View Full Version : Once you have Black you never go back........
Cadanza Black in da house!:yay::yesbruv::yay:
got it on yet Andy?
Oh yeah.....:christmas:
Wakefield Turntables
17-02-2015, 21:24
How you finding your BBC?
My BBC is fine dunno about the Cadanza Black mind......:lol:
Very promising, only played a couple of LP's thus far, it is a tad lean, bass light and occasionally toppy, though l am certain these will go, will have a proper listen in the morning, stay tuned.:D
Very promising, very promising indeed.;)
There are cartridges and then there are cartridges....:lol:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-E2eEmIYAEsjsi.jpg
RobbieGong
17-02-2015, 22:30
Cadanza Black in da house!:yay::yesbruv::yay:
You're a lucky sod ! not that I'm envious :D
Clive197
17-02-2015, 22:38
My BBC is fine dunno about the Cadanza Black mind......:lol:
Very promising, only played a couple of LP's thus far, it is a tad lean, bass light and occasionally toppy, though l am certain these will go, will have a proper listen in the morning, stay tuned.:D
Very promising, very promising indeed.;)
DONT PANIC, mine took about thirty hours to completely settle down.
Gary;s Dynavector was the same and now sounds the business
walpurgis
17-02-2015, 23:28
My ZYX R100 H2 took at least 30 hours to 'come on song' properly and is getting better & better as it is used.
(that seems to apply to some electronics too. Graham Slee phono stages definitely improve with use)
Audio Al
18-02-2015, 06:00
Fingers crossed for you M rAndy :)
Fingers crossed for you M rAndy :)
Cheer Al.:)
My dealer who fitted The Black told me start your serious listening next week.......:eek:
jandl100
18-02-2015, 08:17
Just did a Google - £1750 ?!?!?!? :wowzer:
Fook - it had better be good! :lol:
Just did a Google - £1750 ?!?!?!? :wowzer:
Fook - it had better be good! :lol:
It is not what you know Jerry- rather who you know........ agree a lot of Wonga.
jandl100
18-02-2015, 08:31
Yep, shame you're not getting the best out of it, though, Andy :( --- I mean, if you still had your old Cambridge 540 phonostage then you'd really be getting there! :eyebrows:
No, seriously, best of luck with it - I feel sure you will be over t'moon in a week or so.
Andy in a week or so ==> :yay:
Just watch out for the old woolly jumper trick .... ;)
Yep, shame you're not getting the best out of it, though, Andy :( --- I mean, if you still had your old Cambridge 540 phonostage then you'd really be getting there! :eyebrows:
No, seriously, best of luck with it - I feel sure you will be over t'moon in a week or so.
Andy in a week or so ==> :yay:
Just watch out for the old woolly jumper trick .... ;)
Lol will do Jerry.:eek:
jandl100
18-02-2015, 09:08
Aha - I've just spotted a thread "elsewhere on the web" - so you got a cheap 'up' deal from an unobtainium Cadenza Bronze? :eek: Way to go! :thumbsup:
--- and btw - it's got an e in the middle, not an a. ;) ... Cadanza Bleck ... :scratch:
:lol:
Wakefield Turntables
18-02-2015, 11:03
BBC = big black cartridge :D
Bass sis should not be lean and it should not sound toppy. I think I track mine at 2.2g, they are VERY sensitive to VTF and arm shaft needs to be parallel. It took me about a week to get mine set to how I like it.
BBC = big black cartridge :D
Bass sis should not be lean and it should not sound toppy. I think I track mine at 2.2g, they are VERY sensitive to VTF and arm shaft needs to be parallel. It took me about a week to get mine set to how I like it.
That is where mine is also Andy.:)
Audio Al
18-02-2015, 11:25
Just watch out for the old woolly jumper trick
OR the HUGO trick ;)
Just watch out for the old woolly jumper trick
OR the HUGO trick ;)
Oh Bother forgot about him. :doh:
Joking apart the cantilever is long and thin...........:rolleyes:
Audio Al
18-02-2015, 11:39
Joking apart the cantilever is long and thin...........:rolleyes:
And not bent yet :eek: Treat with the GREATEST respect ;)
And not bent yet :eek: Treat with the GREATEST respect ;)
Will do Mr Al- thanks for the heads up, when you coming round? For your Virgin listen?:eyebrows:
Audio Al
18-02-2015, 12:25
Give me options ?
Days and times and I will fit in a listen :)
Ammonite Audio
18-02-2015, 13:18
Just watch out for the old woolly jumper trick
OR the HUGO trick ;)
:scratch:
:scratch:
The puppy from hell- or ' The beast of Beverley':)
Ammonite Audio
18-02-2015, 18:36
Ah! :)
3-4 Hours on the Black ( been doing more important things:cool:;) and it sounds unbelievably smooth, fast and detailed, surface noise is very low indeed, and very refined!, not a massive soundstage but good depth, bass still lean ( as is the sound in general) and cartridge is changing a bit in sound, sounding a tad murky now:scratch:- one thing of a slight concern is it is not overly involving but as l said early doors yet.
jandl100
19-02-2015, 07:37
Andy, I forget - what carts have you had in the past?
What was the Cadenza Black's predecessor?
Andy, I forget - what carts have you had in the past?
What was the Cadenza Black's predecessor?
Denon DL103- Now that could boogie!
jandl100
19-02-2015, 07:52
Ah. A 103. Great cart!
Well, I've never heard the Cadenza range, but have enjoyed quite a few Ortys in my time - including a MC30 Super, a Rondo Bronze and my current MC25FL.
I've never heard any Orty as upmarket as your Cadenza Black, but going by my experience further down the ladder, if you are after the same sort of rambunctious musical enthusiasm (involvement?) as the 103 then that's not really what Ortys are about, ime and imo.
You may have to enjoy it for what I suspect it is - a superbly accurate and realistically musical transducer. :cool: You may have to retune your lugholes a bit, Andy. ;)
Ah. A 103. Great cart!
Well, I've never heard the Cadenza range, but have enjoyed quite a few Ortys in my time - including a MC30 Super, a Rondo Bronze and my current MC25FL.
I've never heard any Orty as upmarket as your Cadenza Black, but going by my experience further down the ladder, if you are after the same sort of rambunctious musical enthusiasm (involvement?) as the 103 then that's not really what Ortys are about, ime and imo.
You may have to enjoy it for what I suspect it is - a superbly accurate and realistically musical transducer. :cool: You may have to retune your lugholes a bit, Andy. ;)
l want music Jerry!:)
As l said early doors yet.:lol:
Audio Al
19-02-2015, 08:56
3-4 Hours on the Black ( been doing more important things:cool:;) and it sounds unbelievably smooth, fast and detailed, surface noise is very low indeed, and very refined!, not a massive soundstage but good depth, bass still lean ( as is the sound in general) and cartridge is changing a bit in sound, sounding a tad murky now:scratch:- one thing of a slight concern is it is not overly involving but as l said early doors yet.
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popc orn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:: popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popco rn:
The Black Adder
19-02-2015, 09:07
Cadanza Black in da house!:yay::yesbruv::yay:
Drum and bass!... Ribby-dibby-doo-da-day!
Drum and bass!... Ribby-dibby-doo-da-day!
:eek:
3-4 Hours on the Black ( been doing more important things:cool:;) and it sounds unbelievably smooth, fast and detailed, surface noise is very low indeed, and very refined!, not a massive soundstage but good depth, bass still lean ( as is the sound in general) and cartridge is changing a bit in sound, sounding a tad murky now:scratch:- one thing of a slight concern is it is not overly involving but as l said early doors yet.
Mmmm.... Remember what I warned you about, daftee, and how I described the Black? You wouldn't have been saying those things about the Bronze! ;)
However, I do hope you grow to like the Black, Andy, and that it hits the spot enough for you to live with it :)
Marco.
Mmmm.... Remember what I warned you about, daftee, and how I described the Black? You wouldn't have been saying those things about the Bronze! ;)
However, I do hope you grow to like the Black, Andy, and that it hits the spot enough for you to live with it :)
Marco.
Thanks Marco, as you say l really wanted the Bronze, however the Black is BRAND SPANKING NEW, so not panicking just yet, l can here greatness in this cartridge at times, will start fannying around with set up and loading around the 50hr mark, l have invested too much DITHERING and Wonga for this to go wrong:lol: a case in point being the SONY 770ES amplifier l brought which l blooming hated at first but with a little thought l got to work really well, back to the Black, one thing l did not want was a bright or unmusical sound, the Black ( so far) sounds incredibly smooth and refined and quite musical but the fun ( and magic hopefully is) still to come and as already stated the dealer told me to;" not listen to it seriously until next week"- whatever that means.:)
Wakefield Turntables
19-02-2015, 20:29
Just a couple of things.
Your deck is known to produce a wide soundstage. The Black is also well known to produce an accurate intimate soundstage which very accurately places musicians where they should be. You need to set the things up properly otherwise your not going to get the best out of it. Some of your problems may stem from the fact that it might not be set up properly. Surface noise should be very quiet, so at least that's on a par with mine. I'm a little worried with regards you finding the cartridge lean and lacking in bass. I don't know if your deck is known for producing large amounts of bass but the SME V certainly is. My 1210, V, balck setup produce the best bass I have ever heard. I just hope you get the best from your cart.
A
RobbieGong
19-02-2015, 21:39
Yes, Set up will be absolutely crucial if its Shibata sibling the 2M Black is anything to go by ime. You'll need to get all the related aspects right, after which I carefully and slowly set vta on the fly. Once you hit that sweet spot you'll be in heaven :)
Robbie, Clive ( or any other Black owners) how is your arm set up on your T/T 's and what ladings on your phono stages?:)
Clive197
20-02-2015, 07:21
Hi Andy
My Black is set up as per spec. 2.3g, arm parallel with a loading of 100Ohm set on my Aria. I love to listen to Modern Jazz, I.e. Return To Forever, Herbie Hancock, Stanley Clarke and Billy Chobham with quite a lot of The Crusaders amongst others. I also listen to a lot of 60's R&B. My cartridge once it settled down has all the traits you and everyone else describe with really musical bass thrown into the mix. To my ears the Black can boogie but with real finesse.
Clive
Wakefield Turntables
20-02-2015, 10:06
My Black is setup
Arm = Parallel
Tracking = 2.2g
Antiskate = 2.2g
Thanks chaps, after work tonight l put the Black on a lower gain setting and this improved things a bit, still sounding a bit dull if l honest will investigate further over the weekend,
BTW Arm is parallel, Tracking force 2.2g Anti- skate 2.2.:)
RobbieGong
20-02-2015, 20:33
Thanks chaps, after work tonight l put the Black on a lower gain setting and this improved things a bit, still sounding a bit dull if l honest will investigate further over the weekend,
BTW Arm is parallel, Tracking force 2.2g Anti- skate 2.2.:)
Make sure headshell is initially nice and horizontal side on. Also that bottom of cart is nice and horizontal / parallel with record surface as a guide, front on. Then Carefully adjust vta as that can make all the difference, particularly with the Shibatas which are known to be a PITA / fiddly to get right. I and others have most certainly found this to be the case with the 2M black which as you know shares the same Shibata stylus profile. I'm also assuming you are happy with your protractor set up ? BTW - Dont rush or worry, arm / cart set up can and should take time but it will most definitely be worth all the hassle. ;) P.S - I tend to go slightly less on the antiskate in comparison to tracking force and as opposed to the usual equal as a general.
Wakefield Turntables
20-02-2015, 21:53
Andy which tracking alignment are you using? I use Baerweld (SIC :scratch:).
Not sure if i can help here but the 2M Black does indeed have same stylus profile and I found that if the arm was dropped to much at the back below parallel to the platter it can definitely loose top end air and detail.
Ideal VTA was just a little lower at the back than parallel.
Not sure if i can help here but the 2M Black does indeed have same stylus profile and I found that if the arm was dropped to much at the back below parallel to the platter it can definitely loose top end air and detail.
Ideal VTA was just a little lower at the back than parallel.
Will try this James when my hands have stopped shaking.:)
Andy which tracking alignment are you using? I use Baerweld (SIC :scratch:).
Andy, the dealer set the Black up and have not checked/ changed anything yet, except gain setting on my Dino.
Cadanza Black blog day; Whatever
Things are slowly moving for the better;
1.Changed my Sensation M901/ JT Dynamic PSU to my Sensation M451/ Battery PSU- Purer and not so forward sound. Tick.
2. Changed loading settings on the Dino+ from 1000ohms to 100ohms thanks Clive!)- a lot bigger and tad more musical sound. Tick.
This is a revealing cartridge! The amplifier could be heard in no uncertain terms:rolleyes:
Slowly ( very slowly maybe getting there- l hope.:)
More to follow.......
Sorry, dude, but I have to be honest - and much as I want you to like it, as much as I know YOU want to like it, it’s obvious to me that the Black isn’t really doing it for you, and all you’re doing is papering over the cracks and delaying the inevitable.
However, I hope I’m wrong (as I want you to be happy), but if I’m not, at some point soon you’re going to have to admit to yourself that you’ve made a mistake….. Apologies, but I felt that it had to be said.
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
23-02-2015, 20:30
Glad to hear that things are improving.
This is a revealing cartridge! The amplifier could be heard in no uncertain terms:rolleyes:
.
Care to expand, I don't get what you mean? The Black has the unfortunate ability of showing very poor quality vinyl/recordings. We did say that it's very forsenic and analytical ;) The Black is perhaps the best transcribing tool that I have heard of telling you exactly what's on your vinyl (for good or bad).
That would be a Koetsu Black then?
Glad to hear that things are improving.
Care to expand, I don't get what you mean? The Black has the unfortunate ability of showing very poor quality vinyl/recordings. We did say that it's very forsenic and analytical ;) The Black is perhaps the best transcribing tool that I have heard of telling you exactly what's on your vinyl (for good or bad).
Yes, it was easy to hear what amplifier l was listening to, and how different they sounded to each other.
Sorry, dude, but I have to be honest - and much as I want you to like it, as much as I know YOU want to like it, it’s obvious to me that the Black isn’t really doing it for you, and all you’re doing is papering over the cracks and delaying the inevitable.
However, I hope I’m wrong (as I want you to be happy), but if I’m not, at some point soon you’re going to have to admit to yourself that you’ve made a mistake….. Apologies, but I felt that it had to be said.
Marco.
Is that aimed at my good self Marco?:scratch:
walpurgis
23-02-2015, 21:40
That would be a Koetsu Black then?
Nice one. ;)
RobbieGong
23-02-2015, 21:43
Glad to hear that things are improving.
Care to expand, I don't get what you mean? The Black has the unfortunate ability of showing very poor quality vinyl/recordings. We did say that it's very forsenic and analytical ;) The Black is perhaps the best transcribing tool that I have heard of telling you exactly what's on your vinyl (for good or bad).
I have to agree because this is exactly what I got from my Black when I had set it up carefully, meticulously and properly - it was a revelation ! The first time I'd really genuinely heard my system / cart translating back what is and not a glossed over version of it. No overt boogying, no signature of fruity or ripe flavour or other characteristics out there. The honesty / accuracy was so apparent with each and every recording sounding individual and not like every other. Add separation of parts, air, natural / realistic 3D texture to horns, piano strings and vocals, lovely mids and musicality. I can only imagine that the Cadenza does this with even more resolve and filigree insight. If it's not what you're ears have become 'tuned' to ie: you've got used to sugar in the coffee or sauce on the steak then it might not be for you. Having had it, there's no other presentation for me. I sincerely hope that Andy has it set up right and gets to appreciate what a cart of this calibre can do. Big bless Rob :)
Carrying on with the warts and all presentation of the Black, l have brought some knackered records lately and have washed them on the VPI and they come up very quiet and the tracking ability on this cartridge is world class.:)
walpurgis
23-02-2015, 21:50
This may be stating the obvious, but I've tamed a rather 'in yer face' source in the past by using Cardas or Audio Note cabling on the phono side of things.
Wakefield Turntables
23-02-2015, 22:11
That would be a Koetsu Black then?
I own a Koetsu black and it's not even in the same league as the Cadenza black. Koetsu is more conference league verses ortofon premier league.
I have to agree because this is exactly what I got from my Black when I had set it up carefully, meticulously and properly - it was a revelation ! The first time I'd really genuinely heard my system / cart translating back what is and not a glossed over version of it. No overt boogying, no signature of fruity or ripe flavour or other characteristics out there. The honesty / accuracy was so apparent with each and every recording sounding individual and not like every other. Add separation of parts, air, natural / realistic 3D texture to horns, piano strings and vocals, lovely mids and musicality. I can only imagine that the Cadenza does this with even more resolve and filigree insight. If it's not what you're ears have become 'tuned' to ie: you've got used to sugar in the coffee or sauce on the steak then it might not be for you. Having had it, there's no other presentation for me. I sincerely hope that Andy has it set up right and gets to appreciate what a cart of this calibre can do. Big bless Rob :)
+1
Carrying on with the warts and all presentation of the Black, l have brought some knackered records lately and have washed them on the VPI and they come up very quiet and the tracking ability on this cartridge is world class.:)
Tracking ability is superb, even beats the old Shure V15 mk3 :lol:
This may be stating the obvious, but I've tamed a rather 'in yer face' source in the past by using Cardas or Audio Note cabling on the phono side of things.
NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Andy is struggling getting the cart sounding as it should, why complete things with cabling?
walpurgis
23-02-2015, 22:18
NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Andy is struggling getting the cart sounding as it should, why complete things with cabling?
Did you mean 'complicate'? In any case, who's to say that the current system setup suits the cartridge?
RobbieGong
23-02-2015, 22:36
Did you mean 'complicate'? In any case, who's to say that the current system setup suits the cartridge?
My gut instinct tells me I really don't think that's the problem....
walpurgis
23-02-2015, 22:39
My gut instinct tells me I really don't think that's the problem....
That may be the case, but it's worth taking every aspect into account.
walpurgis
23-02-2015, 22:45
I own a Koetsu black and it's not even in the same league as the Cadenza black. Koetsu is more conference league verses ortofon premier league.
I believe that was intended as a joke.
Is that aimed at my good self Marco?:scratch:
Of course, daftee. Who did you think! ;)
Like I said, I just have to be honest with you, as you’re coming across as someone who’s desperately trying to like something he’s just paid a lot of money for, and thus justify the purchase, when deep down the truth is rather different….
Marco.
Clive197
24-02-2015, 00:02
PATIENCE Andy, it WILL come to you. Don't force it, as I have said before it will take at least 30 hrs but will carry on improving (slowly) for about 100 hrs.
PATIENCE Andy, it WILL come to you. Don't force it, as I have said before it will take at least 30 hrs but will carry on improving (slowly) for about 100 hrs.
Yep. Gary's Dynav did the same. it now sounds awesome.
walpurgis
24-02-2015, 00:16
PATIENCE Andy, it WILL come to you. Don't force it, as I have said before it will take at least 30 hrs but will carry on improving (slowly) for about 100 hrs.
Exactly.
I've had new MCs sound thin and 'straggly' for a couple of weeks, then it all starts coming together.
I have previously taken good care to set up my TT carefully. But there is 'careful' and there is 'careful'. On my last outing I went 'all-in'. Ensured the platform was horizontal - not 99%. 100.0%. Platter 100% horizontal. Azimuth 100% horizontal. (VTA not so sure as I don't have the required optical equipment, but the arm is 100.0 % horizontal. Actually SRA - Stylus Rake Angle - is even more critical). I found that if you are absolutely scrupulous then: Ding! Wow! where did that free upgrade come from? I can see from quite a few earlier posts that you have been urged to check setup. What I am saying is that in my experience it is worth the trouble. My cart is a Benz Wood and I don't think it has a stylus sculptured as is yours and so I think detailed set-up is even more important for you. As part of the setup I suggest you borrow a fozgometer. I don't have one but I was present when a dealer set up my former Benz Ace with one, and yes it helped.
jandl100
24-02-2015, 07:25
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/53219408.jpg
I think you will end up happy, Andy.
It will be a combination of the Cadenza Black running in and the overall process retuning your ears to appreciate a more accurate sound. :) Your old Denon 103 is fun (I love them!) but accuracy is not its first priority.
... and as folks have hinted, don't just trust the dealer to have done the setup 100% properly. ;) Check it yourself. I've no idea who it was (and sorry guys if it was someone here), but some dealers are good and others are ..... :whistle:
RobbieGong
24-02-2015, 07:26
I have previously taken good care to set up my TT carefully. But there is 'careful' and there is 'careful'. On my last outing I went 'all-in'. Ensured the platform was horizontal - not 99%. 100.0%. Platter 100% horizontal. Azimuth 100% horizontal. (VTA not so sure as I don't have the required optical equipment, but the arm is 100.0 % horizontal. Actually SRA - Stylus Rake Angle - is even more critical). I found that if you are absolutely scrupulous then: Ding! Wow! where did that free upgrade come from? I can see from quite a few earlier posts that you have been urged to check setup. What I am saying is that in my experience it is worth the trouble. My cart is a Benz Wood and I don't think it has a stylus sculptured as is yours and so I think detailed set-up is even more important for you. As part of the setup I suggest you borrow a fozgometer. I don't have one but I was present when a dealer set up my former Benz Ace with one, and yes it helped.
+1 :thumbsup: Yep and then as Jerry says above :)
Your old Denon 103 is fun (I love them!) but accuracy is not its first priority.
That’s not my experience, Jerry. Accurate to what? A faithful rendition of real instruments and voices, or what today is often (wrongly, IMO) perceived as ‘accuracy’? That subject has also been touched upon in the Wharfdale Denton thread, and it applies here, too.
When I spin records on my DL-103 (or SPU, for that matter), I don’t do it to obtain an ‘inaccurate’ or euphonic sound; I do it because they make recorded music sound as lifelike as possible, and above all FUN/engaging to listen to (just like music is when you hear it live), in a way that no modern cartridges I’ve heard can replicate.
In that respect, I can assure you that if the 103 sounded in my system, as you’re intimating it did in yours, then I wouldn’t use it - it’s as simple as that.
Therefore, much as I hate putting a downer on Andy’s new toy, he’s giving out signals that suggest strongly to me he can also hear what I’ve referred to above, and it’s what I warned him about when he was contemplating the purchase. That said, if it’s simply a running-in issue, and in due course all will be sweetness and light with the Cadenza Black, then no one will be happier for him than me :)
Marco.
jandl100
24-02-2015, 08:58
Accurate to what? - accurate to a plausible rendition of the recorded music.
I think there are a lot more 'accurate' cartridges out there - but the 103 has its place. It sacrifices dynamic and tonal accuracy to provide a taste of the liveliness and excitement of higher cost designs. It does it well, but it still isn't that accurate taken in the round, imo.
An Ortofon of similar cost is more 'accurate' in many ways, but they tend to tonal starkness and lack the bubbly sense of fun that the 103 can convey by its artful manipulation of the sound.
That's just my opinion and experience and I'm happy to differ with you, though. :)
Wakefield Turntables
24-02-2015, 08:58
Did you mean 'complicate'? In any case, who's to say that the current system setup suits the cartridge?
Yeah the ipad predictive text beat me.
I believe that was intended as a joke.
oh!
jandl100
24-02-2015, 09:03
PS - I've not been following the Denton thread you mention, Marco, so apologies if I'm just rehashing stuff already covered.
Accurate to what? - accurate to a plausible rendition of the recorded music.
I think there are a lot more 'accurate' cartridges out there - but the 103 has its place. It sacrifices dynamic and tonal accuracy to provide a taste of the liveliness and excitement of higher cost designs. It does it well, but it still isn't that accurate taken in the round, imo.
An Ortofon of similar cost is more 'accurate' in many ways, but they tend to tonal starkness and lack the bubbly sense of fun that the 103 can convey by its artful manipulation of the sound.
That's just my opinion and experience and I'm happy to differ with you, though. :)
We don’t necessarily differ, Jerry, it’s simply that I’d have put it a little differently.
The ‘fashion' now, if we can call it that, is to voice modern hi-fi equipment (and I include cartridges in this) so that it sounds ‘bright and breezy’ and uber-detailed, at the expense of body/weight, tone and timbre [what the 103 excels at] - and it isn't something that’s fundamentally more accurate to the sound of real instruments and voices; it’s simply the adopting of a different set of compromises, and in that sense, the Cadenza Black is no more ‘accurate’ than the 103, in the areas where compromises have been made, in order for it to do what it does well.
Marco.
PS - I've not been following the Denton thread you mention, Marco, so apologies if I'm just rehashing stuff already covered.
See here, from page 4 onwards, noting my comments about ‘voicing' and those from others responding to them: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?36718-Wharfedale-Denton-80th-Anniversary-speakers/page4
Marco.
jandl100
24-02-2015, 09:17
Well, I'd hope that compromises reduce as the price goes up. Or at least the overall effect improves - whatever improves means!
I suspect what I said previously is why the 103 is such a marmite device.
As you say, everything has compromises - but the 103 seems to me to be a fairly extreme example - you get a real taste of the 'presence' of the music with the 103 that you have to pay £bundles to achieve in a more 'balanced' design.
Some folks are happy to live with (or don't even notice) the compromises (inaccuracies) that then ensue, while other folks (with different priorities) find them unacceptable. Hence the 103 tends to be a love it or hate it design.
Well, I'd hope that compromises reduce as the price goes up. Or at least the overall effect improves - whatever improves means!
Sometimes that’s the case, but often these days in ‘high-end audio’ what you’re paying for isn’t related to maximising sonic performance. We’ve lost our way (and gone backwards more than forwards) in so many areas of audio that it’s frightening - and one only realises that when listening to the best of the vintage gear that’s available, where what’s wrong with the sound of much of today’s kit becomes readily apparent.
I could provide many examples of that, but the one which is most pertinent here is the recent selling of my top-of-the-range Ortofon SPU Royal GM - £1600’s worth (new), fitted with the ‘poshest’ stylus known to man, and it’s replacing with an (£800) 56-year old original SPU-G/T, fitted with (supposedly) an ‘old nail’ of a conical stylus...
I don’t wish to drift too much here on Andy’s thread, but I can say quite categorically that it’s newer brother isn’t fundamentally superior overall, but rather in significant areas, notably inferior, so what does that tell you about compromises reducing as the price goes up - or about genuine progress being made today? ;)
Unfortunately for Andy, there are shades of that issue relevant to him, when comparing a DL-103 with a Cadenza Black. The danger in this hobby is getting into the mindset that newer/more expensive = automatically better, as that simply isn’t the case.
As you say, everything has compromises - but the 103 seems to me to be a fairly extreme example - you get a real taste of the 'presence' of the music with the 103 that you have to pay £bundles to achieve in a more 'balanced' design.
Some folks are happy to live with (or don't even notice) the compromises (inaccuracies) that then ensue, while other folks (with different priorities) find them unacceptable. Hence the 103 tends to be a love it or hate it design.
Sure [notwithstanding the need to fully optimise a 103, in order to hear it properly, which is an old story], as long as the concept of compromise is recognised and mistakes aren't made thinking that because one cartridge sounds brighter and more detailed than another, it’s automatically overall more ‘accurate’.
It isn't - and *that* is what I’m getting at here :)
Marco.
Andy, I’m surprised that you haven’t commented on any of this…. How are you getting on now with the Black?
:popcorn: :popcorn:
Marco.
Audio Al
25-02-2015, 10:04
I would think he is continuing the running in process ;)
Andy, I’m surprised that you haven’t commented on any of this…. How are you getting on now with the Black?
:popcorn: :popcorn:
Marco.
Alright Marco, things have slowed down a bit regarding playing of the Black ( due to new employment etc) managed to get an LP in last night ( Johnny Cash's greatest hits and again you marvel at how good this cartridge is technically, but with a tad more musicality, so now have around 12- 15 hours on it so, will get time tonight play more LP's, one thing l thought l noticed last night was the tail end of the SME V looked a smidgen high, will try and measure it tonight......... Stay tuned.
I would think he is continuing the running in process ;)
You coming round the weekend Al?
Alright Marco, things have slowed down a bit regarding playing of the Black ( due to new employment etc) managed to get an LP in last night ( Johnny Cash's greatest hits and again you marvel at how good this cartridge is technically, but with a tad more musicality, so now have around 12- 15 hours on it so, will get time tonight play more LP's, one thing l thought l noticed last night was the tail end of the SME V looked a smidgen high, will try and measure it tonight......... Stay tuned.
No worries, dude. Nice one :)
The only advice I’d give you now is, in the final analysis, once the cartridge is fully run in and you feel that you know exactly what it’s doing, be honest with yourself, and don’t be afraid to admit making a mistake *if* that should turn out to be the case.
Better to hold your hands up now and admit you’ve made a boo-boo buying the Black (and take steps to address that situation), than kidding yourself on that it’s exactly what you want, struggling with a sound you don’t really like, and it affecting your enjoyment of music - or worse still - making changes to your system [one which you are satisfied with], which weren’t necessary, simply to try and turn the Black into something it isn’t.
The latter could lead to a whole world of long-term system dissatisfaction and chasing a sound you’re never going to achieve….
That said, I really do hope it works out well and that the Caddy Black is the one to put a big grin on your chops every time you spin you’re favourite choons! :cool:
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
25-02-2015, 11:51
Andy it's nice to hear that things are still improving tbh you need another 15 hours on that cart. The V and the black are a fantastic combo and I remember being in the same position that your in now. I spent a LONG time getting the arm height perfectly parallel in fact it drove me insane but it will be worth it when you hit the correct setup.
The Barbarian
25-02-2015, 11:53
be honest with yourself
If some people were to do that they would not have the equipment they do have :D
If some people were to do that they would not have the equipment they do have :D
Absolutely... Too many 'audiophiles', when it comes to how good they *think* their systems sound, are in a perpetual state of denial! ;)
Marco.
The Barbarian
25-02-2015, 12:13
:D
Andy it's nice to hear that things are still improving tbh you need another 15 hours on that cart. The V and the black are a fantastic combo and I remember being in the same position that your in now. I spent a LONG time getting the arm height perfectly parallel in fact it drove me insane but it will be worth it when you hit the correct setup.
Hi Andy, it may even be longer than that according to some folk.:eek:
Wakefield Turntables
26-02-2015, 20:26
any additional news?
any additional news?
A little........will post tomorrow when l have listened some more.....:sofa:
A little........will post tomorrow when l have listened some more.....:sofa:
Yes- things are definitely moving on- just like Hank Snow said...........
Ammonite Audio
27-02-2015, 06:57
Maybe this has already been said, but if my own experience with the older Kontrapunkt B is anything to go by, these quality Ortofons are only truly liberated by a decent SUT. I know that there's no technical reason why a SUT should be better than your Dino or Arkless phono amps, but IME a decent, well-matched SUT is always more musically satisfying, both in terms of tonal colour and musical expression.
A little........will post tomorrow when l have listened some more.....:sofa:
Are you Bev in disguise? :lol:
By the time its fully "on song" you may have departed into the great listening room in the sky :lol:
Are you Bev in disguise? :lol:
By the time its fully "on song" you may have departed into the great listening room in the sky :lol:
Keep up chief- l have had very little listening daftee how you doing Brooky?- keep on and l might ring you.
walpurgis
27-02-2015, 10:28
Maybe this has already been said, but if my own experience with the older Kontrapunkt B is anything to go by, these quality Ortofons are only truly liberated by a decent SUT. I know that there's no technical reason why a SUT should be better than your Dino or Arkless phono amps, but IME a decent, well-matched SUT is always more musically satisfying, both in terms of tonal colour and musical expression.
A good SUT. There's nothing more disappointing than a poor SUT.
Like most of the cheaper Ortofons, ATs, the tiny Sony jobs, the ones built into the MC version of the EAR 834L and so forth. They all stink.
(remember the old HFN Black Box? That was dire)
Maybe this has already been said, but if my own experience with the older Kontrapunkt B is anything to go by, these quality Ortofons are only truly liberated by a decent SUT. I know that there's no technical reason why a SUT should be better than your Dino or Arkless phono amps, but IME a decent, well-matched SUT is always more musically satisfying, both in terms of tonal colour and musical expression.
Yeah, good shout, Hugo…
Andy, why don’t you try Al’s Ortofon ST-80SE, with the Black, through the Dino’s MM input, presuming it has one? I can guarantee that will give you a rather different presentation - essentially, it’ll put more ‘meat on the bone’, as it were.
One of my concerns is that, with the introduction of the Black, your system balance is probably a little too ‘forward’ sounding, as the sonic signature of the Black, Arkless and Dino, is balanced towards the ‘cool’ side of things. I suspect that you need a little more warmth, to even things out a bit :)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
27-02-2015, 10:32
Maybe this has already been said, but if my own experience with the older Kontrapunkt B is anything to go by, these quality Ortofons are only truly liberated by a decent SUT. I know that there's no technical reason why a SUT should be better than your Dino or Arkless phono amps, but IME a decent, well-matched SUT is always more musically satisfying, both in terms of tonal colour and musical expression.
You mean the Ortofon ST80SE by any chance :eyebrows: Just like the one I have strapped to my black :eek:
Wakefield Turntables
27-02-2015, 10:32
Come on Andy that's your next purchase..... :lol:
walpurgis
27-02-2015, 10:36
Peter (orbscure) has just listed a Rothwell example in Private Exhibitions. It's an unknown quantity to me, not having tried this model. Rothwell seem to be respected though.
if you can manage a little diy (or know someone who can) have a look at the step-up transformers offered by Lundahl. Rather fine, and you just pay the basic manufacturers cost. Of the prebuilt ones, the best I know is the Music First step-up. I have compared it with a lot of costly rivals, and it seems the best, to my ears anyway.
As for running-in the Ortofon, my own experience has been that if you don't like it initially, running-in won't change that. Unless you simply 'adapt' to the cartridge. Ortofon are a very impressive and professional firm, but I have never wanted to own one of their cartridges. Bit too 'Scandanavian cool' for my tastes. But then, come to think of it, I no longer like moving coils in general...so my view is irrelevant. I do use a Music first sut with a moving iron, low output, cartridge.
Ammonite Audio
27-02-2015, 11:17
You mean the Ortofon ST80SE by any chance :eyebrows: Just like the one I have strapped to my black :eek:
Actually I did not. I've owned the ST80SE and did not find it to be up to much, with the Kontrapunkt B. I now use an Audio Note AN-S3H.
Actually I did not. I've owned the ST80SE and did not find it to be up to much...
I suspect that was a combination of personal taste and a possible system mismatch [there are so many variables with these things], as many others and I have used an ST80SE, with great success.
Furthermore, as Andy’s pal, Al, owns one, he’s got nothing to lose by trying it :)
Marco.
if you can manage a little diy (or know someone who can) have a look at the step-up transformers offered by Lundahl.
As a point of note, all Ortofon SUTs use Lundahl traffos of some description. Of course, that doesn’t negate the validity of going the DIY SUT route.
Ortofon are a very impressive and professional firm, but I have never wanted to own one of their cartridges. Bit too 'Scandanavian cool' for my tastes.
+1, although they occasionally produce the odd one (such as the Cadenza Bronze), which bucks that trend. What you’ve said is also why I use SPUs, as they have a totally different sonic signature/musical presentation from all other Ortofon cartridges.
Marco.
Yeah, good shout, Hugo…
Andy, why don’t you try Al’s Ortofon ST-80SE, with the Black, through the Dino’s MM input, presuming it has one? I can guarantee that will give you a rather different presentation - essentially, it’ll put more ‘meat on the bone’, as it were.
One of my concerns is that, with the introduction of the Black, your system balance is probably a little too ‘forward’ sounding, as the sonic signature of the Black, Arkless and Dino, is balanced towards the ‘cool’ side of things. I suspect that you need a little more warmth, to even things out a bit :)
Marco.
Er finances? If you feel like treating me With the Orty SUT then fill yer boots Marco,wrong on the Arkless- all will be revealed later.
Lol, no worries! I can only comment on the Arkless, on the occasions I’ve heard it. I found it as described, and ok but nothing special. It’s a classic example of exaggerated forum hype.
Sorry, dude, that’s my view.
Marco.
Things are sounding good!:D
Wakefield Turntables
03-03-2015, 09:48
At last!
Things are sounding good, because the Black’s in the bin and I bought a Bronze!:D
{Edited for accuracy}
:eyebrows: :eyebrows:
Marco.
{Edited for accuracy}
:eyebrows: :eyebrows:
Marco.
:scratch:
Mmmm- editing posts again tut tut.:ner:
On a more serious note, she is sounding sweet, smooth, fat and musical.:)
What, you girlfriend does when you tickle her g-spot? :D
Sorry, I’ll be serious now… Glad it seems to be hitting the spot at long last!! :cool:
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
03-03-2015, 10:59
This has been an interesting thread in what to expect if you buy a ortofon cadenza black.
:scratch:
Mmmm- editing posts again tut tut.
I didn’t edit the post, I edited the quote on my reply! :ner:
;)
Marco.
Finally, thanks to everybody who posted and offered advice.:):cool:
Are you being completely honest with yourself, though? :eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
Are you being completely honest with yourself, though? :eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
l'm not sure.:lol:
Hehehe… You’re worse than a woman! :D
Marco.
This has been an interesting thread in what to expect if you buy a ortofon cadenza black.
Yes, can be a revealing and fussy bugger to get right.:)
Wakefield Turntables
03-03-2015, 13:10
Yes, can be a revealing and fussy bugger to get right.:)
We all warned you :D.
We all warned you :D.
True.:)
Audio Al
03-03-2015, 13:26
Will you need to change the tread title ?
103 here I come :D
‘I really wanted a Bronze, but I’m making do with a Black’.
:eyebrows:
Marco.
‘I really wanted a Bronze, but I’m making do with a Black’.
:eyebrows:
Marco.
Again no, well not at the moment anyway.£££££££££££;)
Cadanza Black in da house!:yay::yesbruv::yay:
You will hear why Al.;):cool:
For a giggle, try it through his ST-80SE SUT into the MM input of your phono stage……
Marco.
For a giggle, try it through his ST-80SE SUT into the MM input of your phono stage……
Marco.
Er no, need to pay off a bar bill.:):cool:
Lol - there’s no harm in having a wee listen, is there - just for curiosity?
Marco.
Lol - there’s no harm in having a wee listen, is there - just for curiosity?
Marco.
No, see posty 127, you trying to skint me?:mental:- Bar bill comes first......:cool:
Ok, ok, but I’m only asking you to listen to it not BUY it! ;)
Marco.
Ok, ok, but I’m only asking you to listen to it not BUY it! ;)
Marco.
That is the problem.:lol:
You might hate it…..
Marco.
You might hate it…..
Marco.
Carry on and l will report your posts to a moderator or even the site owner, then you will be sorry.
Andy, Im glad it is now giving you what you want.
I really enjoyed my Cadenza Black, and thought it was great.
Andy, Im glad it is now giving you what you want.
I really enjoyed my Cadenza Black, and thought it was great.
Thanks Brian, l love the cartridge, it is a music maker!
Add presence to the list of the Black's attributes as well.:)
Add presence to the list of the Black's attributes as well.:)
Yawn
14 pages of crap about a bloody cartridge, there's a whole world out there guys....:ner:
glad you are enjoying it Mr Saunders :)
Wakefield Turntables
07-03-2015, 19:56
14 pages of crap about a bloody cartridge
Bit harsh Dave :( I look at it as 14 pages of help and observations from other Black owners. That's what a forum is about.
Yawn
14 pages of crap about a bloody cartridge, there's a whole world out there guys....:ner:
What’s a hi-fi forum about then, daftee, if you can’t chat about hi-fi? Cartridges come under that category. If you find this thread boring, then by-pass it - simples!
Is it because the discussion is about something you don’t sell? ;)
Marco.
But......... a question for the OP.
What was it that turned this cart from something full of imagined promise (first stage of all new carts) to something you definitely were unsure about to something you now sound like you wouldn't part with in this world or the next?
Was it just putting enough hours on it or did you embark on a tweakathon and suddenly it came good? Or did you change something else?
I'd like "further and better particulars" if you can spare them please.
Audio Al
08-03-2015, 14:08
The answer may be as follows :-
0-2 pints ( Meh pish )
2-4 pints ( may have possibilities )
4-6 pints ( Starting to come on song )
6-8 Pnts ( Oh my )
8-10 pINt's ( holy f in poo its soun ding rarver spendid )
10-12 or was ti firten :spew::spew::spew:
over 12 pass out :D
But......... a question for the OP.
What was it that turned this cart from something full of imagined promise (first stage of all new carts) to something you definitely were unsure about to something you now sound like you wouldn't part with in this world or the next?
Was it just putting enough hours on it or did you embark on a tweakathon and suddenly it came good? Or did you change something else?
I'd like "further and better particulars" if you can spare them please.
Hi Bob, sure no problem, the Black was first plumbed in to the best sounding amp l own tweaked VA Sensation/ running on batteries, Trichord Dino+ and Connex Audio Silver loudspeaker cable/IC, this little lot is glass clear and l mean glass clear ( read revealing!), tonal colours were outstanding, add this to the Cadenza Black(CB) which exhibits the same properties, all this sounded too good and after a while a tad- uninvolving.....but the sound quality was spectacular!
This is not what l wanted.
So- this is where it gets interesting........
Plumbed the SONY TA-T770ES in with the silver cables- a lot more colouration- but music:)
l changed my Silver Cables for the Hitachi I/C ( £5)that folk were going mad about a few years ago and changed the loudspeaker cable to Microphonics (£6):lol: Plumbed in the JA Turbo
Holy B'Jesus now l have a super smooth and full presentation that is quite coloured ( compared to the VA Sensation/ Silver cable combo) but goodness me it is so musical!!!! The sound would not register highly on the audiophile scale, but for musicality it is now off the charts ( in my world anyway), l wanted to improve on the GYRO/SME V/Denon DL103 but try to keep the same sound signature, and now l believe l have just achieved this- more than happy.:eek:
Lol, I’m making no comment on that… As long as yer happy!! ;)
Marco.
Ali Tait
08-03-2015, 18:12
That Microphonics cable is good stuff, my OB's are wired with it.
That Microphonics cable is good stuff, my OB's are wired with it.
Yes, l really like them, a very musical and smooth cable that costs buttons.:cool:
Clive197
08-03-2015, 22:34
Yes, l really like them, a very musical and smooth cable that costs buttons.:cool:
If I send you 20 assorted shirt buttons, would you get me a set? Thanx.
Clive
If I send you 20 assorted shirt buttons, would you get me a set? Thanx.
Clive
20 Buttons would probably be more expensive that what l paid for the cable Clive- it is available on a famous auction site now.......
jandl100
09-03-2015, 08:09
Yeah, I thought as much from the beginning of this saga - add a bit of colouration to the traditional Ortofon sound and hey presto, we are back in the land of the 103 - sorted ! :lol:
Yeah, I thought as much from the beginning of this saga - add a bit of colouration to the traditional Ortofon sound and hey presto, we are back in the land of the 103 - sorted ! :lol:
True Jerry, the Sensation/Silver cables and the Black was too much- add less transparency and bingo- beautiful music!
Goodness me this combo is musical!
Just to make sure l am not going nuts AudioAl is coming round at 1300hrs for a listening sesh.:)
jandl100
09-03-2015, 08:35
... Andy: Could you ask Al if he'll be bringing along the rack he mentioned to add to my charity sale at Scalford? - the booger never did reply to my post/PM. ;)
... Andy: Could you ask Al if he'll be bringing along the rack he mentioned to add to my charity sale at Scalford? - the booger never did reply to my post/PM. ;)
Will do Jerry.:)
The answer may be as follows :-
0-2 pints ( Meh pish )
2-4 pints ( may have possibilities )
4-6 pints ( Starting to come on song )
6-8 Pnts ( Oh my )
8-10 pINt's ( holy f in poo its soun ding rarver spendid )
10-12 or was ti firten :spew::spew::spew:
over 12 pass out :D
14-15 Actually start thinking Marco is alright.:D
Audio Al
10-03-2015, 19:17
The evidence that the Black is indeed installed
Popped over 2 Tarzan Towers
M rAndy instead I photograph his kit , so as follows
No1 , Ars
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_3030.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bigboobs/media/IMG_3030.jpg.html)
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No 2
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_3031.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bigboobs/media/IMG_3031.jpg.html)
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_3035.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bigboobs/media/IMG_3035.jpg.html)
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.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_3036.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bigboobs/media/IMG_3036.jpg.html)
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I will leave M rAndy 2 put the words in :)
Coffee , chocke biscuits and some good tunes ( I took the best tunes with me :lol: )
Over 2 you mate :-
Wakefield Turntables
10-03-2015, 20:38
That looks like you have the black aligned properly. It should sit 1-2mm above the vinyl.
jandl100
10-03-2015, 20:39
Coo - nice legs, Andy. ;)
jandl100
10-03-2015, 20:40
& who are the 4 hippy drongos in the pic on the wall?
OMG ... a Pink Floyd shrine!
Strange place, Essex, innit.
jandl100
10-03-2015, 20:55
Ah - Pink Floyd - they sound better than they looked. :lol:
& who are the 4 hippy drongos in the pic on the wall?
:steam:
Nice pictures Al- especially of my bottom...... again.:eek:
The evidence that the Black is indeed installed
Popped over 2 Tarzan Towers
M rAndy instead I photograph his kit , so as follows
No1 , Ars
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_3030.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bigboobs/media/IMG_3030.jpg.html)
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No 2
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_3031.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bigboobs/media/IMG_3031.jpg.html)
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.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_3032.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bigboobs/media/IMG_3032.jpg.html)
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.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_3033.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bigboobs/media/IMG_3033.jpg.html)
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.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_3034.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bigboobs/media/IMG_3034.jpg.html)
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_3035.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bigboobs/media/IMG_3035.jpg.html)
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.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_3036.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bigboobs/media/IMG_3036.jpg.html)
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I will leave M rAndy 2 put the words in :)
Coffee , chocke biscuits and some good tunes ( I took the best tunes with me :lol: )
Over 2 you mate :-
Thanks Al-another enjoyable sesh- continuing with Al's gradual weening away from pishanto and trying to educate him with sounds from the late sixties and early seventies, this visit included tracks from ' Fly like an Eagle' and 'The Joker' LP's by The Steve Miller Band' and Al educated me in the ways of the 'power ballad' ( pishanto?) including 'Woman in chains' by Oleta Adams ( never heard of this artist before) and Tears for fears 'Sowing the seeds of love' LP which is a great LP, tried Al's Ortofon SUT through the JA Turbo to really good effect- very nice and a rather nice RFC Pluto IC, and fannied around with various cables to achieve a sound Al liked- l think l failed.:eek: Then Al left after eating all my biccies and making a fuss of Hugo......:ner:
All in a good few hours spent putting the world to right.:lol:
OMG ... a Pink Floyd shrine!
Strange place, Essex, innit.
That is how we roll in Eshex mate.:D
That RFC Pluto is a very nice cable Mr Owl.
Just a little update on the Cadenza Black this is an incredibly smooth and musical cartridge, that reveals changes in recording techniques and equipment changes, but not in a clinical way, l have made a little change to the Gyrodec's isolation and this is easily heard in the CB, the tracking and lack of surface noise is really impressive, happy bunny.:):cool:
Cadenza Black daftee.
Nice set up Andy.
Selling some 'Lack' tables if you need more Ikea furniture :D
Nice set up Andy.
Selling some 'Lack' tables if you need more Ikea furniture :D
Cheers Roy, which Lacks?
Cheers Roy, which Lacks?
Two lamp tables & a coffee table in birch veneer, interested?
keiron99
18-03-2015, 21:24
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_3030.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/bigboobs/media/IMG_3030.jpg.html)
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I also have the Expedit storage. However, I store my LPs like books on a library shelf, so you can see the spine. How do you access the ones at the back? Are they on some kind of sliding shelf?
Yes l store them with the spines showing, just put the records l am listening to facing my listening positioning. (Adds a bit of street cred too:lol:)
Loikes it… But why have your speakers got nipples? :D
Marco.
Loikes it… But why have your speakers got nipples? :D
Marco.
They are there to season the wood :eyebrows:
Loikes it… But why have your speakers got nipples? :D
Marco.
Yes,yes they have.
Gosh, darling, you’re *Soooo* MoneySupermarket!
Marco.
Gosh, darling, you’re *Soooo* MoneySupermarket!
Marco.
6/10, better than your usual humour.....
Hehehehehe… Glad you’re keeping a score card, daftee. We aim to please… Can’t promise the next one will be as good! :eyebrows:
Marco.
P.S Glad you seem settled now with the Black.
Clive197
19-03-2015, 10:19
Andy, I would be most interested in what you feel the differences are between your new Black and your previous cartridge the DL103. I totally appreciate that the two cartridges are at a different level in both price and technology.
Hi Clive, the differences..... Where to begin
Denon DL103;
The good bits;
1.Addictive musicality.( This is very important to me.)
2.Very cohesive and balanced soundstage.
3.Very full sound with a fat, propulsive bass which underpins the sound.
4.Price/performance very high.
5. Did l mention musicality?
Bad bits;
1.Some colouration and greyness to the sound.
2.Not the best tracker in the world, on occasion would hear inner groove distortion, however when an ART Graphite headshell damper was added this more less went away.
I loved this cartridge because it so fun to listen to, l can see why people love it, when my two Denons go to the great cartridge heaven in the Sky l will get them re- tipped.
Compared to the Cadenza Black(CB); Er, no contest really after a very shaky start with the CB, today with around 50 or so hours it sounds like a totally different beast, very warm, smooth, full with nice tonal colours and again like the Denon very musical- l hate the blooming thing as l have things to do, but finding myself not doing them and just wanting to listen to music:D
If you have an itch to scratch and your tonearm suitable then l would say try the Denon as it is such a fun listen.
This reply is my opinion on my room and system- hope this helps Clive".
Cadenza Black Daftee
amigarobbo
20-03-2015, 21:32
When you say smooth, if you played something that's not smooth, and instead is supposed to be rough and spiky does it sound, washed out? or is it accurate?
When you say smooth, if you played something that's not smooth, and instead is supposed to be rough and spiky does it sound, washed out? or is it accurate?
It never gets naughty, as all my amps are very, smooth and warm, if it was played in a bright/harsh system then l would not like to say, but here it sounds very warm and and smooth.
Hope that helps.:)
Cadenza Black Daftee.:eek:
Hello Andy
Noticed that you have an İkea board under your TT and I ve been planing to make exactly the same for my TT and second one for my amp. Do you recommend bamboo? Have you got any sonic benefits with this?
And what type of feet you choosed.?
Many thanks
Hello Andy
Noticed that you have an İkea board under your TT and I ve been planing to make exactly the same for my TT and second one for my amp. Do you recommend bamboo? Have you got any sonic benefits with this?
And what type of feet you choosed.?
Many thanks
Hi Doruk, l can only speak of the Gyrodec regarding the Bamboo IKEA Chopping board, yes it made a small difference, however l put a medical platform under the IKEA and this improved isolation quite a bit, the board in question has Sorbothane feet which are stuck to a 10mm MDF board, then a glass board has glued to this, on top of this is the IKEA Bamboo board, then on top that are SDS feet, and this little lot works well.
The Gyrodec is fussy in my room ( suspended timber floor with Laminate over the top:steam:) so experiments will continue on this and my loudspeakers.
Also had good results with Audiophile Base ( this also improved my Techie as well), but l will be receiving some massive Granite slabs next week for my Harbeth's which if they look ok will be put into action.:)
Cadenza Black blog;
Star date - whatever, had a few tweaking performed by my dealer on the Gyrodec and this has allowed the Black to reach even greater heights ( plus l was told it is still breaking in), crickey this thing is getting, smoother, sweeter and more musical by the day, and the tracking is improving too- l hate this bloody cartridge- l need to eat.:cool:
Audio Al
25-03-2015, 10:13
:scratch: l hate this bloody cartridge- l need to eat. :scratch:
I am eating now :) full English Old Boy yum yum :lol:
:scratch: l hate this bloody cartridge- l need to eat. :scratch:
I am eating now :) full English Old Boy yum yum :lol:
Ok.
:scratch: l hate this bloody cartridge- l need to eat. :scratch:
I am eating now :) full English Old Boy yum yum :lol:
You are always eating.:D
Audio Al
25-03-2015, 11:25
You are always eating.:D
NO !
Only when I am awake :ner:
Some more piccies of the amps that drive my Harbs, this picture l will call 'Beauty and the beast':lol: both amps give a different presentation to music............... ( l am practising my photie skills - does it show.)
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag56/tarzan30/IMG_3072_zpszo2l8dgm.jpg (http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/tarzan30/media/IMG_3072_zpszo2l8dgm.jpg.html)
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag56/tarzan30/IMG_3070_zpsxqb8ynhj.jpg (http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/tarzan30/media/IMG_3070_zpsxqb8ynhj.jpg.html)
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag56/tarzan30/IMG_3071%20-%20Copy_zpsjacwkuba.jpg (http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/tarzan30/media/IMG_3071%20-%20Copy_zpsjacwkuba.jpg.html)
Ahh - Scott 4. A regular spin in my house. Class;)
misterdog
09-04-2015, 23:31
Having just joined the CB club I have a question.
If you have an arm with a tapered arm tube how can you ensure it is parallel?
The arm is a pro-ject 10 evolution, it has a line printed down the middle of it's length and looks level to the eye but is it?.
Paul, are you going to be fitting this yourself. If so, I assume you have some kind of alignment protractor.
It should have lines on it which will make it easy to see if the cartridge is correctly aligned.
If someone else is fitting it, Im sure they will use such a protractor.
Good luck, it is a great cartridge.
Having just joined the CB club I have a question.
If you have an arm with a tapered arm tube how can you ensure it is parallel?
The arm is a pro-ject 10 evolution, it has a line printed down the middle of it's length and looks level to the eye but is it?.
Good question, the answer is a simple one. Use the h/shell as a line of sight guide instead of the arm tube, as this will be flat/horizontal in the plane of the tonearm. I'm sure you will find this corresponds with the level line printed on the Project arm tube as Project are not a muppet firm & make well engineeered products.
anubisgrau
10-04-2015, 11:15
I've thought this is about Koetsu Black!
Having just joined the CB club I have a question.
If you have an arm with a tapered arm tube how can you ensure it is parallel?
The arm is a pro-ject 10 evolution, it has a line printed down the middle of it's length and looks level to the eye but is it?.
Let us know how you find it Paul.:)
misterdog
13-04-2015, 10:22
HOLY SHIT Really starting to come on song now.
I'm on 120 Ohm loading currently with a Jez Arkless 'basic' stage into TVC passive pre >n-Core monoblocks feeding Quad 989 ESL.
I can only image how it will sound with a 7Kg. 4 box Paradise stage strapped to it. (I'll let you know in a couple of weeks) :eek:
Oh and a silicone damping bath for the Pro-ject 10CC Evo arm to kill any bearing/arm resonance, if i get my finger out.
Hi Paul,
Sorry to interrupt - just a quick one... Where in the UK are you (geographical region)? We require that info to be put on member's profiles. 'UK' on its own is simply too vague. Cheers :)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
13-04-2015, 11:15
HOLY SHIT Really starting to come on song now.
I'm on 120 Ohm loading currently with a Jez Arkless 'basic' stage into TVC passive pre >n-Core monoblocks feeding Quad 989 ESL.
I can only image how it will sound with a 7Kg. 4 box Paradise stage strapped to it. (I'll let you know in a couple of weeks) :eek:
Oh and a silicone damping bath for the Pro-ject 10CC Evo arm to kill any bearing/arm resonance, if i get my finger out.
welcome me to quite an exclusive club, the 4box paradise/cadenza black club, I think we are the only two members.
misterdog
13-04-2015, 11:38
Copy cat ? Though my Paradise amps are going into Olive wood veneered cases to match my TT.
Did SQ. do your Paradise build ?
I'm also based in gods own county of Yorkshire. ( the god of Hi-Fi )
HOLY SHIT Really starting to come on song now.
I'm on 120 Ohm loading currently with a Jez Arkless 'basic' stage into TVC passive pre >n-Core monoblocks feeding Quad 989 ESL.
I can only image how it will sound with a 7Kg. 4 box Paradise stage strapped to it. (I'll let you know in a couple of weeks) :eek:
Oh and a silicone damping bath for the Pro-ject 10CC Evo arm to kill any bearing/arm resonance, if i get my finger out.
Paul how many hours did your Cadenza Black take to spread its wings as it were?
misterdog
13-04-2015, 11:58
Paul how many hours did your Cadenza Black take to spread its wings as it were?
It currently only has around 4/5 hours on it and sounding better each day. Saxophones are sounding so holographic it's scary, though i shall listen again tonight before the bottle of Cabernet....
Blimey, a way to go yet then......;):gig:
amigarobbo
09-05-2015, 06:21
Okey, I've done it. I've got one!
Even just slapped in and from new, is better than my, admittedly rather old, Blue Cadenza.
Okey, I've done it. I've got one!
Even just slapped in and from new, is better than my, admittedly rather old, Blue Cadenza.
:popcorn:
Welcome to the club Stephen.:)
Wait a minute, slapped it in to what?:eek:
amigarobbo
09-05-2015, 09:35
Err.. my tonearm...
Slapped in meaning just quickly set the tracking angle correct, got the weight correct, but as the Blue and Black are similar size and weight just sticking it in should be a simple drop in replacement.
Anyway, here's the old Blue
https://youtu.be/Zmb3uhG2BrU?t=346
Black
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icLwZno6Ip8
Even via Youtoobs business there's a definite improvement, although looking back the noise on the blue does suggest it was well past its prime.
WARNING NOT AUDIOPHILE APPROVED MUSIC!!
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