KLH 23'S

[karma67]

Well after seeing the link on the ebay thread and a quick pm to Geoff i put in an offer of £55 and picked these up on Saturday.
after a warm welcome from the seller he showed me the speakers,i was shocked to see a room full of speakers,big buggers too! I didn't take a closer look but could see a pair that had 12 inch keff drivers,he also showed me a pair that were called supras?? Never heard of them but i may return! lol

Back to the KLH 23's, i don't think they had been used for a while as they need a good warming up for 30 minutes and then they came to life.the walnut veneered cabinets are in good condition and will respond well to a oiling.
Geoff,you were right on the money with these,they are super! the bass is to die for and the tweeters sound lovey too,im hearing detail that id never heard before from the pageants 2's,which are now in the bedroom poor things,ive just paid out too have them recapped too! oh well that's hifi i guess!

the 10 inch drivers on the 23's have cloth surround and as Geoff pointed out they may need re sealing to keep them air tight,i think mine are ok as after a gentle push they shoot straight back out again,i may re seal them though to be sure,a recap is on the cards but to be honest they sound great in their current state.
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/_57_zps9360159c.jpg

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/20150119_174203_zpse5ccd1af.jpg

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/20150119_174256_zpsf39ef1c5.jpg

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/20150119_174309_zps2d10a15f.jpg

[walpurgis]

55 quid? That was a bargain.

Glad you like them, I thought you would.

That bass driver is a 10" equivalent by the way. If it still retains the 'air spring' effect as you depress the cone, I'd not bother redoping the surrounds. If you feel confident, carefully take the bass drivers out and measure the cap values (only one per speaker if I'm right). If they're more than maybe 25% out, change them with a similar type (and value of course). I'd be inclined to replace them anyway, they'll be about 45 years old. They'll probably be electrolytics, stick with the same type, any change may alter the treble balance.

Like other Henry Kloss speakers, they are well balanced and have extended bass for their size. The AR3 and original Advent Speaker are his designs and come from the same era. Both have distinctive tight and deep bass. the Advent also had a paper pulp 'cone dome' tweeter very similar to the Model 23 unit.

[karma67]

cool,yes sorry my mistake on the drivers,advents, now you mention it i think he had a pair of them too.
its funny,these speakers look sort of home made with the covers off, mr kloss certainly new what he was doing. :)

[istari_knight]

These look to be in good nick http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KLH-317-floor-standmount-speakers-/261747511646?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item3cf15e115e

[walpurgis]

These look to be in good nick http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KLH-317-floor-standmount-speakers-/261747511646?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item3cf15e115e

Never seen a pair with those bass units. They normally have brown cones and cloth surrounds.

[istari_knight]

I have ! :D

The one's you describe are the original/early one's. Later one's were like those pictured I believe... They also did some blue cone one's too.

[struth]

that was a nice little secret i had there for a while:lol:

[karma67]

here's some info on them.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=107798

[karma67]

a little update,
just got back from the Philippines (holiday) to find my pot of sealer from the AR ebay store had arrived.
just done both surrounds and even wet this has slowed the return down alot.
cant wait to hear the difference when its dried.

[Martyn Miles]

There is something rather nice about the look of these, along with the early ARs and the Dynaco A25.
It may be the wooden cabinets contrasting with the light colour grilles.
I still feel a speaker should look like this.
Those Kef Blades, and the like, would not be acceptable in my house.
M Miles.

[karma67]

Cheers,I love the character of them.time for a re cap soon.

[karma67]

small update.

well the sealers been done and ive just finished replacing the capacitors,like for like 4uf 50v.
their sounding much better in the highs,next job is to source some driver gasket as both have some sort of white foam under them.

very pleased as this was my first re-capping job :)

[walpurgis]

Hi Jamie. I get black craft foam sheet from art or toy shops or eBay and cut gaskets from that. An alternative I occasionally use is self adhesive black foam draught excluder strip. Places like B&Q or again eBay can provide it.

[karma67]

nice one ! that's the weekend job sorted then .

[karma67]

i got bored today and fired these up again since being replaced by the ditton 44's
i have to say there's really not much in it,the bass is definitely better they just lack hf compared to the 44's although you could say its a more natural sound perhaps?
geoff you thought they were better but i cant remember why.

[walpurgis]

geoff you thought they were better but i cant remember why.

Hard to say really. I've had a couple of pairs of Ditton 44s and just didn't find them particularly rewarding. To me, the bass is a bit stodgy. The mid is OK for detail, but lacks depth and integration, but then I've been spoilt by a diet of Tannoys and not much does mid depth, image and speed like those.

I've always liked the sound of older KLH and the rather similar AR speakers, they had good driver integration and a naturalness that appealed. A super tweeter can always be used to extend the top anyway.

[karma67]

A super tweeter can always be used to extend the top anyway.
hmm ok so how would one go about that?

[struth]

You can buy a s tweeter and put a cap in series depending on when you want it to come in freq wise. or you can get ready made ones

[walpurgis]

By having a suitable tweeter in a freestanding mount on top of the speaker. Take a feed wire pair from the main speaker terminals using a series capacitor as a filter. With the KLHs, I'd guess they start rolling off above around 12 to 15 kHz, so a gentle supertweeter roll in above that point is likely to work. Small caps are cheap and values can be experimented with. Phase reversal can sometimes be useful too. I'd start with 0.5 ufd for an 8 ohm unit and see if output is enough, it should be barely perceptible. You don't need a fancy dedicated supertweeter. Anything with a suitably extended and reasonably smooth response should serve. My favourite is the Celestion HF2000, but they're getting expensive. The old Goodmans DT3 actually works quite well, surprisingly. It rolls off above 20kHz and still has useful output at 22kHz. There are many options.

If you fancy having a bash I can help out.

[walpurgis]

I see Grant replied whilst I was typing this lot in. :D

[struth]

You put it better lol.


some xover values here http://www.amprepairparts.com/xovercaps.htm

[walpurgis]

Experimentation is best I've found. Caps will give the predicted roll in rate, but the charts will not allow for varying sensitivities. A high sensitivity tweeter will need a smaller cap to roll in at audible high frequencies. The output above audibility is less important (but still has an effect).

[struth]

Yup, its not an absolute, but a decent guide to start with. I got a load of different value caps on ebay. they are quite decent for not a lot. film ones. lets you experiment cheaply then when happy you can if you wish buy a better one of that value. Got a pair of tweeters that Geoff recommended to me in their boxes unused. think they are ribbons. might sell them soon actually as I may not use them anytime soon, and thats too long ;)

[karma67]

cheers guys,hf2000's are getting expensive but dont forget i have 2 pairs of 44's plus a spare hf2000 so thats not a problem lol.
ive just changed the alcap 4uf cap for a clarity cap poly and thats brightened them up a bit,the things you do at midnight eh!

[walpurgis]

Don't forget the HF2000 is usually below 8 ohms impedance. In fact the very nice mint pair I have from a pair of UL10 speakers is around 4 ohms. So cap values will be different. If you have a meter, check the DC resistance. I bet you find it's around 3 ohms, which under dynamic conditions (playing music) means a nominal 4 ohm (ish) load.

I do have a soft spot for Henry Kloss speaker designs. They were simple, but did what they did rather well. The Advent speaker was a marvel at its time. I've still got a pair of KLH tweeters knocking about that were intended for a yet to materialise project.

[karma67]

Yep your right. Hf2000 are 4ohms. Been busy helping a friend ply their van but I think last night's recap may have done the trick.will do some more listening tonight.