BBC change radio streaming services

[badsoden]

Noticed this with 6 Music on my Squeezebox Radios but thought it was a temporary fault. It would appear the BBC have updated their radio streaming services and killed off quite a few devices that relied on the old setup in the process.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/977a1954-658f-4fb2-a23c-71680c49882f?comments_page=2&initial_page_size=20&filter=none&sortBy=Created&sortOrder=Descending#comments

Posts on the slimdevices forum

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?53229-Announce-BBCiPlayer-Plugin-(UK-only)/page211

Hopefully a resolution will be found.

[Stratmangler]

Ironically enough I found that pointing my Squeezeboxes off local network to www.mysqueezebox.com and using the BBC app installed there gets around the problem for the time being.

The lack of access by other routes via Squeezebox is solely down to the BBC fucking about and changing the delivery of their radio streams for no particularly great reason - to say I am very pissed off with the situation would be to put things very mildly.
As a license payer I am extremely pissed off that my radio content delivery has been screwed up hugely :steam:

[Audio Advent]

Their reasons it seems (from the link above) is that the systems/software used to stream the old way are no-longer supported by their manufacturers and that's a big problem for any big corporation. Moving over to new systems/software to perform the legacy function while new tech is moving away from that old method would take a lot of effort and might seem a bit of a folly. Was good in the old days I guess of systems like Ceefax running much longer than anyone would have thought, but now we have politicians like those in the Conservatives who want every public service to be streamlined and based on a private-company, "let the markets decide" model. Sadly much of the public think this way too now..

Neo-liberalism has turned off your radio stream!

Regarding your licence fee: "Sadly, we cannot afford to support every service on all the existing legacy formats." (from the link above) and therefore this change is aimed at making your licence fee stretch further and serve more people better (rather than spreading it thin and doing a poor job for everybody). I sympathise with their position.

I'd say the problem is having internet connected gear at home which is no-longer supported by it's manufacturer (Squeezebox) in an ever-changing internet world! They should be providing software updates which allow it to keep up. I don't like stand-alone units like that for pretty much that reason - PC only or at least a device running software which has continuing support (which even then you can't predict the longevity of). It also highlights the problems with digital streaming of anything like Spotify as anything can happen which then takes your music away, be it legal wranglings, the company moving in a new direction etc etc

[Audio Advent]

As you say, I bet you websites will pop up offering to re-stream the services in compatible formats, shouldn't cause anything but a delay in transmission..

[lurcher]

Their reasons it seems (from the link above) is that the systems/software used to stream the old way are no-longer supported by their manufacturers and that's a big problem for any big corporation.

Except until not that long ago, the BBC would have defined their own format, developed that and supported that so it became an open standard (or used a existing open standard), rather that relying on some propitiatory format that leaves them under the control of one or more suppliers.

(not that I have looked into what they have changed to)

[badsoden]

I can understand the need for change and the move to newer technologies but this has been handled very badly. There are a lot of people who use devices to stream BBC radio that have suddenly lost that capability. You can switch to a different feed but its a lower quality MP3 feed that seems to be a temporary thing anyway and sounds awful through my Touch. The BBC say they informed all the big players but as for as I can tell from reading around the net the information they put forward was very vague and made it sound like the new service would just stream AAC in a way that was compatible. Although I haven't seen the communications they sent out so this could just be the hardware vendors being caught out!

In the case of squeezebox where its a community its a little different but I suspect/hope Triode will come to the rescue on that one.

[Audio Advent]

Youtube and every other website using Flash moved to a version higher than the last support for my phone.. Did I complain to Youtube and insist they support old versions of flash and therefore legacy equipment? No, I got a new phone because it was no longer supported and I understand that the nature of the internet is an evolving one. If the BBC came up with it's own codec at great expense, it would NOT be carried by equipment manufacturers because they will chose those being used already by Apple, Google and Microsoft, so it would be a great flop. This is the internet age and the BBC is really only a content creator now, not a tech firm.

The statement talking about the change also brings up cuts to their funding - that is a direct result of Tory ideology that the public sector should be cut and moved to the competitive world of private sector and so the BBC should fend for itself. That means it definately can't spend on R&D any more! Forced to look for value for money instead at the expense of long-term support. Tory voters can pat themselves on the back (or smack themselves on the botty) for that one.

[lurcher]

Youtube and every other website using Flash moved to a version higher than the last support for my phone.. Did I complain to Youtube and insist they support old versions of flash and therefore legacy equipment? No, I got a new phone because it was no longer supported and I understand that the nature of the internet is an evolving one. If the BBC came up with it's own codec at great expense, it would NOT be carried by equipment manufacturers because they will chose those being used already by Apple, Google and Microsoft, so it would be a great flop. This is the internet age and the BBC is really only a content creator now, not a tech firm.


Well, the BBC can just use an existing open one then. Just the same as youtube and flash. They stopped supporting flash on many devices, so you just switch to using the HTML5 Player. Part of the internet is evolving quickly, but not all, the bits that make it work have not changed much since the early days, its still built on RFC's that are as constant and open as ever.

Just buying a new phone because of a change in protocol is exactly why its a bad thing to use closed standards. Phone company have no incentive to support changed standard in old hardware as by doing that they force users to buy new ones. If the standard is open, if the phone makers wont support it, someone else will do.

[Audio Advent]

They need to choose codecs which run easily on the devices the majority of their users actually use. Lack of ease of use effectively means people don't use the service - that's how it is. Open standards aren't actually that common on devices like iPads, iPhones and Android devices unless you're relatively techy and set out to find the right app - that's not most people, too complicated. Read reviews of new devices and you'll see great products being slated because they made things difficult or didn't support the common standards which everyone else uses. BBC being subjected to market pressures because of budget restraints means they have to follow suit and choose to spend their money say on the 3 most popular and which look to be supported into the future by new devices. Windows Media use will definately decline further than the 2-5% it already is at and so it's not worth investing loads to support fewer and fewer people. I'm sure if you were in the right meetings and were presented with the cost of supporting those dwindling numbers you would also balk at the cost and make the same decision.

It was the third party taking their support away which triggered this and was the same with my phone - Adobe stopping support, not the phone manufacturer, hence the clunky analogy. Logitech should support their Squeezbox devices and update the software to accept other codecs, but I can't see that happening because they've dropped the product - hence why people are surely focusing their frustration at the wrong people. Sonos will no-doubt do the same. But it's daft that they don't provide regular updates and provide support for more and more codecs each time, covering all bases.

[badsoden]

Over on the slimdevices forum a solution has been found that allows you to play the new HLS streams from the BBC. It involves added another codec to your Squeezebox server, installing another plugin and manually adding the HLS URLs to your favourites. For anyone using Triode's iPlayer app there is also a way to get that working as well. I've implemented the changes and am happily receiving good quality radio feeds from the BBC again.

Am I allowed to add a link to the slimdevices forum if anyone wants it?

[StanleyB]

The BBC has responded to the complaints. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31487515

[Stratmangler]

I spotted this ironic gem of a comment ...

Logitech Squeezebox owners should soon be able to access these services fully again, added Mr Webster
It's ironic because the Beeb definitely didn't give a rat's arse about Squeezebox users accessing iPlayer a few short years ago and they seemed to actively change things on a regular basis just to cause disruption of service.
All of a sudden the Squeezebox is a rallying point for salvation. The very strength of the Squeezebox is the external server program, and that is something developed by a talented community of programmers who participate because they want to, not because they get paid to do it.

[Krisbee]

The BBC has responded to the complaints. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31487515

What a whitewash! Read this: http://www.overgrownpath.com/2015/02/why-bbcs-radio-strategy-does-not-make.html

[struth]

I would be quite happy now to see the bbc cut loose and on their own; no licence money. They used to be an institution and did wonderful programming but I have to say they don't do much that others cant do, and they HAVE to listen to their customers.

[AlexM]

Over on the slimdevices forum a solution has been found that allows you to play the new HLS streams from the BBC. It involves added another codec to your Squeezebox server, installing another plugin and manually adding the HLS URLs to your favourites. For anyone using Triode's iPlayer app there is also a way to get that working as well. I've implemented the changes and am happily receiving good quality radio feeds from the BBC again.

Am I allowed to add a link to the slimdevices forum if anyone wants it?

Yes, please do...

[badsoden]

Yes, please do...

There's quite a bit of info to get through so I'll try to point you to the most relevant. Beware it gets pretty geeky in there!!

This link is where all the discussion really started and the fix was first found. It's mainly for Triodes BBC iPlayer plugin but has useful info about the fixes-
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?53229-Announce-BBCiPlayer-Plugin-(UK-only)/page279 (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?53229-Announce-BBCiPlayer-Plugin-(UK-only)/page217)

The conversation then broke out to this thread-
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?103158-Announce-PlayHLS-Plugin-plugin-to-play-Apple-HLS-m3u8-stream

And this one gives a good how to for Windows based LMS servers-
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?103143-The-New-HSL-files-on-windows-PC

[Stratmangler]

This slipped past me http://forums.slimdevices.com/showth...l=1#post813964 and I only spotted it by chance.
The fix for the Beeb's cavalier and ill considered rationalisation of their service provision is painless and easy to perform.
My BBC iPlayer plugin is now playing ball, so once again I'm a happy bunny :D

[rdpx]

I would be quite happy now to see the bbc cut loose and on their own; no licence money. They used to be an institution and did wonderful programming but I have to say they don't do much that others cant do, and they HAVE to listen to their customers.

Oh god please NO!!! It would just mean adverts everywhere. QT would be dropped. Radio 4!!! Aaargh!! We should be renationalising the railways and buying our utilities back from the French and German states, not cutting loose the BBC!



I found out today that my other half cant listen to BBC Listen Again on the REVO that I got for her any more. Apparently they are on it though...

http://blogs.which.co.uk/technology/dab-radios-2/has-your-dab-radio-dropped-bbc-catch-up-programmes/

[Audio Advent]

People's anger over it seems pretty unfair given this part of the BBC's statement :


"The challenge we face is the equipment we are having to decommission is actually something that we have contractual obligations which require us to stop using it or renew it for a long period of time - and the renewal would be prohibitively expensive," he told BBC Radio 4's Feedback programme.

Someone mentioned before that they should have developed something and made it open source. I say that when there are loads of other people developing things for free out there, then a company like the BBC would be more efficient using something developed by someone else and also be wise to use something which is standard rather than only used by the BBC (else device manufacturers won't support it). Well, the statement says:


The BBC is also working with the radio industry and manufacturers towards using just one standard, known as Mpeg Dash, which will be industry-wide and open source, said Andrew Scott, the BBC's head of radio music product.

Effectively, even if they don't realise it, the small percent of the 5% percent of users effected who are driven to complain are asking for more money to be spent on them proportionally than all the other users of the service.