Wharfedale Denton 80th. Anniversary speakers

[Martyn Miles]

Have any Forum members heard these, or own a pair?
I understand they were a Limited Edition release some years ago.
M Miles.

[agk]

They certainly look the part and HiFiWorld liked them.

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/index.php/loudspeakers/65-reviews/519--wharfedale-denton-80th-anniversay-edition.html

Is that our very own Marco commenting?

[Marco]

On this occasion, not guilty! ;)

Oh, I'd also add that I like those Wharfies :)

Marco.

[Pieoftheday]

I havn't tried them but the movie rooms Edinburgh are knockin em out for £249 ,some slight miss print on the speaker, jim

[Ali Tait]

Seems a good price.

[Martyn Miles]

I havn't tried them but the movie rooms Edinburgh are knockin em out for £249 ,some slight miss print on the speaker, jim

That probably makes them collectable. Am am correct in thinking that 2,500 pairs were produced during Wharfedale's 80th. Anniversary year ?

M Miles.

[Pieoftheday]

That probably makes them collectable. Am am correct in thinking that 2,500 pairs were produced during Wharfedale's 80th. Anniversary year ?

M Miles.
I'm guessing they'll be of limited quantity, there's a few good reviews around

[struth]

That probably makes them collectable. Am am correct in thinking that 2,500 pairs were produced during Wharfedale's 80th. Anniversary year ?

M Miles.

one of the cover badges is slightly askew. Happened to a fair few apparently. it is noticeable if you put the covers on but nothing too bad...think they look better without anyways. Nice speaker at half price.

[southall-1998]

Well they certainly look nice. Do they have an ''old fashioned'' sound quality?

S.

[Ronksley]

Didnt realise that Wharfedale had done a new version of these very interesting
I have Been wondering what new Wharfedales sound like as the two old small pairs I have sound good always listenable and enjoyable

[Reffc]

Didnt realise that Wharfedale had done a new version of these very interesting
I have Been wondering what new Wharfedales sound like as the two old small pairs I have sound good always listenable and enjoyable

Different company entirely. The name was bought out years ago. For those interested:

Wharfedale came into being as a Wharfedale Wireless Works in 1932, the founder being the late, great Gilbert Briggs who went on to write what remains a definitive book(s) on loudspeaker design.

Briggs sold the Wharfedale Wireless works in 1958 to the Rank Organisation although he continued to work there until his retirement in 1965 as the company manager. A few years later, the factory moved to newly developed larger premises in Bradford. Rank continued with ownership up until the early 1990s and during their tenure, many innovations and improvements in the drive unit technology were implemented, some under Gilbert Briggs tenure. The original Diamonds of the early '80s for example were conceived with improvements in technology which Wharfedlae had invested in early on. I also think that during the 1970's, Wharfedales roots with speaker DIY kits was re-established under the "Speakercraft name". Rank sold the company in the 90's and it was bought by the Verity group which formed another group (NXT, which as an umbrella group owned Quad and leak). during the late 1990s NXT became the subject of a management buy-out and Wharfedale became semi independent again and the name was bought by the International Audio Group. I think that Argos also had or has a stake in Wharfedale which may explain some of the cheaper (and nastier) designs rolled out for the more mainstream mass market.

The speakers many of us may be familiar with are usually the 1970s/80s designs, so the 80th anniversary ones at a guess are possibly just a marketing attempt as cashing in on the name rather than trying to recreate any designs of old, except perhaps in looks.

One of Gilbert Briggs' early innovations was the double cabinet speaker, one cab inside another; with the annulus filled with sand, making them all but inert. Now if they'd reinvented an 80th cabinet design along the same lines with a nice medium sized sensitive driver, that would be more interesting for me personally speaking than the design they had on offer marked as the anniversary edition.

[hifi_dave]

Gilbert Briggs was the inventor of many great speaker designs, often copied in today's speakers.

The Wharfedales in the OP are just another Chinese brand using an established British name.

[Frazeur1]

I believe it was Peter Comeau of IAG that designed/voiced these or whatever it is they do nowadays. I have heard it, it certainly to my ears is nothing really special which may be okay, it just seems to get on with things in a slightly warmish sort of way. Definately not offensive at all and really, a good buy at half off if one is looking for a small little speaker. The finish on them is pretty nice too.

[walpurgis]

Gilbert Briggs was the inventor of many great speaker designs, often copied in today's speakers.

The Wharfedales in the OP are just another Chinese brand using an established British name.

Just saw your post Dave. I had it in mind to say much the same. :thumbsup:

[walpurgis]

These new Wharfedales are slightly dearer:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wharfedale-Airedale-Classic-Loudspeakers-15-bass-unit-super-tweeters-speakers-/261776266484?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cf314d4f4

[southall-1998]

I believe it was Peter Comeau of IAG that designed/voiced these or whatever it is they do nowadays. I have heard it, it certainly to my ears is nothing really special which may be okay, it just seems to get on with things in a slightly warmish sort of way. Definately not offensive at all and really, a good buy at half off if one is looking for a small little speaker. The finish on them is pretty nice too.


Peter does make some good speakers.

S.

[Pieoftheday]

Different company entirely. The name was bought out years ago. For those interested:

Wharfedale came into being as a Wharfedale Wireless Works in 1932, the founder being the late, great Gilbert Briggs who went on to write what remains a definitive book(s) on loudspeaker design.

Briggs sold the Wharfedale Wireless works in 1958 to the Rank Organisation although he continued to work there until his retirement in 1965 as the company manager. A few years later, the factory moved to newly developed larger premises in Bradford. Rank continued with ownership up until the early 1990s and during their tenure, many innovations and improvements in the drive unit technology were implemented, some under Gilbert Briggs tenure. The original Diamonds of the early '80s for example were conceived with improvements in technology which Wharfedlae had invested in early on. I also think that during the 1970's, Wharfedales roots with speaker DIY kits was re-established under the "Speakercraft name". Rank sold the company in the 90's and it was bought by the Verity group which formed another group (NXT, which as an umbrella group owned Quad and leak). during the late 1990s NXT became the subject of a management buy-out and Wharfedale became semi independent again and the name was bought by the International Audio Group. I think that Argos also had or has a stake in Wharfedale which may explain some of the cheaper (and nastier) designs rolled out for the more mainstream mass market.

The speakers many of us may be familiar with are usually the 1970s/80s designs, so the 80th anniversary ones at a guess are possibly just a marketing attempt as cashing in on the name rather than trying to recreate any designs of old, except perhaps in looks.

One of Gilbert Briggs' early innovations was the double cabinet speaker, one cab inside another; with the annulus filled with sand, making them all but inert. Now if they'd reinvented an 80th cabinet design along the same lines with a nice medium sized sensitive driver, that would be more interesting for me personally speaking than the design they had on offer marked as the anniversary edition.

I've had some of the 'new' wharfdales' good gear sound wise , utter shite, finish, build. ,wise, diamond 122

[Martyn Miles]

Well they certainly look nice. Do they have an ''old fashioned'' sound quality?

S.

'Old fashioned' sound quality.
Now there's an idea for 2015...

[Martyn Miles]

I believe it was Peter Comeau of IAG that designed/voiced these or whatever it is they do nowadays. I have heard it, it certainly to my ears is nothing really special which may be okay, it just seems to get on with things in a slightly warmish sort of way. Definitely not offensive at all and really, a good buy at half off if one is looking for a small little speaker. The finish on them is pretty nice too.

I listened to a pair of LS3/5as before the Dentons.
Both sets of speakers were driven by a Quad 34/303 combination.
The '3/5as sounded better to my ears, but not that much better.
The Wharfedales conveyed detail, the bass end was good, a lovely midrange and the top sweet with no harshness. That 'big sound from a relatively small cabinet' was there, much like the little BBC speaker.
I could certainly live with them...

[Frazeur1]

I certainly could live with a pair myself. My initial comment on them being nothing special wasn't a dig at them at all. Sometimes when a speaker does nothing special-to my ears, they usually are the ones that will hang around a lot longer and are less fatiguing. I felt the bass end was maybe a bit better than the upper end of things which I thought was a bit polite. I do think they are a very good value and I thought for a bit about buying a pair, at half off hard to pass on them, but in the end, I needed another speaker like I need another hole in my head.

[struth]

These new Wharfedales are slightly dearer:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wharfedale-Airedale-Classic-Loudspeakers-15-bass-unit-super-tweeters-speakers-/261776266484?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cf314d4f4

my friend had a pair of airdales...damned good woofers:eyebrows: ...

[hifi_dave]

Just saw your post Dave. I had it in mind to say much the same. :thumbsup:

Must be one of those 'great minds' things.

[Martyn Miles]

Well they certainly look nice. Do they have an ''old fashioned'' sound quality?

S.

They are very good, these 80th. Anniversary Dentons.

Put in the place of my LS3/5as, I was surprised how good they sound.
I will be honest and say that if the '3/5as disappeared I would be quite happy to live with the Dentons.

[ReggieB]

I auditioned a pair of the Wharfedale Dittons after reading the Hi-Fi World magazine article. I was almost going to buy them to replace a pair of KEF Q3i. But then on a whim I asked to hear a pair of Spendor S3/5R². As soon as I heard the first beats of the first track I listened to on the Spendors, I was smitten. Twice the price, but there was no comparison. The Spendors just disappeared, and leaving the music playing in the space in between.

I spent some time in the Harbeth rooms at the Bristol show, and their P3ESR sounded lovely too.

So, in my opinion the Dittons are fine, but they're not in the same league as a modern LS3/5a derivative.

[walpurgis]

I prefer the Celestion Dentons myself. :eyebrows:

[Martyn Miles]

I prefer the Celestion Dentons myself. :eyebrows:

I do like the idea of Celestion Dentons.
How about Wharfedale Dittons ?

[southall-1998]

They are very good, these 80th. Anniversary Dentons.

Put in the place of my LS3/5as, I was surprised how good they sound.
I will be honest and say that if the '3/5as disappeared I would be quite happy to live with the Dentons.


Where did you audition these new Dentons, Martyn?

S.

[walpurgis]

How about Wharfedale Dittons ?

See post 24

[shane]

Peter's now "Director of Acoustic Design" for IAG, which owns Wharfedale, Quad, Leak, Mission, Castle, Luxman and, believe it or not, Ekco. That makes him the successor to Gilbert Briggs, Peter Walker, Harold Leak, E K Cole and just about every other hi-fi luminary Britain produced since the second world war. Some mighty big boots to fill there...


When I was a kid we had an Ekco Bakelite loo seat. I wonder how that fits into the great scheme of things in Shenzhen.

[Martyn Miles]

Where did you audition these new Dentons, Martyn?

S.
As I have a small business, MGM Audio, I bought a pair for demonstration purposes.
I thought they would very likely suit a potential customer.
He was calling to hear some speakers
and loved them.
He, too, thought they were a viable alternative to LS3/5as.

[Reffc]

Peter's now "Director of Acoustic Design" for IAG, which owns Wharfedale, Quad, Leak, Mission, Castle, Luxman and, believe it or not, Ekco. That makes him the successor to Gilbert Briggs, Peter Walker, Harold Leak, E K Cole and just about every other hi-fi luminary Britain produced since the second world war. Some mighty big boots to fill there...


When I was a kid we had an Ekco Bakelite loo seat. I wonder how that fits into the great scheme of things in Shenzhen.


Except (and it's a massive "except") that Peter has very little influence on the final design direction of any Wharfedale (or Quad, or luxman or...) which is majorly market/fashion/convenience/accountancy led. Gone are the days where the designer railroaded through what they wanted to see offered to the public. Most designs, from the IAG group will now be "designed by committee" at a wild guess ;)....I spoke with Peter last year and he was sort of bemoaning the fact that he envied many UK cottage industries who still had the freedom to follow their design decisions and beliefs, and not major market forces.

[Marco]

That’s a rather sad state of affairs, endemic in the hi-fi industry these days, and precisely what’s wrong with it in the eyes [and often ears] of the genuine audio enthusiast…. :rolleyes:

Marco.

[Ronksley]

That’s a rather sad state of affairs, endemic in the hi-fi industry these days, and precisely what’s wrong with it in the eyes [and often ears] of the genuine audio enthusiast…. :rolleyes:

Marco.

industry - that says it all to me once companies get so big the commercial interests are going to take over its the world we live in
commercial succes and quality just dont go together

[struth]

thats why the likes of Paul should be supported and cheered for his Philosophy.

[Marco]

Absolutomento! :exactly:

Marco.

[Martyn Miles]

Except (and it's a massive "except") that Peter has very little influence on the final design direction of any Wharfedale (or Quad, or luxman or...) which is majorly market/fashion/convenience/accountancy led. Gone are the days where the designer railroaded through what they wanted to see offered to the public. Most designs, from the IAG group will now be "designed by committee" at a wild guess ;)....I spoke with Peter last year and he was sort of bemoaning the fact that he envied many UK cottage industries who still had the freedom to follow their design decisions and beliefs, and not major market forces.

Whoever did design these 80th. Anniversary Dentons knew what they were doing.
Compared with some modern speakers I've heard, these Dentons are so musical.
Is it me, or are many small loudspeakers these days balanced on the bright side of neutral ?
M Miles,.

[Marco]

Nope, it’s not just you. Unfortunately, that’s so often how it is now, to the extent that that style of ‘hyped up’ sonic presentation is considered not only as the norm, but rather worryingly as ‘accurate’! :doh:

What’s interesting, with the Dentons, is that despite them no doubt being born as a corporate-influenced entity, the ‘voicing’ of the loudspeakers has been tailored to sound musical, which indicates that there has been a significant amount of input in the design from someone with good ears.

Let’s always remember that the designing of almost any piece of hi-fi equipment, but in particular loudspeakers, is half science and half ‘art' - and that the latter is, by far, the most difficult part to get right! ;)

Marco.

[southall-1998]

Now I'm getting itchy!

S.

[Marco]

Have you rubbed cream on it today [your rash]? :eyebrows:

Marco.

[southall-1998]

Have you rubbed cream on it today [your rash]? :eyebrows:

Marco.


Naughty boy! :D

S.

[Martyn Miles]

Nope, it’s not just you. Unfortunately, that’s so often how it is now, to the extent that that style of ‘hyped up’ sonic presentation is considered not only as the norm, but rather worryingly as ‘accurate’! :doh:

What’s interesting, with the Dentons, is that despite them no doubt being born as a corporate-influenced entity, the ‘voicing’ of the loudspeakers has been tailored to sound musical, which indicates that there has been a significant amount of input in the design from someone with good ears.

Marco.

Yes, Marco, you are doubtless correct.
I was very surprised how musical these Dentons are.
Going back to 'modern' loudspeakers, even some very expensive ones sound excessively bright.
For somebody who goes to listens to live music, records it and lives with it, the present day speakers don't seem to be based on music !
M Miles.

[hifi_dave]

I despair with the majority of modern speakers with their sucked out mid-band and elevated HF. I guess they are designed to stand out in a comparative demo where the loudest and brightest wins..:confused:

[southall-1998]

Well, I better give these 'modern' Dentons some thought!

S.

[walpurgis]

Well, I better give these 'modern' Dentons some thought!

S.

Nah. Just get some Usher S520s.

[southall-1998]

Nah. Just get some Usher S520s.


Nah. Would more likely be ProAc One SC!

S.

[walpurgis]

Nah. Would more likely be ProAc One SC!

S.

Only if you want to spend three times as much on something very similar. ;)

[southall-1998]

Only if you want to spend three times as much on something very similar. ;)

Hmmmmm!

S.

[Martyn Miles]

Nah. Just get some Usher S520s.

Describe what is so good about Usher loudspeakers, please.

[walpurgis]

Describe what is so good about Usher loudspeakers, please.

They're jolly nice! :)

[southall-1998]

:lol:, Geoff!

S.

[Martyn Miles]

This is turning into another 'let's discuss one loudspeaker after another thread.'
It seems to happen an awful lot on TAOS Forum.

We all like/prefer different loudspeakers.
On PFM there is the 'Naim camp', the 'BBC neutrality camp' and the 'Rock Music speaker camp.'
Let's not have this Forum going the same way...

[Marco]

Not sure what you’re getting at Martyn… Folk are simply having a chat about some different speakers - a little bit of thread drift, that’s all. It happens, often when the original thread topic has run its course (although I’m not saying that’s necessarily the case here) :)

Marco.

[Ammonite Audio]

I despair with the majority of modern speakers with their sucked out mid-band and elevated HF. I guess they are designed to stand out in a comparative demo where the loudest and brightest wins..:confused:

As we get older, we naturally lose some hearing acuity; and repeated exposure to loud noises will typically impact on the the ear's response to mid (speech) frequencies. Paradoxically, in spite of generally poorer hearing in simple audiomteric terms, older people can also become sensitised to higher frequency sounds.

So, it could be you!

[Marco]

Lol… No doubt there’s something in that, Hugo. However, I’ve held the same opinion as Dave (in that respect) for about 20 years, so I think there’s a bit more to it than that! ;)

Marco.

[hifi_dave]

As we get older, we naturally lose some hearing acuity; and repeated exposure to loud noises will typically impact on the the ear's response to mid (speech) frequencies. Paradoxically, in spite of generally poorer hearing in simple audiomteric terms, older people can also become sensitised to higher frequency sounds.

So, it could be you!

Could be, though it's the opinion of the majority of my customers. This is backed up by numerous reviews in the mags over the past few years with subjective comments and frequency response curves. The upwards trend is very apparent if you care to peruse physical mags and online reviews, where plots have been taken.

[Reffc]

Could be, though it's the opinion of the majority of my customers. This is backed up by numerous reviews in the mags over the past few years with subjective comments and frequency response curves. The upwards trend is very apparent if you care to peruse physical mags and online reviews, where plots have been taken.

I tend to agree David. Many modern speaker use "smiley face" tuning, like a permananet loudness button which works well at lower listening volumes (Fletcher Musnson) but becomes fatiguing at higher volumes.

Oddly, there's a trend, particularly in modern smaller stand mounts (like the little Dalis at the Bristol Show) for exactly the opposite, ie elevated mid band, which is even worse! It makes the speakers sound way too forward and may be an attempt at masking poor bass performance.

The reality with tuning is that it really doen't matter that much if FR levels are elevated above 15Khz, because even if your hearing is good, it is less sensitive at this level so elevated HF tuning in itself wont drasticaly alter how a speaker sounds higher up in the frequency band. Elevated levels in the mid range and lower HF are much more noticeable and objectionable. One db elevated between say 2khz and 10KHz isn't too bad as it can lend airiness and presence to some designs. I measured a set recently which were elevated by close on 6dB between 500Hz and 3KHz. They were very obviously forward (and objectionable) sounding.

[Martyn Miles]

Not sure what you’re getting at Martyn… Folk are simply having a chat about some different speakers - a little bit of thread drift, that’s all. It happens, often when the original thread topic has run its course (although I’m not saying that’s necessarily the case here) :)

Marco.

OK. I understand.
M Miles

[Marco]

No worries, Martyn. It’s unnatural to keep threads rigidly on-topic, as that’s not how people chat in real life, where subjects discussed can often diversify into different areas. That type of spontaneity is something we like to harness here, and allow to occur naturally, as it keeps things real and contributes towards the friendly vibe.

In that respect, it’s important to realise that AoS functions a real community of audio and music enthusiasts, not merely an Internet ‘bulletin board’…. :)

Marco.

[DSJR]

I still like these - must get 'em down sometime...

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/Denton_zpsmgpj9fnk.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/Denton_zpsmgpj9fnk.jpg.html)

[Martyn Miles]

I still like these - must get 'em down sometime...

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/Denton_zpsmgpj9fnk.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/Denton_zpsmgpj9fnk.jpg.html)

They MUST be old !
M Miles.

[walpurgis]

I still like these - must get 'em down sometime...

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/Denton_zpsmgpj9fnk.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/Denton_zpsmgpj9fnk.jpg.html)

Are they the Denton or Denton 2 Dave?

I have to admit I didn't like any of that circa 1970 range of Wharfedales much, apart from grudging fondness for the Dovedale III. I preferred the Celestions and one or two Goodmans models.

[struth]

Are they the Denton or Denton 2 Dave?

I have to admit I didn't like any of that circa 1970 range of Wharfedales much, apart from grudging fondness for the Dovedale III. I preferred the Celestions and one or two Goodmans models.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RANK-WHARFEDALE-DOVEDALE-3-VINTAGE-SPEAKERS-LARGE-24-TALL-wooden-cabinets-/191496020864?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item2c960d6380

a nice early pair for you Geoff

[DSJR]

They're original Dentons as far as I know (W20 model) with paper cone and huge rubber roll surround and a funky purple cone-dome tweeter. Very nice sounding still. the Denton 2 was very coloured as I remember.

[walpurgis]

They're original Dentons as far as I know (W20 model) with paper cone and huge rubber roll surround and a funky purple cone-dome tweeter. Very nice sounding still. the Denton 2 was very coloured as I remember.

Yeah, I remember that model well. Used them quite a few times. Same tweeter as the Melton.

[Martyn Miles]

They're original Dentons as far as I know (W20 model) with paper cone and huge rubber roll surround and a funky purple cone-dome tweeter. Very nice sounding still. the Denton 2 was very coloured as I remember.

Perhaps I need to buy a pair of the W20 model to complement the 80th. Anniversary models.

[walpurgis]

Perhaps I need to buy a pair of the W20 model to complement the 80th. Anniversary models.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-WHARFEDALE-DENTON-BOOKSHELF-SPEAKERS-incl-WALL-BRACKETS-EXCL-/261788694049?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cf3d27621

[southall-1998]

And in Greenford too :(

S.

[Martyn Miles]

Yes, Marco, you are doubtless correct.
I was very surprised how musical these Dentons are.
Going back to 'modern' loudspeakers, even some very expensive ones sound excessively bright.
For somebody who goes to listens to live music, records it and lives with it, the present day speakers don't seem to be based on music !
M Miles.

I disconnected my Spendor BC1s and gave these little Dentons a very long listening session yesterday.
They really are superb.
Initially I missed the scale the BC1s give, but after about half an hour or so I had fully adjusted to the Dentons.
I won't go into detail, just say that they give a sense of really listening through to the music.
I will be honest and say that I never expected a modern loudspeaker, especially a relatively small one, to be just so good.
M Miles.

[Martyn Miles]

It’s a while since any contribution to this thread, but if anyone is interested I have a pair of 80th Anniversary Dentons
for sale.
Brand new, sealed in the box.
Walnut cabinets.
£340.00

Martyn Miles
MGM Audio.

milesmartyn99@gmail.com

[Pigmy Pony]

It’s a while since any contribution to this thread, but if anyone is interested I have a pair of 80th Anniversary Dentons
for sale.
Brand new, sealed in the box.
Walnut cabinets.
£340.00

Martyn Miles
MGM Audio.

milesmartyn99@gmail.com

You probably need to stick this in Private Exhibitions Martyn. And with some piccies :)

[stevekr]

I've restored an original pair of Denton MK1s. Replaced the the electrolytic capacitors with polyprops from Clarity caps and added some sound dampening bichumin sheets to the internal cabinets, gave the external cabinets a light sanding and a dose of beeswax to get rid of the gunk that had built up.

I love them, no listening fatigue and they just get on with playing music.

The original Dentons were a sealed box design unlike the anniversary edition. I always preferred the bass from sealed box speakers, not as deep or boomy as ported speakers but a bit more tuneful IMHO.

[DSJR]

Are you able to say what the tweaks did before and after? My own W20's sound lovely, but you can't hear 'into' a recorded mix at all really - it's all on the surface, if you see what I mean...

[stevekr]

I made a vid. Here you go https://youtu.be/QDLaRno3RGI