So what has Marco replaced his SPU Royal with…? [Archive]

Marco

19-01-2015, 19:40

Well, some of you who’ve been paying attention (lol), will have noticed that I’ve recently sold my SPU Royal GM MKII to a fellow AoS member - and so it’s gone to a very good home. I enjoyed it a lot, but I wanted to try something a little different… Basically, it had to fulfil the following criteria (apart from suiting my sonic tastes):

a) must be either brand new, of if not, minty-mint.

b) must be vintage - of if new, a somewhat unusual, quirky, ‘left-field’ choice.

c) must offer very high SPPV, as per all of my other kit.

Therefore, armed with some spondooliks, I’ve been trawling ebay and various other Internet sites, for the last couple of days, in order to see what cartridges I could find that ticked all the right boxes - and so for those who may be interested, here’s what I had put on my watch list, before eventually arriving at a buying decision:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321195759619?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT has anyone ever heard of these?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251797444900?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT essentially, a DL-103 ‘SA’.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321644850615?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT those have always intrigued me.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351238552911?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT always fancied an original 1950s/60s ‘broadcast’ DL-103, in a bakelite shell. Passed on it this time, though (just)!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321395445389?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT also always fancied trying an SPU ‘A-type’, as some reckon those are the best. Was going to use it on my Ortofon arm, with this chap: http://www.ebay.com/itm/390874071456?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

In that respect, this also came under my radar: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400800530327?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Now how’s this for a veritable ‘left-field’ choice - does anyone remember these from the 1980s: http://www.ebay.com/itm/281556600189?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Lastly, I was going to buy one of these lovely re-bodied 103Rs (and in fact I might still do so): http://www.ebay.com/itm/181644557134?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2661&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT and use it with one of these rather interesting headshells: http://www.ebay.com/itm/321209392653?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

However………………….. Then I spied this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ORTOFON-SPU-G-T-MOVING-COIL-PICK-UP-WITH-CASE-AND-STYLUS-GUARD-STUNNING-/141527206508?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=TjvWGYtGwrXuz6ZKBsgYIlU3YWg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

But ended up buying it through the chap’s website, for a small discount (Chris seems like an interesting guy and is going to be joining AoS, to ply his wares): http://www.oldroadaudio.com/category/specials

…which is something that I’ve *really* always wanted to try: a minty original SPU GT, with built-in JS transformers, so I bought it, and here she is in all her glory (due to arrive by this weekend)…

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/910/zDOo1v.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/538/n8gZgv.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/S1CtvO.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/f0S1CtvOj)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/xdHu63.jpg

It’ll be very interesting comparing it with the rather more modern Royal GM MKII!! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Ali Tait

19-01-2015, 19:52

Looks good mate, retrotastic!

The Black Adder

19-01-2015, 19:58

Ruddy lovely ol chap.

That's one sexy lass.

Barry

19-01-2015, 19:59

No mention of an EMT?

Marco

19-01-2015, 19:59

walpurgis

19-01-2015, 20:03

Somehow, I'm not surprised. Looks very fine! :thumbsup:

Marco

19-01-2015, 20:06

No mention of an EMT?

Ah yes, how did I forget! :doh: Knew, I’d forgotten something…. Yes I was also looking at this rather lovely EMT XSD-15, which has now been sold to someone else:

http://www.hifido.co.jp/KWXSD-15/G1/P0/A10/E/0-10/S0/C14-85337-33926-00/

After I hear yours, Barry, and if it works ok on my arm (and I like it) then sometime soon I *will* be adding an XSD-15 to my cartridge collection :)

Marco.

Marco

19-01-2015, 20:07

Somehow, I'm not surprised. Looks very fine! :thumbsup:

Cheers, matey. Now you know why, as nice as they are, a ZYX was never going to hit the spot! ;)

Marco.

struth

19-01-2015, 20:13

I fancied you for an spu.......liked the first one; it looked good enough to eat :eyebrows: Yosegi is tasty man.

walpurgis

19-01-2015, 20:18

Cheers, matey. Now you know why, as nice as they are, a ZYX was never going to hit the spot! ;)

Marco.

Don't forget Marco. I've had a vintage SPU with trannies (I took mine off). It sounded beautiful, but don't write off ZYX. If you've not tried one you'd be in for a big surprise. :) Hope you enjoy it anyway. (you will)

Marco

19-01-2015, 20:21

Lol - I’m not writing it off in that sense (sonically), just that it wasn’t vintage or particularly quirky - and that’s what I had in mind to buy! :)

As good as some of them are, most modern cartridges don’t really ‘do it’ for me, on all sorts of levels.

Marco.

Marco

19-01-2015, 20:22

Ruddy lovely ol chap.

That's one sexy lass.

Cheers, dude. I’ll bring her down sometime to ‘shag’ your TD-124! :D

Marco.

Marco

19-01-2015, 20:42

I fancied you for an spu.......liked the first one; it looked good enough to eat :eyebrows: Yosegi is tasty man.

Lol… If I hadn’t been so focussed on the vintage thing, that’s something I’d have taken a punt on. Could be a serious 'giant-killer'! Top-end ‘Koetsu' on the cheap? Who knows!! ;)

Marco.

southall-1998

19-01-2015, 20:46

Don't forget Marco. I've had a vintage SPU with trannies (I took mine off). It sounded beautiful, but don't write off ZYX. If you've not tried one you'd be in for a big surprise. :) Hope you enjoy it anyway. (you will)

Which ZYX did I hear while I was over at yours, Geoff?

S.

Andrei

19-01-2015, 21:04

Not tempted by a Miyajima Takumi Marco?
As for that headshell - good grief - over 400 bucks. You've got an ebony armboard right? Why not get an ebony headshell to maintain the same sonic signature?

Spectral Morn

19-01-2015, 21:20

Interesting cartridge Marco.

Nice web site that guy has.

Regards Neil

Marco

19-01-2015, 21:22

Not tempted by a Miyajima Takumi Marco?

A whatty? I think I saw one of those once on a Sushi menu...

As for that headshell - good grief - over 400 bucks.

Yes, but its design intrigues me, and I have a gut feeling that it’ll sound very good (as indeed I suspect will the Paradox re-bodied 103R), thus forming a formidable, potentially 'giant-killing' combination! ;)

You've got an ebony armboard right? Why not get an ebony headshell to maintain the same sonic signature?

Might also do that sometime… One can never have too many ‘interesting' headshells! :eyebrows:

Marco.

The Black Adder

19-01-2015, 21:28

I'm currently doing two e-commerce websites that use the same back-end as his website.. not exactly the same, a little better in fact, but it's good, not bad at all.

Marco

19-01-2015, 21:32

Interesting cartridge Marco.

Nice web site that guy has.

Yeah, he’s got some useful stuff, especially if you’re a Garrard, Thorens or SME fan! He’s also in Ireland. I think Chris’ll be an asset to our community - and he’ll likely gain out of it, too! :)

Marco.

walpurgis

19-01-2015, 21:47

Which ZYX did I hear while I was over at yours, Geoff?

S.

ZYX R100 (I've got three others too now, may sell one)

Spectral Morn

19-01-2015, 23:13

Yeah, he’s got some useful stuff, especially if you’re a Garrard, Thorens or SME fan! He’s also in Ireland. I think Chris’ll be an asset to our community - and he’l likely gain out of it, too! :)

Marco.

That's interesting. I would love a Thorens TD124 mk 2 but getting one without postage involved is the trick, if he is local that could be interesting if he ever has one.

Regards Neil

struth

19-01-2015, 23:18

Didn't have much thorens stuff that I saw, but sme; he is the man....as said b4, a nice web site.......hope he joins:)

That's interesting. I would love a Thorens TD124 mk 2 but getting one without postage involved is the trick, if he is local that could be interesting if he ever has one.

Regards Neil

Better with the uber 160 ;)

User211

19-01-2015, 23:20

Professionel? U Shure dat akurat?

Enjoy. Gotta be honest I have had a few Ortos and I haven't liked a single one of the F'ers. But hell, so what?:)

montesquieu

19-01-2015, 23:29

Cheers, dude - I certainly think so! Some will doubtlessly think that I’ve ‘downgraded’ from the Royal, but I’m expecting a different, but equally involving ‘take’ on the music I play through it.

I’ll certainly have it ‘warmed up’ nicely in time for the next bake-off! :cool:

Marco.

I have a vintage SPU GE and it sounds pretty wonderful (it's out on loan at the moment) ... in many ways I preferred it to the SPU Synegy I tried alongside it. The Synergy was obviously more detailed and more modern sounding, but the GE is just so musical, and, on my ATP12T, tracked better. It was very special with the Jurgen Schou vintage SUT that I had along with it, though it also sounded pretty wonderful with the S&B TX103. (The internal transformers in Marco's one are also Schou-sourced.) Very enjoyable indeed. Incidentally I kept it over the EMT XSD15 I also had at the time.

Marco

20-01-2015, 07:32

That's interesting. I would love a Thorens TD124 mk 2 but getting one without postage involved is the trick, if he is local that could be interesting if he ever has one.

He’s in Bangor, County Down, Neil. Dunno where that is in relation to you, but at least he’s in the same country! :)

Marco.

Spectral Morn

20-01-2015, 07:47

He’s in Bangor, County Down, Neil. Dunno where that is in relation to you, but at least he’s in the same country! :)

Marco.

Very close ;)

Marco

20-01-2015, 08:12

Hi Tom,

I have a vintage SPU GE and it sounds pretty wonderful (it's out on loan at the moment) ... in many ways I preferred it to the SPU Synegy I tried alongside it. The Synergy was obviously more detailed and more modern sounding, but the GE is just so musical, and, on my ATP12T, tracked better. It was very special with the Jurgen Schou vintage SUT that I had along with it, though it also sounded pretty wonderful with the S&B TX103. (The internal transformers in Marco's one are also Schou-sourced.) Very enjoyable indeed. Incidentally I kept it over the EMT XSD15 I also had at the time.

All interesting stuff! I expect to relate to the bit in bold when I take delivery of the SPU GT. The Royal was superb, in an enjoyably ‘modern’ way, but I’d like to get back to ‘grass roots’, as it were, and experience the original ‘SPU sound’, so an early and mint example like this, from the 50s, should do precisely that :)

In terms of SUTs, I found the following link, which is quite interesting, explaining the advantages of amplifying the signal ‘at source’ (which I’ve always known and sought to exploit), as well as outlining the superiority of the SUTs found in original SPU-T and SPU-GT cartridges, compared with the standalone JS transformers (No 251), which are often used. Scroll down to get the interesting stuff: http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Ortofon-SPU-T-MC-Step-Up-Transformer-Original-Made-by-Jorgen-Schou-the-best-/251334006972

Jorgen Schou 251s (as mentioned) here: http://www.kwlab.com/?p=163

What will also be interesting, having recently been so used to the sound of active amplification, via an MC head amp, is returning to the sound of transformers. However, I’ve never heard transformers used in this way (minus a separate external box and interconnects), by a) being hard-wired ‘at source’, and b) chosen by the manufacturer to *specifically* optimise the performance of the cartridge used, both sonically and electrically.

In that respect, and by using it alongside a hard-wired valve MM phono stage, such as is inside my Croft preamp, the signal path will be about as short as it gets (with no interconnect cables or plugs increasing capacitance and resistance), so I’m looking forward to enjoying the results of such musical purity! :cool:

Marco.

Marco

20-01-2015, 08:13

Very close ;)

Well, there you go... TD-124, here we come! :eyebrows:

Marco.

The Black Adder

20-01-2015, 09:22

Firebottle

20-01-2015, 10:40

.... strop down ......

Ooh eer, do they fight back? :lol:

Barry

20-01-2015, 10:57

The Thorens TD124 MKII is a wonderful bit of engineering. And is stylistically a work of art IMO. Mine runs perfectly daily and sounds splendid so I can highly recommend one to you Neil.

I had the full Schopper strip down and re-build done but there are people around who can do it for less. Try and find one that's had a full strop down if you can from the off. The motor especially. Also make sure that it's not the PAPST motor. The PAPST is a round style motor, the one your after is the E50, rectangular style motor.

Plenty of parts and upgrades out there too but I mostly trust Schopper. They really know their onions. They can even re-spray it if it's damaged in any way.

Good luck anyway.

Your views on the use of the Papst motor in the TD124/II are interesting. Papst were asked to develop a replacement to the E50 when production of the latter ceased. The Papst motor operates on a different principle from the E50 and is not a simple "drop-in" replacement; a small change to the wiring of the mains supply needs to be made.

I have read mixed opinions re. Papst vs. the E50. In fact there seems to a roughly equal consensus preferring the Papst and vice versa. The Papst motor looks to be better built; larger and more solid than the E50; but appearences aren't everything.

I have three TD124/II turntables, all of them are fitted with E50 motors. There was a time when I considered replacing one with a Papst, but on further reading and research, I abandoned the idea.

To anyone thinking about getting a TD124, I would encourage them to do so as prices are continuing to skyrocket. There is some debate as to whether the Mk. I version is better or not than the Mk.II; I cannot comment, save to say the Mk.I has a heavier cast iron platter, whereas the platter of the Mk.II is a die-cast zinc alloy (which is a little lighter but has less interaction with cartridge magnets). I have used a TD124/II for over forty years and apart from a couple of changes of the belt it has performed flawlessly.

Apologies for the thread drift!

Spectral Morn

20-01-2015, 11:05

Yout views on the use of the Papst motor in the TD124/II are interesting. Papst were asked to develop a replacement to the E50 when production of the latter ceased. The Papst motor operates on a different principle from the E50 and is not a simple "drop-in" replacement; a small change to the wiring of the mains supply needs to be made.

I have read mixed opinions re. Papst vs. the E50. In fact there seems to a roughly equal consensus preferring the Papst and vice versa. The Papst motor looks to be better built; larger and more solid than the E50; but appearences aren't everything.

I have three TD124/II turntables, all of them are fitted with E50 motors. There was a time when I considered replacing one with a Papst, but on further reading and research, I abandoned the idea.

To anyone thinking about getting a TD124, I would encourage them to do so as prices are continuing to skyrocket. There is some debate as to whether the Mk. I version is better or not than the Mk.II; I cannot comment, save to say the Mk.I has a heavier cast iron platter, whereas the platter of the Mk.II is a die-cast zinc alloy (which is a little lighter but has less interaction with cartridge magnets). I have used a TD124/II for over forty years and apart from a couple of changes of the belt it has performed flawlessly.

Apologies for the thread drift!

That's the problem, price increase. I missed out on one a few years ago because I undervalued it slightly when asked to make an offer, what it sold for I would have gone to. I know it ended up going to someone local to the seller who is a collector, I wonder if its the guy Marco has found (apparently he has a massive collection of vintage Thorens and other bits and bobs) ? Anyway thanks Barry for the drift and Jo too, all useful info.

My main desire for one is based more on the look than a belief it sounds better than what I have already, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.

Regards Neil

Barry

20-01-2015, 11:24

That's the problem, price increase. I missed out on one a few years ago because I undervalued it slightly when asked to make an offer, what it sold for I would have gone to. I know it ended up going to someone local to the seller who is a collector, I wonder if its the guy Marco has found (apparently he has a massive collection of vintage Thorens and other bits and bobs) ? Anyway thanks Barry for the drift and Jo too, all useful info.

My main desire for one is based more on the look than a belief it sounds better than what I have already, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.

Regards Neil

Knowing the decks you use Neil (SME 20 and a 'ubiquitous' Technics 1200?), I would not presume to say a Thorens 124 would be better. There are those who prefer the Garrard 301/401 for good reasons. Certainly the 124s, with their beautiful curved die cast chassis look attractive, and are a lovely example of Swiss engineering. They also sound good as well!

Marco

20-01-2015, 11:30

Ok, chap-ettes, can we talk about SPUs now? ;)

Maybe start a different thread about TD-124s….

Marco.

Tarzan

20-01-2015, 12:03

Ok, chap-ettes, can we talk about SPUs now? ;)

Maybe start a different thread about TD-124s….

Marco.

Just a thought Marco what about an Ortofon Cadanza Bronze or Black?

Marco

20-01-2015, 12:48

Both are nice carts, Andy. Are you thinking of trying one or the other? :)

Marco.

Barry

20-01-2015, 13:14

Ok, chap-ettes, can we talk about SPUs now? ;)

Marco.

OK - have a look here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?4205-Manufacturers-Ortofon).

Tarzan

20-01-2015, 14:00

Both are nice carts, Andy. Are you thinking of trying one or the other? :)

Marco.

Yes, l do not know what to go for the Cadanza Bronze ( after reading that it is a great tracker, smooth and full-bloodied) or a 2M Black, however l really enjoy what l have now, added an ART Q Headshell Damper to my SME V/Denon DL103 and to my ears sounds superb, decisions, decisions.:D, howevever l am wary of spending out on the Cadanza Bronze as l can be a tad clumsy sometimes.:cool:

Marco

20-01-2015, 16:57

Well, whilst I like the 2M Black, I’d take the Cadenza Bronze, as it’s much nearer the sound of your 103, only further refined. Anyway, we’re straying well off-topic, dude :)

Marco.

anubisgrau

20-01-2015, 17:21

an interesting choice. what is an approx. age of these? i'm asking because of the JS SUTs. i had a JS6600 SUT which is in many ways a fantastic choice to pair with SPU. however lots of SPU users end with taking the transformers out from the SPU shell.

in case these can compare with better stand alone dedicated SUTs for SPU, than i may be tempted to take an old SPU with JS transformers and send it to one of the SPU specialists for retip and overhaul.

Marco

20-01-2015, 17:38

Hi Gordan,

I think the one I’ve got is late 50s vintage, so pretty early.

However, I’ve been told by Chris (the chap I bought the SPU from) that two cartridges (mine and one identical to it, which Chris himself is using) were part of a late elderly gentleman’s estate, and were found in one of the drawers of his house, both SPUs having had very light use - as indeed you can see from the condition of the cartridge, and so most likely were bought by him from new.

Rarely do you find early SPUs in such mint condition, so I’m really lucky to have found one like that :)

I’ve used various SPUs with external SUTs, and they’ve sounded excellent, but I’ve always liked the idea of amplifying the signal right at the source, such is the case in this instance, especially when the transformers used are of the requisite high quality, with the JS items in question.

Of course, the compromise (as there is always one in audio) is their small size, as undoubtedly larger transformers, of the same quality, will sound better. However, at the expense of a longer signal path, due to the use of interconnect cables and plugs, as a result of the transformers being housed in an external box - and the subsequent increase in capacitance and resistance caused by the introduction of all of that.

In that respect, it’ll be interesting to see which of the two turns out to be the best compromise! :cool:

Marco.

anubisgrau

20-01-2015, 19:15

i'm curious because of the following: there's a chap near me who can sell me a vintage SPU with the JS trafos. the pickup needs repair but that's a good option for me to send it to SPU specialists like thomas schick. i'm hugely tempted by his retip/overhaul work, especially with the SPU/SL variables that can go fully nude.

Marco

20-01-2015, 21:12

Nice one, Gordan. That could be a good move. I’ll let you know what I think of the ‘old girl’ when she arrives! :)

Marco.

paskinn

21-01-2015, 09:35

SPS

21-01-2015, 09:35

walpurgis

21-01-2015, 10:38

Why are you confident that a cartridge that is 55 years old will work as intended.

I can't speak for Marco's cartridge, but I have cartridges around fifty years old that work just fine. I have owned quite a few vintage ones, including Ortofons and Deccas that worked perfectly. They can sound remarkable and are after all capable of being refurbished if need be.

montesquieu

21-01-2015, 11:09

Tarzan

21-01-2015, 21:01

Well, whilst I like the 2M Black, I’d take the Cadenza Bronze, as it’s much nearer the sound of your 103, only further refined. Anyway, we’re straying well off-topic, dude :)

Marco.

Marco l was being serious, the Cadanza Bronze is reputedly, full, warm and musical- a bit like the SPU?:)

thankyoumisterman

22-01-2015, 19:11

Marco

22-01-2015, 21:13

Why are you confident that a cartridge that is 55 years old will work as intended, lightly used or not? Surely many of the materials will have deteriorated over half a century. That is a very long time.

Well, of course I’m simply taking a punt on it, and one can guarantee nothing with these things. However, I’ve used similarly ‘elderly' cartridges in the past (Shure M3D, as Steve mentions, and a few others) and had excellent results. Therefore, I’m hoping the same will be the case with this SPU.

Looks wonderful, but I would have some caution about performance. Wonder what Ortofon would advise. Anyway, fingers crossed. I am going to try the SPU route, but not that old, haven't the nerve.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and all that. Besides, the only way to obtain the sound of an original SPU, is to obtain an original SPU...

Same with the Thorens 124. I think it the best looking deck ever, exactly as a deck should look. But a quick read of some of the expert threads warns you of what a nightmare they can be.....Tony L's thread on PFM outlines endless struggle and expense. Old, complex, stuff, is rarely 'fit and forget'. Again, I don't seem to have the nerve.

No doubt that can sometimes be the case, and I’ve read all about Tony’s escapades, but conversely I know of other TD124 owners who’ve been enjoying using their T/Ts for years, without any issues or fuss.

The thing that makes this risk worthwhile is the chance of obtaining the magical sound only the best vintage equipment can deliver. Often it takes a little effort to experience the best things in life :)

Marco.

Marco

22-01-2015, 21:23

One suggestion Marco (having owned several SPU variants - vintage G and GE, MkII GE, Royal N, Meister Silver, several Ortofon mono cartridges vintage and modern, and two AN-J Io's which are SPU derived) is to look at the Miyajimas. In some ways they out-SPU the SPU - big, bold and musical. I run three now, Shilable stereo, Zero mono and Premium 78.

Noted on the Miyajimas, Tom. However, I’ve got enough cartridges now for the moment.

Incidentally on the vintage SPU front I preferred the GE to the G, certainly for classical, the eliptical stylus captures a little more of everything without losing the overall feel of things, though the spherical has its charms as well particularly on 60s rock where it's feel rather than nuance you are after.

Interesting, and hear where you’re coming from. However, when I went from Ortofon's current SPU Classic GM, to the GM-E, I didn’t notice much of a difference - certainly the E wasn’t notably superior. In fact, I felt that it lost some of the ‘magic’, musically, of the spherical model. It wasn’t until I heard a Meister Silver (and the Royal) that the sonic stakes were raised considerably.

Anyway, we’ll see what happens, as the old girl should be here by Saturday! :)

Marco.

Marco

22-01-2015, 21:29

Marco l was being serious, the Cadanza Bronze is reputedly, full, warm and musical- a bit like the SPU?:)

Indeed, and that is the case, hence why as you’re currently a 103-user, it’s the CB I’d recommend over the 2M Black.

The latter is very good, but rather more ‘hi-fi', in comparison - the complete antithesis of what the 103 is all about. If you want to upgrade your cartridge, but retain what you like about the 103, then I’d advise going for one with a similar sonic signature, albeit more refined in other areas :)

Marco.

Marco

22-01-2015, 21:32

Hi Trey,

The Miyajima are great cartridges if one wants a full-bodied, meaty sound. I'd own one myself, but I've put an arbitrary line in the financial sand and refuse to spend more than x dollars on a given component anymore, whatever the provenance. I'm much more interested in buying music than gear at this time.

The Miyajima Takumi is a damned fine cartridge on its own, and might tick more than a few listeners' boxes for major listenability.

I’m still loving the DL-S1 (it was also very well received at a recent hi-fi show), so this vintage SPU is my latest punt on ‘gut instinct’. Wish me luck! If it goes as well as the DL-S1 did, I’ll be laughing :cool:

Marco.

thankyoumisterman

22-01-2015, 21:56

Hi Trey,

I’m still loving the DL-S1 (it was also very well received at a recent hi-fi show), so this vintage SPU is my latest punt on ‘gut instinct’. Wish me luck! If it goes as well as the DL-S1 did, I’ll be laughing :cool:

Marco.

I always wish a fellow audiophile luck! May we always get better than we deserve! :) FWIW, the cost of the DL-S1 is my abitrary "line in the sand" for cost containment in matters of the turntable. Are there better cartridges? I'm perfectly willing to say that might be the case, but I'm not flinging any more cash down the kennel in pursuit of them. I'm quite pleased with a Zu Denon and the DL-S1, and ready to stick with them for the time being.

anubisgrau

22-01-2015, 23:44

One suggestion Marco (having owned several SPU variants - vintage G and GE, MkII GE, Royal N, Meister Silver, several Ortofon mono cartridges vintage and modern, and two AN-J Io's which are SPU derived) is to look at the Miyajimas. In some ways they out-SPU the SPU - big, bold and musical. I run three now, Shilable stereo, Zero mono and Premium 78.

i can't put enough of ++++++++++ to this. miyajima shilabe is possibly the only pickup i've ever heard that left me with a conclusion that vinyl can not perform better. i dearly love SPU, even the modern ones that flirt with a slightly upgraded taste (i use SPU spirit as my longest lasting cartridge at home in last 20 years), but shilabe. doh...

caveat - have no experience with the AN stuff. but for what it costs and how it performs, miyajima shilabe is mindlessly amazing performer, at least with a plain stabi S, enhanced with bayadera aftermarket platter and stogi 4P arm. for me this is a borderline of vinyl experience.

Marco

23-01-2015, 07:08

Hope it works out marco, I think that sounds like my perfect cartridge.

My spu synergy is a good up to date take on the old timers, but i still prefer the sound of the old m3d... If i could only get the old shure's to track?
Been messing with old ceramics and getting a suprisingly good sound too, but not quite good enough yet?

Best of luck with it...

Cheers, Steve. I think the M3D and original SPU came out at roughly the same time. The M3D may even be older!

I’m expecting the SPU-G/T to have a similar ‘tone’ and style of music-making to the M3D (that ‘addictive sound’/boogie factor that all the best vintage equipment has - you’ll know exactly what I mean by that), but with somewhat more finesse and refinement.

I’ll bring it to the next bake-off we’re at, and you can hear it. Good luck with those ceramics! :)

Marco.

Marco

23-01-2015, 07:15

I always wish a fellow audiophile luck! May we always get better than we deserve! :) FWIW, the cost of the DL-S1 is my abitrary "line in the sand" for cost containment in matters of the turntable. Are there better cartridges? I'm perfectly willing to say that might be the case, but I'm not flinging any more cash down the kennel in pursuit of them. I'm quite pleased with a Zu Denon and the DL-S1, and ready to stick with them for the time being.

Indeed - and I completely get that. With vinyl, I just enjoy having access to different ‘flavours’ of musical presentation. The DL-S1 is near ‘technically perfect’, and sonically very accomplished. It has a beautiful balance of virtues, and just sounds ‘right’.

The SPU-G/T will be my ‘fun’ cartridge. It won’t be as technically accomplished as the DL-S1, but it should boogie like a bastard, with the right music (especially jazz and classical), and in some ways be a ‘halfway house’ between the 103 and DL-S1. That’s the plan, anyway… :cool:

Most importantly, my cartridge collection wouldn’t ever be complete without an SPU (of some description) in it!

Marco.

Marco

24-01-2015, 12:29

Well, she’s landed, and she looks as gorgeous in the flesh as she did in the pics!! :yay:

I’ve literally just popped her on, got VTA roughly right and VTF set at 3.5g, so nothing optimised yet…. BUT….. :wow: :wowzer: :eek: :eek: :guitar: :guitar: All I can say so far is that this is BLOODY SUPERB, and way up there with any cartridge I’ve ever used…!!

I’ll comment in more detail later as to this SPU’s (so far remarkable) sonic and musical qualities. However, one quick thing - the build quality on this cartridge is exceptional, and in that respect supersedes the (already high standards) of the Royal GM. It really looks the business on the end of my Ortofon arm, and has a more rounded shape compared with modern ‘whale-bodied’ SPUs.

Ok, I’m off to listen to some more music, so I can get a proper handle on what this baby is doing. I may be some time! ;)

Laterz.

Marco.

walpurgis

24-01-2015, 12:32

I thought you'd like it Marco.

The old Ortofons definitely have something. Is yours the elliptical or conical tip? Mine was conical and sounded marvellous.

Marco

24-01-2015, 12:38

Conical, dude - but it doesn’t ‘sound’ like a typical one…. No lack whatsoever of ‘sparkle' or top-end extension - and the bass… Talk about authority and gravitas!! This thing has serious ‘wallop’ :eek: I can’t wait to spin some of my vintage jazz albums, on Blue Note, and some large-scale classical! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Macca

24-01-2015, 12:56

Hi Trey,

I’m still loving the DL-S1 (it was also very well received at a recent hi-fi show), so this vintage SPU is my latest punt on ‘gut instinct’. Wish me luck! If it goes as well as the DL-S1 did, I’ll be laughing :cool:

Marco.

Have to say I preferred your TT with the Denon DL-S1 at NEBO 5 to the Ortofon Royal SPU you were using when I was round at your place. I was surprised that the Ortofon sounded so clinical - I think Ortofons are clinical in general but I thought the SPUs were a deviation from that. I actually recall thinking that I could see why some people would not prefer that presentation - too close to digital - but I had ascribed it to the character of the modded Techy rather than the cartridge. With the Denon in the clinical quality was gone so clearly it was the character of the cartridge and not the deck that I was hearing.

Not sure that adds anything but thought I'd mention it.

struth

24-01-2015, 13:43

what! no porno pics of it on the arm? :eyebrows:

Marco

24-01-2015, 13:48

Ah, so you’re admitting now that digital sounds clinical? ;)

Lol - I take your comments on board, and that's fair enough… I know where you’re coming from. The best Denon cartridges are always unfailingly musical sounding, as through judicious ‘voicing’, they’re nicely balanced, sonically. The DL-S1 has those traits in abundance - it really is a fabulous cartridge, and I could quite happily live with it without any other.

This vintage SPU, however, with its built-in SUTs, is a different ball game from the Royal. It’s a bit more ‘fleshed-out’, in terms of its tonality and style of music-making. One thing’s for sure, my gut instinct ‘punt’ into the unknown shadows of time has definitely paid off! :cool:

Marco.

Marco

24-01-2015, 13:54

what! no porno pics of it on the arm? :eyebrows:

Later, when I can drag myself away from listening and pull the camera out :)

Marco.

Tarzan

24-01-2015, 18:43

Later, when I can drag myself away from listening and pull the camera out :)

Marco.

What on earth are you talking about man?:flasher:

Barry

24-01-2015, 20:52

Why are you confident that a cartridge that is 55 years old will work as intended, lightly used or not? Surely many of the materials will have deteriorated over half a century. That is a very long time.
Looks wonderful, but I would have some caution about performance. Wonder what Ortofon would advise. Anyway, fingers crossed. I am going to try the SPU route, but not that old, haven't the nerve.
Same with the Thorens 124. I think it the best looking deck ever, exactly as a deck should look. But a quick read of some of the expert threads warns you of what a nightmare they can be.....Tony L's thread on PFM outlines endless struggle and expense. Old, complex, stuff, is rarely 'fit and forget'. Again, I don't seem to have the nerve.

Why shoudn't it work as intended? The deterioration of the rubber suspension with time depends on the type of rubber; some soften, some harden and some will last a long time. I have ADC cartridges (models 25 and 10E Mk. IV) that are forty years old and are still working well, just as I have Ortofon cartridges that are thirty to forty years old and they too are still working. Same goes for the several EMT cartridges of mine: most are at least 35 years old.

Likewise your comments concerning the Thorens 124 are pessemistic, if not alarmist. I have three TD124/II decks, all of which are at least thirty to thirty five years old. Apart from a couple of changes of drive belt and a ten yearly re-lubrication of the platter bearing and idler wheel bearing, they have had no other attention made to them and continue to work flawlessly. Same too with my EMT930 turntable. Made in May 1974, the only service it has needed has been a replacement idler wheel.

Marco

24-01-2015, 21:10

Yeah, ‘ol pasky-boy seems like a bit of a worrier! ;)

Marco.

walpurgis

24-01-2015, 21:14

Why shoudn't it work as intended? The deterioration of the rubber suspension with time depends on the type of rubber; some soften, some harden and some last will a long time. I have ADC cartridges (model 25 and 10E Mk. IV) that are forty years old and are still working well, just as I have Ortofon cartridges that are thirty to forty years old and they too are still working. Same goes for the several EMT cartridges of mine: most are at least 35 years old.

Exactly.

I also have a cluster of ADCs, the oldest being a circa fifty year old 10E Mk.II from the sixties which works perfectly and tracks remarkably well at 1.0gm (it also sounds mighty fine).

Marco

25-01-2015, 02:06

Well, having spent a large part of the day fiddling around and optimising the set-up of the SPU-G/T, I’ve got it really ‘singing’ now! :)

The sweet spot for VTF is 3.8g, which is where both tracking is securest and the tonality of the cartridge most natural sounding. Thus done, even though it has a spherical tip, end of side distortion is virtually non-existent. When ‘dialled in’ correctly, the G/T tracks very well indeed, even with demanding, heavily-modulated music.

Two things really impress with this cartridge: 1) the sheer midrange vividness/alacrity on offer (in that respect, it is near-Decca like), and 2) the cavernous bass power (amplified with killer punch by the JS traffos), which has serious extension and gravitas, but always remains tight and tuneful. There is no flabby low-end here, thus music is underpinned with convincing authority, making for an impressively purposeful sonic presentation, derived from the ‘hewn from granite’ solidity and effortlessness that the SPU-G/T majors in.

Quite simply, it makes pretty much all other cartridges I’ve heard sound distinctly ‘limp’ and anaemic, but without being ‘blowsy’ or overblown. The SPU-G/T has such an addictive way of driving music along with a forceful physicality and rhythmic adroitness, as well as making voices sound veritably ‘bell-like’, in terms of clarity; thus it is capable of delivering breathtakingly believable renditions of musical instruments, underpinned with realistic levels of dynamic attack, and so the acoustic variety, such as sax, trumpet and piano, are reproduced in scarily lifelike fashion - and with suitably pulsating intensity! :eek:

All in all, I’m delighted that I went down the vintage SPU route. All music lovers and vinyl enthusiasts should at some point hear what a cartridge like this can do for increasing their enjoyment of their record collection. In many ways, it makes today’s high-end MC cartridges sound positively impotent and musically broken. The SPU-G/T touches your soul and ignites passion during listening sessions like no other pick-up device I’ve heard. It’s one for discerning enthusiasts, who ‘listen’ to music with their hearts, not their heads.

Piccies hopefully tomorrow! Right now, folks, it’s beddy-byes :goodnight:

Marco.

ChrisKemp

26-01-2015, 08:46

Congrats! But did you consider the London Decca Super Gold or Jubilee?

montesquieu

26-01-2015, 11:01

Congrats! But did you consider the London Decca Super Gold or Jubilee?

Decca and SPU are chalk and cheese ... if you favour a big, bold, rounded sound like SPU, Audio Note Io, Miyajima, other cartridges of that ilk, then the edgy seat of the pants, explosive Decca is not going to cut it. I enjoyed a play with a Super Gold but it could never live long term in my system. I found it only worked on amplified music (adding its own character) but with acoustic music it was too unreal. The SPU by contrast, while arguably 'coloured' in comparison to something like a Lyra, always sounds like real music, not something reproduced by a 60s DJ. (YMMV).

Marco

26-01-2015, 11:28

Decca and SPU are chalk and cheese ... if you favour a big, bold, rounded sound like SPU, Audio Note Io, Miyajima, other cartridges of that ilk, then the edgy seat of the pants, explosive Decca is not going to cut it.

Interesting, Tom… I’ve heard a few Deccas now (Barry’s vintage Gold and Blue) and the top-of-the-range London, and in different ways, I liked them all. I would definitely put the sound of a good Decca (sympathetically partnered in the right system) into the ‘musical sounding’/likeable category. I could've lived with any of those that I’ve heard, albeit not as my only cartridge.

Perhaps I’m fortunate that Glenn Croft is a serious Decca fan, and so has ‘voiced’ the valve MM phono stages on his preamps to marry with the Decca sound? :)

As for SPUs being ‘coloured’ - well I guess that all cartridges are to some degree (as is all hi-fi equipment and speakers).

However, for me, whatever colorations SPUs have lie firmly in the musical domain, thus allowing them to reproduce voices and acoustic instruments with the requisite ‘body’, weight and ‘texture’, not to mention dynamic impact, in order that they sound genuinely lifelike, as opposed to the sterile and anaemic cardboard cut-out of such, presented by many of today’s so-called ‘high-end’ moving-coil cartridges.

I think the problem these days, in terms of ascertaining what type of sound is coloured and what isn’t, is that modern hi-fi equipment is voiced very differently to how the best vintage kit was, and so over the years, we’ve been slowly conditioned to consider that the rather bleached-out, spotlit, uber-detailed but ‘hyped-up’ sound, produced by the majority of today’s equipment, is automatically correct and/or ‘accurate’. Therefore, anything that notably deviates from that sonic signature is believed to be ‘coloured’ and/or inaccurate.

‘Accurate' to what, though?

The genuine sound of real voices and instruments (and/or what’s actually contained on recordings), or merely the readout on some form of test apparatus, which apparently verifies such? The two aren’t necessarily the same… In fact, experience tells me that it very often isn’t. The actuality is that things aren’t as simple as that, much as the ‘measurists’ out there would have us believe to the contrary…..

Listening to this 1959-vintage SPU-G/T has confirmed once again to me how much we’ve lost our way in audio, certainly in terms of producing equipment that is able to make music actually sound like MUSIC, as opposed to a soulless facsimile of such, derived from obsessing over (often inconclusive) measurements and ‘hifi-isms’.

Marco.

struth

26-01-2015, 11:34

too true mate... after all , its the colouration in someones voice that makes them sound differently to another. if you try and remove that totally what are you left with..

Marco

26-01-2015, 11:42

Congrats! But did you consider the London Decca Super Gold or Jubilee?

Cheers, Chris. It’s certainly up there with the best things I’ve ever bought for my system, and most definitely a keeper! :)

No, on this occasion, I didn’t consider a Decca, as I was primarily out to replace the SPU Royal I’d sold, so I guess that some type of SPU (and most likely a vintage one) was always on the cards.

However, at some point I do intend to own a Decca (not sure which one), and also an EMT - either an XSD-15, or a JSD-5 or 6, or perhaps 5G/6G (shown below):

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/oIt036.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/b15TM6.jpg

…which, along with the Denon DL-103 (that I intend to have re-bodied) would pretty much complete my cartridge collection :cool:

Pics of the SPU-G/T, in situ, to come later!

Marco.

Marco

26-01-2015, 11:45

too true mate... after all , its the colouration in someones voice that makes them sound differently to another. if you try and remove that totally what are you left with..

Precisely. Too much of today’s kit produces a rather bland, ‘homogenised’ sound.

However, it takes a clever and talented audio designer to enable a piece of audio equipment to function optimally, both on a technical level, and an ‘artistic’ one, which is where ‘voicing by ear' comes in… Only when the last bit has been successfully achieved, are the sonic results produced by audio equipment genuinely 'musical sounding'.

Hence why the best sounding kit, apart from satisfying the 'demands of the test bench’, also satisfies the demands of the designer's ears! ;)

Marco.

ChrisKemp

26-01-2015, 11:54

Decca and SPU are chalk and cheese ... if you favour a big, bold, rounded sound like SPU, Audio Note Io, Miyajima, other cartridges of that ilk, then the edgy seat of the pants, explosive Decca is not going to cut it. I enjoyed a play with a Super Gold but it could never live long term in my system. I found it only worked on amplified music (adding its own character) but with acoustic music it was too unreal. The SPU by contrast, while arguably 'coloured' in comparison to something like a Lyra, always sounds like real music, not something reproduced by a 60s DJ. (YMMV).
This is the first time ever I've read that someone found the Decca "too unreal" what ever that means. Deccas sound live, real and dynamic and I don't know any music that would not sound great played live.

I did like my Denon DL-103 and DL-103R alot and as I have read before, it can have some of the caracter as an Ortofon SPU. But I like the Decca better with all my music. Jazz, classical, accoustic or any other music.

But I would one day like to own a SPU too.

Marco

26-01-2015, 21:22

Okies, some (not too brilliant) pics….

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/538/NKUZNK.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/673/s7RyZa.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/911/9fBAxd.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/907/ps6123.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/3RMjm3.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/9hVV2O.jpg

:cool:

Marco.

struth

26-01-2015, 21:41

Nothing beats hard core porn:wow:

RichB

26-01-2015, 22:15

Luvverley

walpurgis

26-01-2015, 23:08

Always liked the 'period' look of the SPUs. Is it much different to the modern one in appearance Marco? I can't recall.

Next, why not add a Mk.IV Decca to the system, You'd be astonished. They do not sound exactly like the Londons, to my ears they have a somewhat bigger and bolder sound. Lovely!

http://i57.tinypic.com/2w52cqs.jpg

Wish I still had my 4RC, it was a fine complement to my sixties SPU and equally good.

Marco

26-01-2015, 23:20

Love it, Geoff! Funnily enough, I was looking at this, which Chris (the chap who sold me the SPU) is also selling:

http://www.oldroadaudio.com/product/nos-decca-mk2-stereo-conical-head-cartridge-in-factory-wrapper-rare

Aesthetically, it ticks all the right boxes for me, as I just love big fat cartridges like that (like blocks of fudge), which conceal all the wires internally. I suspect I’d also enjoy how it sounds! :)

As for the SPU-G/T, yes it does vary a little, in terms of appearance, from the current models. Firstly, the shell is made of bakelite (as opposed to the ‘grinded wood’ used on the latest models), and the shape of the body-shell/housing on it is also a little more rounded.

Marco.

walpurgis

26-01-2015, 23:32

That would have been a bit of a find. I can't believe there have been 'NOS' Mk.II Deccas around.

I personally would not go older than the Mk.IV. They are the first to offer conventional half inch bolt spacing headshell fitting. Previously they were designed to fit Decca arms only (adaptors can be found). Also the older models had higher tracking forces, not so good for one's vinyl.

Good examples of the Decca 4RC and C4E are still about and sound bloody amazing (and can still be serviced). They are a bit prone to picking up hum though.

struth

26-01-2015, 23:32

Have to say I love the look of those 50's styles carts/heads as well. they are so gorgeously retro yet efficient looking(and expensive) I have to stop looking I am running low on drool; at least I think it's drool;)

Marco

26-01-2015, 23:53

I personally would not go older than the Mk.IV. They are the first to offer conventional half inch bolt spacing headshell fitting. Previously they were designed to fit Decca arms only (adaptors can be found). Also the older models had higher tracking forces, not so good for one's vinyl.

I like both yours and the MKII, shown above. I probably just prefer the MKII, as it’s chunkier. Dunno what would sound best, though!

I don’t worry about high tracking forces (how could I with an SPU and DL-103?) It’s a fallacy, IME, that high VTFs ruin vinyl, providing that the stylus is in good condition and the cartridge set-up optimally. What’s much more important is in ensuring secure tracking (at whatever weight the cartridge is optimised for).

A cartridge with a sharp stylus, tracking securely in the groove at 4g, will do far less harm to records than one with a worn stylus (and/or that's incorrectly set up), skipping all over the place, tracking at 1g. I also feel it’s no coincidence that all the heavy tracking cartridges I’ve heard/used have an ‘effortless’/unperturbed quality, and a purposeful bass authority about their musical presentation.

When it comes to cartridges, I simply can’t abide screechy/lightweight sounding, sterile little squawkers! :nono:

It’s one of the reasons why I’m attracted to broadcast cartridges, and those used in professional applications (and let’s not forget that the SPU was once one), as the high VTFs make for producing a very secure, authoritative and ‘unflustered’ sound - not one that’s liable to ‘break up’ or fall apart at any second, which I detest! :)

Marco.

walpurgis

27-01-2015, 00:03

I would very much like to have another Mk.IV Decca in my modest collection of cartridges. I may indulge if I spot something sensibly priced (fat chance).

In my opinion there are three cartridges from the sixties and seventies that are real landmarks and should be tried if possible. The Ortofon SPU, the Mk.IV Decca and the ADC 10E Mk.IV (I know the 25/26 ADCs are excellent, but they only work in a few arms).

Others may cite Grado, Empire, Pickering and so on, but I feel those I mentioned (from my experience) are the outstanding examples.

Barry

27-01-2015, 00:39

I would go for either a Mk. III Decca for use in the Decca ffss (Super) arm, or lash out on the latest Decca (London) from John Wright.

But there again I could be swayed by a Decca SC4E.

Marco

27-01-2015, 14:10

Just been listening to some choons and ‘fine-tuning’ the set-up of the SPU a little further (as I’m super-anal about stuff like that), and have accordingly upped the VTF (from 3.8g) to the manufacturer's recommended 4g, which is now absolutely ‘bob on’…

3.8g was fine for the music I had been playing, but as usual some material will catch you out and show up less than optimal VTF, in this case some of the songs on my Japanese pressing of The Beatles ‘No1 Hits’ (red) album, which is superbly recorded (as is most Beatles stuff), but the highly modulated nature of the recording, combined with the fact that there are so many songs squeezed onto each side (and the subsequent sonic effects of that), showed up some slight sibilance.

Upping VTF to 4g, along with anti-skating, however, has cured it. Now, all my Beatles albums have never sounded so good! Well, I guess that a 1950s cartridge, and 1960s studio monitors (as used at Abbey Road) are pretty much ideal for the job!! ;)

Happy days :cool:

Marco.

Barry

27-01-2015, 14:14

Good news Marco! Looking forward to hearing the SPU-G/T when I see you next month. :cool:

Marco

27-01-2015, 14:22

No worries, Barry. I think you’ll like it. It shouldn't work, though, because it’s ‘so old’ - and nothing that old ever works properly, no siree, (according to some)! ;)

Marco.

Barry

27-01-2015, 14:23

No worries, Barry. I think you’ll like it. It shouldn't work, though, because it’s ‘so old’ - and nothing that old ever works properly, no siree, (according to some)! ;)

Marco.

Haha - think that sentiment could apply to me. :lol:

Marco

27-01-2015, 14:25

:lolsign:

Marco.

Mika K

27-01-2015, 15:09

This thread makes me to have ideas. Not good :D :D :D

montesquieu

27-01-2015, 17:30

Just been listening to some choons and ‘fine-tuning’ the set-up of the SPU a little further (as I’m super-anal about stuff like that), and have accordingly upped the VTF (from 3.8g) to the manufacturer's recommended 4g, which is now absolutely ‘bob on’…

The full 4g fits my experience with vintage SPUs also ... they weren't afraid of a bit of weight back then!

Marco

27-01-2015, 18:51

Indeed. There are too many ‘VTF weeny-boys’ these days, who go into a cold sweat at anything tracking above 2g!! :eyebrows: :ner:

Marco.

The Barbarian

27-01-2015, 18:59

Got to admit 2g+ frightens the living daylights out of me. im a 1-1.5g type er bloowerk

Marco

27-01-2015, 19:39

Hehehehe….. :eyebrows:

Marco.

struth

27-01-2015, 19:47

Grams....I am old school;.. I use ounces......2 ounces seems about right.:ner:

montesquieu

27-01-2015, 19:51

Got to admit 2g+ frightens the living daylights out of me. im a 1-1.5g type er bloowerk

Years of Pavlovian conditioning with stupid arms like the SME Series III that weighed less than a feather, for use at 0.8 grammes with HFN&RR's cartridge du jour .... back in the days of mullets and leg warmers. (I was there too ...).

walpurgis

27-01-2015, 19:59

It's just a different philosophy. Nothing wrong with low mass arms and low tracking weights. Some fine sounds came out of that era.

montesquieu

27-01-2015, 20:03

It's just a different philosophy. Nothing wrong with low mass arms and low tracking weights. Some fine sounds came out of that era.

Few I could afford, sadly, at the time, so I never engaged with the era particularly.

The Barbarian

27-01-2015, 20:42

It's just a different philosophy. Nothing wrong with low mass arms and low tracking weights. Some fine sounds came out of that era.

i can't get away from the low mass/high compliance.. tracking at feather light tracking malarky, it seems the right thing to do

Marco

27-01-2015, 20:52

The Barbarian

27-01-2015, 22:22

Wire the two Negs together in the headshell {Blu/Green} or just leave one off..

walpurgis

27-01-2015, 22:32

What’s he on about the pins, though? Also, why are there only three output pins and not four, like usual? :scratch:

Marco.

I think he's referring the the headshell mounting pins (threaded studs) that are screwed into the top of the Deccapod. They are a pain and often come loose. As he suggests they can be bonded in (they are not originally, just screwed in). I would not use superglue though. There are specialised industrial grade epoxies that would be better.

Later mounting blocks (not the Deccapod) came with four connection pins, but you still leave one lead loose anyway.

Personally I reckon that's a bit pricey.

Barry

28-01-2015, 01:31

It can definitely work well, but IME produces a very different type of sound from the high-mass/high VTF route… Anyway, talking of Deccas, this is one (if I were in the market now for another cartridge) I’d be tempted to go for:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Decca-London-Garrott-Bros-cartridge-with-Decapod/221575941001?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3Db96a54ad524343428b8 70a5deab90a5d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26 sd%3D141394905417&rt=nc

:)

What’s he on about the pins, though? Also, why are there only three output pins and not four, like usual? :scratch:

Marco.

I've just been looking at that ebay item!

The 'pins' are the two long, socket grub screws that fit into the GB mounting block (erroneously referred to as a "Deccapod"). When fitted, the grub screws pass through the normal 1/2" cartridge fixing slots of most headshells and are secured by two nuts. To show you what this look like, here is a photo of my Decca Gold/GB mounting block assembly fitted into your Jelco headshell:

http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy88/barrydhunt/003.jpg?t=1279642768

As for the three/four output connections, either use only one of the green or blue wires to connect to the centre connection pin, or use both. It all depends on your system: you have to choose whichever arrangement gives the least hum.

http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy88/barrydhunt/006.jpg?t=1279645413

Marco

28-01-2015, 06:52

Ah, I see… I’ve just always been used to using four wires (red, white, green and blue) to connect up a cartridge, so have never encountered the arrangement used on the Decca before.

Yeah £750 is a decent chunk of dosh, but if I were looking for a Decca right now, that’s one which would be on my radar, as I think it would sound superb :)

Marco.

DSJR

28-01-2015, 11:18

That's a GB clamp, the Deccapod is slightly different... My Microscanner now has a four pin connection and it may be that Presence Audio can supply a suitably trimmed assembly that just slides onto the back of the cartridge, as mine did.

Marco

28-01-2015, 12:15

No congrats on my new acquisition, Dave? ;)

Marco.

oceanobsession

22-02-2015, 16:30

I have had the classic gm-e spu and still have the cadenza bronze the spu is more creamy and more natural sounding, the cadenza bronze being similar but slightly more hifi but still very good , only problem is the suspension is packing up after only three years old poor really . phil.

Marco

22-02-2015, 17:40

Hi Phil,

That’s a shame about the Bronze. However, I can relate to build quality not being what it used to be with Ortofon cartridges, as when comparing how well my 1959-vintage SPU-G/T has been ‘screwed together’, as it were, with that of all the modern SPUs I’ve owned, the latter fall short of previous standards.

The primary bugbear for me is how ill-fitting the bayonet connection is on the integrated headshell of modern SPUs, compared with that of vintage SPUs, which offer a totally snug fit, with no ‘play’, as opposed to the rather uninspiring ‘shiggly’ arrangement of modern examples. It’s as if the bayonet connection of the latter is slightly narrower, thus preventing it ‘mating’ correctly with the entry point on the tonearm.

Also, the bakelite headshell, used on vintage SPUs, is more nicely finished than the ‘grinded wood’ of the headshells used on modern SPUs, and feels more ‘solid’.

That aside, I’m also still revelling in the stunning sound quality being produced by my SPU-G/T, which partnered with the superb tube MM phono stage in the Croft, is allowing me to enjoy my record collection like never before! :)

Marco.

jaym481

22-02-2015, 20:03

Yeah £750 is a decent chunk of dosh, but if I were looking for a Decca right now, that’s one which would be on my radar, as I think it would sound superb :)

Marco.

For that price I'd splash out a bit more (less than £100, I think) and get a brand new Super Gold. Or do what I did: get a used C4E off ebay for half the price (or less) and send it to John Wright (Decca London) for rebuild.

Marco

22-02-2015, 20:27

Fair point, Jay. However, I’ve always considered the vintage Garrott Bros ones as being a bit special :)

Marco.

paskinn

23-02-2015, 10:37

I've had the chance to listen quite a lot to a just rebuilt Decca Gold. What strikes me is how variable the sound is depending on the arm. The best I have heard so far is a nice unipivot with an original Townsend damping trough fitted at the cartridge end. You get a y holographic soundstage, nice and 'floaty' but with none of the brightness/aggressiveness Deccas can be prone to. However, what also strikes me, is how much this is just about personal preference. We compared it with a humble Shure 97xe. As you would expect, rather different; a smoother 'flatter' sort of sound. If you wanted, you could describe it as 'dull', or you could equally describe it as smooth and natural......
So many of the choices in audio are little more than personal choices, not 'facts' in any meaningful sense. Certainly, after hearing the LPO playing yesterday, I am reminded that reproduced music is still pretty poor. You just select the compromises you can live with...or follow the 'fashion' trends . As one example, a fashionable 'new' Moving Coil range has been given great praise in a number of reviews and appraisals. But not one of them has remarked on the inability of these cartridges to track even mildly difficult vinyl. Because 'tracking' hasn't been a fashionable topic for ages....even though a cartridge without good tracking is as useless as a car that can't go round corners.
Not to mention damaging your records.

jaym481

24-02-2015, 22:38

Fair point, Jay. However, I’ve always considered the vintage Garrott Bros ones as being a bit special :)

Marco.

Fair enough, but I'm not entirely certain what they did beyond the sticker. I think they potted the internals? JW has brought the brand a lot further in the years since the Garrot Bros met their unfortunate end, so it'd be well worth the effort to hear a new Super Gold in comparison before making the final decision. Or just splash out for the London Reference and be done with it. :lol:

WOStantonCS100

24-02-2015, 22:55

Cheers, Chris. It’s certainly up there with the best things I’ve ever bought for my system, and most definitely a keeper! :)

No, on this occasion, I didn’t consider a Decca, as I was primarily out to replace the SPU Royal I’d sold, so I guess that some type of SPU (and most likely a vintage one) was always on the cards.

However, at some point I do intend to own a Decca (not sure which one), and also an EMT - either an XSD-15, or a JSD-5 or 6, or perhaps 5G/6G (shown below):

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/oIt036.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/b15TM6.jpg

…which, along with the Denon DL-103 (that I intend to have re-bodied) would pretty much complete my cartridge collection :cool:

Pics of the SPU-G/T, in situ, to come later!

Marco.

Okies, some (not too brilliant) pics….

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/538/NKUZNK.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/673/s7RyZa.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/911/9fBAxd.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/907/ps6123.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/3RMjm3.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/9hVV2O.jpg

:cool:

Marco.

Always liked the 'period' look of the SPUs. Is it much different to the modern one in appearance Marco? I can't recall.

Next, why not add a Mk.IV Decca to the system, You'd be astonished. They do not sound exactly like the Londons, to my ears they have a somewhat bigger and bolder sound. Lovely!

http://i57.tinypic.com/2w52cqs.jpg

Wish I still had my 4RC, it was a fine complement to my sixties SPU and equally good.

Holy crap, Batman. Serious porn overload! Concentrated, even.