Linn Asak / VdH - good buy / bad buy?

[jandl100]

eBay impetuosity strikes again! :doh: :D

Purchased yesterday evening - no, I wasn't drunk! :nono: ;)

Despite being very happy with both my Orty MC25FL and GAS 2-MF carts, for some reason this BIN listing took my fancy. :scratch:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linn-Asak-moving-coil-cartridge-Van-Den-Hul-retipped-/331483557176?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d2df5ad38

- Any thoughts?

- Can anyone decipher VdH's inscription on the cart body shown in one of the photos?

- Do I return it as unsuitable when it arrives? :scratch:

Will I like it?

Any views, opinions or application forms for me to fill in for my local Home for the Bewildered are welcome! :)

[Barry]

I used to have a Linn Asak, but it saw little use after I found an EMT. The Asak was recently sold to a fellow member here, who is delighted with it.

The quality of Van den Hul's work in replacing the stylii with one of his own, has often been criticised as being poor and messy, with excessive use of glue being frequently cited. However the proof is in the listening - I don't see why your purchase should not play well. The original Asak was fitted with a stylus having an Ogura profile. I'm not sure how that compares with Van den Hul's 'gothic arch' profile.

Sorry, I can't read the inscription Van den Hul has made on the cartridge body either. Probably a date when the work was done.

Incidently some users have reported benefits in using the cartridge 'nude' - the outer cover can be removed quite easily. I can't say I noticed any difference when I tried it with mine.

Let us know how you get on. :)

[jandl100]

Thanks Barry - I'm expecting / hoping for a rather different sound compared to my Ortofon MC25FL - I suspect the Asak/VdH will deliver that in spades!

I'm a bit of a clumsy oaf, so I will be guided by your own experience of 'nuding' the Asak and not bother. :)

[Barry]

Thanks Barry - I'm expecting / hoping for a rather different sound compared to my Ortofon MC25FL - I suspect the Asak/VdH will deliver that in spades!

I'm a bit of a clumsy oaf, so I will be guided by your own experience of 'nuding' the Asak and not bother. :)

Unless Van den Hul was a bit enthusiastic with the glue when refitting the outer body, I found on mine the thin outer shell simply slipped off quite easily. Personally I would not advise exposing the magnets to the elements, as they can quickly become covered with metallic detritus which is impossible to remove.

As to the sound, the Asak is 'punchy' with good clarity and focus, but I wasn't 'engaged' or involved in the music so much as I am when using either an EMT, Ortofon SPU, or Denon.

By the way, the Asak likes to be loaded with 390 Ohm (+ 7.5nF). I think I used 2.2g VTF and 2.0g bias (used with an SME 3009 arm with light damping).

[YNWaN]

It doesn't look like the re-tip was very recent Jerry and I see the seller doesn't make any kind of commitment as to how much use the cartridge has had. If it sounds a bit flat and lifeless I would say the stylus is shot (fingers crossed though).

[jandl100]

Thanks again, Barry - with my present phonostage I can dial in 250 Ohms, close enough for government work? (50, 100, 250 and 1000 Ohms selectable).
It's also got a healthy 70dB gain on mc, so should be OK for the Asak's lowish output.

I have seen varied recommendations for vtf, 1.6g upwards. Just try it and see I guess, although for most carts I seem happiest around the 2.0g mark.

[jandl100]

It doesn't look like the re-tip was very recent Jerry and I see the seller doesn't make any kind of commitment as to how much use the cartridge has had. If it sounds a bit flat and lifeless I would say the stylus is shot (fingers crossed though).

Yep, noted, Mark.

I'll see how it goes - the listing gives a refund promise for BIN sales, which this was.

From Barry's sonic description, it should sound lively.

[jandl100]

She's arrived! :)

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF6075_zps70ae8f64.jpg (http://s262.photobucket.com/user/jandl100/media/DSCF6075_zps70ae8f64.jpg.html)

A bit of a booger to set up :

Non-standard pin size :doh: - why? :rolleyes: - necessitating 4 gentle squeezes with needle-nose pliers
& what a shallow cartridge this is! - a couple of spacers twixt cart and headshell needed and arm height at minimum.

But, the sound - well, initial thoughts - really pleasing. Exceptional midrange clarity and very quick and clean on transients. Powerful dynamics with good heft in the upper bass. Very fine 3D imaging.

The low output (0.2mV?) does challenge my phonostage a bit even with its 70dB gain on MC with a bit of hum starting to creep in when the wick needs turning up. It's acceptable, but I do also have an active gain doodad I could try which might sort the issue completely.

Overall the effect is definitely "yummy" !

Seems to track AOK on music, so whipped my Hifi Sound test LP out and it tracks the lower level modulation grooves fine (12 dB lateral and 8dB vertical) at 2g, and loses it a bit on the higher level tracks, but just a bit of tizz, not gross.
My current feeling is that the stylus is in decent condition and it's a great cart! Fingers crossed - much more music to play. :)

Does this make me a Flat Earther? :eek: :lol:

[Barry]

Glad to hear it's working well Jerry.

I should have mentioned the shallow cartridge body - I too had to use a couple of 2mm spacers between the cartridge and headshell (an ADC), in order to prevent the back of the headshell grounding.

What VTF are you using?

Flat Earther? Well you haven't mentioned PRAT yet! :lol:

[jandl100]

VTF just a tad over 2g, Barry, and bias at the 2g setting as well.

[jandl100]

Quite a few hours put on the wee beastie last night, very varied fare - CDs didn't get a look in, and nor did a couple of new power cables collected at the Brizzle Show! - the VdH-Asak didn't miss a beat - I reckon it's AOK and my initial instinct to go for it was a good one.
Phew! :cool:

Excellent transparency and detail, and a huge sense of musical enthusiasm - perhaps something like a grown up DL-103?

Hmm ... I wonder what the carts further up the Linn range sound like? :hmm: :eyebrows: .. although I think these are really Supex 1000? :scratch:

[Barry]

Quite a few hours put on the wee beastie last night, very varied fare - CDs didn't get a look in, and nor did a couple of new power cables collected at the Brizzle Show! - the VdH-Asak didn't miss a beat - I reckon it's AOK and my initial instinct to go for it was a good one.
Phew! :cool:

Excellent transparency and detail, and a huge sense of musical enthusiasm - perhaps something like a grown up DL-103?

Hmm ... I wonder what the carts further up the Linn range sound like? :hmm: :eyebrows: .. although I think these are really Supex 1000? :scratch:

The origin of the Linn Asak is a bit of a mystery. It was designed by Supex against a specification supplied by Linn, but it is not at all clear the design was manufactured by Supex. (Linn imported the Supex SD900 for use in the Grace 707 arm - so Supex would have been their first port of call.)

I spent a fair amount of time surfing the web trying to find who made the Linn Asak, but got nowhere. Not even members of the Linn user's own web site have any idea. To some extent it is academic since Supex, like Grace, are no longer in business.

As for the sound - well it looks as though you have landed a "good 'un" Jerry, though it must be remembered the Van den Hul stylus profile could have made a substantial difference to the sound over the original Ogura profile tip.

Don't you just love it when a plan comes together? For my part I'm enjoying the Ashkenazy Beethoven piano concertos you sold me - fabulous!

Cheers

[walpurgis]

My recollection is hazy, but isn't the Asak basically a rebodied Osawa OS series MC?

Osawa and Supex MCs had much in common if I'm correct.

[Barry]

My recollection is hazy, but isn't the Asak basically a rebodied Osawa OS series MC?

Osawa and Supex MCs had much in common if I'm correct.

I heard that speculation - but could find no information about the Osawa OS series, to either confirm or dismiss the claim.

[walpurgis]

I owned a Supex SD-900 and an Osawa OS-60L and they certainly sounded rather similar.

[Marco]

Nice acquisition, Jerry :)

Back in the early 80s, I had a Linn Trak (on my then Ariston RD-11S/Linn LV V), which was housed in the same style body-shell as your Asak, although blue, and had a very similar sound to what you describe - and it could boogie, too!

The results of re-tips can often be a bit of a lottery, but it seems that the one performed on your cartridge has been successful. I guess that to hear the Asak at its best, the use a decent SUT or head amp, into the MM setting of your phono stage would be very beneficial. That would certainly sort out any issues you have with gain.

If you decide that the Asak is a keeper (well, at least for a while :eyebrows:), then see if you can source a Lentek head amp (usually obtainable secondhand for around £80), which works wonderfully well with all Supex-made Linn MCs, such as the Asak, as well as the DL-103 - and you’ll be stunned at the results you’ll get!

Enjoy :cool:

Marco.

[DSJR]

if I can remember, Supex did a model called the SDX2000, upon which the Asak looks to have been based. The plastic body was slightly different and the Asak had a Vital tip, but I understand there were many similarities and to my knowledge, the Asak WAS made by Supex. Linn wanted to take the design a little further and by removing the metal can and adding an amount of araldite type adhesive between the magnets and top, to act as damping (and then replacing the can), the Asak T was born. All the best measuring Asaks became the 'T' and the ones just out of spec became the 'Trak.'

A friend of mine had an Asak which he sent to VDH in the early 80's to be re-tipped. On return, the sound was pretty awful through his Naim/'Brik system I remember (bear with me for a minute). The sound as fitted was harsh, gritty and rather tuneless and I think Koetsu Red went in instead for a while before a Troika eventually. had we given the VDH more time to bed in, things might have been different, but these initial impressions just served to magnify the Asak's failings - a shallow soundstage and occasional one-note treble on good jazz recordings. The Asak could never play choral or close-miked piano very well in a LP12/Ittok combination, as mistracking was a big problem at the time.

Jerry, your example is over thirty years old and things may well have changed inside over this time. It's not in a mid 80's LP12 either, so I suspect the results you're getting may well be totally opposite to mine, when the thing had just been done. I wonder if it's the same sample, as my pal sold it quite quickly after getting it back?

[hifi_dave]

Osawa had a range of 3 MCs, all with a similar layout to the Asak which appeared sometime later. The Osawa cartridges had a more substantial construction with their entry level being similar in spec to the Asak, which was more expensive. We used to sell the Osawa cartridges and Nagaoka which were distributed in the UK by the same company.

[jandl100]

Interesting comments all, thanks folks. :)

Yup, Marco, the gain issue has been sorted by using the active device previously hinted at ... in fact it's an ancient A&R Cambridge HA10 mc stepup. Belay the scoff ;) ... I've had it head to head with a couple of lower cost SUTs including a Denon something-or-other and it beat 'em! :)
But I'll look out for a Lentek, thanks for the tip.

Using the A&R HA10 into the mm input on my Jasmine phonostage and a very dynamic and clear sound results. Nice. & no hum. I'm really enjoying it .... I'll carry on for a few days and then swap back to my Orty MC25FL .... I have a feeling the Orty will come out of the comparison a little worse for wear, but we'll see.

[jandl100]

... For my part I'm enjoying the Ashkenazy Beethoven piano concertos you sold me - fabulous!

Cheers

Thanks for that, Barry. Good to hear you are enjoying it. :thumbsup:

If I didn't have an identical set in my own collection already, I'd have kept the one you bought!

[walpurgis]

I'll carry on for a few days and then swap back to my Orty MC25FL .... I have a feeling the Orty will come out of the comparison a little worse for wear, but we'll see.

I'm not sure about that. The MC25FL is a rich, vibrant sounding MC. I have one in my collection and the Asak will have to go some to better it.

[jandl100]

I agree, Geoff - I really love what the MC25FL does, I'm on my 3rd! It's my fave cart up 'til now, and I've had a few to say the least -- but the VdH-tipped Asak is mighty fine, too. :)

[walpurgis]

I really love what the MC25FL does

If that's the case, you really ought to try a ZYX R50 Bloom. It gives the same sort of lucidity, but more of everything, with a huge soundstage, bags of body and it's cleaner at the top (yes, I've got one of those too).

[Audio Al]

Nice Cart for RED NOSE DAY :D

[jandl100]

Nice Cart for RED NOSE DAY :D

:lol: