Turntable Isolation help/advice

[chris_s]

Hi Folks,

I'd like to ask for some sensible advice please on turntable isolation as i'm sufferring quite a lot of problems with footsteps near the turntable causing skipping etc.

I've moved to a new house and the situation is:-

Laminate flooring (probably 1st generation laminate push-together style laminate floor) probably laid on top of thin sub-board over floorboards.

The floor is a timber suspended floor (about 3ft void underneath to concrete slab foundation below) - so plenty of scope for localised floor "bounce" underfoot as you would with any timber floor.

Technics SL1210mk2 with Isonoe feet on top of a square 4-hole IKEA Kallax unit:-

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/70307493/

which is simply sat on the laminate floor on the little round self-adhesive fabric discs that come with the unit. I use the 4 shelves for record storage and box of TT accessories etc.

I spent over £100 on a set of Isonoe feet previously thinking this would be a significant step up from the stock Technics TT feet but not sure I reaped the benefits, obviously something else still needs sorting.

I haven't got the budget to splash all out on a dedicated TT wall-shelf isolation unit so need some practical advice on what i could possibly do to help improve isolation.

I have read of people using things like granite slabs with sorborthane spheres with the TT on top of that to give "mass" but not sure if that's the right approach or not especially on top of the Kallax Unit. Also have to bear in mind the Isonoes arn't very practical upon shiny surfaces as the contact is 3 stainless balls on each foot which can slide around.... I've seen the Isonoe boots but would they significantly help?

Thanks in advance!

Chris.

[Tarzan]

l used to have my Techie ( with Isonoe feet) on a eight hole Kallax unit, and have laminate flooring in my small den, the Kallax was/is filled with LP's and never had any footfall issues ever with whatever tonearm cartridge was used.

Stupid question is the Kallax filled up with LP's?

Stupid question 2; Is your Techie set up ok?

[Spectral Morn]

Several problems, lamiante floor allows movement too, so that on its flexible undersurafce, then the floor underneath, isn't a great surface to put a TT on. Putting adjustable spikes into the Ikea cubes might help a bit but to be honest I would not use these myself for hifi storage. I know folks argue its like Torlyte but it isn't really.

For footfall to cause skipping there must be a lot of movement in your floor. Normally jumping up and down would be required to cause skipping if the floor is installed ok. In saying that though suspended floors are always going to transmit some vibration because of their nature.

If the flooring was carpet one could lift it and put extra screws into the boards to help reduce movement - which would help, but lifting laminate to do this is going to be quiet a task.. The only fully isolating way of dealing with this is a wall shelf into a structural wall, away from corners to reduce any air borne bass interference and not near a door, the opening and closing of which can put vibration into the wall.


Regards Neil

[Jimbo]

Wall shelf.

[aniki]

Hi,

I've recently experienced very similar issues.
Despite having a solid concrete floor, and placing the TT on an Ikea unit (filled with 35Kg worth of amps) the TT still suffered from airborne vibrations.
I fitted Isonoe feet - Little to no improvement. Fitted Sorbothane techniboots - no improvement.
Removed (decorative) glass top panel from Ikea unit - HUGE improvement!!
Moved TT to living room floor on wooden Ikea shelf between speakers - PERFECT! No interference at all.
Just to be clear, I do believe both of the products mentioned above to be good products but in extreme cases, it can be necessary to look at the bigger picture before looking towards subtle tweaks.
-
In your situation, given the vibration is clearly coming from movement in the floor I don't think you have any better option than to go for a wall shelf....

[Lynster]

Chris, often a combination of items can form a resonant system meaning that the combo can make things worse with increased movement - i.e. the opposite of damping. Perhaps you can experiment with relocating the unit on another patch of floor where it might be OK; anything to eliminate any coupling.

You mention a concrete slab underneath the floor. Not sure if you rent or own but certainly if the latter, you or a handyman could possibly investigate underfloor as often some simple wooden wedge/s can be hammered in and take out movement where joints between bearers and joists have opened up a bit. I've done this in the past to fantastic effect and scraps of wood cost nothing.

Also, your unit apparently comes with wall fixings that Ikea recommends using. Have you used these? Even if lightweight fixings, they may help stabilise the 'system' (floor and unit). Other than that, the only truly adequate solution I can see as others have recommended is a dedicated shelf. Even here, it is important to choose a suitable location to minimise airborne vibration feedback. Isonoe feet are fantastic but only designed to take out the residual elements of vibration assuming a solid base. They can't help if the TT is set up on a trampoline.:eyebrows::)

[6L6]

I haven't got the budget to splash all out on a dedicated TT wall-shelf isolation unit so need some practical advice on what i could possibly do to help improve isolation.

The important bit about "wall-shelf" is the wall. Go back to Ikea, Get (2) of these - http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/80167473/ and (1) of this - http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/40104270/ Throw the legs away or keep for another project.

Get some proper wall anchors for your walls (likely gypsum board, drywall, sheetrock, I'm not entirely sure what you call it on your side of the pond), and some screws (long enough to go all the way from the top of the shelf to the bottom of the bracket), nuts and fender washers.

Make a wall shelf with these parts. Most of your issues will disappear. :)

[Spectral Morn]

With the potential for walls that are not perpendicular the inability to level the shelf might mitigate against that Ikea option.

My suggestion would be look for a S/H Target wall shelf or a new Project wall shelf. With the Technics not being very heavy or large a massive shelf isn't required but good fixing to the wall is, this needs done well. A rarer option would be a Mana wall shelf, which would suit the Technics well, though you could get glass shelves made for the first two options. Technics with isonoes generally like to be sited on glass.


Regards Neil

[Macca]

For footfall to cause skipping there must be a lot of movement in your floor. Normally jumping up and down would be required to cause skipping if the floor is installed ok. In saying that though suspended floors are always going to transmit some vibration because of their nature.



I have always. without exception, found that suspended floors will cause skipping even if 'being careful' around the TT. Solid plinth or suspended, made no difference. In '92 I moved into a big old Victorian house. Lifted the carpet in the living room and the floor looked like the deck of HMS Victory. Huge beams like railway sleepers. No problem with floor bounce here, I thought. Wrong. The damn thing was like a trampoline.

If you really can't afford a wall shelf I'd try a paving slab under the TT stand, sat on some sort of rubber mat, and try and site the stand across a couple of joists, near to the wall as possible.

I know some folk think they are better but IME a solid floor is always better, for everything hi-fi related, not just turntables. No way would I ever again move into a house where the listening room has a suspended floor.

[struth]

I've got concrete floors downstairs so don't have problems, but in last house even though the floor felt solid it did transfer a bit near a TT, s the slabs should help.

[337alant]

Wall shelf.

+1 for this if you have a solid wall it can completely cure the problem it did with my LP12, but also don't put the wall shelf in the corner of a room, it will still work fine its just not the best place to put a turntable

Alan

[6L6]

With the potential for walls that are not perpendicular the inability to level the shelf might mitigate against that Ikea option.


...?? That's what levels are for. If he's building it (or at least mounting it) from scratch, he can get it pretty level. Then any final tweaking can be done with the Isonoes.

I'm all for your suggestions of a proper TT shelf. But as 90% of the performance of a wall shelf is just getting the TT on the wall, an Ikea solution for less than £20 seems to be a sensible suggestion. :D :D :D

[walpurgis]

I'd suggest not getting too obsessed with how level a TT is. Of course it best to have it level, but being very slightly out of true will have little effect on the TTs working. If fitting a wall support/shelf on a wall that is not true, just use washers between the wall and shelf around the fixing screws where needed to pack out until level.

[Macca]

I always thought a deck needed to be levelled to within a minute tolerance otherwise it will surely effect tracking and the stylus will wear unevenly?

[walpurgis]

I always thought a deck needed to be levelled to within a minute tolerance otherwise it will surely effect tracking and the stylus will wear unevenly?

If you consider the possible inaccuracy in tracking and anti skating forces that a small error in level may create, they are tiny. Nothing is ever exactly level.

[Andrei]

If you consider the possible inaccuracy in tracking and anti skating forces that a small error in level may create, they are tiny. Nothing is ever exactly level.
Well one thing is for sure: Vinyl is an imperfect medium. But with something like creating a level surface (or making your own cables etc) I reckon you should aim for perfection. Nothing is surer than that you will fail in absolute perfection but at least in so doing you will get a better result. I think I have just proved this to myself as I have only just recalibrated the VTA on my cartridge - I was quite fastidious this time and whaddaya know - better sound! (I say 'I think' because I went from my Origin Live mat to my 5mm Achromat so some or all of that difference could have been to the mat. But I know I took a lot more care this time, I must have checked that spirit level 20 times!).

Well whatever, let me impart some great wisdom to one and all. Vinyl is a mistress whose station in life is above yours. She is expensive. You have to continually pander to her and constantly give her the attention she demands as her right. Digital is a mistress whom you can treat as you wish; she responds to remote control and you and stop and start her siren song with even less than a wave of your hand.

[Clive197]

............Well whatever, let me impart some great wisdom to one and all. Vinyl is a mistress whose station in life is above yours. She is expensive. You have to continually pander to her and constantly give her the attention she demands as her right. Digital is a mistress whom you can treat as you wish; she responds to remote control and you and stop and start her siren song with even less than a wave of your hand.

Well you've got that right bro.:yesbruv: