Capella vs Temple Audio XC3 vs save my money - advice nedded

[pitadavespa]

Hi all,

I have some doubts I'd like you to help me with.

I'm using a passive pre (Icon Audio with a 100k Alps pot) to drive my Temple Audio monoblocks (powered by a Custom Hifi DC2 linear power supply). Speakers are Xavian Mia II and digital source is a Rotel RDD 980 (transport) and RDP 980 (DAC). I also use a cassette deck (Akai) and an analogue tuner (Sansui).

I like the sound, but sometimes I feel there is "something" missing, mainly using the cassette deck and the tuner (which, by the way, have not so low capacity interconnects - and this can be part of the problem). Both the cassette deck and the tuner are excellent in terms os sound quality, though.
Generally, I miss a bit of dynamics and feel the sound is a bit dry, mainly at low volumes.

So, I thought I could buy a cheap but good quality active pre and use it between the passive (which I'd use as a source selector only, with the volume pot at it's max) and the monoblocks, so these impedance issues (?) are solved.

I can read a lot of good things about the Capella, but I found none about the XC3. Have any of you tried both?
My main goal is sound quality throught the speakers, not phones (which, by the way, are B&W P5).

So, I'd like to listen to your ideas, please. :)


Thanks,
Luis

[StanleyB]

There is a thread about it at http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?28262-Battery-powered-t-amps

[wee tee cee]

I have been running a Capella as a battery powered active pre for a while now. From your description it should do exactly what you are after-added dynamics and attack. TAS has a few threads on my experience and others that have heard my set up.
Haven't heard the temple amp...sorry never compared them directly.

In combination with t amps it works really well/sounds very good with tubes also IMHO..

[pitadavespa]

There is a thread about it at http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?28262-Battery-powered-t-amps

Thanks Stanley, but... are you sure that is the right thread?
I read it all, from top to bottom, and there is not even on reference to TA XC3 or Bereford Capella.
Good reading, though. ;)

[StanleyB]

It covers pre and passive amps, which is one of the things you are interested in.

[wee tee cee]

I run temple mono blocks and have tried passive and active pre. As said haven't tried the temple active pre-just my experience...

[pitadavespa]

It covers pre and passive amps, which is one of the things you are interested in.

Yes, I know and I appreciate it.
I was trying to find some information about the XC3 and how it compares to the Capella, though. I read very good things about (your) Capella, but none about the XC3.

Considering the monoblocks are so good, I guess the Class A Mosfets Pre should be no sloth. It won't be so eco friendly like the Capella, though.

[pitadavespa]

I have been running a Capella as a battery powered active pre for a while now. From your description it should do exactly what you are after-added dynamics and attack. TAS has a few threads on my experience and others that have heard my set up.
Haven't heard the temple amp...sorry never compared them directly.

In combination with t amps it works really well/sounds very good with tubes also IMHO..

Thanks Tony.

In your experience, how much better do the monoblocks sound with an active pre?
Is that a huge or a somehow tiny difference?

Thanks.

[pitadavespa]

(a bit off topic, but it'll help me on this)

Considering a volume pot (attenuator) always introduces some degradation in the sound, can we say that that same pot, when on its minimal attenuation (max volume), acts like if it wasn't there, adding no (perceptual) degradation to the sound?

Thanks.

[wee tee cee]

The Capella cant improve the signal its fed...it amplifies it honestly-nothing more. The added gain the Capella brings requires re adjusting of the gain settings on the mono blocks. I went from high input with red gain setting with a passive to low input and purple gain setting with the Capella.

Im running the Capella wide open into a tisbury audio passive and feeding a pair of kel84 valve mono blocks. The combo lets me switch between my battery powered t amps and balanced mains driven tubes. The tubes sound very good with the Capella in front of them-the best I have heard them.

Running the Capella wont improve the sound from your source but will give the sound more attack and dynamics. Passive pre or volume pot doesn't boost the signal so low powered amps have to work harder-starting to distort and clip.

[brian2957]

Just had a wee visit from Gary ( gazjam ) this morning . He brought the Amptastic Mini-1 and the Chinese PSU I had bought for it . I had a Capella waiting ( usual great service from Stan - thanks mate :)) to be used as a preamp with the Mini-1 . Firstly we tried the Mini-1 with the PSU and it sounded very good indeed , giving my big Sony 770ES a run for its money . I have to say that in some areas , particularly the mids , the little Mini-1 was better . This Chinese PSU is very good value for money and works well with the Mini-1 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30W-DC12V-HiFi-Linear-power-supply-Regulated-PSU-for-DAC-headphone-amp-CL-215-/111544612626?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Amplifier_Parts&hash=item19f893b712
Also what the seller doesn't tell you is that the output on these PSUs is adjustable . Mine is running at 13.5V with the Mini-1 .
We then plugged the Capella into the system as an active preamp for the Min1-1. Within 10 minutes we were looking at each other in disbelief at what we were hearing . The Capella doesn't just give the Mini-1 a helping hand , it totally changes the little Amptastic Mini-1 into a totally different beast . With the Capella in front of the Mini-1 my system is in a totally different ' ball park ' than with the amp / PSU combination .
Much more weight . Bass is very clean , powerful , and musical . The top end sparkles with a naturalness I've never heard in my system before and the midband is beautifully open .
When we heard this combination at Garys place last week I immediately ordered a Capella and plugged it into the Amptastic for the first time in my system today and I'm well pleased .
When I first heard this combination at Garys place I thougt to myself that this was a 'killer' combination . I then heard it in my system today and I heard nothing to change that opinion .
As an aside , we removed the links inside the Amptastic and turned it into a power amp and were rewarded by a further small, but most welcome , improvement in SQ.

[struth]

never got to hear that combo Brian but great to hear it worked so well.

[pitadavespa]

The Capella cant improve the signal its fed...it amplifies it honestly-nothing more. The added gain the Capella brings requires re adjusting of the gain settings on the mono blocks. I went from high input with red gain setting with a passive to low input and purple gain setting with the Capella.

Im running the Capella wide open into a tisbury audio passive and feeding a pair of kel84 valve mono blocks. The combo lets me switch between my battery powered t amps and balanced mains driven tubes. The tubes sound very good with the Capella in front of them-the best I have heard them.

Running the Capella wont improve the sound from your source but will give the sound more attack and dynamics. Passive pre or volume pot doesn't boost the signal so low powered amps have to work harder-starting to distort and clip.

Hi Tony,

Thank you for your answer.

Isn't the purple gain even more sensitive than the red one?

So, if I understood it right, you're running the Tisbury passive pre between the Capella and the valve mono blocks. Is that it?
So you use the Tisbury, not to sellect the sources, but to select the amplifiers. Is that correct?

[pitadavespa]

Just had a wee visit from Gary ( gazjam ) this morning . He brought the Amptastic Mini-1 and the Chinese PSU I had bought for it . I had a Capella waiting ( usual great service from Stan - thanks mate :)) to be used as a preamp with the Mini-1 . Firstly we tried the Mini-1 with the PSU and it sounded very good indeed , giving my big Sony 770ES a run for its money . I have to say that in some areas , particularly the mids , the little Mini-1 was better . This Chinese PSU is very good value for money and works well with the Mini-1 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30W-DC12V-HiFi-Linear-power-supply-Regulated-PSU-for-DAC-headphone-amp-CL-215-/111544612626?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Amplifier_Parts&hash=item19f893b712
Also what the seller doesn't tell you is that the output on these PSUs is adjustable . Mine is running at 13.5V with the Mini-1 .
We then plugged the Capella into the system as an active preamp for the Min1-1. Within 10 minutes we were looking at each other in disbelief at what we were hearing . The Capella doesn't just give the Mini-1 a helping hand , it totally changes the little Amptastic Mini-1 into a totally different beast . With the Capella in front of the Mini-1 my system is in a totally different ' ball park ' than with the amp / PSU combination .
Much more weight . Bass is very clean , powerful , and musical . The top end sparkles with a naturalness I've never heard in my system before and the midband is beautifully open .
When we heard this combination at Garys place last week I immediately ordered a Capella and plugged it into the Amptastic for the first time in my system today and I'm well pleased .
When I first heard this combination at Garys place I thougt to myself that this was a 'killer' combination . I then heard it in my system today and I heard nothing to change that opinion .
As an aside , we removed the links inside the Amptastic and turned it into a power amp and were rewarded by a further small, but most welcome , improvement in SQ.

Hi Brian,

Good to know the Capella is, also in this case, a good improvement. Thanks. :)

How do you ajust the PSUs output?
Also, is it totally silent?

[brian2957]

Yes it's totally silent Luis . You adjust the output by turning a little brass screw on a potentiometer inside the case.

[pitadavespa]

Great. thanks!

[wee tee cee]

Correct, single source caiman 2-capella-tissie-either tubes/t amps (just need to swap speaker wire at speaker end).

[Alp]

Nice to hear. Thanks! I was thinking of doing just the same between my Caiman-2 and Passive Pre.

[pitadavespa]

I've been making some ajustments to the speakers position in the last few days and changed the amps gain to red (from blue). Much better now!
I guess, since these ones have -15dB ajustment, that I was using a too much low sensitivity setting.
They sound more live and dynamic now.

These are, indeed, fabulous amps!

[jon1]

Just had a wee visit from Gary ( gazjam ) this morning . He brought the Amptastic Mini-1 and the Chinese PSU I had bought for it . I had a Capella waiting ( usual great service from Stan - thanks mate :)) to be used as a preamp with the Mini-1 . Firstly we tried the Mini-1 with the PSU and it sounded very good indeed , giving my big Sony 770ES a run for its money . I have to say that in some areas , particularly the mids , the little Mini-1 was better . This Chinese PSU is very good value for money and works well with the Mini-1 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30W-DC12V-HiFi-Linear-power-supply-Regulated-PSU-for-DAC-headphone-amp-CL-215-/111544612626?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Amplifier_Parts&hash=item19f893b712
Also what the seller doesn't tell you is that the output on these PSUs is adjustable . Mine is running at 13.5V with the Mini-1 .
We then plugged the Capella into the system as an active preamp for the Min1-1. Within 10 minutes we were looking at each other in disbelief at what we were hearing . The Capella doesn't just give the Mini-1 a helping hand , it totally changes the little Amptastic Mini-1 into a totally different beast . With the Capella in front of the Mini-1 my system is in a totally different ' ball park ' than with the amp / PSU combination .
Much more weight . Bass is very clean , powerful , and musical . The top end sparkles with a naturalness I've never heard in my system before and the midband is beautifully open .
When we heard this combination at Garys place last week I immediately ordered a Capella and plugged it into the Amptastic for the first time in my system today and I'm well pleased .
When I first heard this combination at Garys place I thougt to myself that this was a 'killer' combination . I then heard it in my system today and I heard nothing to change that opinion .
As an aside , we removed the links inside the Amptastic and turned it into a power amp and were rewarded by a further small, but most welcome , improvement in SQ.

Hi brian how long did take to get your chinese psu..and any duty to pay?



jon

[StanleyB]

I am thinking about ordering one of THIS (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hifi-linear-power-DC-1-USB-amp-DAC-external-power-supply-with-digital-display-SN/111312388829?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3D796d051ca44a42de97a f43d0a31b752d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26 mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D111312373482&rt=nc)
It has a better screened transformer. And the 15V version would be a perfect match for the Capella and the Caiman.

[Theadmans]

That power supply looks good value Stan.

Be interested in how you get on if you order one (I have my Capella running off my Anker battery at 12V at the moment).

[struth]

That power supply looks good value Stan.

Be interested in how you get on if you order one (I have my Capella running off my Anker battery at 12V at the moment).

Got one of these on order.At least I think its the same. hoping it will arrive soon so will let you know what I think.

[brian2957]

I have the 12V PSU from this seller which I use with the Amptastic Mini-1 . I had a member on here who knows about these things check it over and he gave it a clean bill of health . The one I have is adjustable between 10V and 15V I think and you don't even need a meter . The readout on mine is pretty accurate . They are also very well built and finished .

[Yomanze]

(a bit off topic, but it'll help me on this)

Considering a volume pot (attenuator) always introduces some degradation in the sound, can we say that that same pot, when on its minimal attenuation (max volume), acts like if it wasn't there, adding no (perceptual) degradation to the sound?

Thanks.

No, because there is a wiper contact or switch contacts. It's the part itself that also has a signature no matter what volume. Having said this there are varying degrees of sensitivity to this in certain systems. There are also more novel solutions like relay controlled resistor networks etc. or a very low impedance pot, but these are rare.

As an example I recently sold one of my LFD amps & the recipient was surprised by the differences during his experiments with different pots. Impedance matching issues can also accentuate the sound signature of pots / attenuators.

[pitadavespa]

No, because there is a wiper contact or switch contacts. It's the part itself that also has a signature no matter what volume. Having said this there are varying degrees of sensitivity to this in certain systems. There are also more novel solutions like relay controlled resistor networks etc. or a very low impedance pot, but these are rare.

As an example I recently sold one of my LFD amps & the recipient was surprised by the differences during his experiments with different pots. Impedance matching issues can also accentuate the sound signature of pots / attenuators.

Thanks. ;)

[struth]

Anyone know if the dc out of the Capella is just a straight out from the in socket?

[StanleyB]

Anyone know if the dc out of the Capella is just a straight out from the in socket?
Yes it is.

[struth]

Yes it is.

Thanks Stan. I thought it would be... I have a plan.:lol:

[StanleyB]

Thanks Stan. I thought it would be... I have a plan.:lol:
So you saw the movie as well :eyebrows:.

[struth]

Well I have part of a plan:lol:

[Firebottle]

Would that be a pan or a lan :scratch:

[wee tee cee]

Grant,
Just be careful you wire it up correctly, if you get it wrong you could "blow the bloody doors off!!"

[struth]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/76/05/3a/76053a45314b5fe50b5c8b030f955383.jpg

:lol:

Been using the Capella with my Yaqin amp. worked well and sounded very good. The psu I have coming may run both this and the amptastic....that was the thought.

[struth]

That psu came today. it seems very good vfm. well built and very quiet soundstage.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/11/0fac75f92d1737a3c9848838025995f5.jpg

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/11/914c279c7c50f60cc2b71a5b66bebff9.jpg

[Theadmans]

That psu came today. it seems very good vfm. well built and very quiet soundstage.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/11/0fac75f92d1737a3c9848838025995f5.jpg

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/11/914c279c7c50f60cc2b71a5b66bebff9.jpg

Looks good Grant - have you compared the sound of the Capella via this PSU and Battery power ?

[struth]

No never used a battery system personally. It was pretty quiet with the normal wallwart but much better with this. It is rather well made and for the money a no brainer for such equipment I'd think. Total cost including postage was £39.

[Pieoftheday]

I am thinking about ordering one of THIS (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hifi-linear-power-DC-1-USB-amp-DAC-external-power-supply-with-digital-display-SN/111312388829?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3D796d051ca44a42de97a f43d0a31b752d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26 mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D111312373482&rt=nc)
It has a better screened transformer. And the 15V version would be a perfect match for the Capella and the Caiman.

hi stan, did you try one of those power supplys with a caiman mk11 yet? jim

[StanleyB]

Not yet. Are you thinking of ordering one as well?

[Pieoftheday]

Not yet. Are you thinking of ordering one as well?

maybe, ive never tried changing power supplies from the OE one before, so not really sure what to expect?:scratch:

[StanleyB]

maybe, ive never tried changing power supplies from the OE one before, so not really sure what to expect?:scratch:
That reminds me of something a mate of mine suggested when I was a teenager. His words were "you should try it without latex". How right he was!

[Pieoftheday]

That reminds me of something a mate of mine suggested when I was a teenager. His words were "you should try it without latex". How right he was!

im not sure what to say:hmm:

[struth]

Before Brian got the linear psu from me. i only had it for 2 hrs lol ...i'd say it was a deffo upgrade on the wallwart....it was like removing the latex:eyebrows:

[Pieoftheday]

Before Brian got the linear psu from me. i only had it for 2 hrs lol ...i'd say it was a deffo upgrade on the wallwart....it was like removing the latex:eyebrows:

That's me sold then!:pub:

[struth]

That's me sold then!:pub:

I didn't want to give him it but he overpowered me....made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I really hate waking up in the morning to find a broken valve amp in the bed with me :eyebrows:

[maxrob200]

I am considering getting one of the linear power supply mentioned in this thread for my Caiman II. Would it be the 220V - 15v version that has been used here? And is the supplied power connector the same as used for the C2 DC input?

[brian2957]

I didn't want to give him it but he overpowered me....made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I really hate waking up in the morning to find a broken valve amp in the bed with me :eyebrows:

Yup sent the boys round ( with an AG500 ) and made Grant an offer he couldn't refuse :lol: As he's a member ( older :ner: ) of thescottishmafia we were very gentle on him .
I'm using the PSU with an Amptastic Mini-1 and it is indeed an audible upgrade from the suppllied PSU .
Please remember that it's a 15 minute job to adjust the output on these PSUs and you don't even need a meter . They can therefore be used on a variety of equipment once the correct voltage is applied .
Also runs very cool with the Amptastic .
The PSU is fitted with a 2.1mm plug and fits the Amptastic and the Capella .

[maxrob200]

Bit the bullet and ordered a linear PSU from the ebay link (220V DC 15V-1 amp). Lucky I bought it yesterday, there was a 10% discount code as well so saved a few dollars. Today the price has gone up! Maybe it's the demand from you guys on AOS all placing orders for the PSU LOL

[Pieoftheday]

Alex, did the power supply arrive yet? Jim

[maxrob200]

Not yet, suppose to arrive in by end of this week or next. Specified for 220V 15V DC to power the Caiman 2.

[Pieoftheday]

OK,just ordered one myself,be interested to know how you get on,jim

[Pieoftheday]

I am thinking about ordering one of THIS (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hifi-linear-power-DC-1-USB-amp-DAC-external-power-supply-with-digital-display-SN/111312388829?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3D796d051ca44a42de97a f43d0a31b752d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26 mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D111312373482&rt=nc)
It has a better screened transformer. And the 15V version would be a perfect match for the Capella and the Caiman.
I've just ordered one of the above mentioned power supplies, should I be concerened about its safety? Probably won't have passed any UK/European safety checks? Jim

[brian2957]

James , as I write this I have one of these plugged into my little Amptastic Mini-1. It's a definite upgrade from the supplied PSU . With mine there's a minor issue in that the voltage tends to creep up over a few weeks . I just take the top off and adjust it back down to the 13.5V I set it at for the Mini-1. It's only a 5 minute job so I don't consider it to be an issue . I keep meaning to ask the experts on here if there's a permanent fix for this . No other issues with this PSU . It runs cool in my system and is very good VFM IMO.

[Pieoftheday]

Brian, thanks for that:)

[maxrob200]

Alex, did the power supply arrive yet? Jim

Hi Jim,
The PSU arrived today. Front printing had Breeze Audio , same as the ones ordered by the guys here. Beautifully packed. Opened it up and very neat inside. There is a adjusting screw thingy which is probably for adjusting voltage...help anyone? Input voltage specified on the board as 220V. Packing says 230V..even better as Aus is 240V

Unloaded the display read 15.1 v , on connection to the Caiman 2, read 15

Soundwise, a little thick at first compared to plugpack from the Caiman 2. Gave it about half hour, started opening up. Moved it away from the DAC, maybe a bit better after 1 hour, definitely starting to sound more open. From previous experience with power supply upgrades to high end pre-amps etc, similar improvements like a richer smoother sound especially in the mid-range are the most immediate changes. At the moment there is a little less shimmer in the tops but maybe after a bit more burn-in, that might get better.

[Pieoftheday]

sounds like it was worth a go then alex:)

[brian2957]

Hi Jim,
The PSU arrived today. Front printing had Breeze Audio , same as the ones ordered by the guys here. Beautifully packed. Opened it up and very neat inside. There is a adjusting screw thingy which is probably for adjusting voltage...help anyone? Input voltage specified on the board as 220V. Packing says 230V..even better as Aus is 240V

Unloaded the display read 15.1 v , on connection to the Caiman 2, read 15

Soundwise, a little thick at first compared to plugpack from the Caiman 2. Gave it about half hour, started opening up. Moved it away from the DAC, maybe a bit better after 1 hour, definitely starting to sound more open. From previous experience with power supply upgrades to high end pre-amps etc, similar improvements like a richer smoother sound especially in the mid-range are the most immediate changes. At the moment there is a little less shimmer in the tops but maybe after a bit more burn-in, that might get better.

The voltage can be adjusted as shown in the linked post Alex .
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?37546-Chinese-PSU-voltage-range&highlight=chinese+psu+adjustment

I've been using mine at UK voltage (240V ) for a few weeks now . It's on all day when I'm at home and it never gets hot .

[maxrob200]

Thanks Brian for the link for voltage adjustment.
I leave it on 24/7 as well and it runs really cool.
Sound quality has improved after a few hours. Better inflection in voices and subtle cues, a richer sound overall with more presence in vocals.
Worth the money!

[rallye666]

Without wishing to stead this thread in the wrong direction has anyone compared one of these cheap linear supplies with a battery? I'll be using it with a CM2 and getting a bit bored of having to recharge every week. I also feel it sounds better when fully charged and gradually the sound softens as it dissipates. So would ideally like to go linear and leave it switched on

[Pieoftheday]

mine arrived today,thought it would be another week at least,initial impressions,its as though noise has been removed from the background,does that make sense? its too early to say much more but this was noticable straight away