View Full Version : Devialet Phantom Loudpeakers
Time we had a thread on this speaker I think since it does seem to promise an awful lot for a very reasonable price.
This is a bit of a puff piece but it gives an idea and there is more info available if you goggle:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/technology/55570/devialet-hits-a-high-note.html
At £3.5K for a pair of the silver phantoms (3000 watts) it is within the reach even of deadbeats like me - and you don't need power amps or speaker cable since the amps are built in and the speaker is wireless.
If they really do what is claimed (and that is a big 'if' in this industry, I grant you) then we are talking about game-changing stuff.
Thoughts, anyone?
walpurgis
24-01-2015, 11:08
Not much tech info there. Bet it uses conventional drivers and lots of equalisation.
looks like a large suppositary :lol:
Lot of money for a posh mono boom box. Don't take it seriously. US price seems to be $1999 or $2300 for the super (3000 Watts? WTF?)
You can "hear one" here vibrating away on a table in a limo. Put a load of lead inside it and it might be better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLyPWdLIfno
Actually it shouldn't vibrate too much as the main drivers oppose each other... what it is really like vibe wise at high volume practically? Dunno.
walpurgis
24-01-2015, 12:34
It looks rather like a Cabasse product.
Lot of money for a posh mono boom box. Don't take it seriously. US price seems to be $1999 or $2300 for the super (3000 Watts? WTF?)
]
There's a single class A amp and multiple class D amps inside. The stand doubles as a heat sink. 3000 watts stills seems a bit incredible, though, given the size of the thing.
I wonder if anyone in the London area can pop down to Harrods next month for a listen and report back?
There's a single class A amp and multiple class D amps inside. The stand doubles as a heat sink. 3000 watts stills seems a bit incredible, though, given the size of the thing.
I wonder if anyone in the London area can pop down to Harrods next month for a listen and report back?
Especially if that is a true RMS rating. Can that really be?
We'll have to wait for the boffins to don their white coats and do some independent testing to confirm that, I suppose.
Personally I find them to be an interesting concept, although there's nothing novel about active speakers per se. I suspect that a few people may have to eat humble pie in that their performance is likely to be much better than the lazy 'lifestyle' label some have applied.
Personally I am glad that a company is trying something innovative rather than yet another cones and wood loudspeaker. Devialet have some serious engineering chops, and I wouldn't bet against these sounding rather impressive. They aren't even stupidity expensive, which I am impressed by. If they are successful I wouldnt bet against a rapid price rise.
The D line amps are light years ahead technically and conceptually from the vast majority of European and american HiFi, and I have been a distant admirer of this company for some time. It will be very interesting to see where their vision takes them next.
3000w eh?
A couple of these will save my band ever having to lug PA again then...:lol:
walpurgis
27-01-2015, 00:21
There are modestly priced, powerful, light and small amps about:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CROWN-XLS2500-POWER-AMPLIFIER-DRIVECORE-2400W-PA-DISCO-MUSICAL-EQUIPMENT-/130763742599?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item1e72205d87
I believe these are quite well regarded.
There's a single class A amp and multiple class D amps inside. The stand doubles as a heat sink. 3000 watts stills seems a bit incredible, though, given the size of the thing.
I wonder if anyone in the London area can pop down to Harrods next month for a listen and report back?
It’s bollocks, mate… Most likely another prime example of ’technology triumphing over musicality’, as happens so often these days in audio.
Knowing your tastes, you’d be far better off with a nice Class A valve amp and a big pair of JBLs or Tannoys!
:exactly:
Marco.
It may well be bollocks but it is important in this game to keep an open mind about stuff you've never heard. These speakers are potentially interesting, hence this thread.
Having said that I seriously doubt they will be as good as a big pair of classic JBLs but you try finding some for sale ;)
walpurgis
28-01-2015, 09:56
Maybe they sound like Linn Saras. :D
It may well be bollocks but it is important in this game to keep an open mind about stuff you've never heard. These speakers are potentially interesting, hence this thread.
Having said that I seriously doubt they will be as good as a big pair of classic JBLs but you try finding some for sale...
Lol - well, if you look beyond your ‘back yard’, and in the right places, say Japan or Germany…. ;)
In hi-fi, something is only ‘potentially interesting’ to me if it’s likely to sound superb, as ultimately, that’s what concerns me most: hearing my favourite music at its best. Technological innovation in audio is nothing unless backed up by outstanding sonic performance - and in a way that redefines what was previously achievable.
In that respect, I see nothing in the design of the Devaliet Phantoms which fulfils that criteria. Therefore, until hearing them and being convinced differently (and I’d always remain open minded about that), I’d file them into the category of another modern monstrosity, championing ‘style’ over substance.
Marco.
Maybe they sound like Linn Saras. :D
Or NVA ‘Cubes’? :eek: :spew:
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
28-01-2015, 10:12
Lol - well, if you look beyond your ‘back yard’, and in the right places, say Japan or Germany…. ;)
In hi-fi, something is only ‘potentially interesting’ to me if it’s likely to sound superb, as ultimately, that’s what concerns me most: hearing my favourite music at its best. Technological innovation in audio is nothing unless backed up by outstanding sonic performance - and in a way that redefines what was previously achievable.
In that respect, I see nothing in the design of the Devaliet Phantoms which fulfils that criteria. Therefore, until hearing them and being convinced differently (and I’d always remain open minded about that), I’d file them into the category of another modern monstrosity, championing ‘style’ over substance.
Marco.
Maybe they have both style and substance. The two need not be mutually exclusive!
Indeed, Hugo, hence why I said that before forming a conclusive opinion on their sonic abilities, I’d have to hear them first. However, they’re not a design, where upon seeing them on a website (or whatever), I’d think to myself: ‘Oh, those look interesting’… ;)
Marco.
This is what I consider as ‘interesting’ (depressing ‘lounge music' aside):
fY9I4Xb1lE0
Or these:
DFgqK8ex8k0
‘Proper’ speakers!! Show me any modern designs that can compete with those, musically, in terms of effortless scale and realism, and I’ll be very surprised indeed.
If only all hi-fi shops were like Kenrick Sound. One day I will visit there…. :)
Marco.
Spectral Morn
28-01-2015, 12:28
Devaliet seem to me (my perception) to be a kind of high end/more audiophile Bose meets B&O, very much lifestyle products (hate that term) and there is nothing wrong with that as such. I am sceptical re these speakers but not having heard them I can't offer much except sometimes surprises are to be had in unlikely packages.
I once heard a pair of these very unlikely, hand grenade style B&O speakers - Beolab 3
http://static.trustedreviews.com/94/00002667c/c6f1/1467035125-81b6901944-z.jpg
and I was very surprised re how good they sounded, nice tonal balance, good imaging and pretty impressive considering the size. How they would sound in a non B&O hifi I don't know, not even sure they can be hooked up to a regular system. The Beolab 5s were incredible.
http://beophile.com/wp-content/gallery/beolab5/beolab5_10.jpg
So these Devaliet's might be very good.
Regards Neil
Beobloke
28-01-2015, 12:53
How they would sound in a non B&O hifi I don't know, not even sure they can be hooked up to a regular system.
They can indeed. They don't have a dedicated phono socket input unlike some models of B&O active loudspeakers, but a line level signal can be fed into their proprietary 'Powerlink' 8 pin DIN connector. Phono plug to Powerlink leads can be purchased from B&O or aftermarket specialists like Sounds Heavenly.
Apologies for the thread drift - as you were!
Spectral Morn
28-01-2015, 13:14
They can indeed. They don't have a dedicated phono socket input unlike some models of B&O active loudspeakers, but a line level signal can be fed into their proprietary 'Powerlink' 8 pin DIN connector. Phono plug to Powerlink leads can be purchased from B&O or aftermarket specialists like Sounds Heavenly.
Apologies for the thread drift - as you were!
Thanks Adam, interesting to know. I recall Stereophile reviewing the Beolab 5's with non B&O electronics and it was doable but a real fudge of a set up. Still they got an excellent review.
Regards Neil
Beobloke
28-01-2015, 14:29
Thanks Adam, interesting to know. I recall Stereophile reviewing the Beolab 5's with non B&O electronics and it was doable but a real fudge of a set up. Still they got an excellent review.
Regards Neil
The 5s are different to the other models and a bit more complicated, as you need a B&O remote handset to activate them and operate their inbuilt volume controls. All of the other models simply act like any other active loudspeaker, however, and have a signal sensing circuit to bring them in and out of standby.
Starterman
28-01-2015, 19:04
Bit more info here ladies:
http://en.devialet.com/assets/v2/White-Paper-Phantom-en.pdf
The SAM technique appears to be able overcome the box tuning limitations. Looks like they have about 2/3rds of the driver area (and a bit more pk-pk travel) of my speakers - and they produced sufficient bass at NEBO - so I would assume they can play loud and deep. Of course SAM also includes real-time bass reduction with signal level to avoid bottoming of the drive units.
I reckon they could be very good indeed and would love to hear a pair. Of course 90% of the character comes from >200Hz so it's vital that they got the mid and treble right.
It would be mice to see some polar response measurements as their diffraction loss argument needs some evidence to support it.
Great to see somebody moving away from the stuck in a rut conventions of most speaker makers!
I will not be surprised at all if these speakers aren't quite competitive with similarly priced amp and speaker combinations and beyond.
Flavour of the month brand for sure. Haven't heard any though.
SAM technology sounds interesting though, but what I would be concerned about is the sound signature it adds, as is the case with all DSP and active correction.
I also don't see what there would be to "correct" with SAM with my Royd speakers considering that there is no crossover on the main driver, which is already optimised for correct response ("critically damped at all frequencies" and proper phase response) relative to the unit.
EDIT: just took a look on Pinkfishmedia, indeed it seems that some people who have experienced SAM prefer it left off...
It is interesting that so many people seem to be philosophically opposed to these speakers and their technology, both here and elsewhere. There is considerable vitriol on Wigwam, PFM etc., especially given that nobody has heard them yet.
Accepting that we audiophiles are a very conservative, clan ish and reactionary bunch, I can't think why this should be the case. There are some fundamental advantages to the devialet approach which should help rather than hinder performance, but many seem to object to the technology as a matter of principle rather than outcome or performance. No wonder we get an endless rehashing of decades - old techniques and products. Personally I do see value in vendors innovating and don't think the audio industry would be interested the parlous state it is today if there was more of it.. We seem to take the view that by definition there is nothing new to be achieved in the field of audio reproduction, and I do always find that an extraordinary outlook.
Lets wait and see what they sound like first rather than condemning them out of hand.
Cheers,
Alex
It is interesting that so many people seem to be philosophically opposed to these speakers and their technology, both here and elsewhere. There is considerable vitriol on Wigwam, PFM etc., especially given that nobody has heard them yet.
Accepting that we audiophiles are a very conservative, clan ish and reactionary bunch, I can't think why this should be the case. There are some fundamental advantages to the devialet approach which should help rather than hinder performance, but many seem to object to the technology as a matter of principle rather than outcome or performance. No wonder we get an endless rehashing of decades - old techniques and products. Personally I do see value in vendors innovating and don't think the audio industry would be interested the parlous state it is today if there was more of it.. We seem to take the view that by definition there is nothing new to be achieved in the field of audio reproduction, and I do always find that an extraordinary outlook.
Lets wait and see what they sound like first rather than condemning them out of hand.
Cheers,
Alex
Hi Alex, I agree, listening should be what we are aiming for, but that wasn't really my point. It was more to do with the fact that every now and then, a manufacturer starts to get a huge amount of momentum via marketing, press, forum threads etc., and then fades out. For a while it was Karan amps on Wigwam, Tellurium Q cable everywhere... it becomes more important, as you rightly post out, to cut through all the marketing & hype, and actually listen to the stuff.
EDIT: just took a look on Pinkfishmedia, indeed it seems that some people who have experienced SAM prefer it left off...
I got the impression from what I read that you can dial it in to varying degrees from fully on to fully off. Which complicates the issue a bit.
Starterman
29-01-2015, 17:07
Flavour of the month brand for sure. Haven't heard any though.
SAM technology sounds interesting though, but what I would be concerned about is the sound signature it adds, as is the case with all DSP and active correction.
I also don't see what there would be to "correct" with SAM with my Royd speakers considering that there is no crossover on the main driver, which is already optimised for correct response ("critically damped at all frequencies" and proper phase response) relative to the unit.
EDIT: just took a look on Pinkfishmedia, indeed it seems that some people who have experienced SAM prefer it left off...
Since the Royds are ported, then there is definitely something to correct.
I can't imagine Devialet SAMing Royds, but you never know. If they did, SAM should improve the LF transient response and extend the bass. Whether this suits the voicing of the speaker is another matter. I also wonder what happens to the mid range distortion/quality when the mid/bass unit is doing greater excursions (due to the more extended bass)
Not everyone wants to hear clean extended bass, and having speakers that are capable in this area may need some re-optimisation of the rest of the system.
Gordon Steadman
29-01-2015, 17:14
It is interesting that so many people seem to be philosophically opposed to these speakers and their technology, both here and elsewhere. There is considerable vitriol on Wigwam, PFM etc., especially given that nobody has heard them yet.
Accepting that we audiophiles are a very conservative, clan ish and reactionary bunch, I can't think why this should be the case. There are some fundamental advantages to the devialet approach which should help rather than hinder performance, but many seem to object to the technology as a matter of principle rather than outcome or performance. No wonder we get an endless rehashing of decades - old techniques and products. Personally I do see value in vendors innovating and don't think the audio industry would be interested the parlous state it is today if there was more of it.. We seem to take the view that by definition there is nothing new to be achieved in the field of audio reproduction, and I do always find that an extraordinary outlook.
Lets wait and see what they sound like first rather than condemning them out of hand.
Cheers,
Alex
They suffer under the yoke of Bose. Anything that needs huge equalisation is going to be suspect. However, as you say, it would be interesting to hear how they sound. I must admit I hate the way they look but then I'm an old git and have certain fixed ideas about what is attractive and well designed.
Hi Neil, sorry if that sounded like it was directed at you or anyone else in particular - I didn't mean it that way. I agree that this launch is getting a lot of attention, mostly negative though it seems, because it is novel. There are lots of sort of 'posh Bose' comments going around that are a load of rubbish - their amps are extremely capable bits of kit, and I suspect that these might well be more than decent too.. I think the approach is interesting from an engineering point of view, and VFM appears to be pretty reasonable so they aren't just some sort of LVMH bauble. Time will tell if they are any good and the proof of the pudding etc...
Cheers,
Alex
Hi Neil, sorry if that sounded like it was directed at you or anyone else in particular - I didn't mean it that way. I agree that this launch is getting a lot of attention, mostly negative though it seems, because it is novel. There are lots of sort of 'posh Bose' comments going around that are a load of rubbish - their amps are extremely capable bits of kit, and I suspect that these might well be more than decent too.. I think the approach is interesting from an engineering point of view, and VFM appears to be pretty reasonable so they aren't just some sort of LVMH bauble. Time will tell if they are any good and the proof of the pudding etc...
Cheers,
Alex
No worries at all, I didn't think it was directed at me, fair comments and I thought they applied to me too hence my reply. :)
The Devialet amps match the best I have ever heard at a much lower price.
On the Phantom the coaxial mid treble unit is an effective idea IME. Having a spherical front will be much better than on a box. Lets face it, speaker enclosures are only boxes because they have been the cheapest easiest things to make using the technology available until quite recently, not because it is correct for good sound, it isn't.
The bass driver diaphragms are new and had to be metal domes to take the pressure on the inside generated by producing such low bass from such a small enclosure.
IME the engineering at Devialet is the best in the industry today but the marketing is arrogant and stupid. If there is going to be a problem with these IME it will be with the software for streaming, not the working sound quality IMO. It looks a bit ambitious for the time they have had to work on it.
For a "kitchen" system only it a mains cable and a phone are needed. For stereo, surround sound and up to 24 units playing together their Dialog box is needed too.
Also there is currently no way of playing LPs through it, though maybe one could use one of their amps connected to their Dialog wireless device to connect the record player, though this is hardly an inexpensive solution...
Frank,
I K ow you've ordered a pair... when are you expecting delivery? I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions.
Regards,
Alex
Frank,
I K ow you've ordered a pair... when are you expecting delivery? I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions.
Regards,
Alex
They are due to ship "after 16th February". The original quote was shipping 20th January so I suppose there may be another delay.
I am sure they will sound superb, only concerned about the software which has not actually been seen finished yet.
I will give my impressions and maybe even take them to Scalford if I get them working in time.
awkwardbydesign
04-02-2015, 09:05
but the marketing is arrogant
Devialet IS French. :lol:
But I will be very interested in their sound, though.
My silver Phantoms have arrived. The sound quality is excellent for the price IMHO. The Phantom was originally launched as a high quality mono unit for streaming but it has been announced later that up to 24 can be driven from a single Dialog wireless streamer with stereo, 5.1 and so forth coming.
Well the mono streaming works fine, stereo streaming has the odd stutter from one channel but playing stereo from a CD transport to an optical input on one of the speakers works well.
5.1 and the USB and optical connections on the Dialog have not yet been implemented in the software.
They need an internet connection to set them up and to launch the control programme, Spark, after powering down.
As a streamer they are really not suited to a hifi dinosaur like me, but I admire the use of modern engineering to get such a wide frequency bandwidth and near point source solution.
I am taking mine to Scalford but not guaranteeing I can get them going properly, though I expect with the expert help available there it should be OK.
Interesting, Frank, and enjoy. I didn’t know you were exhibiting. Perhaps we’ll bump into each other again in the bar? ;)
:cool:
Marco.
Interesting, Frank, and enjoy. I didn’t know you were exhibiting. Perhaps we’ll bump into each other again in the bar? ;)
:cool:
Marco.
Hi Marco, I am not officially exhibiting, but since they are here and people seem interested I thought I would take them along. I have a long standing offer from Serge to share his room if they arrived in time, we will probably have a go at doing a setup in the bar reception area on Saturday evening.
Look forward to seeing you.
Cheers, Frank. Won’t be there on Saturday, but will be there on Sunday, with Del. See you there! :cool:
Marco.
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