If I like Quad ESL63s, will I like active ATCs ?

[eisenach]

I've posted this on PFM, but I thought I'd give it a go here, too:

Living in the country is a wonderful thing, but it does mean that getting to listen to some brands of HiFi can mean a trip of over a hundred miles.

The main system consists of various sources (Primare BP32, Tag T32R tuner, Michell Gyrodeck), a Tag McLaren PA20R pre-amp (which was refreshed a couple of years ago my The Audiocellar), Quad 606 MkII (also refreshed a couple of years ago, by Baker Audio) and One Thing Quad ESL63s.

Music is all sorts, but mainly baroque orchestral and vocal, especially Bach, and the room is a decent sized loft conversion (around 5m x 4,5m x 2,06m), with lots of odd shapes due to the chimney and stair intrusions and roof slope.

A few years ago, I bought some of the previous incarnation ATC SCM11s for the second system and have been very impressed with them, which has got me wondering about active ATCs for the main system. I’d like to audition the new active SCM40s when they’re out, but it looks as though that won’t be before the autumn.

The reason for asking now is that I might have the chance to get at a good price a rather expensive pre-amp that would be ideal for driving active ATCs, but might be a touch overkill for the Quad. I really like the ESL63s, but sometimes miss the ability to go really loud without strain.

So after the waffle, the question to those that might have experience of both: if I like the ESL63s, am I likely really to enjoy a speaker like the ATC SCM50A Tower (I realise no-one has heard the new 40s yet), or are they chalk-and-cheese, and I suppose a supplementary question: would a really high class transparent pre-amp be a waste on the Quad 606 II if I decided to stick with 63s.

Retirement looms within the next year or so, lots more time to spend with the music, but with it a collapse in spending power, so I need to get this right.

[krugdoktor]

Hi Martin,
I've owned both ESL 57s and 63s (currently ESL 57 QA http://www.quad-musik.com/html/esl57qa.html ). Both were driven by a QUAD 707 which got the the signal from a NAGRA PL-P (my pride and joy!).
IMHO the preamp is the most important component in a setup. You can get satisfying results from a lower class preamp but listen to a first class example and you know where heaven is! The QUAD 606 is a very capable and above all musical performer and gets even better at the end of a first class preamp.
You will miss the unique qualities of your ESLs if you change to conventional box speakers!
606 and ESL 63 go together very well!

[DSJR]

[Edit] - I concur with the comments above, but will add that expensive preamps are often expensive cases with ordinary stuff inside. There are good UK made 'active' preamps and Quads own these days are very good indeed! Just a thought...


Modern ATC's don't seem to be as neutral in balance as the ones made twenty odd years ago, the upper mids seemingly being boosted slightly post SL bass driver updates.

IF you can thrash the living daylights out of them, you'll find the volume and dynamics very realistic, but at lower levels in a domestic environment, there are good modern passive speakers that are far more 'Quad like' in the best sense of the term. ATC's actives can exhibit a 'flatness' of perspective which doesn't matter to ex-Naim owners, as they never had it much to start with, but times have moved on at this area of the market in my opinion. The amp packs in 50's at any rate cannot be made bigger as the bass driver would suffer with 'popping' I was told. maybe it's different now, I don't know!

OK, I'm going to nail myself to the mast again and suggest a listen to Harbeth 40.1's for starters. Perfect for a 606mk2 as they're a fairly easy load and NEED the power available, the midrange given from the 'Radial' cone and the very carefully designed (not in the least bit 'stodgy') bass driver, may just do the job for you. Spendor have an alternative (SP100 in whatever version it is now), but it's not promoted on the UK market.

I've also been a huge closet fan of Sonus Faber. Yep, you pay a heck of a lot for the cabinets, but these superb confections-in-wood shouldn't be dismissed, as the innards are really well designed and 'blended together' too. Visuals are so important to this end of the market, whatever people say to try to contradict this, and this maker, to me any way, gets the visual and sonic performance really well balanced, the whole package in many of their models giving huge musical satisfaction (the Chinese made Venere models are superb too and almost;) affordable).

Loads of others to choose from, but the two makes I've majored on above are designed by music lovers FOR music lovers and if fairly recent experiences are anything to go by, should show a very clean pair of heals to ATC's smaller actives at normal domestic volume levels. I haven't even mentioned the current Tannoy biggies yet, which seem a heck of a lot less coloured than 'stock' models of the 70's which go for such silly money - IMO.

To finish, I should add that the two serious ATC's with a seemingly unfettered dynamic response are the 200 and 300 models, which make ALL their smaller models sound compressed, small (! :eek:) and rather boring. The 150 may come some way to bridging this gap, but the amp packs aren't as powerful as the biggies from memory.

So, before shelling out thousands of pounds. PLEASE try to get a listen to the others I've mentioned. Quad 63's CAN sound truly enchanting if correctly set up (many aren't IMO!) and the 606mk2 is a damn fine amp, just lacking the visual 'cachet' to make it the true classic amp it is I think.

P.S. I haven't mentioned Martin Logan. You should try to get a listen to some of the mid-size models too I think.

[The Black Adder]

I know that Audio Flair have my old Quad II's currently for sale. Modded to use KT88's by Glenn Croft... they are stonking amps for ESL's.

[eisenach]

Thanks to all the thoughtful and helpful replies so far.

Well, I'm rather pleased to say that English Audio in Hereford, much to my delight, tell me today that they are going to have the active 40s on demo in a week or so, that seems like an excellent place to start.

There's no hurry I suppose, apart from maybe missing the ATC SCA2 preamp at an attractive price, but then, maybe it would suit the Quad 606 anyway.

[Andrei]

Hi Martin
Interesting situation. I have only just heard ATC actives this last Xmas and I was seriously impressed. I think either way you will have something special: ESLs or Actives! Anyway don't miss that demo and be sure to take in some of your own music.
I suppose keeping both is impractical? You could have the ESLs for a Bach Cantata, and the ATCs for something more robust like a Haydn Symphony.

[walpurgis]

A friend of mine was using ATC SCM100A speakers and they sounded very transparent through the mid and top. I was less impressed with the bass, it was tight and extended, but seemed to not have the scale you'd expect. I also heard slight woody colouration in the upper bass, probably from the large paper pulp cone. I'm not sure I'd have a pair over the Quads even though the ATCs cost a lot of money.

[wee tee cee]

Martin,
I moved from 63s (which i will keep ) to Frugel3s made by Electricbeach. They are as beguiling as the 63s with the ability to go harder and deeper. Close coupled t amps create a quasi active set up.Beresford Capella serves as an excellent active pre. Thread on TAS.

[YNWaN]

In my experience ATC's and ESL63's are very different things and I would be surprised if you liked both.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I own Quad 57's, ATC ASL50's and the ATC SCA2. The quads sound excellent with valve gear, especially Radford and Quad amps and they sound hopeless on ATC SCA2 preamps. The SCA2 and the ASL50's together make a very potent mix, especially with a decent vinyl front end :eyebrows:. The quad and ATC speakers are chalk and cheese. I personally like both. My advice is try before your buy.

[eisenach]

I own Quad 57's [...] and they sound hopeless on ATC SCA2 preamps.

I wonder why that is ? What does the SCA2 do (what's the power amp, by the way) that the 57s don't like ? I would have thought that a preamp is just a switch box with gain that gives a more or less clear window onto the original signal. The SCA2 is supposed to be very transparent; my concern was simply that it might be just too good for a 606II, synergy and all that !

Thanks for all the ideas. I think the Harbeth and Spendors are more than I can really spend. The Frugel3s look good, though, especially if they become available again from the ebay kit seller. For around £250 plus elbow-grease, they'd be quite a fun project !