Nagaoka MP-110 or Rega Carbon?

[Tim]

Can anyone throw some opinions on this one. André has recently made me feel I need a kick up the butt and get a TT up and running. I had 2 non-runners recently, now I have one and two tonearms, but still nothing working, despite buying a fair few LPs over the last 6 months or so :o

So my question is, which of the two would folk recommend? I have read good things about both, especially the Carbon. It will be going into a Michell TecnoArm and I'll be using the MM input on my Rega Brio-R into Harbeth SHL5's. I'm not looking for razor detail, or thumping bass - I want a listenable, non fatiguing, musical cartridge that is easy to set up and that enables easy replacement of the styli. I play mostly Americana, lots of acoustic stripped back music, with female vocals featuring heavily, so mid-range is where I'm at I guess. I also don't go loud.

What would you pick or is there something else out there and I want to stay below £100 if possible and it must be MM? The only real experience I can draw on is from the 70'/80's when I had I think an AT95E and liked it, I had some kind of Ortofon as well, but cannot recall which one?

Thanks.

[Ali Tait]

These are rather good-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PUNTINA-ACUTEX-412-STR-PER-GIRADISCHI-INTROVABILE-STYLUS-FOR-TURNTABLE-NUOVA-/251802035889?pt=Attrezzature_per_DJ&hash=item3aa09226b1

[Tim]

Interesting Ali, never heard of those.

[Ali Tait]

Have a Google for Acutex. Lot of love out there.

[Roy S]

Prefer the Ortofon Red to both the Nagaoka MP110 & the AT91 (Rega Carbon)

[Idlewithnodrive]

Ortofon VMS30 MkII are rather decent.

As are Pickering XV15 / 625e.

You might even pick up a Goldring 1042 for £100 s/h and that would surprise you :)

[Marco]

Some good reccos so far, but Timbo, I reckon (given the T/Ts and arms you’ve got), you need to aim a little higher in the cartridge department (as far as the two you’ve listed are concerned), as otherwise there’ll be too much of a discrepancy between the sound of your FBA sources and vinyl….

One of the midrange Nagas is most liable to hit the spot, me thinks :)

Marco.

[Reffc]

Some good reccos so far, but Timbo, I reckon (given the T/Ts and arms you’ve got), you need to aim a little higher in the cartridge department (as far as the two you’ve listed are concerned), as otherwise there’ll be too much of a discrepancy between the sound of your FBA sources and vinyl….

One of the midrange Nagas is most liable to hit the spot, me thinks :)

Marco.

Yup...MP150 or Mp200 wouldn't break the bank (£209 for the 150) and are excellent carts. Until the recent price hikes, Nags were possibly the best mid range MMs out there (I haven't raised my prices on these...yet!!). Saying that, I've had the Ortofon Red V's the MP110 and it was no contest...in favour of the milder mannered MP110. The Red is good but can get a little spitty top end. The Blue is better. Nags have a more relaxed (not pipe and slippers mind) and very musical presentation that's addictive for extended listening. They let you concentrate on the music and forget the hifi (appropriately partnered). The Ortofons and to a lesser extent, the ATs I find a little brighter and slightly more analytical in presentation. There's a lot of really decent mid priced MMs out there at the minute, including the AT33, MP300, Ortfon Bronze and Goldring 1042. If you can stretch to one of these, it's (imho) worth the extra outlay over budget offerings, especially given your arm.

[Roy S]

Saying that, I've had the Ortofon Red V's the MP110 and it was no contest...in favour of the milder mannered MP110. The Red is good but can get a little spitty top end.

That'll be me shot down in flames then! I would say I prefer a 'livelier' presentation but wouldn't say the red is 'spitty'.

[Beobloke]

The only real experience I can draw on is from the 70'/80's when I had I think an AT95E and liked it,

If you liked the AT95E then how about an AT110E? Officially discontinued but there are some still about and I think they're a great little cartridge personally.

[Cyreg]

My Nag MP110 plays very musical, detailed yet warm and without IGD in the RB250/TecnoWeight on a Michell TecnoDec :harp:
Just what you're looking for :)

[Macca]

I agree a better cartridge would be worthwhile especially given the quality of the deck and arm but given the choice of these two I'd take the Nagaoka over a cheap, re-badged AT.

[Tim]

Thanks guys for the suggestions so far - I have heard a 2M 'Red' and it wasn't for me, I found it too harsh and detailed for my tastes, I guess I lean more toward a pipe and slippers sound. I have also heard some very expensive Shelter cartridges (only two to be fair, in very different systems) and to me they sounded more 'digital' than my current FBA system and I didn't enjoy either of them. I have worked hard to make my system sound as un-digital as possible and have been complemented on how it sounds and how non-fatiguing it is to listen to, which it has to be with the amount of time I spend playing music. I just love the sound as I have said many times before - mostly because of the Harbeth's.

I get the points about spending more and money isn't really the issue, it's just that I am finding it hard to justify that much on a source component which will only be used occasionally, as opposed to many hours a day, every day, which my FBA system is and it will always remain my primary source. I think it was Martin (Macca) who posted some time ago about his costs and calculated it worked out about 50p a play, taking cartridge cost (not sure what the cart was) and life expectancy into consideration - I nearly fell off my chair when I read that. That would mean about £6-8.00 a day for me running a turntable, which just wouldn't work. If you look at my play history since April 2012 (68,282 tracks) and took an average of say 8 songs per LP side, that's over £4,000! I know I wouldn't play that many LPs in reality, it would be a mixture of FBA and vinyl, but that's a scary figure for me to consider, when buying cartridges.

The Nag is looking a good bet and if I find I am enjoying and playing a lot more records than FBA, then I could reconsider when it comes time to replace it, maybe with a Nag around the 2-300 mark like a 150 or maybe 200 as Marco suggests. I'm surprised no-one has said anything positive about the Carbon, as I seem to remember reading some rave reviews here? Don't forget guys I am looking for a budget cartridge at the moment.

Good info though, all very useful knowledge which has been very helpful ;)

[Ali Tait]

Some info on Acutex here-

http://mail.audiokarma.net/forums/showthread.php?t=528291

[Macca]

That cost per play was based on a replacement stylus for a Nag Mp500 costing £220 and the estimated stylus life being 200 hrs BUT there are some buts there, there seem to be a number of different estimations of the longevity of these needles, the 200 hours is taken from Nags own website and may well be a misprint.

Ulitmately if your vinyl use is going to be anything other than a couple of spins a month just for the novelty then you really do need to spend some money if you want to approach the quality of budget digital. That means a quality stylus that will track the inner grooves without distorting and a record cleaning machine of some description.

Vinyl is very much a secondary source for me but even then if I add up the cost of TT, cart and RCM that is £1500 right there. That is more than the rest of the system put together. And the difference in quality between my TT set up and something like Marco's is comparable with the distance from the Earth to the Moon.

You can't do vinyl properly on the cheap. It is the nature of the beast.

[walpurgis]

200 hours has to be wrong Martin. There's a '0' missing.

[Ali Tait]

That was my thought.

[Macca]

That was the eventual conclusion, although if the site did not have so many other typos it would be a bit concerning. Even at 2000 hours that is still approx 23p a side

[hifi_dave]

The Carbon is an excellent budget cartridge and there is nothing to match it at anywhere near the price. If you want a good, inexpensive stop gap, it will be ideal. What's not to like at £25.99 ?

[RichB]

I agree a better cartridge would be worthwhile especially given the quality of the deck and arm but given the choice of these two I'd take the Nagaoka over a cheap, re-badged AT.

So would I...

Forget about Rega unless you're after an Exact

Even then it's a marmite cartridge, but nice in an all Rega system.

[Tim]

You can't do vinyl properly on the cheap. It is the nature of the beast.
. . and for me, there's the rub. When I first went down the FBA route I couldn't find a CD based system that came near it for sound quality, at the same price point and good vinyl playback is an even higher threshold it seems. For me, I would rather invest in music and live shows, but as most know I seem to enjoy music differently to many here. Horses for courses I guess and like anything, not everyone has the same needs/preferences. I have to admit though, I am really looking forward to being able to play my LPs again, so nearly there! I am also factoring in the cost of an RCM.


The Carbon is an excellent budget cartridge and there is nothing to match it at anywhere near the price. If you want a good, inexpensive stop gap, it will be ideal. What's not to like at £25.99 ?
I've always liked the cut of your jib Dave ;)

Interesting exchange and thanks for the further info Ali, have you got one yourself?

[Ali Tait]

Yes, had two 312's ( gave one to Alan) and a 412. Great carts. I think Alan liked it-

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?36398-Up-to-the-mark-at-last-Acutex-M312IIISTR&highlight=Acutex

[rossman]

Although it is over your £100 budget I would suggest A Denon DL-110 if you can stretch to it at around £150, especially in a Rega based arm. Personally I find this much more enjoyable than the Nagaoka MP110, less Hi Fi and more about making music in the arms I have tried them in. I have tried a few cartridges over the years from Nagaoka, Goldring, Audio Technica, Shure & Ortofon but I always seem to return to Denon cartridges

I haven't heard the Rega Carbon to compare but I think the AT-95E is a very worthy cartridge for the money.

However, within your budget I would second the earlier recommendation of the AT110E if you can find one NOS or used and get a new genuine stylus for it.

[Cyreg]

...Denon DL-110 ....Personally I find this much more enjoyable than the Nagaoka MP110, less Hi Fi ...

IMO the Nag MP110 does not sound "Hi FI" at all, on the contrary...
...has good bass, 3D, smooth on warmish side, yet detailed sound

Is probably a wrong recollection of the Nag MP110 sound?
And plays excellent on Rega RB250 arm

[rossman]

Well I did say "personally".

In the end the Nag was not an enjoyable cartridge for me and the Denon is. I had read that the Nag benefits from a different capacitance loading, which I never tried. I tried the Nag because it had very good reviews and opinions so there are obviously many people who like it, but I could never get on with it which could have been down to any number of reasons.

[paskinn]

....You can't settle a matter of personal taste by holding a poll. It makes as much sense as holding a poll on what meal you would prefer.
Difficult I know, for every one of us, but there is no substitute for personal experience. There is no other satisfactory way. If you can only hear a few cartridges, choose the one you like best from that limited sample. Or just take a gamble.

[Tim]

....You can't settle a matter of personal taste by holding a poll.
I agree Peter, but I think you are taking it too literally, I added that out of curiosity to what see peoples preferences were - not to try and settle a matter of personal taste, as that's impossible. Ultimately it matters not what others peoples preferences are, as it's what I'm going to like and live with in the end that matters and that can only be achieved by listening in my room, with my system and my music ;)

But I think it's good to know what people think, well I like to know anyway.

The DL-110 has been on my shortlist too Paul.

[rossman]

Tim, good to hear that the Denon is a possibility.

Han, if I wasn't enjoying the Denon so much I would be tempted to try the Nagaoka out in the RB303, possibly something to do at some point in the future.

[morris_minor]

Yes, had two 312's ( gave one to Alan) and a 412. Great carts. I think Alan liked it-

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?36398-Up-to-the-mark-at-last-Acutex-M312IIISTR&highlight=Acutex
FWIW I've put about 15 hours on a 412 and found it to be big and bold. A bit too brash (at the moment) for classical music, but big band jazz just sizzles with energy. I'm hoping it'll calm down a little, though not too much. Definitely a keeper, and at around £45 delivered good value too . . . I did note from reading around that some buyers had found mis-aligned cantilevers, but I decided to chance it and mine was ok.

[freefallrob]

The Carbon really is great fun, just gets on with the music, handy to have as a spare if not anything else to be honest!

[Ali Tait]

FWIW I've put about 15 hours on a 412 and found it to be big and bold. A bit too brash (at the moment) for classical music, but big band jazz just sizzles with energy. I'm hoping it'll calm down a little, though not too much. Definitely a keeper, and at around £45 delivered good value too . . . I did note from reading around that some buyers had found mis-aligned cantilevers, but I decided to chance it and mine was ok.

Good stuff, should calm down a bit with a few hours under it's belt.