DAC to improve Sonos

[Bourneendboy]

I've tried a few DACs recently, trying to improve on the internal one in the Sonos Connect. One sounded worse, the other 3 I couldn't detect any difference. Is anyone here using an external DAC with a Connect who could make a recommendation?

[StanleyB]

I have sold quite a few DACs to SONOS users, and have had a range of feedback opinions that have caused me to scratch my head at times. The Sonos is supposed to be able to only go up to 16 bit, and many Sonos owners can't hear much of an improvement, if any, with the Caiman MKII. But most of them do hear a difference with the BM MKII. Personally I would have expected it to be the other way round, but that's not what I have been hearing. So now you have a fair idea why I have been scratching my head on that one.

[roob]

I've tried a few DACs recently, trying to improve on the internal one in the Sonos Connect. One sounded worse, the other 3 I couldn't detect any difference. Is anyone here using an external DAC with a Connect who could make a recommendation?
There is small difference, I use mine connected via coax to the dac section of my Chevron Sabre UV player which re-clocks the signal.
You could try one of these with your dac http://www.itemaudio.co.uk/prestashop/digital-converters/777-wyred-4-sound-remedy-reclocker.html

[Bourneendboy]

Thanks for your input fellas!

[AlfaGTV]

I have had my Sonos Connect for about three years and almost all the time use it with an external DAC, preferrably my Benchmark DAC-1. It sounds markedly better also with a cheap chinese MiniDAC 24/96 (Cirrus AK4396 based) which is what i use most of the time. I have my Connect wired to the MiNiDAC 24/96 and then on to a Lehmann Audio BlackCube Linear clone. The two latter is built into an old casette deck.

Imo the Connect sounds a little "grey" with its internal DAC but that property stays with it somewhat when used as transport too. A little rolled off in the top also..

[Bourneendboy]

I have sold quite a few DACs to SONOS users, and have had a range of feedback opinions that have caused me to scratch my head at times. The Sonos is supposed to be able to only go up to 16 bit, and many Sonos owners can't hear much of an improvement, if any, with the Caiman MKII. But most of them do hear a difference with the BM MKII. Personally I would have expected it to be the other way round, but that's not what I have been hearing. So now you have a fair idea why I have been scratching my head on that one.

Thanks Stan, first call, the classifieds!

[roob]

I would defiantly go for a dac that reclocks, the spdif output of the Sonos is quite jittery from what I have read.
Mark at Item would probably let you try that reclocker on a sale or return basis.

[Søren]

I have sold quite a few DACs to SONOS users, and have had a range of feedback opinions that have caused me to scratch my head at times. The Sonos is supposed to be able to only go up to 16 bit, and many Sonos owners can't hear much of an improvement, if any, with the Caiman MKII. But most of them do hear a difference with the BM MKII. Personally I would have expected it to be the other way round, but that's not what I have been hearing. So now you have a fair idea why I have been scratching my head on that one.

My take on it

Sonos use an old an mediocre reciever circuit. The BM probably makes it sound different, while the Caiman ll simply reproduces all what is bad about it.

[Ninanina]

Bill have you tried the Rega Dac?.... they are very good indeed... just a thought...;)

[Bourneendboy]

Any more suggestions chaps?

[struth]

Audio Note dacs are very good. I have a AN dac 1.0 prototype that is fabulous single mini valve dac. only one coax input though

[walpurgis]

How are you getting along with the M22a/DIP today Grant?

[struth]

How are you getting along with the M22a/DIP today Grant?

Very good so far. Cd's are sounding very sweet, so it is a keeper. Still using the AN for now with my pc although it may be up for sale later.

[walpurgis]

Very good so far. Cd's are sounding very sweet, so it is a keeper. Still using the AN for now with my pc although it may be up for sale later.

I knew it would be. :)

[Bourneendboy]

Picked up a FIIO D3 yesterday, so just trying this out now. Not a massive difference for sure, but there is a 'cleaning up' of the sound, currently, a worthwhile improvement. Runs nicely on my USB battery pack as well.

Of the DAC's I've tried so far, this is giving the most noticeable 'change', although first I've used the battery pack with.

[orbscure]

Bit late, but better late than never. When I had my Sonos ZP90 I'd just started to experiment with DAC's and the Bushmaster MK.2 powered by an Anker battery knocked spots off my first DAC, a Music Fidelity V-DAC. It was only my desire to play hi-res files which meant I moved away from Sonos to more flexible file playing system and then more expensive DAC's... For simple value for money and excellent results, the BM MK.2 was, and probably still is, a no brainer...

[struth]

Picked up a FIIO D3 yesterday, so just trying this out now. Not a massive difference for sure, but there is a 'cleaning up' of the sound, currently, a worthwhile improvement. Runs nicely on my USB battery pack as well.

Of the DAC's I've tried so far, this is giving the most noticeable 'change', although first I've used the battery pack with.

the fiio gets good reviews Bill. not tried it myself but some of those small and relatively inexpensive dacs do a grand job. i have a sabre async one on one of my laptops and i have to say for the money it is stonkingly good

[Bourneendboy]

Bit late, but better late than never. When I had my Sonos ZP90 I'd just started to experiment with DAC's and the Bushmaster MK.2 powered by an Anker battery knocked spots off my first DAC, a Music Fidelity V-DAC. It was only my desire to play hi-res files which meant I moved away from Sonos to more flexible file playing system and then more expensive DAC's... For simple value for money and excellent results, the BM MK.2 was, and probably still is, a no brainer...

I was very tempted by Vinylspinners BM 11, but having tried quite a few DAC's, I didn't want to risk the 'no difference' feeling and hassel of moving on yet another one.

The Fiio really is the first I've tried that does actually sound better than the on board DAC. Definitely more detail and an opening up of the sound, a bit more refined.
Currently using an optical cable, but will try coax later in the week.

[Thebiglebowski]

I've had a Sonos for about 4 years now with it being displaced for about 3 months by a Bluesound Node. During that time I've tried it with quite a few DACs

CA dacmagic
Arcam rDAC
Rega DAC
Unitiqute internal DAC
Maplin DAC
HiFime ESS Sabre DAC
M2tech Young DAC

Out of all these I would honestly say a DAC does little to improve/change the sound and unless you really want to would spend your money elsewhere. The Sonos is a fantastic bit of kit but I really only use it for the radio when I'm working from home or trialling albums on Spotify before buying them.

The thing I've found that blows away the Sonos is a Mac Mini with JRMC into the M2Tech, this cost me around £900 but you'd get much better results using a cheap laptop into a maplin DAC than expecting HIFI from a sonos. Of course a Mac or laptop doesn't have the convenience of the Sonos and this is probably why it has been a permamnent fixture in my rack for a while.

[roob]

Why did you get rid of the Bluesound was it no better than the Sonos sq wise?

[Thebiglebowski]

Using the internal DACs the Sonos sounded noticeably better than the Bluesound. The bluesound didn't have as much of an open soundstage as the sonos as the music seemed flatter or more closed in. This was one of the driving forces that pushed me back over to the theory that "all DACs don't sound the same". The main driver was that it only has a toslink output for digital and I didn't have enough ports on the Young DAC (Toslink - TV, Coax - Sonos, USB - Mac Mini) It was also quite slow at refreshing the library compared to the Sonos, not end of the world slow but would take about 5 mins to refresh after adding any new rips to the music folder.

[Bourneendboy]

Of the DACs I've tried with the Connect, the Fiio is still proving to be the best.

Sonlink- sounded worse

Naim DAC V1, Maplins DAC, Dacmagic 100 - these had no noticeable difference.

The Fiio really cleans the sound up.

I'd be interested to hear the Bushmaster 2 and the Rega DAC though.

[roob]

I really like what the convenience of the Connect and since subscribing to Tidal I am using it more and more. I do think streaming Tidal via my MBP into the async usb input of my Sabre dac has the edge over streaming it via the Sonos/coax into the same dac, the latter sounds a touch greyer for want of better words.
I am looking forward to seeing how the new Cambridge network player is received when it is released next month, it certainly looks very nice.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/cambridge-audio-ces-amplifier-receiver-network-player/

[shevans]

Of the DACs I've tried with the Connect, the Fiio is still proving to be the best.

Sonlink- sounded worse

Naim DAC V1, Maplins DAC, Dacmagic 100 - these had no noticeable difference.

The Fiio really cleans the sound up.

I'd be interested to hear the Bushmaster 2 and the Rega DAC though.

I tried a Rega DAC into a Brio-r with the zp90/connect and whilst there were difference I ended up using the zp90 direct to the brio-r. Sort of came to the conclusion thateither there was little between dacs or the sonos could not be improved upon.

[dave2010]

Of the DACs I've tried with the Connect, the Fiio is still proving to be the best.

Sonlink- sounded worse

Naim DAC V1, Maplins DAC, Dacmagic 100 - these had no noticeable difference.

The Fiio really cleans the sound up.

I'd be interested to hear the Bushmaster 2 and the Rega DAC though.
Is this the one? Currently seems very cheap - almost a no brainer for testing at that price - http://www.amazon.co.uk/FiiO-192KHz-Digital-Analog-Converter-Black/dp/B005PWPUW6 - currently £29.99.

[Bourneendboy]

Is this the one? Currently seems very cheap - almost a no brainer for testing at that price - http://www.amazon.co.uk/FiiO-192KHz-Digital-Analog-Converter-Black/dp/B005PWPUW6 - currently £29.99.

Yes, that's the one.

[dave2010]

I was interested in your comments re running off a USB battery pack - and maybe that is why the results are good. What kind of USB pack have you used? They appear to come in different varieties, some very cheap - probably based on regular batteries, and others may have lithium ion batteries and cost considerably more. Occasionally stores such as LIDL have fairly cheap USB battery power systems - though I have no idea how good they are - other than that I usually find that LIDL stocks products which are a bit cheaper than some other goods of comparable quality elsewhere.

Also, since the unit is not providing a high power output, it may indeed be able to work rather well off batteries, though the audio quality may ultimately depend on what comes after - the output transducers and any amplification. Audio systems often do seem to work better either with a sufficiently powerful battery power source, or a very well put together mains power supply, though I have heard some battery driven devices (cheap, and low quality!) which actually sound worse than units which use mains power, and where the induced noise comes from I have no idea.

[struth]

An Audio Note dac should be an upgrade i'd think. I have one and it sounds very good.

[Bourneendboy]

I was interested in your comments re running off a USB battery pack - and maybe that is why the results are good. What kind of USB pack have you used? They appear to come in different varieties, some very cheap - probably based on regular batteries, and others may have lithium ion batteries and cost considerably more. Occasionally stores such as LIDL have fairly cheap USB battery power systems - though I have no idea how good they are - other than that I usually find that LIDL stocks products which are a bit cheaper than some other goods of comparable quality elsewhere.

Also, since the unit is not providing a high power output, it may indeed be able to work rather well off batteries, though the audio quality may ultimately depend on what comes after - the output transducers and any amplification. Audio systems often do seem to work better either with a sufficiently powerful battery power source, or a very well put together mains power supply, though I have heard some battery driven devices (cheap, and low quality!) which actually sound worse than units which use mains power, and where the induced noise comes from I have no idea.

I'm using a Label 31 2200mAh (Lithium-ion), £10 from Tesco. Seems to last for about 36hrs before a recharge.

[The Barbarian]

Im assuming this will power a Apple 4S Mobile? , the phone charger is rated at 5V/1A.. This thing seems to eat battery life since i did the latest software upgrade :doh:

[AlfaGTV]

Just found the Arcam SonLink
Wouldnt that be the dogs b's as for upgrading the internal DAC of the Sonos?
http://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/sonlink/Product%20Flier/SonLink_flier_240114_B.pdf

[Bourneendboy]

Just found the Arcam SonLink
Wouldnt that be the dogs b's as for upgrading the internal DAC of the Sonos?
http://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/sonlink/Product%20Flier/SonLink_flier_240114_B.pdf
Of all the DACs I've tried, it has only been the Sonlink that has made it sound worse!

By the way, I believe these are now discontinued and Richer Sounds are selling the remainder of their stock at £99.

[andrasszamek]

What is the rest of your system?

[Bourneendboy]

What is the rest of your system?
System is- Sonos Connect, Fiio D3, Lehmann Linear and Sennheiser HD600 headphones.

[Gie663]

I replaced my Beresford Bushmaster with a Hegel HD25, and the sound improved to less harshness and a more detailed stereo picture.

http://www.stassen.nl/images/2476_1373548037.jpg

The system : Sonos Connect (interlink Real Cable AN99) into the Hegel HD25 dac (interlink Real cable XLR128) into Accuphase e-213. Speaker Cable Supra Ply 3.4 to Sonus Faber Olympico II.

[Bourneendboy]

I replaced my Beresford Bushmaster with a Hegel HD25, and the sound improved to less harshness and a more detailed stereo picture.

http://www.stassen.nl/images/2476_1373548037.jpg

The system : Sonos Connect (interlink Real Cable AN99) into the Hegel HD25 dac (interlink Real cable XLR128) into Accuphase e-213. Speaker Cable Supra Ply 3.4 to Sonus Faber Olympico II.


Trouble is, that is about 10 times the price of what I'd like to spend.

[andrasszamek]

ah i see, i dont have much experience with headphones sorry.

[AlfaGTV]

Revisiting this thread as i have just bought another Sonos Connect.
And it caused me to reevaluate its sonic capabilities. It sounds very decent on it's own, but gains considerably when using it with, say.. ..a Benchmark DAC-1.
It doesnt whack my MacMini/Amarra though, not even using the Sonos as a digital transport only..

[Bourneendboy]

Anyone tried a NOS DAC?

[AlfaGTV]

Assuming you're referring to a No OverSampling, yes.
I have a Micromega T-DAC from the mid 90's which iv'e used sporadically with my Sonos. Nice, but it's not my preferred flavour.