Sorbothane / Wooden Cone Feet

[Ninanina]

Anyone know if any of these 'feet' improve things..

I met someone recently who swears by little wooden turned cone feet for support under pretty much all their equipment... I don't see it myself.. he even used them under his Dac and said it improves it... I don't understand it as a Dac has no moving parts.. can anyone throw any light on this ?

Thanks ;)

[struth]

Vibrations affect all equipment/ some more than others. I have used wooden cones and sorbothane feet. I prefer the latter. There are some good ones on the bay for reasonable money that do a great job and are as good , if not maybe as pretty as the ones at silly money.

[Ninanina]

Vibrations affect all equipment/ some more than others. I have used wooden cones and sorbothane feet. I prefer the latter. There are some good ones on the bay for reasonable money that do a great job and are as good , if not maybe as pretty as the ones at silly money.

Thanks Grant... do you use Sorbothane under everything ? what sort of size should I use?

[walpurgis]

can anyone throw any light on this ?


They do seem to have a place in some Hi-Fi situations. They can seem to be beneficial under CD players for some reason, but it's a very subjective thing. I have used alloy cones between speakers and stands to what seemed a useful effect. I'm with Grant on the Sorbothane, it's good under many items.

For speakers, it's hard to be sure what may be right. There's quite a lot of physical energy coming from and going through a speaker. My inclination would be to suggest they should be rigidly stood or mounted, possibly even weighted down.

[The Barbarian]

i used to use oak cones under everything..i still have them all just incase :)

[struth]

Thanks Grant... do you use Sorbothane under everything ? what sort of size should I use?

These (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16-X-SORBOTHANE-40-MM-ISOLATION-HEMISPHERE-FEET-FOR-SPEAKER-HI-FI-TURNTABLE-/331396687805?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d28c827bd) are the kind of thing I use. You get different sizes dependant on weight etc. I have found them useful on everything I have tried them on including speakers. Example. in the studio I have the speakers on the same surface as everything. with the 30 mil pads no vibraton is transferred. They also work really well under a TT as extra isolation and seem to remove extraneous electro interference for some reason. They aint dear and are worth a shot.

[Ninanina]

Thanks so much for the link... I might give them a go... I guess it can only help... I have no TT but under the cd transport might be ok.. and if I feel flushed I'll try them under the amp and Dac as well... ;)

[walpurgis]

I have Sorbothane pads under my pre-amp and DAC. Nowhere else. The Dac has a slightly 'buzzy' transformer until it warms up and the pads definitely help keep it quiet. The pre-amp is a TVC unit and I suspect may benefit from isolation.

[Ninanina]

My Oto has a very slight transformer 'buzz', nothing serious, but I guess it might benefit from some Sorbothane's.. the Dac is pretty much silent.. and I guess as the cd has moving parts it might benefit from some as well.. I'll order some and try them out.. thanks all... ;)

[Andrei]

he even used them under his Dac and said it improves it... I don't understand it as a Dac has no moving parts.. can anyone throw any light on this ?
Thanks ;)
Thats the way I look at it too, but it seems to be beneficial. I would not put any sorbothane under the speakers though.

[struth]

Anything that reduces the transmission of vibrations etc has to be good. even speakers.

[Ninanina]

Thats the way I look at it too, but it seems to be beneficial. I would not put any sorbothane under the speakers though.

Thanks Andrei...

I definitely won't be putting them under the speakers... On another thread I've mentioned that I've had some new slanted riser stands made for the Heresy's and the only thing I will put under them is some thin'ish Neoprene around the perimeter of the stands which will support the speakers

[walpurgis]

the only thing I will put under them is some thin'ish Neoprene around the perimeter of the stands...

Use craft felt sheet. It'll protect the speakers without producing an obvious compliance (flexible interface).

[Ninanina]

Use craft felt sheet. It'll protect the speakers without producing an obvious compliance (flexible interface).

Thanks Geoff for the tip... I will look that up...

This sort of thing??

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Squares-Plain-Acrylic-Craft-Fabric/dp/B008A5M3MU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421282021&sr=8-1&keywords=craft+felt+black

[doodoos]

When I've used sorbothane under equipment the sound becomes a bit valvey / soggy especially in the lower frequencies although there is an increased perception of depth. If you like a warm sound then this is a good bet. A good alternative is Something Solid Dissapating Feet which I have used to good effect. http://www.decoaudio.com/deco_audio_feet.html

[Ammonite Audio]

Bev

You need to try both hard and soft supports for yourself, since the result is significantly dependent on how equipment is built, but more significantly on the existing support structure that the equipment sits on. Also, consider that the foot/cone needs to deal with vibration energy coming up through the support structure, as well as originating within the equipment. Isolate equipment from the support shelf and you block transmission of energy trying to find a path out of the equipment.

So, it's not a straightforward matter at all, and there is no substitute for your own experimentation which, fortunately, need not involve significant expense! My own preference is pretty much always for hard coupling over sorbothane, which (for me) tends to soggify the music.

Regarding speakers, it is worth experimenting with compliant mounting options, particularly when the speakers are relatively squat and stable (like yours). This goes against the 'spikes into everything' mantra of the last 30 years, but Max Townshend has proved that relatively wobbly isolation systems can work wonders for speakers. All very system and situation dependent, of course, but definitely worth experimenting with.

[MikeMusic]

Cheap wooden cones are crazy VFM, so cheap and they work

I find RDC cones the best VFM
If they work you can upgrade to bases

[walpurgis]

Thanks Geoff for the tip... I will look that up...

This sort of thing??

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Squares-Plain-Acrylic-Craft-Fabric/dp/B008A5M3MU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421282021&sr=8-1&keywords=craft+felt+black


Yup. Plenty on eBay and in Pound Shops too.

[Spectral Morn]

I second RDC cones as being very much worth a try.



Regards Neil

[cyclopse]

Electronic components are microphonic. The circuits are excited by both air born vibration from the music and internally from transformer vibration.

If you use Sorbothane you are insulating the component from its base. There is no where for this vibration to go so the components get a good shake. You can hear the effect where sorbothane slows the system pace and rhythm and muddies the bass. Wooden cones transfer the energy as quickly as possible into the platform beneath. You can also take it a stage further where the case can be damped by placing a HRS damping plate on top.

Regards

Cyclopse

[Andrei]

Electronic components are microphonic. The circuits are excited by both air born vibration from the music and internally from transformer vibration.

If you use Sorbothane you are insulating the component from its base. There is no where for this vibration to go so the components get a good shake. You can hear the effect where sorbothane slows the system pace and rhythm and muddies the bass. Wooden cones transfer the energy as quickly as possible into the platform beneath. You can also take it a stage further where the case can be damped by placing a HRS damping plate on top.

Regards

Cyclopse

Doesn't it go into the Sorbothane?

[walpurgis]

Doesn't it go into the Sorbothane?

Yes. Sorbothane has very high inherent damping. Vibration energy is dissipated within it.

[The Barbarian]

^ your tonearm counterbalance weight is full of it

[MCRU]

Bev
I will send you a set of oak cone feet and a set of sorbothane feet

FOR FREE!

Let us know what you think.

[struth]

Bev
I will send you a set of oak cone feet and a set of sorbothane feet

FOR FREE!

Let us know what you think.

Nice one:)

[Ninanina]

Bev
I will send you a set of oak cone feet and a set of sorbothane feet

FOR FREE!

Let us know what you think.

David thank you so much, I will try them out and let you know how I get on... Fantastic service, as usual ! ;)

[Andrei]

David thank you so much, I will try them out and let you know how I get on... Fantastic service, as usual ! ;)
If it doesn't work out - ask for your money back.

[Ninanina]

If it doesn't work out - ask for your money back.

:rfl::rfl:

[Gazjam]

Rdc cones work a treat, had a few sets on my equipment up till recently.

This stuff is even better...something a bit different.
Proven Industrial vibration control product...handy that the MD is a hifi nut. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtmnr62wDsw
http://www.sounddampedsteel.com/hifi.html

[MikeMusic]

Ask Mr MCRU nicely and try out RDC cones as well
I think you will want to keep them

[Jimbo]

David thank you so much, I will try them out and let you know how I get on... Fantastic service, as usual ! ;)

I will be very interested in your findings as I am trying to isolate my pre and power amplifier noisy vibrating torroids.
I am also wondering wether cones or sorbothane will do the best job!:scratch:

[walpurgis]

I will be very interested in your findings as I am trying to isolate my pre and power amplifier noisy vibrating torroids.
I am also wondering wether cones or sorbothane will do the best job!:scratch:

Sorbothane. I've just put some under a noisy DAC and it really quietened things. I also put a small pad of Sorbothane between the casework and the top of the mains transformer.

[Jimbo]

Just had some small sorbathane pads this weekend and using them under the feet of my valve amps.
Very surprised they have actually improved the sound of my system even though they are so small and thin.
I believe conventional thinking was that cones were better for this job.

Maybe I ought to give them a try and then compare but I a very happy with the performance of these sorbathane pads and such a cheap tweek:)

[walpurgis]

Just had some small sorbathane pads this weekend and using them under the feet of my valve amps.
Very surprised they have actually improved the sound of my system

It works. If you try cones you'll find the noise comes back.

[Jimbo]

It works. If you try cones you'll find the noise comes back.

Thanks for the tip Geoff, very impressed!

[tiguan]

I would like to share some of my humble notes during my hifi journey during last 5 years.
Almost all those mechanical tweaks (not electronical things are mentioned) under, above or inside the equipments are working for coupling and damping. The most populer product for coupling is spike. Made from many different materials. With the Spikes damping ability is extremely limited (may be some wooden ones very little effect and some Spikes with ball bearing just for horizontal effects) Spikes couple one thing to another. And coupling works two direction. What I mean is, if there is an equipment sitting on the shelf of the rack system with spikes transfers the Vibration on itself meantime recives back from the shelf. (Coupling connects both ways) İf the rack system is designed to damp vibration itself then it will work, transfer to shelf damped in the rack. Therefore we have to look for the solution not just on the equipment basis also together with rack design. İt was not mentioned as it was not the subject but sand is a very good damping material. Below is one way how shall be used at the rack, which I implemented later then İ made the rack. small sand bags above equipment makes also good effect.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/18/dd24ab8ac87c4ed3c06a8013c43c6bd9.jpg

Sorbothane, maglev, coil spring type foot works very good for damping. Also sand. They turns the vibration energy general into heat.
As for speakers my humble opinion tells me that not to use soft things under. Because speakers drivers and Cabin itself earns their money from vibration. And unneccesary vibration from cabin to drivers need to be coupled to somewhere in this case to floor. İf there is something soft under cabin not visual but shakes obviously front and back as driver membrane push air to front to create vibration, frequency and song finally.
I think unwanted cabin vibration results irregularities at phase coherency and time alignment at the speaker.

[YNWaN]

When I've tried Sorbothane feet I've not been very keen on the effect. I've not tried oak cones though (I have tried a bunch of other hard materials and preferred them to the soft Sorbothane).

[Jimbo]

When I've tried Sorbothane feet I've not been very keen on the effect. I've not tried oak cones though (I have tried a bunch of other hard materials and preferred them to the soft Sorbothane).

Hi Mark, what have you tried sorbothane under? I have an interesting turntable set up consisting of large sorbothane feet with a very dense laminate platform on top. My turntable sits on its own steel/ball bearing cone feet (VPI Scout 1.1) which also sit in aluminium cups. This whole assembly then sits on a wooden table on a concrete carpete floor.

Interestingly there is a mix of extreme materials there but the sum of the whole seem to work. The laminate platform is rather special being extremely dense and similar to slate in structure.

[YNWaN]

Amps and solid-state stuff mostly. My turntable is built into its stand so it's not easy to experiment in that regard.

Replacing the aluminium sleeve of my pre-amp with acrylic made more difference than the feet it sits on.

[The Barbarian]

If you want to try Medium density board with Sorbothane just buy yourself a cheap Mission 'Isoplat' . The Sorbothane feet have ceramic cups bonded to the bottom, i always assumed this was to inconspicuously hiding a flat spot forming with the weight on the plat or at least avoiding this happening.

[YNWaN]

Don't think they are ceramic - plastic.

[The Barbarian]

Nop they are ceramic i have two early Silver hammertone 'Isoplat' with em on. Dunno about the later grey one tho.

[The Barbarian]

btw: these only worked for me with non suspended TT's & CD Players.. The Mission '775' Turntable already had the Sorbotahane/Ceramic cups fitted..

[YNWaN]

Nop they are ceramic

All the ones I came across had plastic cups made from some thermoset plastic - which did look like ceramic. Perhaps early ones were different.

[The Barbarian]

7th Post down

http://forum.moorgateacoustics.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1032

They deffo are you can hear it when you tap them

[Ninanina]

When I get my new 'feet' from David (MCRU) I will let everyone know what I think of them... that may well be next weekend by the time I get a proper listen though...but 'I'll be back'... ;)

[Ninanina]

I've now received all the 'feet' from David (MCRU), thanks David :)

I just need to get round to taking off my original feet from my various bits and pieces to try them out

I'll be back once I've tried them out... ;)

[choirboy]

I've now received all the 'feet' from David (MCRU), thanks David :)

I just need to get round to taking off my original feet from my various bits and pieces to try them out

I'll be back once I've tried them out... ;)

Excellent, looking forward to hearing your thoughts. :)

Might be going down this road myself soon and I'm torn between sorbothane pods, Something Solid Dissipating feet, Myrtle Wood Blocks or possibly even ceramic feet.
Anyone have an experience with these products (experience with them tried against each other would be excellent)?

[Ninanina]

I've now tried one set of feet under the Dac.. the wooden cones..

I don't know if it's the placebo effect but to my ears it seems more detailed sounding now.. I will continue to test them out to make sure I believe what I am hearing, but so far so good... :)

Sorry this test is going to be bit by bit as I don't want to place feet under everything all at once, I'd rather try each unit with new feet separately so I can make sure what changes they are making.. ;)

[Ninanina]

Anyone else used the wooden cones and found the sound more detailed, or is it just my imagination ? ;)

[The Barbarian]

Well i still have them bagged up but everyting in my system at one time was on Oak cones & Torlyte. i though it was all a lot better sounding than the metal racks & rubber feet i had before.

[twickers]

Anyone else used the wooden cones and found the sound more detailed, or is it just my imagination ? ;)

:whistle:....:eyebrows:

[Ninanina]

Well i still have them bagged up but everyting in my system at one time was on Oak cones & Torlyte. i though it was all a lot better sounding than the metal racks & rubber feet i had before.

So it might not be my imagination then.. ;)

[The Barbarian]

No, however the angle Iron brigade my say different

:D

[MikeMusic]

Yup

Part of my "try out all the supports I have" session

I soon worked out the pecking order with
Wooden cones
Pods of various sizes
RDC and Black Ravioli about the same
Stillpoints

all sitting on glass on Mana racks

Some of the differences were jaw dropping

[choirboy]

Yup

Part of my "try out all the supports I have" session

I soon worked out the pecking order with
Wooden cones
Pods of various sizes
RDC and Black Ravioli about the same
Stillpoints

all sitting on glass on Mana racks

Some of the differences were jaw dropping

Is that pecking order from best to worst or worst to best?

[Gazjam]

Can I reiterate my earlier post?
This stuff best I've heard and I've tried a lot.


Rdc cones work a treat, had a few sets on my equipment up till recently.

This stuff is even better...something a bit different.
Proven Industrial vibration control product...handy that the MD is a hifi nut. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtmnr62wDsw
http://www.sounddampedsteel.com/hifi.html

[CageyH]

Where did you use it Gary?
I am tempted to try some, but postage is high, so it would have to coincide with a trip back to the UK.

[Gazjam]

Use a set of the Isofeet under my turntable feet and motor unit and a set under my Oppo bluray player.
Noticeable improvement in both cases, especially with my Gorbe.

[Ninanina]

I'm now thinking that I should update my hifi rack to something a bit nicer.. I'm currently using a fairly cheap Ikea jobby...

If these feet make that much difference then I'm sure updating the rack will also improve the sound as well...;)

[Anthony K]

Hi Nina , have you tried Nordost Sort Cones?
using the AC cones under my cdp and they make a huge difference

[Ninanina]

Hi Anthony
No I've not tried the Nordost cones. Looks like they are £59.99 each for the AC ones which is a bit too rich for me at the moment... ;)

[MikeMusic]

Is that pecking order from best to worst or worst to best?

Least good to best and also, I think the price level as well.
Wooden cones - buttons
Stillpoints of any variety - reassuringly expensive
:)

[Anthony K]

I have new set of 3 spare if you get a chance to try them and like them PM me ( 3 for price of 2 )

[CageyH]

Any updates on this?
I am using sorbothane between my glass shelves and metal rack, which noticeably cuts down vibration in the shelf. You can feel the difference.

[walpurgis]

Any updates on this?
I am using sorbothane between my glass shelves and metal rack, which noticeably cuts down vibration in the shelf. You can feel the difference.

I would have said that is an ideal use for Sorbothane.

[CageyH]

I totally agree, hence why I am using it.
I was wondering about looking at the equipment to shelf interface next.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Sorbothane only works by vertically down loading it with lots of weight. You need BIG seperates, I sit my 56KG speakers on 6mm sheets to great effect.

[CageyH]

I have chosen the size based on the combined weight of the items on the shelf, and the shelf itself.

[Ninanina]

I am now using solid cones underneath the Dac and 'squishy' ones under the CDP.. I can't decide which I prefer at the moment. I am pretty sure about the solid ones under the Dac but need to try some under the CDP before I decide which is best... They have both made a difference to the sound, in a positve way though... I will get back once I've decided which way I'm going

Thanks for your patience but I've not been able to get much of a listen over the last few days... ;)

[The Barbarian]

Just waiting for these to arrive

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-SORBOTHANE-ALUMINIUM-isolating-feet-IF30-10S3AL-O-/291353746780?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item43d6095d5c

[struth]

Just waiting for these to arrive

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-SORBOTHANE-ALUMINIUM-isolating-feet-IF30-10S3AL-O-/291353746780?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item43d6095d5c

They are almost identical to the ones on my TT Andre. they are good.

[Ninanina]

Just waiting for these to arrive

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-SORBOTHANE-ALUMINIUM-isolating-feet-IF30-10S3AL-O-/291353746780?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item43d6095d5c

What are you intending to put them under ?

[Ninanina]

Geoff suggested using felt underneath my speakers to rest on their stands.. is that the best thing to use under speakers?

For stand mounted speakers I always used Blu Tack, but is that ok for floor mounted speakers on little wooden stands? or should I stick with the felt?

Thanks for any help ;)

[brian2957]

Just waiting for these to arrive

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-SORBOTHANE-ALUMINIUM-isolating-feet-IF30-10S3AL-O-/291353746780?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item43d6095d5c

These look interesting Andre and they don't cost the Earth either .

[The Barbarian]

What are you intending to put them under ?

Im still playing with my Michell turntable that originally had springy feet, now they have conical feet but im getting a bit of foot fall. Thought id give these a go with the conical's see what the outcome is...

[Ninanina]

Geoff suggested using felt underneath my speakers to rest on their stands.. is that the best thing to use under speakers?

For stand mounted speakers I always used Blu Tack, but is that ok for floor mounted speakers on little wooden stands? or should I stick with the felt?

Thanks for any help ;)

Anyone ?? ;)

[walpurgis]

Anyone ?? ;)

Try them all Bev.

I don't like BluTak, it eventually leaves greasy marks on porous surfaces.

[Ninanina]

Try them all Bev.

I don't like BluTak, it eventually leaves greasy marks on porous surfaces.

You are right on the BluTack leaving marks so I'm not so keen to use them for the larger Heresy's.. only smaller stand mounts.. I've got some little squishy feet from David which I could also try underneath them, well on one speaker at least to see if they are suitable... Thanks .... ;)

[Ninanina]

Use craft felt sheet. It'll protect the speakers without producing an obvious compliance (flexible interface).

I have just moved the slant risers away from the Heresy's (my back is now complaining!) and put some felt underneath them which replaced some squishy feet thingy's and I think I prefer the felt... thanks Geoff for the tip.. ;)

[Ninanina]

I should also point out that the wooden cones are doing sterling service under the Dac... They have definitley improved the sound of the Dac and they will be staying in the system...

Thanks to David for sending them... :)

[walpurgis]

I have just moved the slant risers away from the Heresy's (my back is now complaining!) and put some felt underneath them which replaced some squishy feet thingy's and I think I prefer the felt... thanks Geoff for the tip.. ;)

Jolly good! :)

[Ninanina]

Thanks so much to David (MCRU) for supplying a range of 'feet' to try out in my system...

My final analysis is that the wooden cone feet are perfect for underneath the Dac and that the 'squishy' feet are great underneath the cdp..

It's quite tricky to tell you how these simple upgrades have helped but I do find the sound improvement to be beneficial to the whole system..

Thanks again David (MCRU) for the trial sets, much appreciated..;)

I will now purchase, from David (MCRU), suitable feet to go under the amp as well.... ;)

I think that Geoff's idea of felt under the Heresy's has also helped... they seem to project the sound a bit better with the felt under them..

[twickers]

Jolly good.

[walpurgis]

Glad it's all working out Bev. You can never be sure what solutions will work until you try them.

[Ninanina]

Glad it's all working out Bev. You can never be sure what solutions will work until you try them.

Thanks again Geoff for the tip of felt under the speakers... the Heresy's really seem to like it... ;)

[andrasszamek]

Great stuff! Tweaks are really something one has to try in ones own system to get right. Im glad you were able to dial in you system just so!

[Yomanze]

I totally agree, hence why I am using it.
I was wondering about looking at the equipment to shelf interface next.

It's interesting because with my Mana racks (glass on spikes in metal frame) I don't like heavily absorptive material like sorbothane, sort of defeats the object of the 'ground coupling' of glass & spiked metal. I prefer no extra cones, but I do use 4x Black Ravoli pads under my 9KG DAC as they have big aluminium feet and are too slippy / hard on glass.

It depends on whether you want to 'couple' or 'decouple' your HiFi components from the outside 'ground' environment (vibrations coming through floor or out of the gear rather than just free air). Using Oak cones for example will offer a tight coupling with some absorption from the material used, but Sorbothane decouples the component - people sometimes report of a more 'mushy' sound with Sorbothane and more 'detailed' sound with wooden cones... Or maybe Sorbothane is more 'natural' and the wooden cones are too 'harsh'...

Mana racks work differently & certainly do not isolate, and IMHO I don't believe in phases, and am sure these were originally designed as a 'cure' for people using a Mana rack on a concrete floor - for a suspended wooden floor I like 'angle iron & spiked glass' and perhaps it does impart a 'live' colouration, but I like things sounding more live if there's no harshness. I also like to use spiked metal stands for my speakers i.e. everything coupled to the floor.

The thing is, if like REXTON you have huge 50+kg monster speakers, and not standmounts like I use, then the rules completely change. This stuff is very room and system dependent.

[CageyH]

My rack is "spiked" (with Super Spikes) onto my suspended wooden floor.
By using the Sorbothane between the rack and the glass shelves, it has cut down on the vibration in the glass shelf. The components on the rack (all except the SL1200) use their original feet.

Has the sorbothane turned the sound "mushy"? I don't think so. Not to my ears anyway.
Will wooden cones make any difference? I don't think so. I have loads of oak in the garden, so I may make some blocks up and see what happens.