty sure thatany of them are going to sound great)
Anyway - tis nice talking about these things as it saves me actually buying them for the moment!!!
ALSO - STILL LOOKING FOR ANY COMMENTS ON THE RHODIUM JIVE CABLE, IF ANYONE HAS ANY EXPERIENCE OF IT?!?!?!
ALSO - STILL HAD NO COMMENTS ON THE VD CLEARWATER (http://www.vdctrading.com/shop/van-damme-cable/speaker/hi-fi-speaker/van-damme-loudspeaker-2-x-600mm-directional-hi-fi-per-metre/)
R
:eek:
[NB I should probably point out that part of the reason for me upgrading my speaker cable and the RCA is that I want to give my current cable to both a friend of mine who seriously needs sthg better than the doorbell he uses now and is never going to buy it [or a decent pair of RCAs] for himself, and also my mum who is about to move in to a new house and I am going to set up a wee system for her...]
oh and...
(2) Question: does that Marantz play SACD? if so then they are a decent step up.
YES!!!
Yeah it's a lovely player really - I think I have to keep it for a while and spend my money on a TT...
R
Can you solder?
If so, make up some Klotz MC5000 cables and try them. Failing that, I am sure Brian can help and supply.
They really do punch well above their weight performance wise.
Others to consider are the Rega Couple clones (Klotz AC110) or the Van Damme Ultra Black - not my favourite as it's silver plated.
You really don't need to spend loads on cables, unless you really want to!
The Mark Grant G2000HD is also very good, but you already knew that.
:)
I wonder with the kit that I have if it is possible to do really anything more than minor upgrades without actually replacing a main component.
Cables can be quite surprising, I am going to send you something quite special within your budget to try. 2 metre pair
I am at a funeral tomorrow so will post some friday, you may be shocked what £100 cables can do if chosen wisely! :)
I am going to send you something quite special within your budget to try.
you may be shocked what £100 cables can do if chosen wisely! :)
Agreed. Can you shed any light on these?
Agreed. Can you shed any light on these?
Something from Black Rhodium I have been fettling, not twist either!
Cables can be quite surprising, I am going to send you something quite special within your budget to try. 2 metre pair
I am at a funeral tomorrow so will post some friday, you may be shocked what £100 cables can do if chosen wisely! :)
Wow - thanks David that sounds really great - I am very happy indeed to be shocked! I'll be up in Wales from tomorrow until Mon 16 so forgive me if you don't hear any cable feedback before then...
R
Ok so today I received a parcel with what looks like very posh speaker cable indeed inside it.
It looks just like Black Rhodium Iris, except with gold Z plugs instead of Rhodium ones. Indeed David told me it was a couple of jumps up the range from the Jive I was asking about (which was £35 discounted down from £120)
Seems hard to find online but what I can find prices a 3metre pair at £375, with the Rhodium plugs. (https://www.hsound.co.uk/product/black-rhodium-iris-loudspeaker-cable/) Difference in price for the plugs alone on the BR site is about £60 so RRP of what I have should be around the £300 mark. And I am being asked for less than 30% of that....
So where's the catch?
Won't be back in London to listen to these until late weekend.... but I will report back.
R
Have you tried any of the Van Damme cables?
Good VFM from the 4mm and 6mm cables.
Don't overlook them because they are cheap.
No, but if you read the thread you will see that is exactly one of the cables I have been asking about! The ones I just have look very fancy indeed - main issue with them is they will make the rest of my system look a bit cheap! How do you reckon the vd 6mm will stack up against some fancyBlack Rhodium?
I think they will stack up well. The Black Rhodium may be slightly better, but at a higher cost.
I tried the 6mm cable in my system and it was pretty good. I just preferred the Belden RG-8/U coax as it was slightly better. The Van Damme is cheap enough to try without worrying about fitting Z plugs. If you like the cable, get Z plugs fitted later.
The Van Dam me is cheap enough that I bi-wire using 6mm for the lower drivers and 2.5 mm for the tweeters. Works well and does not break the bank.
The Van Dam me is cheap enough that I bi-wire using 6mm for the lower drivers and 2.5 mm for the tweeters. Works well and does not break the bank.
sounds nice
Can't wait till Sunday to try out this Black Rhodium IRIS-esque stuff I got sent though.
It does look way way too fancy though for my tastes. I am kind of embarrassed by them!
My Brio 3 is gonna be mutton dressed as lamb and no mistake...
icehockeyboy
13-03-2015, 17:20
In my system I used to have TQ Black £200 for a 2m pair.
I now have Van Damme 6mm Blue £50 ish for a 2m pair.
Buggered if I can hear much, if any difference at a quarter of the price.
In my system I used to have TQ Black £200 for a 2m pair.
I now have Van Damme 6mm Blue £50 ish for a 2m pair.
Buggered if I can hear much, if any difference at a quarter of the price.
Well I never got the chance to try anything in the middle.
When I contacted David at MCRU it was to ask him about whether the 2.5m pair of Black Rhodium Jive he was selling at £35 discounted from £120 was going to make much difference to what I was using.
He replied asking me what my budget was...
Anyway so here I am a bit later with a pair of what looks like Black Rhodium Iris, except with gold Z plugs over the rhodium plugs. From where I can find it on the web these cables should cost about £300, and they look insane. When I got back from being away we were sitting around listening to music and I plugged in the new cables. My other half was stunned at the difference. I told her that they were going to cost £100 and she just said "pay him". I told her that he was also going to recommend some interconnects for us and she said that on the strength of the speaker cables, I should just buy whatever he suggested. This is rather a big deal - trying to get E interested in the stereo is difficult. She likes when it sounds good, but generally has ZERO interest in how it gets to sound that way, yet with this she was all - "Cool - they look like snakes"
:kiss:
Sadly David seems to have been banned from here whilst this was all going on. He is maybe a bit brusque in emails but what he has sent me is astoundingly good and the price is way lower than what I would usually expect to pay for something like this, so all I can say is that I have been happy doing business with him so far and am happy to be unaware of whatever the intrigue is... indeed the fact that he spent so long on emails for such a tiny sale was kind of amazing really. David even sent the cables to an address that he knew my mum was moving out of, and he doesn't know me from Adam, and I like the trust based nature of that a lot. He still hasn't asked me for any money, and hopefully some more cables are on the way...
Loving the stereo - its like a whole new system.... thank you David (and he even included some wee pre-cut pieces of the same wire for nowt, so I could make my own bridgers!)
:guitar:
http://i.imgur.com/qFBEEN8.jpg
Ninanina
21-03-2015, 18:28
The Mark Grant G2000HD is also very good, but you already knew that.
I would second that. Mark's cables are very good indeed and great value for money... ;)
I would second that. Mark's cables are very good indeed and great value for money... ;)
I've just picked up a pair of G1000HD...
maxrob200
26-03-2015, 01:46
I have used CAT-6 solid-core ethernet cables as speaker cables in a bi-wire shotgun configuration and have got excellent results from them. I use 2 conductors for treble and 6 for the bass. One CAT-6 for + and another for -
The cable that sounded best was solid-core CAT 6 with a centre spine. The worst sounding CAT 6 was the flat ribbon version. Stranded versions also dont sound good IMO
From different forums, it is a poor man's Litz style cable
Decent interconnects improve performance out of sight.
Floyddroid
27-03-2015, 15:16
I thought you were banned???
Cables can be quite surprising, I am going to send you something quite special within your budget to try. 2 metre pair
I am at a funeral tomorrow so will post some friday, you may be shocked what £100 cables can do if chosen wisely! :)
I thought you were banned???
He got banned in the middle of our transaction, which was a bit weird for me as a new member on the forum who was blissfully unaware of any of its politics. I have nothing but praise for the man though as he has sold me some very good cable at a crazy price, and he is far more amusing to deal with than most people one comes across in life.
:thumbsup:
R
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