View Full Version : Need advice assembling new system
Hi everyone,
My current audio system is now about 10-15 years old and I need to replace the CD, DVD player and amp. I want to put together a budget system for about £500-£600. Vinyl will be the main priority, closely followed by CDs and the music I'll be listening to will be mostly Reggae/ Dub and Rock of all kinds, along with a little Jazz and Classical. After some research I have come up with the following, but have no clue as to whether these components are best suited to one another:
Sony BDP-S5200 Blu-Ray player (£100)
TISBURY MINI PASSIVE PRE AMP (£135)
AMPTASTIC MINI-1 AMP (£100)
I’m keeping the following components:
THORENS 280 MKIV Turntable
YAMAHA KX580 SE /Natural Sound Cassette Deck
CELESTION DITTON 44s
I thought a Blu-ray player to handle both DVDs & CDs, (but I suspect I might get slated for that :), so I'm open to any suggestions for a dedicated CD player too). I would also like to be able to use my Macbook and old minidisc player too, so am I going to need a DAC also?
The remaining £150 or so in the budget will go to a new stylus for the Thorens, 2 new tweeters for the Dittons and cabling etc.
I’m pretty out of touch with the audio world now and hoped I could get your thoughts and suggestions.
Many thanks to everyone in advance.
i have a tis and amptastic although not got round to mating them yet. been using the mini1 out of the box. its a nice unit and have been told they go well. itll give you 3 inputs this way. you will still need a phono pre though for the tt. have also heard the mini1 sounds awsome with a valve pre so i might try this combo too as i have 1 also at moment. you might pick up a tis or equiv second hand and save a few bob ..the mini1s are pretty hard to come by and sell out as fast as they come in.
walpurgis
15-01-2015, 16:27
The remaining £150 or so in the budget will go to a new stylus for the Thorens, 2 new tweeters for the Dittons and cabling etc.
I’m pretty out of touch with the audio world now and hoped I could get your thoughts and suggestions.
Many thanks to everyone in advance.
If you want original Celestion HF2000 tweeters for the Ditton 44s, I'm afraid that will use up your £150 or more. The tweeters are getting sought after and pricey lately. There are alternative tweeters around at less cost. I believe somebody did a conversion to alternative tweeters on this forum not long ago (can't remember who).
The TD 280 has a lowish mass arm, so you'll need to be looking at reasonably compliant MM (moving magnet) cartridges.
Mini T amp into Ditton 44's for dub and reggae ? Got my doubts about that. The Celestions are not very efficient I think you'll be clipping the amp way too easily.
good point martin ..think they are 87db so may cause a problem although im using mine into q acoustics 2010 at moment and theyre 86db and seem ok although you have to turn the amp up a fair bit so without doubt not ideal and i wont be keeping them on this amp forever.
walpurgis
15-01-2015, 17:11
Mini T amp into Ditton 44's for dub and reggae ? Got my doubts about that. The Celestions are not very efficient I think you'll be clipping the amp way too easily.
Yes, that crossed my mind too Martin.
I reckon keeping an eye open for a Denon PMA-350 SE might be a good idea. Plenty of punch and very decent sound for under £100.
Mini T amp into Ditton 44's for dub and reggae ? Got my doubts about that. The Celestions are not very efficient I think you'll be clipping the amp way too easily.
As much as I enjoy the mini 1 I'm inclined to agree. More efficient speakers are needed to get the best from it,
DarrenHW
15-01-2015, 18:17
If you want original Celestion HF2000 tweeters for the Ditton 44s, I'm afraid that will use up your £150 or more. The tweeters are getting sought after and pricey lately. There are alternative tweeters around at less cost. I believe somebody did a conversion to alternative tweeters on this forum not long ago (can't remember who).
Ken's replaced his HF2000's with Seas 19TFF http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31916-Renovation-of-Celestion-66-Studio-Monitors&highlight=celestion, also see here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/152995-crossover-nightmare.html, you'll also have to install new capacitors but still considerably cheaper than s/h HF2000's.
Thanks Grant. Yes, the Amptastic Mini-1 is out of stock as you said. I’ve asked them to reserve me one, no response on that as yet. I didn’t realise I’d need a separate phono stage, would prefer a preamp (or amp) with the ability to take phono as well, any suggestions? Amps with phono inputs used to be common it seems, now like hens’ teeth…. :(
Thanks Walpurgis for the swift reply. Re. the Ditton tweeters, Falcon Audio do a replacement, the SEAS 19TFF1 H0737, just under £40.00 a pair, free shipping, so that works. The Thorens currently has an Ortofon OM 10 stylus which needs replacing, I am tempted to upgrade to an OM 20, but not sure I want to spend £150 on a stylus! Thinking about it though as I have read there is a significant difference…..
Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
Mini T amp into Ditton 44's for dub and reggae ? Got my doubts about that. The Celestions are not very efficient I think you'll be clipping the amp way too easily.
Yes, that crossed my mind too Martin.
I reckon keeping an eye open for a Denon PMA-350 SE might be a good idea. Plenty of punch and very decent sound for under £100.
Thanks Macca and Geoff for the feedback. I will investigate that Denon. The other way is the Mini T with some other speakers, any ideas on that?
"Ken's replaced his HF2000's with Seas 19TFF http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...ight=celestion, also see here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...nightmare.html, you'll also have to install new capacitors but still considerably cheaper than s/h HF2000's."
Hi Darren, sorry, I didn't see your reply re. the SEAS tweeters before I posted mine, that's exactly what I was about to order. Thanks for the response.
walpurgis
15-01-2015, 18:53
I'm not that keen on the OM Ortofons personally. With your budget I reckon I might be looking at Stanton and Grado, but there are many other options. Such as this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Denon-DL-110-moving-coil-cartridge-In-the-UK-for-next-day-delivery-/261724569113?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item3ceffffe19
It will work with your existing setup. It's a high output moving coil and works into an MM input (and it sounds excellent).
"Ken's replaced his HF2000's with Seas 19TFF http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...ight=celestion, also see here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...nightmare.html, you'll also have to install new capacitors but still considerably cheaper than s/h HF2000's."
Ah. I just read the link about caps nightmare. That's a bridge too far for me. Looks like the Dittons are heading for ebay for spares or repair :( Oh well, they only cost me a fiver in a charity shop :) And so to the next unexpected expense - new speakers.... I had a sneaking suspicion those Dittons weren't going to make it easy for me.....
"I'm not that keen on the OM Ortofons personally. With your budget I reckon I might be looking at Stanton and Grado, but there are many other options. Such as this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Denon-DL-1...item3ceffffe19
It will work with your existing setup. It's a high output moving coil and works into an MM input (and it sounds excellent)."
Thanks Geoff, will look into those as well. Although with new speakers also now looming on the horizon, not sure I will have the budget for it. I'm wondering if I can't actually get a better modern turntable than the Thorens with a decent cartridge for a little bit more? Any thoughts?
Thanks Grant. Yes, the Amptastic Mini-1 is out of stock as you said. I’ve asked them to reserve me one, no response on that as yet. I didn’t realise I’d need a separate phono stage, would prefer a preamp (or amp) with the ability to take phono as well, any suggestions? Amps with phono inputs used to be common it seems, now like hens’ teeth…. :(
The way this is escalating you may be better picking up a nice Jap integrated with onboard phono stage. There are not as many pre's with a phono stage that dont cost a fair bit more than you planned. If you do buy an independent phono stage then the Schiit mani at about £120 is all man.
As much as I enjoy the mini 1 I'm inclined to agree. More efficient speakers are needed to get the best from it,
Thanks Rich. This is all helpful to me and exactly why I came to this forum.
DarrenHW
15-01-2015, 20:01
Ah. I just read the link about caps nightmare. That's a bridge too far for me. Looks like the Dittons are heading for ebay for spares or repair :( Oh well, they only cost me a fiver in a charity shop :) And so to the next unexpected expense - new speakers.... I had a sneaking suspicion those Dittons weren't going to make it easy for me.....
It's really not that difficult, the crossover's point to point using solder tags so very easy to work on if you have a soldering iron. If you're really set on selling them drop me a PM with a couple of photos.
MikeMusic
16-01-2015, 10:15
Cheap upgrade if you don't already have it......
Unswitched socket for each bit of kit or a *good* mains block. There are trade members of AoS who have them available.
The way this is escalating you may be better picking up a nice Jap integrated with onboard phono stage. There are not as many pre's with a phono stage that dont cost a fair bit more than you planned. If you do buy an independent phono stage then the Schiit mani at about £120 is all man.
Very sensible suggestion. Denon PMA355UK was the very best in class of it's day (betters the PMA350) and you can pick up a good one for sub £100 with quite a decent phono stage too (I know, I picked up a mint example recently for £60). It's better made, uses a better power supply and better quality internals than just about any budget amp made today. The bonus is that it also has a remote control facility. It has more than enough power for the Celestions too.
"It's really not that difficult, the crossover's point to point using solder tags so very easy to work on if you have a soldering iron. If you're really set on selling them drop me a PM with a couple of photos."
OK, thanks Darren - well maybe I'll have a look at doing that, but that's a project that could take a while :).....in the meantime I need some speakers, so...maybe the Tannoy Revolution DC6T at £299? Or even the Tannoy Mercury V4s at £199? I have also considered the Ruark MR1s which are active at £299. As per Grant's suggestion, I am watching a Denon PMA-355 on ebay (£40 at the moment) and a Denon PMA-860 (£30). I take the point that a T-amp may not deliver the bottom end I need for dub especially.
The reason I like the idea of a T-amp is because 10 years ago I had a Sonic Impact T-amp driving some +90db speakers (can't for the life of me remember what they were now) and it sounded fantastic. If I remember correctly, I got around the low volume issue by boosting the volume with a little Chinese pre-amp; it always seemed loud enough to me. Also the components were small and unobtrusive which I liked. I didn't really want to go back to the big chunky box era, but if that's what it takes to get the best sound for the cash then so be it. I know I'm not going to get audiophile sound for £500/600, I just want the best possible sound for that amount. Once again thanks guys for all the advice, keep it coming!
Cheap upgrade if you don't already have it......
Unswitched socket for each bit of kit or a *good* mains block. There are trade members of AoS who have them available.
Thanks Mike. I'm not sure what exactly makes a good mains block?
Very sensible suggestion. Denon PMA355UK was the very best in class of it's day (betters the PMA350) and you can pick up a good one for sub £100 with quite a decent phono stage too (I know, I picked up a mint example recently for £60). It's better made, uses a better power supply and better quality internals than just about any budget amp made today. The bonus is that it also has a remote control facility. It has more than enough power for the Celestions too.
Thanks Paul. Got my eye on this one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271741277607?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[Iif that's what it takes to get the best sound for the cash then so be it. I know I'm not going to get audiophile sound for £500/600, I just want the best possible sound for that amount. !
£600 budget in this day and age you can certainly get audiophile sound, from digital anyway. This is a golden age for the enthusiast on a budget :)
re speakers I see you are looking at modern WAF towers - they are okay for what they are but they are likely to be disappointing compared to your Celestion 44s, harder to position well, too. But if you don't want to tackle the tweeter replacement yourself, which I understand, they will have to go. Before you go down Richer Sounds, though, see what vintage speakers are for sale in your area, you might drop on a bargain.
Thanks Mike. I'm not sure what exactly makes a good mains block?
No need to respond to that, I've just done the requisite Googling. The problem with this of course is that no matter how good a mains block is, it's still going to be jacked into a wall socket in my squalid medieval hovel, the quality of which is going to be average at best.
walpurgis
16-01-2015, 17:36
Thanks Mike. I'm not sure what exactly makes a good mains block?
I've never felt the need for one.
£600 budget in this day and age you can certainly get audiophile sound, from digital anyway. This is a golden age for the enthusiast on a budget :)
re speakers I see you are looking at modern WAF towers - they are okay for what they are but they are likely to be disappointing compared to your Celestion 44s, harder to position well, too. But if you don't want to tackle the tweeter replacement yourself, which I understand, they will have to go. Before you go down Richer Sounds, though, see what vintage speakers are for sale in your area, you might drop on a bargain.
Thanks Martin. It's not the tweeter replacement that bothers me, it's all the other stuff (capacitors etc). I might get around to it sometime but I'm too busy to really devote the time to it and I need to find a complete system within the next week or so.
Yeah, busted me on the Richer Sounds :uhho:! But the Tannoys looked like a good deal I thought.....there must be some decent new speakers for £200-£300, surely?
I don't really want to have to deal with secondhand speakers if I can help it (need something new I know for sure is going to be reliable/under warranty), but thanks for the suggestion anyway.
So, will wait till tomorrow to see if I win the bid on the Denon PMA-55 amp and then think about some speakers that will go with that. Cheers!
I've never felt the need for one.
After some reading, it seems the jury is still out on that one. Interesting debate though.
If you have transport, there are a lovely set of missions in bedford going cheap...see ebay past masters section.
If you have transport, there are a lovely set of missions in bedford going cheap...see ebay past masters section.
Hi Grant - is that these 730s?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mission-730-3-way-speakers-vintage-excellent-condition-for-age-/151553810386?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item23494f9fd2
I do have transport as it happens....just a bit wary of secondhand. Will have a quick Google on them. Thanks for the heads-up.
wee tee cee
16-01-2015, 18:32
I bought a pair of tannoy floor standers for £100 F3s I think...from richer sounds they were really good and the house sound may suit your music taste. The t amp route is sound, i have two original mini ts that are keepers BUT have a look at temple audio. The original bantum is a fantastic sounding device that made me sell a naim 5i.
What about a usb bantum with your lap top taking care of digital duties. Mark Grant cables or others can sort all the interconnects.
As mentioned, you really can get a great sound for reasonable money in the digital arena.
Hi Grant - is that these 730s?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mission-730-3-way-speakers-vintage-excellent-condition-for-age-/151553810386?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item23494f9fd2
I do have transport as it happens....just a bit wary of secondhand. Will have a quick Google on them. Thanks for the heads-up.
Yep thats them... very decent speakers those, and with a bit of luck you'll get to hear them first. If I stayed down there I'd sell summat and grab em ;)
Yep thats them... very decent speakers those, and with a bit of luck you'll get to hear them first. If I stayed down there I'd sell summat and grab em ;)
They do look nice. And people are saying good things about them. I have 2 concerns: how long the tweeters are going to last (the apparently notorious Celestion HF2000s which die quickly - like they have in my Dittons) and whether they are actually too big for my room - it's not small (about 16' x 16' x 12' height) but is it too small for these?
How are they going to pair with that Denon PMS-55 if I get it? In fact could they be efficient enough for the Amptastic? (86db) Sorry about all the questions, just trying to get it right. Cheers Grant.
walpurgis
17-01-2015, 11:21
They do look nice. And people are saying good things about them. I have 2 concerns: how long the tweeters are going to last (the apparently notorious Celestion HF2000s which die quickly - like they have in my Dittons) and whether they are actually too big for my room - it's not small (about 16' x 16' x 12' height) but is it too small for these?
Those tweeters have a far higher power handling than the HF2000. They're SEAS units I believe and I've seen them second hand on eBay at reasonable prices, so they should be easy to replace, not that they are likely to pop!
The Missions should be fine in a room that size. Just get them off the floor a bit.
MikeMusic
17-01-2015, 11:23
One that does as little to the leccy as possible
I used a Russ Andrews mains block. Great big solid black metal jobbie, also a Russ Andrews Purifier block.
Nice difference between a cheap £3-4 4 or 6 way adaptor
David has a couple here, assume they are good
http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/search?controller=search&orderby=position&orderway=desc&search_query=mains+block&submit_search=
and
http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=45_59&zenid=v7vgdgpj1u1j1rco3jsedfrm23
I'd go for unswitched sockets on the wall
MikeMusic
17-01-2015, 11:26
No need to respond to that, I've just done the requisite Googling. The problem with this of course is that no matter how good a mains block is, it's still going to be jacked into a wall socket in my squalid medieval hovel, the quality of which is going to be average at best.
Just seen this after I answered !
Get unswitched sockets in and find the earth if you can and make sure it's good and solid.
Made a big difference in our 50s built house, rewired in the 70s
walpurgis
17-01-2015, 11:41
To be honest, Kevin is on a limited budget and wants to get a system together. He may be best concentrating just on that, rather than getting involved in mains supplies at the moment. Once the system is up and running, in whatever form that turns out to be. Perhaps looking at the quality of the mains power afterwards might be sensible.
as for mains i have pretty dirty mains. old house and lots of industry very close plus the new electric railway:doh: i got 2 belkin units .. pureav pf40 units. there is one for sale currently in classicieds i think if you need to see it or just google it. my mains is now great and it made a huge difference to me. they are handy for switching stuff on and off in order too with 1 switch
To be honest, Kevin is on a limited budget and wants to get a system together. He may be best concentrating just on that, rather than getting involved in mains supplies at the moment. Once the system is up and running, in whatever form that turns out to be. Perhaps looking at the quality of the mains power afterwards might be sensible.
Agreed. Although finding £50 for a decent mains block is worth it. Just don't plug the amp into it.
Thanks for all the info on mains power guys. It wasn't something I'd really considered, but, as Geoff says, once I've got the musical elements sorted out, I'll come back to the mains issue.
Meanwhile, I now have to decide whether I want to bid on that Denon PMA-55 (already up to £62.00 and auction finishes in about 2 hours) or to wait on something else. Have to admit I do keep looking at those Mission 730s and wondering whether they would be good with the Mini-T.....off to have a look at some other speakers so as to confuse myself further. Cheers
Kevin
MikeMusic
18-01-2015, 16:46
I had a good system where I used to live
When I moved to a new house it sounded awful.
Couple of cheap 4 ways into a switched socket and a very poor earth.
Should have known better.
Sparky in to sort out other problems. Did that while he was here.
Massive difference
My system sounded good again
I had a good system where I used to live
When I moved to a new house it sounded awful.
Couple of cheap 4 ways into a switched socket and a very poor earth.
Should have known better.
Sparky in to sort out other problems. Did that while he was here.
Massive difference
My system sounded good again
Apart from an un switched socket what else would you recommend doing to the mains. I have heard a separate ring main would be a good idea?
MikeMusic
19-01-2015, 08:50
Better is a dedicated spur to the hifi - I found out after I had a dedicated ring put in !
Check the earth is good
OK. After much deliberation I have arranged 2 auditions tomorrow:The first one is at Richer Sounds:
Denon DCD-720 CD player (£150)
DENON PMA720AE amp (£170)
DALI ZENSOR 3 speakers (£300)
Q ACOUSTICS 2020i (£150)
The second one’s at Superfi:
MARANTZ CD5005 CD player (£170)
DENON PMA720AE (£170)
DALI ZENSOR 3 speakers (£300)
MONITOR AUDIO BRONZE BX2 (£250)
So if anyone here has any experience of any of the above kit or opinions about how they match, all comments welcome as usual. My reasoning in going with new kit is that I want at least a one year warranty. I’m aware that I could potentially get better overall quality by buying secondhand; I could also end up with a bunch of stuff that craps out on me and will cost an arm and a leg to fix (no such thing as a cheap hi-fi repair guy any more!) I’ll report back on what I think soon. Hopefully this will be of some benefit to others looking for a decent budget system.
Whatever I end up with, I still have to sort out the stylus/ cartridge for my Thorens, so that’ll be my next mission. Thanks for all your input guys.
By the way, thank you for the suggestions regarding power supply, but I live in rented accommodation so I won't be commissioning any mains alterations I'm afraid. It's out of my budget anyway. Again, future food for thought though, thanks.
i am running a set of qa 2020i's...i got the dedicated stands too..they are superb speakers and improve the more watts you put in.
walpurgis
20-01-2015, 15:38
I've never heard anything by Q Acoustics Grant. They have consistently good product reviews though.
i am running a set of qa 2020i's...i got the dedicated stands too..they are superb speakers and improve the more watts you put in.
Thanks Grant. They do have very good reviews. And they are half the price of the others :eyebrows:
OK. I used 3 tunes to demo the above setups: A Case Of You by Joni Mitchell/ Teen Spirit by Nirvana/ Unfinished Sympathy by Massive Attack.
From those two demos, my thoughts were:
The Q Acoustics 2020i's were, to my ears, more musical overall and easily rivalled the punch of the Dali Zensor 3's (a little sibilant in the upper mids I thought), at half the price. I also demoed a pair of Focal Chorus 705s, also £299, which, although quite smooth and warm, noticeably lacked both the presence and the bass definition of the others (particularly noticeably on the Joni track with its huge dynamic range. Too polite for the Nirvana. From the second demo, I came away really liking the character of the Monitor Audio Bronze BX2's whose midrange and overall sound I preferred to the Q Acoustics (but only just). They were £225. For the money (£150), I doubt I'll hear a better pair of speakers than those Q Acoustics, they are really impressive at that price.
The Denon PMA720 seemed to tick all the right boxes at a good price. The second setup CD was a Marantz 6005 (£250), marginally better clarity than the Denon DCD520 (£120) I thought. What a fugly piece of kit it is though, Marantz really specializes in that :)
The Denon amp and CDP will do fine. Still dithering between the 2020i's and the BX2's. Now thinking about a cart/ stylus for the Thorens TD280 and have read good stuff about the Denon D110 that Geoff has suggested, will also look at the Stantons and Grado's.
Interesting stuff, thanks for keeping us all updated.
jollyfix
22-01-2015, 16:43
Interesting stuff, thanks for keeping us all updated.
+ 1 :thumbsup:
Will update more in a couple of days when all the bits have arrived from their various places.......waiting on speakers and a TT belt :)
Ronksley
29-01-2015, 09:14
The Denon PMA720 seemed to tick all the right boxes at a good price. The second setup CD was a Marantz 6005 (£250), marginally better clarity than the Denon DCD520 (£120) I thought. What a fugly piece of kit it is though, Marantz really specializes in that :)
I assume you mean the Maranantz is ugly looking I was trying to work out what fugly might mean sound wise
Very interesting stuff as I have had a Maranantz CD52 which I have been happy with for years Also picked up a Denon DCD700Ae for £50 a year or so ago and really pleased with that unfortunately they are in different citys in very different set ups so cant really compare and the Maranatz is old.
I will be looking to get as good a system as I can sometime in the future hopefully I have enough kit to keep me going for a bit so can wait till I can invest in some really good stuff but I will deffinately be looking and of course listening to Maranatz and Denon. i listen to classical music and really feel the Denon doesnt struggle when there is a lot going on
You said you thought the Maranatz had better clarity than the Denon would be interested to know if there is anything else you thought was different
I assume you mean the Maranantz is ugly looking I was trying to work out what fugly might mean sound wise
Very interesting stuff as I have had a Maranantz CD52 which I have been happy with for years Also picked up a Denon DCD700Ae for £50 a year or so ago and really pleased with that unfortunately they are in different citys in very different set ups so cant really compare and the Maranatz is old.
I will be looking to get as good a system as I can sometime in the future hopefully I have enough kit to keep me going for a bit so can wait till I can invest in some really good stuff but I will deffinately be looking and of course listening to Maranatz and Denon. i listen to classical music and really feel the Denon doesnt struggle when there is a lot going on
You said you thought the Maranatz had better clarity than the Denon would be interested to know if there is anything else you thought was different
Yes, I was referring to the appearance of the Marantz kit, not the actual sound, I know they are quite well thought of by many in that respect. I also had a Marantz CD player which was a very good player at the time. It's hard to compare CD players at this price (£100 - £200), they are all fairly similar I think. Also I auditioned the different CD players in different listening environments (one room was larger and had a higher ceiling). I would guess that individual characteristics of CD players become more noticeable at £300 and upwards. As I will mostly be playing vinyl, I'm not too bothered about paying more than £150 for a CD player, I have a large CD collection but not a big fan of digital sound. If you're interested in 'really good stuff' as you say, there are much more knowledgeable members than me on this forum. (I love the look of that Roksan kit though). Happy hunting.
Went with Geoff's suggestion and for my Thorens TD280MKIV I bought the Denon DL-110 cartridge after reading the glowing reviews all over the net. Special mention to the super-helpful Richard at Harrow Audio (http://www.harrowaudiohifi.co.uk/) who, as as well as gladly matching Amazon's price, was kind enough to fit it for me on the spot. Great service. I'm going back there tomorrow to get a pair of Monitor Audio BX2's. Ordered a genuine original replacement belt from Thakker in Germany (£26.00). For the benefit of anyone who wants to replace the belt on a TD280 IV, the Thorens part number is Z6800580. This particular belt ONLY fits the TD280 IV, not the other TD 280 models, so take care with non-Thorens belts. Already purchased the Denon PMA-720AE amplifier, so the pieces of the jigsaw are coming together. I've also bought a Behringer UCA222 which for the ridiculously low price of £28.00 will act as both DAC for iTunes from my Mac and incoming audio for music work in Logic Audio. It's cheap but it has very good reviews. Old hat I know, but I still have a soft spot for my old Yamaha KX-580 SE Cassette Deck, still sounding good, plus I keep finding great old secondhand cassettes in good condition. That just leaves something to play CDs on, probably the Denon DCD520, which for lack of better options at under £150, I suppose will do fine for my budget. There seems to be a lack of choice with new CD players at under £150, anyone out there got any recommendations? The CD player is one component where I would be tempted to go secondhand, despite the fear of laser death; a more recent model that hasn't been thrashed. Again, I would welcome any suggestions.
OK, the Monitor Audio Bronze BX2s have arrived (again decided to buy from Richard at Harrow Audio, good price). Assembled the TT, amp and speakers, plugged in, switched on and….uh-oh. No sound on left channel. Gently jiggling the RCA cable from the TT at the amp end and the sound is cutting in and out. Time to either get a new TT, which I don’t want to do, or replace the RCA cables on the Thorens. I have looked at a ton of stuff online about how to do this but would like some advice from this forum. On the Thorens TD280 is this so difficult or a simple soldering job? I would like to replace the entire length of cable, not just the RCA jacks. Advice on this much appreciated.
Are you sure it is the cable, and not the RCA socket on the amp? Have you tried a different input?
If it is the cable, it may just be a loose connection which should be easy to fix.
Are you sure it is the cable, and not the RCA socket on the amp? Have you tried a different input?
If it is the cable, it may just be a loose connection which should be easy to fix.
The amp is a brand new Denon straight out of the box. Tried it with the previous amp which it always worked fine with, same result. Also notice that when I touch the top of the new cartridge a horrible low hum results. I think I will take it back to the shop where the cartridge was installed just to make 100% sure it's not something to do with the cartridge installation. In the meantime, anyone have any suggestions for best new cable/RCAs I could use if I have to re-solder it?
Or maybe I should just get a new TT and have done with it, getting really tired of not being able to play vinyl now :( Thanks for your reply.
check the earth connection ....hum from cart is normally associated with lack of earth or poor earth connection ..
cutting in and out does sound like a bad joint or cable break ....undo the phono [rca] plugs and see if you can see any damage .....sounds like you can solder ...its a simple repair if you can
check the earth connection ....hum from cart is normally associated with lack of earth or poor earth connection ..
cutting in and out does sound like a bad joint or cable break ....undo the phono [rca] plugs and see if you can see any damage .....sounds like you can solder ...its a simple repair if you can
Thanks Pete. Can't undo the RCAs as they are the moulded kind. I have to say they look pretty crappy and it would probably be an upgrade to just replace both RCAs and the earth wire. I suppose I should re-post this under a new topic in Analogue Art.
Meanwhile, back on the topic of the budget system.......Despite having no TT or CD player, I have rigged up the Denon PMA-720AE with the Monitor Audio BX2s and auditioned them with the only thing I have to hand..... a 10-year old Samsung DVD player which no longer plays DVDs but manages to play CDs :)
Considering the quality of the source machine, the amp & speaker combination sounded excellent to my ears - the BX2s handled the whole of Both Sides Now by Joni Mitchell very well, although I detected that the transition between the upper mids and the treble on certain vocal passages wasn't as smooth as it could be. Same was true (but less so) of the transition between the low end and the midrange. All in all though, the Denon and the BX2s seem to partner very well. The handling of the low D of the bass guitar on Incognito's Don't You Worry 'Bout A Thing was very impressive, reproducing all the weight with zero distortion. My flat mate (who has experience as a studio engineer/ producer) came in the door near the fade of that and said "Let's hear something with some bottom end." I cranked up Unfinished Sympathy by Massive Attack, the low end of which (nearly literally) blew us both away. These are excellent speakers, lovely imaging and depth with great definition. If they sound this good with a cheapo DVD player I can only imagine what results a decent CD deck will produce. I will post some more when I scratch together some more cash for a CD player or get the TT up and running, whichever happens first. For now, I think these speakers are an absolute bargain at £225.
andrasszamek
05-02-2015, 11:28
hi there, im a bit late to the party. reg. CDP i have heard the first generation playstation is really good. and dirt cheap. (this is what Art Dudley thinks about it: http://www.stereophile.com/cdplayers/708play/index.html).
hi there, im a bit late to the party. reg. CDP i have heard the first generation playstation is really good. and dirt cheap. (this is what Art Dudley thinks about it: http://www.stereophile.com/cdplayers/708play/index.html).
Thanks Andras, I thought that was a joke at first. Great link. PS1 is almost certainly an improvement on what I'm using :) (10-year old Samsung HD870 DVD player).
andrasszamek
08-02-2015, 09:58
its ridiculous i know. :) but for 10 bucks you dont have much to loose.
its ridiculous i know. :) but for 10 bucks you dont have much to loose.
True. I have since read an awful lot of praise for the PS1 online. Seems like the hype might be true. Might have a little trawl round the 'bay.....thanks for the tip.
Quick update: I am about to collect my 2 turntables which have just been repaired. When I return this evening I will be able to test TTs, amp and speakers. I also have a new Behringer UCA222 DAC which I will be testing with audio files from a Macbook Pro (iTunes mp3 & FLAC files). More later.
So, to resurrect my somewhat stilted progress on this thread, my £500 budget system is now complete. It looks (and sounds) like this:
Turntable: Dual CS-505/1 (£40.00 from Charity Shop about 3 months ago. Had an Ortofon F/FF Cartridge already fitted. New belt, fixed 'sticky' motor microswitch: £45.00. Total cost: £95.00)
Amp: Denon PMA-720AE (£170.00)
Speakers: Monitor Audio Bronze BX2 (£225.00)
Some thoughts on sourcing the components:
1) Turntable. I've seen a Pro-ject Debut carbon new for £199. I doubt you'd do much better than this for £200. Or do what I did and look for a vintage entry-level turntable with a decent cartridge already fitted. As I mentioned, in my case this was a Dual 505/Ortofon f/ff, after a service fully working for £95.
2) Amp. I opted for a new Denon PMA-720AE at £170, but you could get a less powerful amp, Denon or Cambridge Audio etc, for about £120 - £150 if you shop around, especially if you don't want the phono input. Or, the secondhand route, there are many decent Denons and NADs on the 'bay for around £100, maybe less if you get lucky.
3) Speakers. Unlike the previous 2 components, it seems there are an awful lot of (new) decent speakers in the £100 - £250 price range. I thought the Q Acoustics 2020i's were outstanding for £150, at around the £100 mark several flavours of Wharfedale, like the 121's are available, and although I haven't tried them personally, they have had excellent reviews and have also been recommended to me by an audio retailer I respect.
4) CD players. I would have thought that it would be easy in today's market to find a new quality CD player for around £100. It isn't. There are a couple of options around this mark, perhaps the Teac CDP260 if you can find one or the Denon DCD520 (around £120). Possibly better to try for a secondhand one where, with a bit of patience, £100 should get you something much better (make sure it is a relatively recent model though, 2-3 years old). And, as mentioned in this thread, the original PS1 (SCHP 001/2) has a reputation as a fantastic CD player…the tricky part is finding that model, but if you do, it shouldn't cost you more than £20.00 with postage.
As always, do the homework online and find out what people are saying are the best value buys, be it new or secondhand. Read the reviews and Google every bit of kit that looks like a bargain (quite a few won't be).
What about that £10 left over? Incredibly, I found a pair of sturdy 90cm tall speaker stands secondhand for a tenner which are perfect for my room! (Filled them with kiln-dried sand) :)
Although I had to work quite hard to source a basic turntable-based system for under £500, I'm very pleased with the results. The Dual in particular is a delight, with a clear, detailed sound which seems to partner very well with the other components (haven't even changed the stylus it came with!) To squeeze a CD player into that budget I could have saved £75 on the speakers and got a pair of Q Acoustics 2020i's for £150, and spent the £75 on a secondhand CD player. Or gone secondhand on the amp and speakers too. It all depends how long you want to wait for the right pieces to turn up and how you feel about buying secondhand, considering the things that could fail (speaker drivers, CD lasers etc). But with patience and research £500 can get you a very respectable sounding system.
As a footnote, I have found that a £25 Behringer UCA222 DAC, playing lossless audio files (FLAC etc) from my MacBook Pro is sounding considerably better than my previous CD player. So, if you already have a computer and you want to bypass the CD route, or rip your CD collection, this is a very good option.
Hope this has helped anyone trying to get a nice sound on a tight budget.
Denon 2900 is an excellent cd player. It will play hi res files burnt to dvd too. And dvd audio and sacd's in two channel or 5.1 surround if you like.
Battleship build.
The sound can be upgraded from the excellent to stellar with a mains regeneration unit, btw I only found out by accident when a neighbour lent me an ex radio transmitter protection unit. Wow....
Kk of Hi Fi News still gives this unit mentions as an excellent universal player. Wouldn't be surprised if he still uses one.
2900's come in for as little as £40 on the bay. Everyone just thinks they're dvd players.
andrasszamek
12-02-2015, 13:30
Sounds like a nice little budget system. Lot of music and fun for not a lot of money. Neither denon nor MA are my cup of tea, but to each its own :) congrats!
Denon 2900 is an excellent cd player. It will play hi res files burnt to dvd too. And dvd audio and sacd's in two channel or 5.1 surround if you like.
Battleship build.
The sound can be upgraded from the excellent to stellar with a mains regeneration unit, btw I only found out by accident when a neighbour lent me an ex radio transmitter protection unit. Wow....
Kk of Hi Fi News still gives this unit mentions as an excellent universal player. Wouldn't be surprised if he still uses one.
2900's come in for as little as £40 on the bay. Everyone just thinks they're dvd players.
Thanks Nial. Added to the list of interesting items worth investigating.
ive got one...its my second actually and theyre great players and lasers are still available
Sounds like a nice little budget system. Lot of music and fun for not a lot of money. Neither denon nor MA are my cup of tea, but to each its own :) congrats!
Cheers Andras. BTW, after your PS1 tip, I picked one up for £5.00 :)
andrasszamek
15-02-2015, 17:35
Less then a pack of smokes :) how does it sound?
Less then a pack of smokes :) how does it sound?
It hasn't arrived yet...will let you know.
Sorry about that....went walkabout for a few weeks :)
So, the PS1 arrived. And yes, it sounded very good indeed. Sadly though, after about 2 weeks it stopped reading CDs. Cleaning the laser didn't fix the problem, so... I bought another one. This one was even cheaper (about £3.50). Guy won't post it though for some reason, so it's sitting out in Hertfordshire waiting for me to collect. Hoping this one will last a bit longer. In the meantime I'm going to track down a (much easier to find) PSone - the later models without the RCA outs - and swap the laser into my defective PS1.
Oh what fun. Have to say, they really live up to the hype for me, so once again Andras, thanks for switching me on to that.
andrasszamek
29-03-2015, 19:04
awesome, i hope the second one will work reliably. the price is certainly reasonable :)
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