Quad Question?

[dantheman91]

Hi Guys

I recently read somewhere that some old quads do have balance differences is this true with the 33 & 303? i am asking this question for a friend the left speaker on his system is a bit louder then the right but turn the volume up a nudge it levels out past 2 Ish could this be a speaker fault the amplifier has been serviced and given a clean bill of health although on other amplifiers the sound is level equal on both channels puzzling this one. Any thoughts?

[The Barbarian]

Im not sure what you mean but most old amps will see an unequal channel output compared to the other at really low level.

[dantheman91]

Im not sure what you mean but most old amps will see an unequal channel output compared to the other at really low level.


Hi Dude.

So basically normal then? The speakers work fine on other amplifiers one being a Rega Brio R. Also thinking it could be room acoustics more reflective one side then the other so something to worry about or it otherwise works fine i could be him thinking to much into it.:scratch: The his volume knob on the 33 is a little stiff compared with mine maybe it just needs some use as its boxed up most of the time.:(. I'm confusing myself with this one :lol:

[Valvebloke]

Hi Guys

I recently read somewhere that some old quads do have balance differences is this true with the 33 & 303? i am asking this question for a friend the left speaker on his system is a bit louder then the right but turn the volume up a nudge it levels out past 2 Ish could this be a speaker fault the amplifier has been serviced and given a clean bill of health although on other amplifiers the sound is level equal on both channels puzzling this one. Any thoughts?

At very low levels the matching between the left and right tracks of a volume pot can be surprisingly bad although it tends to improve as you turn the volume up, which sounds like your experience. The problem in that case would be in the 33 though, not the 303. If you swap the speakers over and the problem stays with the same channel then you'll have eliminated the speakers as a possibility. If you can find a way of swapping the channels into the 303 then that would allow you to eliminate the power amp (or blame it if swapping its inputs leaves the problem where it was). If you're getting a volume mismatch at low volume which fixes itself at higher volume though, and if there are no other major problems (i.e. distortion) with the sound then I'd bet a small sum that it's the volume pot that's gone sick.

VB

[The Barbarian]

Dan do what im gonna do. Build an outboard PSU for the 33 Which carries the power switch. You can then just replace the original Switched Volume potentiometer with a modern more well matched replacement.. Ive always been a fan of using Linear pots with LFR, Linear are more accurate at low levels..

[awkwardbydesign]

Dan do what im gonna do. Build an outboard PSU for the 33 Which carries the power switch. You can then just replace the original Switched Volume potentiometer with a modern more well matched replacement.. Ive always been a fan of using Linear pots with LFR, Linear are more accurate at low levels..

I thought that, but when I did it on my LDR pre, the sound quality deteriorated markedly. Don't ask me why.

[montesquieu]

Compared to the speakers and the power amp, the 33 is a bit rubbish, frankly. Can you borrow a passive pot and see if that works better? (It probably will). If your friend has plenty gain in the system a highish gain active pre like the 33 will probably just cause him grief anyway.

[The Barbarian]

Dan AOS is hardly the place to mention the '33' cos were off pulling it down already. Really get my goat.

[Gordon Steadman]

Compared to the speakers and the power amp, the 33 is a bit rubbish, frankly. Can you borrow a passive pot and see if that works better? (It probably will). If your friend has plenty gain in the system a highish gain active pre like the 33 will probably just cause him grief anyway.


This is rubbish, frankly:ner:

[montesquieu]

Dan AOS is hardly the place to mention the '33' cos were off pulling it down already. Really get my goat.

I only said 'by comparison'. the Quad ESLs are world class, the 303 a good power amp by any standards, the 33 ... well the years haven't been quite so kind.

I have owned at least a couple of them BTW!

The 34 is a considerable step-up in quality.

[Gordon Steadman]

I only said 'by comparison'. the Quad ESLs are world class, the 303 a good power amp by any standards, the 33 ... well the years haven't been quite so kind.

I have owned at least a couple of them BTW!

The 34 is a considerable step-up in quality.

Well, I realise that this goes against the usual mantra but......I have the 57s, the 33 and 34. Todays testing showed that the differences are subtle at best and depend on mood at worst. I was listening to both preamps on phone, the Quads and on some big old box thingies. Yes I prefer the 34 but only just.

As far as the important stuff is concerned i.e. the way it looks, the 33 is the best looking preamp ever made. A night and day difference over the opposition one might say:lol:

[The Barbarian]

A re-cap & PSU upgrade to the '33' i believe it has the edge.. Deffo the greatest ever looking pre

[Floyddroid]

Quad 33 eh! more a 44 lover myself.

[Floyddroid]

Mmm, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. In much the same way as say a Rover 2000 V8 or a lava lamp. Over the years i must have heard quite a few Quad amplifiers. Most of them sounding a little on the safe side but ultimately pretty good. Adding power supplies and new components can breathe new life into them in much the same way as the now venerable Technics SL1210. I personally see the Quad 33 as the Morris Minor of pre amps and pimping it to sound better can only be a good thing. The problem is that you can get into the "Triggers's new broom" scenario were he once said that he had the same broom for over twenty years though it had it's head replaced numerous times and umpteen new shafts. Personally i think it's a great thing to do to ressurect vintage equipment building on their appearance and style though authenticity has to give way to common sense. Their original sonic signature resigned to history, how many of us possess the ability of hearing them the way that they were when they were first built let alone the decay brought about by years of heat, cold, moisture and vibration. I've always thought that Quad excelled at building power amps though despite their cute looks could never match that skill when it came to pre amps. As forest Gump says, "That's all i gots to say about that".
A re-cap & PSU upgrade to the '33' i believe it has the edge.. Deffo the greatest ever looking pre

[walpurgis]

What's a Rover 2000 V8? They never made one.

The 2000 stands for the engine size. The V8 was the 3500. I had the 3500S many years ago (and a 3.5 P5 Coupe). Didn't reckon much on them.

[RichB]

Mmm, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. In much the same way as say a Rover 2000 V8 or a lava lamp. Over the years i must have heard quite a few Quad amplifiers. Most of them sounding a little on the safe side but ultimately pretty good. Adding power supplies and new components can breathe new life into them in much the same way as the now venerable Technics SL1210. I personally see the Quad 33 as the Morris Minor of pre amps and pimping it to sound better can only be a good thing. The problem is that you can get into the "Triggers's new broom" scenario were he once said that he had the same broom for over twenty years though it had it's head replaced numerous times and umpteen new shafts. Personally i think it's a great thing to do to ressurect vintage equipment building on their appearance and style though authenticity has to give way to common sense. Their original sonic signature resigned to history, how many of us possess the ability of hearing them the way that they were when they were first built let alone the decay brought about by years of heat, cold, moisture and vibration. I've always thought that Quad excelled at building power amps though despite their cute looks could never match that skill when it came to pre amps. As forest Gump says, "That's all i gots to say about that".

Haha, I've been thinking of getting a decal for my techie made in the same font saying 'Trigger's Broom'

[The Barbarian]

What's a Rover 2000 V8? They never made one.

The 2000 stands for the engine size. The V8 was the 3500. I had the 3500S many years ago (and a 3.5 P5 Coupe). Didn't reckon much on them.

Great cars those 'P6' Last proper Rover imho..

[Gordon Steadman]

I think it would be best to just say that many of us like different sounds and stop writing off quality gear as old hat or pipe and slippers. I really hate a lot of 'modern' hi-fi as its just too in yer face and insistent for me. Quad stuff and its ilk sound just right to me, I like subtlety and tonal accuracy.

Suggesting that the 33 is not worth bothering with is total nonsense as far as I'm concerned. The only way to choose equipment is to listen to it. OK some people read the forums to get some sort of guidance but it has its dangers because a lot of opinions are based on urban myths and not personal experience. How can it be. No-one can possibly have hear the vast numbers of amps etc out there. The whole flat earth thing showed how a few opinions can sway a generation of listeners.

I've been listening to hi-fi for over 50 years and have done the whole range from cheap crap to stupidly expensive. However, that gives me no right to offer guidance for someone else's ears.

[StanleyB]

What's a Rover 2000 V8? They never made one.

The 2000 stands for the engine size. The V8 was the 3500. I had the 3500S many years ago (and a 3.5 P5 Coupe). Didn't reckon much on them.

You nearly had me fooled. But I do remember the 2000 V8 just about.
http://www.tradeuniquecars.com.au/buyers-guide/1411/rover-2000-3500-v8-buyers-guide/

[Clive197]

To answer the OP's original question (which, surprisingly no one else has mentioned), the Quad 33 Preamp does have a balance control. It is a sliding pot which from memory is below the volume control on the left hand facing side.

Clive

[dantheman91]

To answer the OP's original question (which, surprisingly no one else has mentioned), the Quad 33 Preamp does have a balance control. It is a sliding pot which from memory is below the volume control on the left hand facing side.

Clive

Hi Clive

Thanks, Yes the balance control works fine on his 33 when slid to the left the volume goes up a little and its the same to the right as its meant to i believe:) The question is at a low volume below 1 its not quiet level but move it up to 1 and a bit its fine he says.

Thanks you.

[montesquieu]

Hi Clive

Thanks, Yes the balance control works fine on his 33 when slid to the left the volume goes up a little and its the same to the right as its meant to i believe:) The question is at a low volume below 1 its not quiet level but move it up to 1 and a bit its fine he says.

Thanks you.



There are two issues here

1) If he has to have the volume down at 1 then there is too much gain in the system to control the level adequately. The 33 has a fair amount of gain, as sources back than often didn't and they needed a bit of help (in contrast to modern CDPs, DACs etc).

2) As has been stated above, many volume pots don't work well in the nearly off position, especially when they are getting on a bit - level mismatch evens out as you go up.

I would try a passive pot in this scenario. (As I stated above). I am also firmly of the view that the 33 is the weak link here in an ESL/303 setup - amps and speakers have barely moved on since the old days (moved backwards in some cases), but today's preamps are a different story.

[dantheman91]

[QUOTE=montesquieu;620365]There are two issues here

1) If he has to have the volume down at 1 then there is too much gain in the system to control the level adequately. The 33 has a fair amount of gain, as sources back than often didn't and they needed a bit of help (in contrast to modern CDPs, DACs etc).

2) As has been stated above, many volume pots don't work well in the nearly off position, especially when they are getting on a bit - level mismatch evens out as you go up.



Hi Tom,

Their isn't too much gain in his system its just to see if it was OK at that level but its a silly level to be listening to anyway but question answered though to no problem he's a fussy sod :lol:. If their was to much gain he would know. :) i can now answer his question its perfectly normal.:)

Its a pitty you dont think much of the 33 its a PRETTY thing though. :D

[montesquieu]

[QUOTE=montesquieu;620365]There are two issues here

1) If he has to have the volume down at 1 then there is too much gain in the system to control the level adequately. The 33 has a fair amount of gain, as sources back than often didn't and they needed a bit of help (in contrast to modern CDPs, DACs etc).

2) As has been stated above, many volume pots don't work well in the nearly off position, especially when they are getting on a bit - level mismatch evens out as you go up.



Hi Tom,

Their isn't too much gain in his system its just to see if it was OK at that level but its a silly level to be listening to anyway but question answered though to no problem he's a fussy sod :lol:. If their was to much gain he would know. :) i can now answer his question its perfectly normal.:)

Its a pitty you dont think much of the 33 its a PRETTY thing though. :D



Understood. Typical OCD nonsense. We all have it to a degree!

Actually I've had a couple of 33s and agree on the looks!

[The Barbarian]

To answer the OP's original question (which, surprisingly no one else has mentioned), the Quad 33 Preamp does have a balance control. It is a sliding pot which from memory is below the volume control on the left hand facing side.

Clive

Thats correct which works from the pot via an aluminium lever.

[Floyddroid]

I stand corrected Geoff. Hopefully this didn't distract the point i was making.
What's a Rover 2000 V8? They never made one.

The 2000 stands for the engine size. The V8 was the 3500. I had the 3500S many years ago (and a 3.5 P5 Coupe). Didn't reckon much on them.

[walpurgis]

I stand corrected Geoff. Hopefully this didn't distract the point i was making.

Nope. But I do know my cars. :)

[montesquieu]

Nope. But I do know my cars. :)

Never managed a 3500 V8 myself, had a couple of 2000 (SC and TC) and a 2200 (all of which were TC if I'm not mistaken.

My favourte bit of these cars was the flat shelf at the front, with rubber dimples on. Could put anything there and it wouldn't slide around. Brilliantly practical.

Complicated rear suspension though I think that's what killed a couple of mine at MOT.

[Desmo]

My favourite feature was the ribbon speedometer on my early 2000SC. Very futuristic! My car was in brigade red with a black leather interior, a very nice combination, and though it was 'only' the SC version, it still drove very well and was quite nippy.

[Desmo]

Complicated rear suspension though I think that's what killed a couple of mine at MOT.

It used a De Dion rear suspension which was pretty advanced for a road car at the time, I'm not sure that it was too complicated, more the fact that, like the inboard rear disc brakes, the average mechanic was just not familiar with that kind of set up. Rear brake pad changes were a pain, most other road cars still used drum brakes at the rear in those days.

[mikmas]

Hi Guys

I recently read somewhere that some old quads do have balance differences is this true with the 33 & 303? i am asking this question for a friend the left speaker on his system is a bit louder then the right but turn the volume up a nudge it levels out past 2 Ish could this be a speaker fault the amplifier has been serviced and given a clean bill of health although on other amplifiers the sound is level equal on both channels puzzling this one. Any thoughts?

responding to your original question...
Having just fully restored a Quad 33 that had exactly that problem I can bet that a judicious squirt of Servisol to the volume and balance pots will cure it (use very sparingly though). A lot cheaper than binning it and buying new.

If the amp has been stood inactive a good time (as mine was too) then odds are this will cure it. I spent a long time replacing parts and doing this and that and even bought a 34 out of sheer frustration (and regretted it) but in the end I persevered and am so glad I did. The 33 has a unique and beautiful sound with the 303 that I wouldn't miss for the world.......

[DSJR]

Compared to the speakers and the power amp, the 33 is a bit rubbish, frankly. Can you borrow a passive pot and see if that works better? (It probably will). If your friend has plenty gain in the system a highish gain active pre like the 33 will probably just cause him grief anyway.

The 33 is most certainly NOT rubbish, but it does alter the signal fed it a little (no worse than a typical ARC or CJ, just different, that's all!)

I did the Dada mods to mine and it worked a treat, closing the gap quite a bit. HOWEVER, the 303 really does work superbly well with a passive pre, as it's sensitive enough and has a fairly high input impedance (if that actually matters, I'm not sure these days). In addition to the ones I put together, there is the cheaper Tisbury, which is well worth a try. Separate phono stages of good basic quality can be got for not too much dosh, should you need one.

[The Barbarian]

I spent a long time replacing parts and doing this and that and even bought a 34 out of sheer frustration (and regretted it) but in the end I persevered and am so glad I did. The 33 has a unique and beautiful sound with the 303 that I wouldn't miss for the world.......

:more:


The 33 is most certainly NOT rubbish, but it does alter the signal fed it a little (no worse than a typical ARC or CJ, just different, that's all!)
Separate phono stages of goos basic quality can be got for not too much dosh, should you need one.

:thumbsup: I got plans for my 2nd '33' this year, total rebuild, new PSU & also a Outboard phonostage.Bypass the one in the '33'

[Pete The Cat]

I have a late 60s 33 last serviced by Quad in the early 80s. Their looks are fabulous and at typical second hand prices they're a bargain. But I've also tried a 34 and an Exposure VII, each of early 80s vintage, into my 405 and I'm afraid they both left the 33 at the starting line sonically. No doubt with new parts or a more recent service the situation could be different, and there are various well reviewed mods out there. This is just my observation on an old, stock unit - and yet I wouldn't part with it since it's iconic.

Pete

[The Barbarian]

Hi Pete
That is the observation from a lot of people However you right a total rebuild & a little un-harmful mod here & there they truly are a different pre.

[RSDJ]

The 33 is most certainly NOT rubbish, but it does alter the signal fed it a little (no worse than a typical ARC or CJ, just different, that's all!)

I did the Dada mods to mine and it worked a treat, closing the gap quite a bit. HOWEVER, the 303 really does work superbly well with a passive pre, as it's sensitive enough and has a fairly high input impedance (if that actually matters, I'm not sure these days). In addition to the ones I put together, there is the cheaper Tisbury, which is well worth a try. Separate phono stages of good basic quality can be got for not too much dosh, should you need one.

Blasphemy indeed. The great Sage Walker is also known as "The infallible one" in high circles. The 33 is an ancient jewel awakened to its divine nature by the holy Dada.

[walpurgis]

The 33 is a worthy old champion, but tired and clouded now. Defeat is long past. New lights shine brighter.

[RSDJ]

The 33 is a worthy old champion, but tired and clouded now. Defeat is long past. New lights shine brighter.

With age comes wisdom. The mighty Quad is imbued with the spirit of the ages and only strengthened by the Holy Dada. You have failed to see this truth. I prescribe a week of cold showers at the breaking of the dawn to clear your negative energy.

Lest we forget the wisdom of the venerable Ridley Scott, the light that burns twice as bright, lasts only half as long.

Nevertheless, some new lights may indeed burn brighter, so I feel there is hope for you on your path to enlightenment after all. The road to enhanced clarity can be sought from adoption of a "Passive" stance. Reach beyond the level of the venerable Sensei Walker's teachings by seeking the works of the great Tai Chi Dun. Surely a figure of Envy, eh?

[Barry]

What are your thoughts concerning the Crown (Amcron) D75 power amps O Inscrutible One?

[RSDJ]

Your wisdom is evident, the Crown is like the lotus flower atop the highest peak. A rare and undiscovered bloom that only the few seek out and only the very enlightened can treasure.

[DSJR]

The D-75 was more modern in construction than the D-60's I have.

By the way chaps, the passive pre I've recommended for the Quad is the TISBURY! - ...which is not expensive and seemingly very well made.

[montesquieu]

Guess what I just picked up?

Yes, a 33/303 combo. :lol:

Might have a think about having the 33 mods done (can anyone point to info?)

[The Barbarian]

:respect:

http://www.net-audio.co.uk/