View Full Version : Tdl rtl3 a bargain or not £20
ho folks as title stipulates.
here is what i bought on a whim!!!!!!!:doh:
http://www.gumtree.com/p/speakers/large-speakers/1100464822
pics to follow
Hell yes.
Saying that, theres always that other pair of £20 speakers....
*EDIT*
Looked closer at the photo..is that a sub between the speakers FFS!!
walpurgis
13-02-2015, 22:37
Are those the original tweeters?
Hell yes, a friend had these and they were very good - great bass and good imaging. No brainer for that amount!
Ninanina
14-02-2015, 00:21
£20 for a pair of speakers has to be a bargain... well done Dick... nice one :)
Think they were the reincarnation of IMF if memory serves....not as good but still pretty decent and for 20 squids it has to be a top bargain.
Floyddroid
14-02-2015, 06:10
Yes indeed they are. They are a great little speaker and yes Grant, they are a descendant of the wonderful and often wildly under appreciated IMF company. Time should be taken to re-wire them internally as this was their largest flaw. Great speaker for silly money even when they were new. dealers hated them because they could upstage more expensive speakers in their shops at three times the price. Plug em in and enjoy them. well done. :guitar:
Are those the original tweeters?
Doesn't look like it to me Geoff. Those look like later replacements. Woofers look original. Still, an absolute bargain for a classic little speaker design ;)
walpurgis
14-02-2015, 13:15
Doesn't look like it to me Geoff. Those look like later replacements. Woofers look original. Still, an absolute bargain for a classic little speaker design ;)
I'm pretty sure I recognise the tweeters. They were sold by Henry's Electronics (amongst others) years ago and are from the far east. They have a perforated metal dome 'phase corrector/diffuser' over an aluminium diaphragm. They didn't sound too bad as I recall and maybe they are OK in these speakers.
well done for spotting tweeter discrepency.
i realised this after plugging them in and not working.
the replacements are ALTAI DMT-100 ????
GOOGLE NOT THROWING MUCH UP
a few images but i reckon they are all the same made in taiwan
dantax dmt-100
bell dmt-100
mg electronics dmt-100
the tweeters are working but the crossovers are fried tried uploading photographs last night by the time i finished my post went missing, same again this morning ???
sent an e-mail to a bloke in america he is selling 6 of these about 49 dollars each, asking him what they are out of, see if he replies
Yes, they are 8 Ohm DMT100 tweeters. Possibly MG DT100s, made in Taiwan (not to be confused with current DT series tweeters...which incidentally would be a great replacement with the DT300). Personally, I'd go with the DT300 tweeter as a replacement if needed. Nice low Fs, wide dispersion, excellent off axis behaviour too.
walpurgis
14-02-2015, 16:16
It shouldn't be too difficult to track down a used pair of original tweeters. The knackered crossovers are probably what fried them.
walpurgis
14-02-2015, 16:18
sent an e-mail to a bloke in america he is selling 6 of these about 49 dollars each, asking him what they are out of, see if he replies
When on the UK market, they were one of the cheapest tweeters about. Not badly made though, they were about £8 new. I'd source originals myself.
http://www.oaktreevintage.com/web_photos/Speaker_Parts/MG_DMT-100_Dome_Tweeter.jpg
When on the UK market, they were one of the cheapest tweeters about. Not badly made though, they were about £8 new. I'd source originals myself.
http://www.oaktreevintage.com/web_photos/Speaker_Parts/MG_DMT-100_Dome_Tweeter.jpg
It's all personal preference of course, but the originals weren't anything special imho and there's actually much better about these days at budget money, so if they need replacing, I'd recommend either the DT300 or the SEAS 27TFC or 29 TAF. Agree on the crossover issue. Well worth refreshing the caps if not already done.
The originals were small Vifa's if memory serves and Rega used to use them in the Kyte/Ara, EL8/Ara and so on.
The main 'issue' with the RTL3 apart from odd shape is the impedance curve. There's a resistor across one of the bass inductors (can't remember the value but 5 ohm sounds familiar). This pulls the upper midrange down and lowers the impedance quite a lot. Increasing this value to around 30 or 33 ohms lifts the midrange, taking the sound out of the boxes and balances the speakers rather better IMO, also giving an easier load to the amp. The boxes are rigid enough to allow this without extra colouration. A good by-product is that the stock tweeter is better balanced with the mid and sounds smoother as a result.
The later series 2 RTL's improved the visuals but ruined the sound - and all because of WTF magazine raving about the AE109, which had a severe tweeter level problem designed in. The RTL 'SE' models tried to mimic this and died a death as a result I remember.
fatmarley
14-02-2015, 19:49
A bit of Googling suggests the original tweeter is a Vifa D20TD-05-06. According to Wilmslow the Seas 19TFF1 is a good replacement for the tweeter in the old TDL RTL range of speakers - LINK (http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/seas-19tff1---h0737-08-811-p.asp).
The originals were small Vifa's if memory serves and Rega used to use them in the Kyte/Ara, EL8/Ara and so on.
The main 'issue' with the RTL3 apart from odd shape is the impedance curve. There's a resistor across one of the bass inductors (can't remember the value but 5 ohm sounds familiar). This pulls the upper midrange down and lowers the impedance quite a lot. Increasing this value to around 30 or 33 ohms lifts the midrange, taking the sound out of the boxes and balances the speakers rather better IMO, also giving an easier load to the amp. The boxes are rigid enough to allow this without extra colouration. A good by-product is that the stock tweeter is better balanced with the mid and sounds smoother as a result.
The later series 2 RTL's improved the visuals but ruined the sound - and all because of WTF magazine raving about the AE109, which had a severe tweeter level problem designed in. The RTL 'SE' models tried to mimic this and died a death as a result I remember.
It was a 10 Ohm resistor after the filter designed to pad down the impedance/acoustic rise to help flatten the summed response. Changing that as you suggest will alter the crossover point appreciably enough to mess up phase and acoustic response. Best left as the designer intended (it was there for a reason) or re-design the crossover from scratch as lifting the load impedance will require a change of inductor and capacitor values. From memory, the "fault" if it can be called that, was with the tweeter. Imho, it was voiced too brightly and benefited from the addition of a series resistor before the filter or an L-pad after it. That's all the design really needed, either option not requiring a change of filter values.
Hi Dave, Eventually i have found the right thread. Just joined and put all my blog on the welcome about my anticipations for help upgrading my TDL RTL3.
Cut a long thread short, I want to upgrade...capacitors,maybe tweeters,line cabinets, refit wadding, etc.
This is all probable advice but not sure how to go about it. I have used a soldering iron..and willing to have a go.
All I want is a map. Regards Dave.
Martyn Miles
05-03-2015, 06:45
Re. The tweeters, it may be worth contacting Falcon Acoustics as they have a lot of info. on IMFs.
They may be able to recommend suitable replacements.
M Miles.
All IMF (with the exception of the Audax/IMF TW1500F), early TDL drive units, and also some Monitor Audio drive units were manufactured by ELAC in the UK in Tottenham London and Bridgend Wales. ELAC made a wide range of drive units, over 3,000,000 a year, both for the OEM hifi industry and also for car audio. These were invariably rebadged by the speaker manufacturer. Data on the various ELAC models has always been very hard to obtain, and the Datasheet available by clicking on the catalogue cover above is collated from ELAC datasheets and printouts
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.falconacoustics.co.uk%2Ffalco n-archive-links-history-tips%2Ffalcon-acoustics-archive%2Fimf-tdl-drive-unit-elac.html&ei=Nb_5VPiIA4zAPI7SgYgK&usg=AFQjCNGm2tc6u_krYkGCSsyNont8wTe3Sg
tdl rtl3 do not have monacor sph-175 drive units that is banded about on the internet.
they are elac drivers information can be found on below link
http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/downloads/Elacimftdl.pdf
fitted to my tdl rtl3 are NS-172-06 cant find parameters for this particular driver (so is NS-172-05 DATA TO BE SUMMISED) ??? from the above link
wilmslow audio do a rtl3 style speaker to incorporate the shp-175
hope this helps future tdl rtl3 owners eeking out further information
I had some TDL RTL2's from new (my step son has them now). They served me well. Good stereo imaging and fabulous bass. Not the amount of bass, but rather the range of bass. They go very low, but it matches the rest of the sound, and never over-powers the rest of the presentation.
However, the Heybrook HB1's that I bought for a fiver on ebay were better (after I fitted new bass units), and started my love of stand mounted speakers.
Still, for £20, I think the RTL3's will be an excellent buy.
Martyn Miles
07-03-2015, 20:49
I had some TDL RTL2's from new (my step son has them now). They served me well. Good stereo imaging and fabulous bass. Not the amount of bass, but rather the range of bass. They go very low, but it matches the rest of the sound, and never over-powers the rest of the presentation.
However, the Heybrook HB1's that I bought for a fiver on ebay were better (after I fitted new bass units), and started my love of stand mounted speakers.
Still, for £20, I think the RTL3's will be an excellent buy.
A friend had some RTL2s. I liked them, but preferred my Spendor BC1s...
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