cheaper tube amps

[skimminstones]

Never listened to a tube amp before but what are the cheaper ones on the bay like? The ones between £100-£150 such as....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tube-Valve-Hi-Fi-Amplifier-Mistral-MM-1-/331446248919?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item4d2bbc65d7

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Music-Angel-MENG-MINI-P1-6P1-6BQ5-Push-Pull-Valve-Integrated-Tube-Amplifier-UKBK-/391025845607?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item5b0af4e567


Im assuming they arent great at that price but anyone know how they would compare to my NAD C320BEE integrated? Is it likely to be something that id put straight back up for sale as not good enough?

[istari_knight]

The first one is actually a hybrid amp, it uses a "chip amp" output stage... Its pretty horrible tbh. The second one I have owned or at least have owned very similar... Not bad per se but will require new [decent] valves as those included are poop, would also recommend a safety check by a tech or yourself if DIY inclined ? Quite often the cheap Chinese amps don't even bother earthing the chassis.

[struth]

I actually still have one of the incarnations of the first one. It is ok if you dont expect perfection. actually it sounds quite good or did the last time I used it. Probably will be going in the great clearout to come.

[jollyfix]

I have not owned any of these amps, but i have heard the first one. I agree with James.

[skimminstones]

how would they compare to my nad?

sound better, worse or just different? IM quite curious to hear a tube amp but dont really want to be spending hundreds of pounds just to do so. I know i could probably get most of the money back if i resold the amps so wouldnt cost much to find out i guess but equally, if its a no brainer that they will sound crap in comparision to the nad then i probably wont bother.

[struth]

I would add I wouldnt pay 100 quid for one though;) and they can be picky on speakers

[struth]

how would they compare to my nad?

sound better, worse or just different? IM quite curious to hear a tube amp but dont really want to be spending hundreds of pounds just to do so. I know i could probably get most of the money back if i resold the amps so wouldnt cost much to find out i guess but equally, if its a no brainer that they will sound crap in comparision to the nad then i probably wont bother.

as said it is not really a tube amp. You'd need to go up the scale a bit tbh.

[Reffc]

Don't be taken in by the hype or the bling. Complete waste of money imho. You cant get anything resembling a quarter decent at that budget and changing valves wont make it any better (just saying). Your NAD is almost certainly better in all respects (reasonable output, low distortion and high damping factor) plus will probably not burn itself out due to inadequate power supplies like many of the cheaper far eastern imports tend to. Good valve amps start north of £1000. Good used valve amps start north of £500. Anyhting else wont give you a taste of what a good valve amp can do, just a taste of what a not-so-good valve amp can do...chalk and cheese. In your budget, used SS all the way. Jerry's Alto for sale in the classifieds is a far wiser way to blow £100 ;)

[skimminstones]

cheers guys. Didnt think it would be worth it really but was curious. Ill give them a miss.

[southall-1998]

If more money is available....Check out Icon Audio.

S.

[awkwardbydesign]

Some of the cheap Chinese amps are fun if you know what you're doing. But probably not a good idea if you're looking for plug'n'play. I have a Yaqin MC-12B phono amp that is fine once it's modded to death, and one of these,http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTY3WDU2Nw==/z/7KYAAOSwbqpT52JE/$_12.JPG mainly because everyone else said I shouldn't! It was downright dangerous when it arrived, though. Valve amps are an itch that needs scratching, but I would wait until either you know a bit more, or can afford a decent one.

[awkwardbydesign]

Don't be taken in by the hype or the bling. Complete waste of money imho. You cant get anything resembling a quarter decent at that budget and changing valves wont make it any better (just saying).
Actually, putting in £200 worth of GEC KT66s and Mullard GZ34 rectifier have improved it considerably. And once I do the triode mod it will, by all accounts, improve again. But that's just being silly, mainly because I am. :)

[Ninanina]

Good valve amps start north of £1000. Good used valve amps start north of £500. Anyhting else wont give you a taste of what a good valve amp can do, just a taste of what a not-so-good valve amp can do...chalk and cheese.

+1

I've owned a couple of cheap'ish Chinese valve amps and while they were pretty good value for money they were definitely not 'keepers'. I fear that trying out a cheap valve amp may well put you off valves forever and that would be a shame

However a 'good' valve amp, in my opinion, is the way to go. I've had both ss and valve amps over the years and I stuck with my AN Oto as it does so many things right

As Paul has said good new valve amps start at about £1,000 and used one's £500+, so unless you want to spend that sort of money I'd give them a miss

Just my opinion, of course.. ;)

[struth]

I have one of these

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/U2c1z8.jpg

and once working on the right voltage and a better set of valves in, it is very good indeed. Think you had one Bev;) (when you sold it you said you thought it was great), and Marco had one too I think. I would say t works even better as a power amp.....but again well over budget.:)

[Ninanina]

I have one of these

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/U2c1z8.jpg

and once working on the right voltage and a better set of valves in, it is very good indeed. Think you had one Bev;) (when you sold it you said you thought it was great), and Marco had one too I think. I would say t works even better as a power amp.....but again well over budget.:)

Hi Grant, I'm sorry I forgot about the YAQIN - MC-100B. Yes that was a very good amp using KT88 valves. I've owned other Chinese amps that just didn't 'cut it' though

However I think it's a bit more than the op was thinking about spending. They can be had for about £500 new, plus any import tax etc, and for that sort of money they are very good indeed

It wasn't a 'keeper' as I rediscovered my Oto which just sounded better to me ;)

[mimoser]

Out of some same curiiosity I got one of those:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/APPJ-PA0901A-Amplifier-Original-miniwatt/dp/B00APC0VXY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1421348643&sr=8-3&keywords=appj+pa0901a
Didn’t hear it with stock included valves though. Mine came with a Gold Lion 12AX7 and two Shuguang Red EL84. I replaced the EL84s with cheap Russian NOS 6P14.
My baseline is a Yamaha EX-460 through Monitor Audio 7s, which sound very neutral with fast but light bass.
I did some comparison listening through a BTE passive, a second pair of MA 7s, a pair or wharfedale 504s and some other speakers we have in the house:
- NAD 912 / MA7s: more bass, same grade of transparency
- APPJ with Shuguang output tubes / 504s, 8 Ohm outputs: less bass control, rather wooly sound, using the 4Ohm outputs did help but not a lot
- APPJ with Shuguang output tubes / LEAK 150s, 4 Ohm outputs: more breathing in woodwind instruments, good bass control
- APPJ with Shuguang output tubes / Heybrook .5s, 8 Ohm outputs: more breathe in woodwind instruments, good bass control
- APPJ with Shuguang output tubes / MA 7s, 8 Ohm outputs: tight sound, good bass control
- APPJ with Russian output tubes / MA 7s, 8 Ohm outputs: tight sound, more bass, better bass control

My preferences are lean transparent sound and tight bass, I use and like the Yamaha/MA7 combo since 1992.
Overall the NAD 912 has a little bit more bass.
The Appj sounds a tad sweeter, but less defined. Tuberolling is cheap and easy and might bring different results. There are not many variables to worry about.

Sources used are a Heybrook TT2 with RB250 and Pickering 625e through a Trichord Dino and a MacMini through a Sabre DAC. All amps are very well able to differentiate between good and bad source quality, differences in sound and timbre are not that obvious, but discernible in an A-B comparison.

Personally I think I will keep the NAD, maybe get a pre with remote control facilities to replace the BTE passive. Valves do not seem to be my piece of cake …
;)

Did that help?
Michael

Edit and PS: it seems the Appj likes speakers true to their nominal impedance, higher impedance seems to improve control.

[awkwardbydesign]

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/U2c1z8.jpg


I've always liked the look of those. Never heard one, though.

[Covenant]

Don't be taken in by the hype or the bling. Complete waste of money imho. You cant get anything resembling a quarter decent at that budget and changing valves wont make it any better (just saying). Your NAD is almost certainly better in all respects (reasonable output, low distortion and high damping factor) plus will probably not burn itself out due to inadequate power supplies like many of the cheaper far eastern imports tend to. Good valve amps start north of £1000. Good used valve amps start north of £500. Anyhting else wont give you a taste of what a good valve amp can do, just a taste of what a not-so-good valve amp can do...chalk and cheese. In your budget, used SS all the way. Jerry's Alto for sale in the classifieds is a far wiser way to blow £100 ;)

Oh no! That means my Croft Series 7 is no good. And there was me thinking I had a good power amp....

[skimminstones]

cheers guys

i didnt really have a budget exactly. If i really wanted to pay £1000 for an amp i could but im not £1000 worth of curious and it would probably be overkill for the rest of my system anyway, (monitor audio br2 speakers and squeezebox).

I was really just wondering whether the cheaper end ones were worth looking at as a curiosity which it seems general consensus is they arent.

Shame though, cos they do look good visually dont they.

[Ninanina]

Oh no! That means my Croft Series 7 is no good. And there was me thinking I had a good power amp....

Oh I think we all forgot about Croft... yes the Series 7 is less than the £1,000 new price mentioned

However I tried the integrated Croft and didn't get on with it at all. The Oto out perfomed it... hands down better to my ears..;) But that was comparing a new Croft to a used Oto so the price was about the same... ;)

[struth]

I've always liked the look of those. Never heard one, though.

They are pretty good tbh, As I say, you HAVE to drop the input volage(I use a bucking tx) and the stock valves can be improved on. make sure the bias is right and then your fine. I recently tried my clone valve pre amp on it in power mode and have to say it has moved on to another level(good pre mind)

[Andrei]

Keith
One possibility is the 'half-way house'. It think it is is great to have valves in the system. A good valve amp really brings the singer 'into the room'. Anyway, can you use your amp as a Power Amp? In that case you could invest your shekels in a valve pre-amp. The typical 6922 12AX7 ECC81 valves are cheap to run (divide their cost by 10,000 hours) compared with power valves; and you also don't have to be bovvered with biasing.

[Covenant]

Oh I think we all forgot about Croft... yes the Series 7 is less than the £1,000 new price mentioned

However I tried the integrated Croft and didn't get on with it at all. The Oto out perfomed it... hands down better to my ears..;) But that was comparing a new Croft to a used Oto so the price was about the same... ;)

A NOS Mullard valve improved it a lot but I guess you can use that argument with any valve amp.

[Reffc]

Oh no! That means my Croft Series 7 is no good. And there was me thinking I had a good power amp....

The series 7 is a hybrid as you well know ;) Replace the output stage with conventional output transformers for the output stage, beef up the chassis accordingly, and you would be talking over a grand retail. It's also just a power amp. Add in a preamp, and again, you would be talking over a grand retail. In terms of an integrated solution, you can't do it for under a grand using the series 7 as an example. The OP basically wanted to know if a £150 valve amp could be any good and the answer remains a firm "NO".

[topoxforddoc]

A major discriminating factor in the sound quality of valve amps are the transformers used in the output circuits especially, and the power trannies. Well wound trannies around decent core material do not come cheap - not even in China. Then you can add in the quality of the other components and the circuit boards, as well as the consistency of the soldering.

[tannoy man]

http://www.soultosoleaudio.com/images/YarlandFV-34B_480px.jpg

Superb,reliable

[tannoy man]

Yarland FV 34B

[YNWaN]

All the cheap Chinese valve amps I've heard (and some not so cheap ones) have left me most unimpressed.

[tannoy man]

http://www.soultosoleaudio.com/images/YarlandFV-34B_480px.jpg

[anthonyTD]

:)
Don't be taken in by the hype or the bling. Complete waste of money imho. You cant get anything resembling a quarter decent at that budget and changing valves wont make it any better (just saying) plus will probably not burn itself out due to inadequate power supplies like many of the cheaper far eastern imports tend to. Good valve amps start north of £1000. Good used valve amps start north of £500. Anyhting else wont give you a taste of what a good valve amp can do, just a taste of what a not-so-good valve amp can do...chalk and cheese. In your budget, used SS all the way.)