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Frankyc2003
24-01-2015, 13:12
:eyebrows:

Is there such a thing as 'a spare few minutes' on a Satuday morning?
Well, I have too much time on my hands you would say...

As a compulsive tweaker, you guys have probably followed my recent posts about my new Tannoy LGM 12.
Let me fist reassure you, we are still well into our 'honeymoon' period. It's love everywhere... I am not proposing to replace them by their 20 years younger eastern european conterparts.:eyebrows:
But recently I have had the faint feeling tha somethin wasn't exactly as it should be. Living in purpose build block, my floor is wood. Not the old Victorian stuff, just some pretty cheap modern stuff.
Some of the lower register was being transmitted to the floor boards. Bad news in my book. For me, and the neighbours!

So after a while :scratch: I came accross this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZxi1oZfvDA

Very instructive viewing, isn' it?

So off I go in the search of some compression springs... Relatively easy with eBay and a few ideas on how they work.
A few days later, here we go:

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz275/frankyc2003/temporary_zps8af65fa2.jpg (http://s835.photobucket.com/user/frankyc2003/media/temporary_zps8af65fa2.jpg.html)

Simple 2mm thick wire, 5 coils with a outside diameter of 21mm. 12.99 GBP on eBay. It should take the load easily (nearly 20kgs per speaker), without throwing it into stratosphere.:eyebrows:

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz275/frankyc2003/temporary_zps60fc24fc.jpg (http://s835.photobucket.com/user/frankyc2003/media/temporary_zps60fc24fc.jpg.html)

Now starts the game of patience, the 'spare few minutes on a Saturday morning' as per my introduction to this post.
The difficulty here is to evenly balance the speakers on those 4 springs. it's all about weight distribution. So you kind of have to imagine where is the heaviest point of the speaker and try to position it dead center to the rectangle formed by the 4 x springs. If you have a bad back, please ask for some help. You will have to move the spaker millimeters buy millimeters, so be aware of their weight!

In the end an even distribution will give you a nice bounce on your spakers. Visually th 'pressure' on all springs should be equivalent. meaning, no spring is squashed more thant the others.

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz275/frankyc2003/temporary_zps44df1fae.jpg (http://s835.photobucket.com/user/frankyc2003/media/temporary_zps44df1fae.jpg.html)

A bit like this.

So, now I can hear all of you shouting, why the hell is he doing all this! Is it going to work?

On goes this 'torture' test album for the bass performance of your system.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4f/MassiveAttackMezzanine.jpg

Before my very cheap 'seismic' isolation treatment, the first track would send my furniture buzzing like it was possessed by a swarm of honey bees, not nice!
Now, thanks to a little Spring, it feels a lot calmer here. And guess what?
The bass performance is so much better, tidier and leaner, yet bitting like a staffordshire terrier...
the upper register have benefited from this tweak too. More details is perceptible in the mix. And it seems that the sounstage hs gained a few inches in height, something I had not envisaged possible before.

DISCLAIMER!!!:stalks::stalks::stalks:
So, feel free to follow my modest take on Townshend path, of seismic isolation. But, please, again be very careful when balancing those speakers of yours, make sure help is at hand, take your time and do it slowly. Don't come and blame me if your precious coils come crashing on your feet and hands, smashing your precious collection of Ming vases, etc.... Make sure no kids or pets are messing around either... The whole tweak once achieved is WOOBLY, meaning fragile and potentialy unstable. Also, I am using bookshelf spakers here. I am not sure how that would work with floorstanders. Here you are a bit on your own. I won't be held rsponsible!:stalks::stalks::stalks:

Well, I hope you will find this post beneficial, if not instructive.
Happy tweakin!
:cool:

brian2957
24-01-2015, 14:03
Interesting Francois . Got a link to where you got the springs from ?

Frankyc2003
24-01-2015, 15:15
Interesting Francois . Got a link to where you got the springs from ?

of course.

here it is. They hav quite a few types of spring, so you should be able to find your match.

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/eurosprings?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

brian2957
24-01-2015, 15:24
Thanks :)

awkwardbydesign
24-01-2015, 21:44
I have used Siesmic Sink type supports under speakers with great effect, but I made the older inner-tube version. Advantage is that they are adjustable by changing the air pressure, disadvantages are that they need pumping up now and again, and the rubber eventually perishes.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m604/awkwardbydesign/Isobarics%20November%202012/SeismicSinks002.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/awkwardbydesign/media/Isobarics%20November%202012/SeismicSinks002.jpg.html)
My current bass cabinets weigh 60Kg, and I want to use springs this time. I have calculated the spring rate and dimensions for a 2-3Hz resonant frequency (which is what Max uses) but they will cost about £80 for 8!
The principle is VERY effective, not just with isolation, but improving the sound too. And if you can support a mid/treble cabinet free of the bass cabinet that also cleans up the bass, surprisingly more than MF/HF performance.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m604/awkwardbydesign/Isobarics%20November%202012/07052013807-Copy_zps9c1efd24.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/awkwardbydesign/media/Isobarics%20November%202012/07052013807-Copy_zps9c1efd24.jpg.html)
Ugly, I know, but they have changed anyway now.

Frankyc2003
25-01-2015, 00:52
WOW!:stalks:

this is taking it to another level altogether.

looking very good!

how do you adjust the pressure on the support?

CageyH
25-01-2015, 07:27
I would guess that it is through the valves sticking through the panel?

Frankyc2003
25-01-2015, 08:14
With the bike pump!
That would make sense.
Considering the size of the cabinets, you'd have to get quite a few bars of pressure to make a difference to the springs.
This is very interesting!

AlfaGTV
25-01-2015, 08:18
Variations on a theme! I use another soft isolator; a rubber thingy called NoVibra.
It is usually used in mechanical workshops, as an intermediate material between lathes, cnc's and other types of equipment and the concrete floor. Sometimes also as a buffer material to surround huge chunks of concrete within the floor to create vibration fre foundations for precision machinery.
For thos purposes the sheets of NoVibra can be anything from a 4"*4" up to meters in square.

I use even smaller pieces of this, between the floor and stands i have four of these, about 1" in a square, then between the stands and bottoms of my Yamaha NS1000M's there were four pieces again, this time about a square 1/2 inch each.
This was my preferred "isolation" for a long time!

Then, i decided to try something i thought would be good in a soft coupled setup; mass! First i used garden tiles, some concrete plates about a square foot each and some 10kg each. Those were placed on top of the speakers with five small pieces of NoVibra as an interface and protection.
And believe me, there was a significant improvement! So i decided to get some even heavier stuff to stabilize the whole setup. I got meself some cut granite from a road construction nearby, and it only cost me a couple of bottles of Amarone! ;)
So now there are granite slabs, each 8cm thick and weighing about 25kg adding mass to the speakers (which already are quite heavy) and once again the improvement was not slight! Bass is tighter than ever, articulation and transparency improved significantly.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/25/e6bf40b84f2dfbe3c1422cb61ecdc54a.jpg
So if you have the option, try mass loading together with soft coupling!

awkwardbydesign
25-01-2015, 09:59
With the bike pump!
That would make sense.
Considering the size of the cabinets, you'd have to get quite a few bars of pressure to make a difference to the springs.
This is very interesting!

Yes, the bike pump. It is possible to level the support by pushing and pumping at the same time. Not in use at the moment, as the steel top cab supports mean the old set won't fit. Now the top cabs are supported from the steel box section from the back, using small springs on the bolts to provide some isolation (not properly evaluated yet) and running straight down to the solid floor (oak on concrete). I remade the old steel supports and oak veneered them to hide them somewhat.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m604/awkwardbydesign/JENZEN%20SEAS%20ER/7e8e502a-11e2-403c-a0e0-2a82118adc3b_zps0bb63014.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/awkwardbydesign/media/JENZEN%20SEAS%20ER/7e8e502a-11e2-403c-a0e0-2a82118adc3b_zps0bb63014.jpg.html)
The bass cabs can be slid out without disturbing the top cabs, just disconnect the external crossover and pull! http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?32483-Another-Troels-Gravesen-Jenzen-build

Frankyc2003
25-01-2015, 10:26
This is getting very exciting��
I have a couple of very dense granite slabs weighting around 15kgs each. Provided I increased the thickness of the springs, I could try mass loading easily.
Where would you recommend to buy the NoVibra from?

Frankyc2003
25-01-2015, 10:29
This a truly impressive setup you have here. I fear that in my case the speakers would end up with my downstairs neighbours ��
Yes, the bike pump. It is possible to level the support by pushing and pumping at the same time. Not in use at the moment, as the steel top cab supports mean the old set won't fit. Now the top cabs are supported from the steel box section from the back, using small springs on the bolts to provide some isolation (not properly evaluated yet) and running straight down to the solid floor (oak on concrete). I remade the old steel supports and oak veneered them to hide them somewhat.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m604/awkwardbydesign/JENZEN%20SEAS%20ER/7e8e502a-11e2-403c-a0e0-2a82118adc3b_zps0bb63014.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/awkwardbydesign/media/JENZEN%20SEAS%20ER/7e8e502a-11e2-403c-a0e0-2a82118adc3b_zps0bb63014.jpg.html)
The bass cabs can be slid out without disturbing the top cabs, just disconnect the external crossover and pull! http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?32483-Another-Troels-Gravesen-Jenzen-build

AlfaGTV
25-01-2015, 20:03
If you're near a Clas Ohlson-store they sell the exact same thing:
http://www.clasohlson.com/uk/Anti-Vibration-Pads/30-9687

Regards /Mike

Ronksley
25-01-2015, 22:14
This is very interesting
Previously have messed about with putting weights on top of speakers and really feel it did tighten the sound up:)
Also spring based mounting which I wasnt so sure of
25kg on top of a speaker ! couldnt lift anywhere near that much and what it crushed the speaker:eek:

I have been thinking about getting some of these both to go on top of and under speakers

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/28mm-rubber-weight-disc-black-id_1042311.html#

Also to use to build up my strength as recovering from being very ill but to weak to carry stuff like this home from the shop

Frankyc2003
26-01-2015, 12:08
If you're near a Clas Ohlson-store they sell the exact same thing:
http://www.clasohlson.com/uk/Anti-Vibration-Pads/30-9687

Regards /Mike

Cheers. That's pretty cheap too!