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webby
19-08-2009, 13:06
One for compressed AAC files for the iPod, and one for Apple Lossless (ALAC) files for the HiFi.

What's the best way to manage this?

At the moment I have a library of over 6000 tracks all ripped between 128 and 256kbps. All my albums have album art and have sort fields applied so for example, Paul McCartney comes under M. I don't really want to have to do that all over again. If I re-import a Paul McCartney cd at ALAC I can either replace the existing tracks (maintaining artwork and tags) or don't replace, which I assume places them alongside the 256kbps tracks, which means tags will need tinkering with.

Anybody else done this? As I say, what's the best way to manage it?

Cheers

Werner Berghofer
19-08-2009, 13:56
As I say, what's the best way to manage it?

Press and hold the Alt key (on a Mac it’s called ”Option“ key although labelled ”Alt“) before launching iTunes. Then iTunes shall prompt you which library to use.

Werner.

webby
19-08-2009, 14:01
Am I right in thinking that I could import the new ALAC file to replace the original, therefore maintaining art and tags, then convert to aac for the ipod? I could then just leave it at that and make playlists of aac files to sync to the ipod OR I could add the new ALAC files to a new library, removing them from the 'ipod' library? This way, I won't have duplicate albums, rather one library for ipod and one for hifi. Yes?

Peter Stockwell
19-08-2009, 14:20
There's a doug's script to convert ALAC on the fly to your ipod. This way you keep only ALAC on your computer and only have one library. You have to manage music manually on your ipod to accomplish this (i.e., no synchronisation between the Computer and the iPod).

Look here:

http://dougscripts.com/itunes/scripts/scripts07.php?page=1

Link might not work, I'm blocked from looking at it on my corporate computer.

Werner Berghofer
19-08-2009, 14:26
Am I right in thinking that I could import the new ALAC file to replace the original, therefore maintaining art and tags, then convert to aac for the ipod?Yes, this will work, but I fear you’ll find this a little bit troublesome. After converting the ALACs to AAC you’ll find duplicate track entries, which makes it necessary to use the ”Get Info“ menu item so that you can identify which track entry points to the ALAC and which points to the AAC file.

If you plan to use this method a ”Smart Playlist“ could help you a lot. Create a smart playlist containing only tracks with a sample rate below 320 or 256 kbits (or whatever sampling rate you use for mobile listening) and synch just this playlist to the iPod.

Peter Stockwell
19-08-2009, 14:28
Yes, this will work, but I fear you’ll find this a little bit troublesome. After converting the ALACs to AAC you’ll find duplicate track entries, which makes it necessary to use the ”Get Info“ menu item so that you can identify which track entry points to the ALAC and which points to the AAC file.

If you plan to use this method a ”Smart Playlist“ could help you a lot. Create a smart playlist containing only tracks with a sample rate below 320 or 256 kbits (or whatever sampling rate you use for mobile listening) and synch just this playlist to the iPod.

All that's true, but the doug's script is the tidiest way to get your music files from ALAC to AAC without keeping duplicates. It's just a slow process, that's the drawback.

Werner Berghofer
19-08-2009, 14:45
doug's script is the tidiest wayI was not aware of this script selection. Many thanks for the link!

webby
19-08-2009, 17:12
This could work I guess. Everything I want is on my ipod now, so I guess I'd only need to sync when I add something new to my library.

Peter Stockwell
20-08-2009, 08:13
This could work I guess. Everything I want is on my ipod now, so I guess I'd only need to sync when I add something new to my library.

Be careful how you think of the word "synchronise", it means to keep "is in step" or, in itunes speak, to make the contents (play counts, etc) of your ipod identical to what you have on your computer.

If you manage music manually you no longer synchronise. You just move music from your computer to your ipod as you choose. Playcounts, etc, are not updated between the two devices.

webby
20-08-2009, 13:08
Oh, so Playcounts and what else wouldn't be updated?

webby
20-08-2009, 13:48
Yesterday was the first time I've connected my ipod to my new mac (with iTunes 7.7). Using the above script, I put the ipod into 'manually manage music' mode. Since then, my ipod takes forever to connect and show up in the iTunes source pane.

My 30gb ipod is very nearly full but that shouldn't matter. I just wanted to transfer one song using this script. I don't know if this is a quirk or what. I switched it back to normal sync mode and it appeared in iTunes pretty quickly. Does manual mode normally take longer?

Peter Stockwell
20-08-2009, 14:18
Just to be clear; When you copy using one of the workflows, say "Lossless to AAC on ipod" you copy most of the metadata including artwork, unless you've set the preference saying you don't want the artwork copied to the ipod. Any rating information is copied to the ipod too. On the other hand, you won't copy Playcounts, last played, last skipped. If you use the "sort artist", "sort album artist", etc, this is not copied either. If you wish to have that information on your ipod you have to reset it.

The reason for this is simple, to use the script you have to, first, set in itunes preferences the AAC compression rate you want to use, say 192 Kbps. The script then creates a new version of the tune(s) you want to add, when itunes does this it's created as a new song. It copies the new songs one by one to the ipod, erasing each newly added song from itunes as it goes. You also have to remember to reset itunes to ALAC when you've finished adding the songs you want to yoru ipod. It is a slow process, but you do only have one master version of all your tunes, I tried separate librairies, but I just kept getting confused, and in anycase my ipods are not beig enough to contain all the music I have under itunes (> 6000, now).

Later when you connect your ipod to the computer with itunes open, you do not synchronise anymore. You've set the ipod prfeferences to "manually manage" music, so you will not update the playcounts, last played etc on your lossless library.

Hope this helps

Peter Stockwell
20-08-2009, 14:27
Yesterday was the first time I've connected my ipod to my new mac (with iTunes 7.7). Using the above script, I put the ipod into 'manually manage music' mode. Since then, my ipod takes forever to connect and show up in the iTunes source pane.

My 30gb ipod is very nearly full but that shouldn't matter. I just wanted to transfer one song using this script. I don't know if this is a quirk or what. I switched it back to normal sync mode and it appeared in iTunes pretty quickly. Does manual mode normally take longer?

I'm surprised, I don't have any issues about the ipod showing up, but itunes 7.7 is very old it's at 8.2 or some such now.

webby
20-08-2009, 16:49
iTunes 7.7 has mixed up the order of all my albums and tracks. It appears the sort tags are being used differently.

Can anyone thoroughly explain the sort tags for me?

I assigned Bob Dylan a sort artist tag of 'Dylan, Bob' which worked fine. Bob Dylan under D. But now, he's back under B again. I've noticed that to correct this I have to use the 'sort album artist' tag! ?? I'm confused as to what each one really does!

DanJennings
20-08-2009, 21:26
basically, they added the 'album artist' tags for compilation albums, so that they could be grouped together easily if they had more than one artist on them.

Basically you just need to edit your tags so that 'album artist' matches 'artist'

It annoys the piss out of me as well.

webby
20-08-2009, 22:09
basically, they added the 'album artist' tags for compilation albums, so that they could be grouped together easily if they had more than one artist on them.

Basically you just need to edit your tags so that 'album artist' matches 'artist'

It annoys the piss out of me as well.
Yes, but you have sort artist, and sort album artist. I'm tinkering with it now and there's some weird stuff going on, especially when you want your sort order reflected on the ipod.

webby
20-08-2009, 22:34
Basically, to get the sorting that I want I've filled in all the artist tags like this:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2558/3841221010_280607f82a_o.jpg
This way, the album comes under A in iTunes and on the ipod.

If I remove the sort artist tag, things go wrong on the ipod. However, I can safely remove the album artist tag with no ill effects (in this example).

nb: bear in mind I have iTunes 7.7 and a 5th gen iPod Video.

Peter Stockwell
21-08-2009, 06:47
Why are you using 7.7 ?

I think you've got it sorted, now.

With 8.2, a neat thing you can do is sort albums by artist and within artist by year. To do this you need the "album artist" and "sort album artists" set up, as in your example. Then you click on the "albums" column until it shows "albums by year". It has some minor gliches, such as if you have, say, an anthology album by one artist and the CD database has returned each track with a different year then itunes will take the year of the first track to decide what year your album is.

The other thing you have to watch out for is when you've ripped, say, a blue note recording originally recorded in the 50s or 60s but the CD was issued in, say, 1997 the you'll often find the the recording date as 1997, so you'll have to fix that by hand.

Lastly, if you use all this good stuff to manage your itunes library, and you use a squeezebox/transporter to stream to your main rig, you'll find that mostly you've got the sorting as you've set it up in itunes, but I've found some glitches. Notably, I've put the album artist for all santana recordings as Carlos Santana, with sort album artist Santana, Carlos. This shows up under C when browsing via the squeezebox/squeezecenter.

webby
21-08-2009, 09:39
Well Peter, I was quite happy with 7.4 but I got a new mac (well, 2nd hand) and that came with iLife 08 which had iTunes 7.7 on it. The updates to iTunes since 7.4 (and maybe before that) have been mostly about accommodating the iPhone, Apple TV and movie rentals. I don't have the hardware and I'm not interested in renting movies from iTunes. In fact, I'd like Apple to make iTunes music only and make a separate app for the other crap. iWatch, if you like.

Anyway, all the features you pointed out have been available to me since 7.4 so they're not new with 8.2. For ages now you've been able to click on the album column to make it change to album by artist, and then again to album by year. This is not an issue. The issue is that my ipod (5th gen) does not support the album artist sort tags. By that, i mean if you have for instance a David Bowie collection with Under Pressure on it, then that will mess things up on my ipod. The Artist list will say David Bowie, David Bowie with Queen, then David Bowie again, despite the fact that I've told iTunes that the album artist is David Bowie (and it all appears correct in iTunes itself). I've fixed this myself for these rare instances by changing the song title to Under Pressure - With Queen and changing the artist to David Bowie. Other than that, the ipod uses the same format as you can see when you choose list view in itunes.

Apple clearly changed something with the sort tags between 7.4 and 7.7 though cos all my tags for surname, first name were ignored by the ipod, so I had to fix all those.

Christ knows how the tags work in 8.2 or on iPhones and iPod Touch's, but for the moment, I don't need to know (unless I get one for my 40th next week :)). Apple seems to be very backward in coming forward with what's new in each version and I hear it's very difficult to go back a version, so I tend to wait and read forums and discussions to find out the nitty gritty. However, feedback on sort tags seems to be thin on the ground. Maybe it's just us audio freaks that like our libraries sorted just so :)

Alex_UK
21-08-2009, 09:50
In fact, I'd like Apple to make iTunes music only and make a separate app for the other crap. iWatch, if you like.

That would be good, never going to happen though, I suspect.


(unless I get one for my 40th next week :)).

Sorry for the slight off-topic, the Missus came home from work last week and I saw a box in her handbag - "what's this?" I asked, all excited at the brand new latest iphone, thinking just maybe... "oh, that's the new phone work have given me, is it any good, what does it do?!" :steam:

(I bought her an ipod Nano for Christmas, pink like she wanted - she's never even used it!!! Just added a "Sue's Playlist" and manually sync hers and mine)

webby
21-08-2009, 09:51
Women! :scratch:

Peter Stockwell
21-08-2009, 10:42
Well Peter, I was quite happy with 7.4 but I got a new mac (well, 2nd hand) and that came with iLife 08 which had iTunes 7.7 on it. The updates to iTunes since 7.4 (and maybe before that) have been mostly about accommodating the iPhone, Apple TV and movie rentals. I don't have the hardware and I'm not interested in renting movies from iTunes. In fact, I'd like Apple to make iTunes music only and make a separate app for the other crap. iWatch, if you like.

Anyway, all the features you pointed out have been available to me since 7.4 so they're not new with 8.2. For ages now you've been able to click on the album column to make it change to album by artist, and then again to album by year. This is not an issue. The issue is that my ipod (5th gen) does not support the album artist sort tags.

Ok fair enough, I didn't know when the album by year option was added. I don't know if it's audio freaks that like their collections sorted "just so", I think it's because men are collecters of strange stuff. Women just collect handbags and shoes.

BTW, the ipod touch is very nice, you can use it as a remote for your itunes. I have a 5G ipod (30gB) also, it get's regular use in the car. I have a mix of 192 and 256 kbps tracks that gives about 3500 songs.

webby
21-08-2009, 11:19
BTW, the ipod touch is very nice, you can use it as a remote for your itunes. I have a 5G ipod (30gB) also, it get's regular use in the car. I have a mix of 192 and 256 kbps tracks that gives about 3500 songs.
Yes, it's on my wishlist.

Do you find the sorting works better on your Touch? Particularly with mixed artist albums such as the Bowie one I mentioned, not compilations, they're different altogether and appear at the end of my list.

Peter Stockwell
21-08-2009, 11:32
I don't recall, I know that it took me a while to figure out how to use "album artist" though. it's useful when you've got, say, a Johnny Cash album that has a cut where it says Johnny Cash and U2. With the picture of the album it will say, either various artists or just a blank, I can't remember which now. You can then enter Johnny Cash as the album artist and it'll keep all the tracks together.

webby
21-08-2009, 11:42
With the picture of the able..

Er, sorry?

Peter Stockwell
21-08-2009, 14:10
sorry I can't write