View Full Version : Thoughts on Graphic EQs
Despite me stating in a previous thread that I don't like graphic equalisers....I'm now thinking about buying a cheap one to try.
Are they really able to pull certain tones to the fore. My systems mid range has all but gone since I changed my amp. Vocals seem trapped inside the speakers now. A change of interconnect has helped but I still want more improvement. Do I try an EQ or get rid?
The Barbarian
26-02-2015, 22:50
O dear John every time i mention EQ it's brings out the brainwashed brigade which inevitably ends in tears.
I think they are fine if fine tuning is needed but if its as bad as you say then I think you will need to look elsewhere tbh.
walpurgis
26-02-2015, 23:04
I wouldn't use one in the system as such, because it's another link to add possibly undesirable effects. But as a tool for balancing recordings, they have their uses.
I think they are fine if fine tuning is needed but if its as bad as you say then I think you will need to look elsewhere tbh.
Amp (HK 670) or speakers (Boston Acoustic A26) Grant?
O dear John every time i mention EQ it's brings out the brainwashed brigade which inevitably ends in tears.
Eh?
The Barbarian
26-02-2015, 23:20
The cloth ear mob that don't like tone controls don't like EQ's..
Amp (HK 670) or speakers (Boston Acoustic A26) Grant?
The Bostons are quite small drivers and the HK is a tad soft and doesn't push bass out as much as some HK's. Could be just a poor mix of equipment John. If you could take either and try it on a different system it may give you the answer. If you are ever in my area you could bring the amp round to try on some different speaks.
walpurgis
26-02-2015, 23:25
Are your speaker cables good? What is your front end (source)?
I really don't think an equaliser is going to improve things. You may be best off looking at the system as a whole and assessing where the most logical improvement could be made.
walpurgis
26-02-2015, 23:27
The cloth ear mob that don't like tone controls don't like EQ's..
Some of us don't need them Andr'e. :)
The Barbarian
26-02-2015, 23:29
I don't need one but i like what an EQ adds to the sound. I'd love a Soundcraftsman 20-12a. I'd post pickkies of it on AOS every single day :D
Ninanina
26-02-2015, 23:36
John I can't help thinking that the problem lies in the match between your amp and your speakers. If I were nearer I would ask you to bring round both and try each on another system... I have a low powered valve amp but have a friend who has NVA gear that would probably 'wake-up' the speakers. I personally would not touch a graphic EQ but that's just my opinion...:D
The Barbarian
26-02-2015, 23:39
The laughable thing is with the anti EQ/Anti-Tone control mob is they are constantly swap & change their hi-fi. :mental:
I just play with my knobs & hey presto.
walpurgis
26-02-2015, 23:46
I don't need one but i like what an EQ adds to the sound. I'd love a Soundcraftsman 20-12a. I'd post pickkies of it on AOS every single day :D
That looks very similar to the SAE jobbies.
Ninanina
26-02-2015, 23:47
I just play with my knobs & hey presto.
That's just fine... ;)
walpurgis
26-02-2015, 23:55
Here's my cheapo Tandy job:
14023
Yes, that is a Tandy (Realistic) reverb unit at the top.
I had a succession of the bleeders in the 70s/80s and they could keep me amused for hours fiddling about :lol:
the last one I had was a super flat Technics jobby:
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/technics_stereo_graphic_equalizer_8.html
I got rid a few years back when I realised it had been parked on the floor for well over a decade
My system consists mainly of the HK670 and the source in question is a Sansui CDD 201V. Speakers are Boston Acoustic A26's.
My primary cables are Van Damme Blue & Van Damme IC's but I've changed the speaker cable to Chord silver stuff & the IC is now a Silver High Breed model.
The change in cables helped but I still can't help but think the amp is the problem, although I think the Bostons tend to lean towards the warmer side of neutral.
If I use the amp in Source Direct mode it sounds awfully dull to my ears, with direct off I've had to knock the bass back & up the treble a bit. I know that's what they're there for but I've never
needed to do it with any other amps I've had in the past (there have been a few).
The phono stage is cack too imo. I thought HK had a good rep.
I very nearly bought a QED A240 off a guy in Ayrshire last month, he's got it advertised on the Wam…might try it out.
Some seem to think so; I'm not a lover of their stuff. but all thinks are system dependent and everyone has differing requirements. If as I say you could try another amp in your system then it will give you a clue I'd say.
Some seem to think so; I'm not a lover of their stuff. but all thinks are system dependent and everyone has differing requirements. If as I say you could try another amp in your system then it will give you a clue I'd say.
My son has an older HK, I can't recall it sounding like mine so I'll give it a whirl in my system tomorrow.
I've just been tinkering and have managed to get it sounding reasonable with CD using the following settings.
Source Direct off (sounds rubbish on).
Bass in centre postion.
Treble at 3 o'clock position.
The treble adjustment seems excessive to me and I'm wondering if it is just down to a basic miss match of components as has been suggested.
Come to think of it, my last amp was a Sony TA-F6B which if I'm not mistaken is reputed to be a fairly bright/clean sounding amp and I never felt the need to adjust the tone controls at all so perhaps the inherent character of
the Sony counter acted the warmth of the Bostons to the point of it being 'just right' to my ears.
Previous to the Sony I had a Yamaha AS-500 which is another amp which tends to err on the bright side of neutral too, no probs there either.
Anyway, what to do? Do I?
1. Sell the HK for what I paid for it (£60) and buy something else for the same money (Like the QED A240CD).
2. Keep the HK Spend circa £30 on a cheap used equaliser & £20 on a cheapo phono stage.
3. Look for some different speakers (but how the hell are you supposed to know what to get).
4. None of the above, stop moaning and just listen to the music.
jandl100
27-02-2015, 07:23
4. None of the above, stop moaning and just listen to the music.
;)
One of the best "graphic equalizers" for a hifi is a Behringer DEQ2496, imo - very flexible and surprisingly transparent - you can usually pick them up used for £100-£150, which might be out of your price bracket.
Add a mic and you can do the full room response levelling thing.
Wonderful pieces of kit, imho, if you want to tinker around with the sound.
I know of some folk who have bought one and couldn't suss out how to use them though :lol: - quite dauntingly complex to start with, it does take a while!
Beobloke
27-02-2015, 10:18
Firstly let me clarify that I have no issue with a decent tone control or graphic equaliser. They're a quick and easy way to add a bit of sparkle to a dull recording, or helping to remove a troublesome room resonance.
However, this statement here...
My systems mid range has all but gone since I changed my amp. Vocals seem trapped inside the speakers now.
...suggests that your system's balance has been upset by the new amp and all you'll do by adding an EQ is to try and get two wrongs to make a right. I'd sort out the basic system to get it much nearer how you want it first and then see if you stil need an EQ.
Out of interest - whay did you change the amp for one you don't like?! ;)
walpurgis
27-02-2015, 10:20
Not having used your particular model of HK amplifier, I can't comment on the compatibilty with other parts of the system. But if you were to try another amp at the sort of money you mention, I'd be looking at a Denon, a PMA-250SE or even better PMA-350SE. Sometimes they include a phono stage (a decent one too) or they come without, you'd need to check. The Denons are good sounding amps and a known quantity, therefore if you still had problems you'd know they lie elsewhere.
Hi John,
By all means try a graphic equaliser if you’re curious and think it’ll work, but in your circumstances I suspect it’ll only act as a ‘bandage’, by papering over cracks that need fixing properly, and that can only be done by addressing the issues you have with your system ‘at source’.
Good luck, though, and I hope you sort things out soon :)
Marco.
Firstly let me clarify that I have no issue with a decent tone control or graphic equaliser. They're a quick and easy way to add a bit of sparkle to a dull recording, or helping to remove a troublesome room resonance.
However, this statement here...
...suggests that your system's balance has been upset by the new amp and all you'll do by adding an EQ is to try and get two wrongs to make a right. I'd sort out the basic system to get it much nearer how you want it first and then see if you stil need an EQ.
Out of interest - whay did you change the amp for one you don't like?! ;)
Box swopping and thinking the grass is greener basically.
There’s your problem…. Unless you treat box-swapping the way Jerry does.
Try and get yourself a settled system, where you can just relax and enjoy the music :)
Marco.
Not having used your particular model of HK amplifier, I can't comment on the compatibilty with other parts of the system. But if you were to try another amp at the sort of money you mention, I'd be looking at a Denon, a PMA-250SE or even better PMA-350SE. Sometimes they include a phono stage (a decent one too) or they come without, you'd need to check. The Denons are good sounding amps and a known quantity, therefore if you still had problems you'd know they lie elsewhere.
What's the diff between the 250SE & the UK variant. There's a few of each on Ebay at the moment.
That QED could be a good starting point - they're a cracking amp with a good phono stage to boot. For the money it's a good buy IMHO.
walpurgis
28-02-2015, 23:58
What's the diff between the 250SE & the UK variant. There's a few of each on Ebay at the moment.
The PMA-250SE is a UK model. It's good, but the PMA-350SE is far punchier and more lucid, worth tracking down. I've had a couple and they always surprise me with how good they are.
Ronksley
01-03-2015, 08:59
Interesting stuff I would say go for the QED or a Denon amp as others have suggested
I was thinking about getting some digital signal processing and a DAC and a really good third octave analogue EQ but then got to ill to work and afford such kit something I will look at again if have the money More recently been thinking I might get a ULTRACURVE PRO DEQ2496 for digital processing feeding into a Beresford DAC as a cheaper alternative. This would be more to compensate for my damaged hearing and stupid shaped rooms
Interesting stuff I would say go for the QED or a Denon amp as others have suggested
I was thinking about getting some digital signal processing and a DAC and a really good third octave analogue EQ but then got to ill to work and afford such kit something I will look at again if have the money More recently been thinking I might get a ULTRACURVE PRO DEQ2496 for digital processing feeding into a Beresford DAC as a cheaper alternative. This would be more to compensate for my damaged hearing and stupid shaped rooms
I'm watching a few Denons of the models suggested on Ebay, they don't go for a lot of cash either :thumbsup:
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