View Full Version : Recommend me a new 12" tonearm
Wakefield Turntables
21-01-2015, 18:56
I fancied a Thomas Schick 12", or even a SME V 12 on my Garrard 301. Has anyone tried either of these or maybe an alternative. I'd like any advice from fellow 12" owners :eek:
I fancied a Thomas Schick 12", or even a SME V 12 on my Garrard 301. Has anyone tried either of these or maybe an alternative. I'd like any advice from fellow 12" owners :eek:
12" Jelco is quite good as you can add heavier counterweights and also different head-shells.
Dominic is just plinthing a 401 for me at the moment with a 12" clearaudio universal arm on and his DH1 cartridge, expecting it to sound stunning!
SME I never really got on with, I have a 9" V sat here doing nothing, maybe the 12" version is better who knows!
Wakefield Turntables
21-01-2015, 20:09
Dave,
You've probably got a grands worth of Tonearm in the 9" V just sitting around :eek: Not heard the DH1 so cant comment. I've seen 12" Jelco tonearm floating around on ebay for <£500 quid. Good luck with the 401, I'll stick with my 301 and see how good I can get it to sound!
How about an AO PU7, or a Funk offering?
montesquieu
22-01-2015, 01:39
I didn't gell with the Schick stick. Never got adequate resolution or tracking ability (at that time I was using Koetsus).
AO PU7 12in is god-like in its grip and expansiveness, but expensive (I had one of those as well).
Enjoyed the Ortofon-based Alfred Gerd 12in arm - good value - but the niggles remained.
Tried an SME V12 (on loan) but like all modern SMEs, it was yawnsville. (your mileage may differ).
With the right cartridge (medium compliance) the Funk arm was awesome and I'd definitely consider buying one if they were a wee bit cheaper. Unfortunately I only had one on loan. (For what they are they are overpriced - if it was £600 they'd sell shedloads).
In the end I've moved away from 12in arms as I think they can sometimes (not always, but sometimes) make the music feel slow. Gone back to 9in Audio Note Arm3 for my main arm and a variable headshell 10 1/2in (ATP12T).
Oldpinkman
22-01-2015, 07:51
I didn't gell with the Schick stick. Never got adequate resolution or tracking ability (at that time I was using Koetsus).
AO PU7 12in is god-like in its grip and expansiveness, but expensive (I had one of those as well).
Enjoyed the Ortofon-based Alfred Gerd 12in arm - good value - but the niggles remained.
Tried an SME V12 (on loan) but like all modern SMEs, it was yawnsville. (your mileage may differ).
With the right cartridge (medium compliance) the Funk arm was awesome and I'd definitely consider buying one if they were a wee bit cheaper. Unfortunately I only had one on loan. (For what they are they are overpriced - if it was £600 they'd sell shedloads).
In the end I've moved away from 12in arms as I think they can sometimes (not always, but sometimes) make the music feel slow. Gone back to 9in Audio Note Arm3 for my main arm and a variable headshell 10 1/2in (ATP12T).
The SME made you yawn and is £4000. The funk arm was awesome, but overpriced. Funks web site is down - £8000, £10,000, how much are they?
Oldpinkman
22-01-2015, 07:58
Of course, you are welcome to pay high value money for expensive looking products which sound poor. Sometimes, for those of us lacking the originality and skills, there is value in paying those who have them, instead of expecting them to gift what they have
It's an old story, but a good one
There is an old story about a multi-million dollar power plant that had mysteriously ground to a halt. All efforts to restart it had failed and an expert was brought in. After studying the problem for a few minutes he took a hammer and hit one of the valves. With a rumble, the plant came back to life. Incredulous glances were shared, grateful cries and high-fives were exchanged. Later, the expert’s bill arrived for the amount of $10,000.00. The outraged executive in charge thought “All he did was hit a valve with a hammer, this bill is ridiculous.” he asked for an itemized breakdown and the consultant responded with a bill that read: “Hitting valve with hammer $10.00. Knowing which valve to hit: $9,990.00.”
:D
montesquieu
22-01-2015, 09:24
The Funk arm, from memory is £1500-£1600. I'm reluctant to pay that for a modded Rega. But with the right cartridge it sings. No science to that, just a gut feeling - feels too much to pay for what it is. Others may call it differently.
As for the SME - from the grey hair among the guys you meet in this hobby, I'm sure most of us have been in the hifi game long enough to know that price often bears no relation whatsoever to sound quality. Some 'aspirational' gear makes lovely furniture though!
Oldpinkman
22-01-2015, 14:12
The Funk arm (FX-R) has been replaced by the FX3 - same price. £1500 - but, ridiculously, is now good value, because it has a bearing assembly which actually costs Funk less, because they don't have to pay someone elses margin, to strip and rebuild their hub. Although utterly irrational, there is no doubt the "modded rega" stigma has held the FXR back. It will be interesting to see if being "FX3" clears the stigma
http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/FX3_zps75464673.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/FX3_zps75464673.jpg.html)
But it's the same sounding arm at the same price from the same firm (OK - it sounds a bit better, but mostly it's a makeover now Arthur has expanded arm production enough to design and manufacture his own bearing and pillar)
The F5 is Un-be f****g -believable too at £750 (and, in relation to this thread, there is a 12" version**) but nobody, but nobody seems to have tried one (apart from me). If I can ponce a shop-soild F5 off grumpy for forum evaluation, does anyone fancy trying one?
** when I was down at the factory a couple of weeks ago, I got to see the SDG (Super Deck Grande), the big brother of LSD (Little Super Deck). This has the vector drive system, but an enlarged plinth and a 9" and 12" F5 fitted. For people more interested in playing with record players, than playing records (nobody tell Arthur I said that)
;)
montesquieu
22-01-2015, 14:15
The Funk arm (FX-R) has been replaced by the FX3 - same price. £1500 - but, ridiculously, is now good value, because it has a bearing assembly which actually costs Funk less, because they don't have to pay someone elses margin, to strip and rebuild their hub. Although utterly irrational, there is no doubt the "modded rega" stigma has held the FXR back. It will be interesting to see if being "FX3" clears the stigma
http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/FX3_zps75464673.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/FX3_zps75464673.jpg.html)
But it's the same sounding arm at the same price from the same firm (OK - it sounds a bit better, but mostly it's a makeover now Arthur has expanded arm production enough to design and manufacture his own bearing and pillar)
The F5 is Un-be f****g -believable too at £750 (and, in relation to this thread, there is a 12" version**) but nobody, but nobody seems to have tried one (apart from me). If I can ponce a shop-soild F5 off grumpy for forum evaluation, does anyone fancy trying one?
** when I was down at the factory a couple of weeks ago, I got to see the SDG (Super Deck Grande), the big brother of LSD (Little Super Deck). This has the vector drive system, but an enlarged plinth and a 9" and 12" F5 fitted. For people more interested in playing with record players, than playing records (nobody tell Arthur I said that)
;)
Very happy to give one a go I have a Rega pattern armboard for the Thorens all ready to go ... the Miyajima is pretty low compliance though. Wasn't aware of the bearing change.
Oldpinkman
22-01-2015, 14:19
I won't see him till February (maybe late February) but I'll ask. His focus on overseas, and consequent lack of UK dealers does him no favours, and leaves me feeling a lonely loony on a forum like this.
I know he is more likely to have spare "soiled" F5's than brand spanking new F3's (the arm in the picture). Compliance isn't an issue - apart from the variable effective mass on FX3 and F5, just add weight at the headshell if you have a low compliance cartridge. If you need a mass loading I could probably get grumpy to supply a headshell weight too. Remind me after the tax returns are in.
The Barbarian
22-01-2015, 15:42
If i were to buy a 12" it would deffo be a SME '3012R'
I would rather have the SME M2-12R
http://www.sme.ltd.uk/content/Series-M212R-1536.shtml
The Barbarian
22-01-2015, 16:39
I totally dislike the aesthetics of that arm
anubisgrau
22-01-2015, 17:10
depends how much you want to part with.
the best overall player for me is kuzma stogi 4P, i think it's 10.5" but nevertheless absolute cutting edge performance, musical, forensic, detailed, full of grip, transients, energy dynamics. not sure how much it is in the UK.
you are almost there with stogi S12 VTA.
also plain stogi S12 sounds great but i dislike handling. even 9" is too wobbly for me. one has to be really careful with it.
another great 12" arm is reed, not sure which one i listened but i guess they all work. a beautifully voiced, almost lyrical in presentation.
I totally dislike the aesthetics of that arm
They're no worse than that of the 3012R. :D
The Barbarian
22-01-2015, 17:58
They're no worse than that of the 3012R. :D
Your having a laugh right? :D
Your having a laugh right? :D
No! :D
http://schwarz-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/SME.3012R-1.jpg
SME 3012R arm
vs.
http://www.fanthorpes.co.uk/images/www.fanthorpes.co.uk/large/th41407231372SMEM212RTonearms.jpg
SME M2-12R arm
The Barbarian
22-01-2015, 18:26
:nono: You been on the Vino or summert Barry?
:D
:nono: You been on the Vino or summert Barry?
:D
Not yet! :lol:
Either one or the other is what I’ll be fitting to my TD-124 (or grey ‘Hammerite-finished’ Audio Grail-refurbished 301), when I get it. The arm will be graced with my vintage SPU. Should be a nice combo, and a little different from the Techy… ;)
Marco.
Ali Tait
23-01-2015, 11:00
Left field choice, how about the Trans Fi Terminator?
Heard one on a 401, sounded fantastic.
Jonneville
23-01-2015, 15:52
I have a 12" Schick on my TD 124, with a simple Midas-bodied 103, Yamamoto headshell (with fancy leads from Marco) and Schopper armboard. I think it sounds superb. I don't have much to compare it to, apart from my previous Rega Planar 2 and Dynavector 10X, but the Thorens set-up is in a completely different league, far superior despite the cheaper cartridge. I used a bit of common sense with the Schick and found it in its homeland, on German ebay - no waiting and a good price - they pop up on there from time to time.
Regards
Jon'.
How about also considering a 10" tonearm as a compromise between the strengths of 9" & 12" arms? Helius, SME, Jelco etc. offer 10" tonearms.
Good suggestion, Neil. Not enough people (with T/Ts which can house them properly) use 10” arms - either going for a 9”, or straight to a 12” arm, presuming that the latter will automatically be ‘best’.
In my opinion (and experience) a good 10-incher is hard to beat [no sniggering please at the back of the class], and offers the best of both worlds, making it in turn, in many instances, the ideal choice :)
Marco.
Good suggestion, Neil. Not enough people (with T/Ts which can house them properly) use 10” arms - either going for a 9”, or straight to a 12” arm, presuming that the latter will automatically be ‘best’.
In my opinion (and experience) a good 10-incher is hard to beat [no sniggering please at the back of the class], and offers the best of both worlds, making it in turn, in many instances, the ideal choice :)
Marco.
In that case how about the Brinkmann 10.5 arm (based on the Breuer Dynamic 8C)? http://www.brinkmann-audio.de/main.php?prod=tonarm105&lang=en
Oldpinkman
23-01-2015, 19:05
What budget do you have Andrew? Are you looking for used bargains only?
In that case how about the Brinkmann 10.5 arm (based on the Breuer Dynamic 8C)? http://www.brinkmann-audio.de/main.php?prod=tonarm105&lang=en
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/KYkWdA.jpg
Gorgeous!! :thumbsup:
Marco.
topoxforddoc
23-01-2015, 20:57
Enjoyed the Ortofon-based Alfred Gerd 12in arm - good value - but the niggles remained.
Hi Tom,
What niggles did you find with the Alfred Gerd Bokrand Ortofon 212? Just interested, as I have one, which I haven't mounted yet. Just deciding where to cut a hole in a pristine slate plinth for my Garrard 401.
I have an AGD Ortofon 212 12 inch tonearm and a rewired Hadcock 228. Or I could sell both and buy a Trans-fi terminator. Probably planning to run my second Decca (Garrott Bros Gold), as this is my second TT (other one is a Platine Verdier with a Schroeder and Hadcock).
In that case how about the Brinkmann 10.5 arm (based on the Breuer Dynamic 8C)? http://www.brinkmann-audio.de/main.php?prod=tonarm105&lang=en
Certainly looks like a "kick arse" arm.
Ali Tait
23-01-2015, 21:34
Hi Tom,
What niggles did you find with the Alfred Gerd Bokrand Ortofon 212? Just interested, as I have one, which I haven't mounted yet. Just deciding where to cut a hole in a pristine slate plinth for my Garrard 401.
I have an AGD Ortofon 212 12 inch tonearm and a rewired Hadcock 228. Or I could sell both and buy a Trans-fi terminator. Probably planning to run my second Decca (Garrott Bros Gold), as this is my second TT (other one is a Platine Verdier with a Schroeder and Hadcock).
Can't help thinking a Terminator would sidestep all the issues re. conventional arm length and it's effects on sound. What other issues it would introduce is of course another issue, but I've always been very impressed on the occasions I have heard one.
Forget about any vintage 12" Ortofon arm, they are all now hopelessly dated with an 'agricultural' build quality and poor bearings. The only 12" Ortofon arm worth considering is the new (Jelco built) RS 309D: http://www.peakhifi.co.uk/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command=ShowProduct&db_pid=357 £2250.
I had one of the Bokrand arms and now have a 3012. I really don't think there's much, if anything between them from an audio point of view. The arm lift was a little odd on the Bokrand arm, and the connector was a unique DIN that he's since replaced with a standard SME type. It may be more of a home-built arm (adjusting the counterweight is particularly tricky) but it's as good as a 3012 IMO.
Wakefield Turntables
26-01-2015, 09:02
Forget about any vintage 12" Ortofon arm, they are all now hopelessly dated with an 'agricultural' build quality and poor bearings. The only 12" Ortofon arm worth considering is the new (Jelco built) RS 309D: http://www.peakhifi.co.uk/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command=ShowProduct&db_pid=357 £2250.
Jelco are building ortofon arms? Might be an idea to check out the differences between the jelco 12" arms v the ortofon 12" arm, perhaps jelco could better value for money?
They’re all made in the same place, dude, by Jelco, albeit by different ‘divisions’ of the same company.
Jelco are a MASSIVE Japanese company, who not only produce tonearms under their own name, but bespoke OEM designs for many ‘high-end’ brands, including Ortofon, but also manufacture their own bearings. They’re a very serious engineering company! :)
Marco.
They’re all made in the same place, dude, by Jelco, albeit by different ‘divisions’ of the same company.
Jelco are a MASSIVE Japanese company, who not only produce tonearms under their own name, but bespoke OEM designs for many ‘high-end’ brands, including Ortofon, but also manufacture their own bearings. They’re a very serious engineering company! :)
Marco.
Agreed
The 12" Jelco arm is a steal at £500-£600
Wakefield Turntables
26-01-2015, 10:37
Just checked out the spec, I would have to have a custom made counter weight made for some of my heavier exotic headshell/MC combinations I.e. The 31g denon 301 in machined milled aluminium headshell :(
Just checked out the spec, I would have to have a custom made counter weight made for some of my heavier exotic headshell/MC combinations I.e. The 31g denon 301 in machined milled aluminium headshell :(
speedy steve will oblige I am sure
IsoKinetik also make a special jelco counter weight
montesquieu
26-01-2015, 10:52
I had one of the Bokrand arms and now have a 3012. I really don't think there's much, if anything between them from an audio point of view. The arm lift was a little odd on the Bokrand arm, and the connector was a unique DIN that he's since replaced with a standard SME type. It may be more of a home-built arm (adjusting the counterweight is particularly tricky) but it's as good as a 3012 IMO.
I would agree with this. My only reservation about it is that I'm no longer a fan of 12in arms!
Jelco are building ortofon arms? Might be an idea to check out the differences between the jelco 12" arms v the ortofon 12" arm, perhaps jelco could better value for money?
It's probably identical under the skin though may differ in details and quality of execution. My 9in Jelco 750 was transformed with a trip to J7 - bearing fettle and Kondo rewire made it the equal of my other arm at the time, an FR 64S. I don't doubt the 12in would benefit from that too - suspect it wouldn;t be needed by the Ortofon (though you never know ...).
ooo errrr just remembered, I sent DOM a brand new 12" Jelco in black with heavy counterweight, its going spare now if any one is interested
as I used something else
I would agree with this. My only reservation about it is that I'm no longer a fan of 12in arms!
I came to that conclusion quite some time ago, although there are 12” arms, and 12” arms, as it were.
There’s still something fundamentally ‘right’ about the sound of a 3012 and an SPU, and some of the vintage Denon 12” broadcast arms work a treat with the DL-103, but in general, the sexiest sounds happen with a quality 10-incher, which for me retains the ‘fun factor’ of a good 9” arm and offers a goodly dose of the smoothness/refinement of its bigger brother, without its often musically constrained ‘precision’.
Marco.
And what about 12" like the Schroeder or mine (Fuchs) ?
Magnets and wood in them, minimal contact points, expansive too.
Hi Didier,
I’ve not heard either of them, so can’t comment. However, both brands have a very good reputation :)
Marco.
Hi Didier bit of a shameless plug, but have you seen my thread here? Not 12 inch, but 10 inch... Thought this was relevant to the discussion.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?36074-Helius-Scorpio-4-10-inch-silver-wired-version
Interesting thread, especially as I prefer the 12inch arms, for their smooth, relaxed, style. I have owned a lot of arms...and I do mean a lot. Graham , VPI, Triplanar, Ortofon, SPJ, and almost every SME model made.
I always ended-up returning to the SME designs. The market is not easily fooled over the long term, and the market consistently chooses SME arms over the rivals. Year after year, decade after decade. They outsell the rivals because, as an overall package,they offer a bit more. Just enough to keep them ahead.
To me, the V-12 and 312s sound stunning, and that is up against arms at over £10,000. They have the finish, design, back-up and long-term value that rivals can never quite manage.
Of course, if you want an arm to colour the sound, or be 'exciting' or whatever, you might want to look elsewhere.
As for Arthur's stuff, it is very clever, very fine, but a bit like a lotus against a Porsche...you choose according to your wants and needs.
And for the very best, you consider a great parallel tracker...but that is strictly for the brave. Best sound, most hassle. That's my 'take' on it anyway. Nothing in audio is uncontentious....
Interesting thread, especially as I prefer the 12inch arms, for their smooth, relaxed, style.
Each to his or her own, I guess, but that’s precisely what I don’t like about them, as to my ears, in doing so, they lose the ‘vim and vigour’ (one could call it ‘fun factor’) of a good 9 or 10” arm. It’s also why I find modern SME tonearms, especially the 12” ones, rather bland and boring sounding, certainly in comparison with what I’m used to.
They’re technically faultless, and undoubtedly beautifully engineered, but also rather ‘soulless’, and so rarely do they succeed in engaging me properly with my favourite music.
When I sense a piece of equipment, tonearm or whatever, ‘editing’ the musical information, contained on records or CDs, in a way that I consider as unnatural, then that always puts me off.
Marco.
I would second Marco's comments above.
To me all this 'technically perfect so it must be soulless' stuff is a bit tired. You hear it about most great designs....Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, Rolex, Leica.
...I even drive a Toŷota. It's been sitting in a freezing car park at Gatwick for a month. When we get back tonight, I want a car that starts, not charms me with endearing quirks. Same with my audio.
Sorry, but I can't get much grip on the notion of SME arms 'editing' the music. To me all this 'technically perfect so it must be soulless' stuff is just way off the mark
Well, Peter, it’s not a case of ‘so it must be’, as if we’ve simply ‘presumed’ something without due consideration. I (and I suspect Mark, too) am telling it as I hear it, as over the years I’ve listened to various SME arms, 9 and 12”, in all sorts of different contexts, and what I’ve described above is exactly what I’ve heard.
SME’s stainless steel-based tonearms are rather different, sonically, to the magnesium ones, as to my ears, the former have more ‘life’, compared with the rather over-damped sound of the latter, which IMO is partly the cause of the ’soulless’ sonic signature I mentioned (although the effect can to an extent be ‘dialled out’ with a judicious cartridge choice).
Therefore, if I were to run an SME tonearm, it would either be an M2-9R, M2-12R or a vintage 3012 - all of which would marry nicely with my 1959-vintage SPU cartridge, which incidentally despite your scepticism, has worked out very well indeed! ;)
Marco.
Personally, I don't accept the hypothesis that SME arms are "technically perfect" - they are certainly very nicely made and finished, but that isn't the same as being technically perfect.
Wakefield Turntables
31-01-2015, 11:28
Well, Peter, it’s not a case of ‘so it must be’, as if we’ve simply ‘presumed’ something without due consideration. I (and I suspect Mark, too) am telling it as I hear it, as over the years I’ve listened to various SME arms, 9 and 12”, in all sorts of different contexts, and what I’ve described above is exactly what I’ve heard.
SME’s stainless steel-based tonearms are rather different, sonically, to the magnesium ones, as to my ears, the former have more ‘life’, compared with the rather over-damped sound of the latter, which IMO is partly the cause of the ’soulless’ sonic signature I mentioned (although the effect can to an extent be ‘dialled out’ with a judicious cartridge choice).
Therefore, if I were to run an SME tonearm, it would either be an M2-9R, M2-12R or a vintage 3012 - all of which would marry nicely with my 1959-vintage SPU cartridge, which incidentally despite your scepticism, has worked out very well indeed! ;)
Marco.
I own both types of SME arm (magnesium and steel) and would say to some extent I agree. I wouldn't say my SME V is lifeless but it does sound markedly different from my 3012. The 3012 is a lovely arm but I always get the feeling that something better exits, hence the thread....
Personally, I don't accept the hypothesis that SME arms are "technically perfect" - they are certainly very nicely made and finished, but that isn't the same as being technically perfect.
Define technically perfect. Nothing is perfect.
I own both types of SME arm (magnesium and steel) and would say to some extent I agree. I wouldn't say my SME V is lifeless but it does sound markedly different from my 3012. The 3012 is a lovely arm but I always get the feeling that something better exits, hence the thread....
Not lifeless, but ‘soulless’; there is notable a difference. It’s the rather ‘over-damped’ sonic signature of the magnesium arms I’m referring to.
Most SME owners are probably not even be aware of the effect, but that’s most likely because they’ve not been introduced to it. It won’t reveal itself fully unless one compares a magnesium SME arm directly to a stainless-steel tonearm of similar quality, preferably one of SME’s own (using the same T/T and cartridge), which will then ably highlight the effect.
Trust me, Andy, aside from perhaps a brand new M2-12R (with obviously brand new bearings), you’ll not easily find a better 12” tonearm than a 3012. All I'd do, if you haven’t done so already, is send it to Johnny (at Audio Origami) and have him fully fettle it, with a Kondo-rewire, etc, then fit it with a top-notch headshell (the stock SME ones are rather flimsy, IMO), and you’ll be gobsmacked at the results!
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
31-01-2015, 12:01
Not lifeless, but ‘soulless’; there is notable a difference. It’s the rather ‘over-damped’ sonic signature of the magnesium arms I’m referring to.
Most SME owners are probably not even be aware of the effect, but that’s most likely because they’ve not been introduced to it. It won’t reveal itself fully unless one compares a magnesium SME arm directly to a stainless-steel tonearm of similar quality, preferably one of SME’s own (using the same T/T and cartridge), which will then ably highlight the effect.
Trust me, Andy, aside from perhaps a brand new M2-12R (with obviously brand new bearings), you’ll not easily find a better 12” tonearm than a 3012. All I'd do, if you haven’t done so already, is send it to Johnny (at Audio Origami) and have him fully fettle it, with a Kondo-rewire, etc, then fit it with a top-notch headshell (the stock SME ones are rather flimsy, IMO), and you’ll be gobsmacked at the results!
Marco.
Yeah I can see where your coming from, the 3012 has more "feeling" to its presentation, the V is very clinical. TBH I like both presentations and I'm lucky enough to be able to swap between the two depending on my mood. My 3012 has already been Kondo rewired and I use a mixture of audiotechnica and ortofon magnesium head shells. I also have a choice high purity Cu/Ag cartridge tags. I think I've taken the 3012 about as far as it goes.
Yeah I can see where your coming from, the 3012 has more "feeling" to its presentation, the V is very clinical.
Yup, that’s about the top and bottom of it :)
TBH I like both presentations and I'm lucky enough to be able to swap between the two depending on my mood. My 3012 has already been Kondo rewired and I use a mixture of audiotechnica and ortofon magnesium head shells. I also have a choice high purity Cu/Ag cartridge tags. I think I've taken the 3012 about as far as it goes.
Well in that case, quite frankly, you’ll struggle to better it without spending silly money. If I were you, I’d just relax, enjoy both arms for what they are, and listen to music :cool:
Marco.
The Barbarian
31-01-2015, 12:08
Off topic a bit. How come you have a cheap Nak 'BX-125E' 2 Head machine now? Thought you had a 'CR-7'?
Define technically perfect. Nothing is perfect.
I don't have to define it, I didn't coin the phrase - as you say, nothing is perfect.
The Barbarian
31-01-2015, 12:12
Technically perfect to one man's need's & expectations is not the same as a 'Technically perfect' product
Off topic a bit. How come you have a cheap Nak 'BX-125E' 2 Head machine now? Thought you had a 'CR-7'?
Lol - I sold that ages ago, dude. Essentially I wasn’t using it enough to warrant owning it, so let it go to a good home. The BX-125E is good enough for what I mainly use a tape deck for these days, which is making up tapes to play in Del’s car. She has quite a nice little Blaupunkt cassette player in there :)
Marco.
You want neutral?
As Alan Sircom put it:
The prefix ‘tone’ in the word ‘tonearm’ should be redundant, but almost never quite achieves that goal. It should be a ‘no-tone-arm’,
because the last thing you want a pick-up arm to do is pick up some of its own tone. Trouble is, they all do; some ring, some sizzle, some clang, some go ‘boing’, some
go ‘sproingggg’; to a lesser or greater extent (fortunately, usually ‘lesser’) they all add tone to the sound of the vinyl replay process.Meet the exception.
The Funk Firm FXR II is the least ‘tone’ tonearm out there.
http://www.blackforestaudio.de/cms/upload/funk_firm/presse/Testbericht_hifiPlusFxRII.pdf
Why not try one. It might surprise you.
Check this out - http://www.analoginstruments.co.nz/
Made from Titanium, Cocobolo, Brass and Aluminium
http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y530/Andrei_nz/Elementum_zps360b73b2.jpg (http://s1279.photobucket.com/user/Andrei_nz/media/Elementum_zps360b73b2.jpg.html)
Now that is a thing of beauty - utterly gorgeous!! :stalks: :drool:
Reading the blurb, I respect the tonearm's design principles - just the sort of product I'd be tempted to buy, as it ticks all the right boxes. I can also imagine the 103 sounding a treat on the end of it....
Marco.
anubisgrau
07-02-2015, 09:56
SME V series arms are objects of beauty. very much a rolex type of product. when you touch them, the feeling is very very unique.
however in terms of sound, there's better (or much better) for money. a recent experience i've had with arms from reed and kuzma (4point) was an upgrade from V and V12. both arms were very obvious sonic improvement, especially in microdynamics, transients and overall lifelike impression.
it's a matter of choice and goals. the feeling of solidity and manufacturing quality you get with SME is unbeatable, IMHO.
i do own 3012 but it's a different thing, an era product which is not hard to beat soundwise. wonderful to look at and makes a great companion for vintage decks but can't compete with FR64 i regularly use with SPU spirit. another much cheaper arms that blow it out of water for sound are almost any japanese broadcast 12" from 70s and 80s. they can be had much cheaper. denon 12"s are sleeper killers in particular.
Now that is a thing of beauty - utterly gorgeous!! :stalks: :drool:
Reading the blurb, I respect the tonearm's design principles - just the sort of product I'd be tempted to buy, as it ticks all the right boxes. I can also imagine the 103 sounding a treat on the end of it....
Marco.
I am very interested and would like one - trouble is they do not come in 9" :wah:.
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