Dual 1019

[Gordon Steadman]

I'm going after a Dual 1019 advertised locally for €60. I've offered him €50 but will still buy if he insists on the full amount I expect.

Wish me luck:)

[walpurgis]

Nice little TT. I like those.

[Gordon Steadman]

Well, I got it for €50. Picked it up before lunch. For the size of the thing its very heavy. Everything mechanical works very well although when he demonstrated, there was no signal. Nice little ADC cart is included. When I get a mo I'll do a continuity test on the leads. Always possible it was his NAD 3020 that was at fault.

The plinth is missing the usual strip along the front but I'll just let in some contrasting wood and polish up the veneer. The arm is easy enough to touch up. Love the detachable section - very smart. Once I know it all works and how it sounds, I may well do a new plinth but that is for later. I have wanted another idler drive ever since my 301 got nicked. If it comes halfway to the quality of that I'll be pleased for the price.

I won't go on too much as there was a recent thread on the same beastie. Wouldn't want to bore you all.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7472/16236852922_696f08aa94_o.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7580/16050288620_2d95f80a8d_o.jpg

[struth]

nice little project for you Gordon. sure it,ll look grand with a bit of spit n polish

[Gordon Steadman]

Hmmm...driving me a bit potty this one. Someone had the weight up to around 5 grammes as the 'needle kept skating across the record!!' Checked out the cart and.....nowt on the end of the little arm thingie!!

Changed over to an Audio Technica and one channel.....the sound is terrific on that one channel mind, really deep tuneful bass. Check all the wiring and there is a circuit on each contact.:scratch:

Looked inside and there is a mute switch on the arm lead terminal block and then what looks like a step up amp which leads out to the DIN plug!!! I wired the arm leads direct to a lead just to see if I could get it to work and the answer is .....NO.

I suspect the rather clever removable headshell is at fault anyway, the contacts are loose. I may well solder the cart leads into the main headshell. It will still be easy to change carts using the removable bit. I may even rewire completely as I have a spare length of silver litz wire from when I did the RB300. Doubt spare parts are available now. I downloaded the service manual and there is no mention of the step up device anywhere.

Tomorrow is another day. I've run out of patience today.

[walpurgis]

As you suspect, it's likely to be the headshell contacts. They get distorted and move out of alignment. Easy to sort usually.

Dual cartridge carriers crop up on eBay should you need one. They probably vary in design from model to model though.

[dantheman91]

Yep they are troublesome the headshells on these mine had to be rewired into the tonearm and the headshells are hard to find in good condition.

Great TT's though once up and running theirs no going back they are addictive

[Gordon Steadman]

Yep they are troublesome the headshells on these mine had to be rewired into the tonearm and the headshells are hard to find in good condition.

Great TT's though once up and running theirs no going back they are addictive

Found a couple for sale in the States for around €75!!! I think I'll rewire the arm. I tried again this evening just removing the arm leads from the terminals and soldering them straight to some leads. Just a loud buzzing...summat not quite right.

[dantheman91]

It may take time its an old unit yep prices are crazy. You will get their i was lucky i paid a £5 for mine in mint untouched condition maybe new phono leads will be a option to i replaced mine with original rega wires and work fine the issue maybe their too. You will find the problem just take patience:)

[Gordon Steadman]

It may take time its an old unit yep prices are crazy. You will get their i was lucky i paid a £5 for mine in mint untouched condition maybe new phono leads will be a option to i replaced mine with original rega wires and work fine the issue maybe their too. You will find the problem just take patience:)

Something for which I am not exactly famous :eyebrows:

[Gordon Steadman]

Well, I operated this morning. Dual are very kind and make it dead easy to get at the cart leads so it took about five minutes to get the new litz wires through.

The patient is now in the recovery room and we will see if it works later on. I've bypassed the mute switch so it will interesting to see if all the clanking and groaning come through. I've left all the original bits and bobs in place just in case.

If it actually comes to the worst, I'd be quite happy to remove all the auto stuff and just have the arm free and manually operated. Time will tell. The thing would weigh half as much without all that metalwork underneath.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7495/15622918144_2b42282e30_o.jpg

[Gordon Steadman]

This is a little cracker. Fantastic value for €50. It has 90% of the attributes of the 301.

Really deep, tuneful bass but a bit more right and left than I'm used to. However, this is with a cheap AT cartridge so first I'll try the Shure M75 ED and then the ultimate test.....Technics EPC205:)

[struth]

Good job Gordon. they are super decks once fettled and was always intent on getting another but it wasnt to be. is it a big job to turn it all manual?

[Gordon Steadman]

Good job Gordon. they are super decks once fettled and was always intent on getting another but it wasnt to be. is it a big job to turn it all manual?

It doesn't look too bad. As ever, it's just making sure you leave the levers that switch on and off. A grab of the arm levers gives an idea of the sort of stuff to remove.

[Gordon Steadman]

For the time being, at least, its taken the place of my usual TT on the yet to be completed hi-fi cabinet. This has a floating top and is spiked under. Sounds better than the Soundstyle rack it replaced.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8601/15626855323_11781b2ca1_o.jpg

[dantheman91]

Audiophile Dust :eek:

[DSJR]

Hi Gordon,

Before dismantling the deck, PLEASE look on VE as there is the service manual and a mine of info in the Dual 'room' and a definite service procedure that all these old auto decks usually need - and yours has had a well used life judging by the pictures!

The internal arm wiring if it's in good enough order is perfect for vintage Shures as it offers a higher capacitance than the later cables as fitted to modern tonearms. The cartridge carrier contacts will need a damn good clean (check on ebay.de for replacement carriers - Mr Stylus used to have them as well) and you'll need to check continuity back to the terminal block/muting switch. The individual screened wires Dual used here can get corroded inside though and my 1214 arm is a bit 'hummy' on one channel if I use a low output MC cartridge (Supex 900E and MC30 Super), which these arms are quite capable of tracking...

Depending on the model, the muting switch area either allows a fresh exit cable to be soldered in place (I use Van Damme tour grade screened or pro Patch mic cables to definite advantage here), or on some models, there are phono sockets attached to the under-support which makes new cables easy to fit. The muting switch shouldn't be a cause of hum here (apart from - see below - ) as all that happens is that the little 'blades' short together when the mechanism is cycling.


Sorry to make another essay (I swore I wouldn't as I become patronising with the slightest nudge :(), but the earthing arrangement should be as follows... I believe the headshell metal is connected to the right channel return in the shell contacts. Not sure what happens if this is severed.. On many Duals, the chassis is 'earthed' to the signal screens in the terminal block. You'll see a little 'star-lug' type washer with wires connecting the screens to the chassis point. Good idea to sever these and take a fresh flexible wire to the amp or mains earth point and leave the signal returns separate.

Hope the above helps and not hinders things. the 1019 is a true classic and full of genuine charm if working as intended (good ones are usually £100 or more now) and it's well worth methodically going through some restoration of the deck as well as the plinth. The VE Dual room is amazing for info and you'll meet many like me (including me:o :eek:) who have allowed these turntables' charms to infect us. With the motor, its suspension and idler suitably serviced, it should be as quiet as any Garrard 301 or 401 (it's more like a Lenco in terms of 'drive noise' IME) and has that lovely 'solid and musical' kind of musical drive so endearing in idler models. The arm is good too once electrically fettled and with a mat added as spacer to get the arm level when playing, it should play host to a huge range of cartridges, as the later classic 1219/1229 and related series' of players do. I've used a K9, Ortofon 520 and DL110 in these 1019's with absolute success, so by inference, the Sumiko Pearl, 2M Blue or Bronze and others should be perfect too. The AT120E, 440MLa and 150MLX may not work so well due to arm mass causing 'cantilever wobble' on ripply records.


Good luck :)

[DSJR]

P.S. You've done surgery on it already I see - Please remember that these are future antiques and as the mechanism is superb once serviced (the auto trip parts are legendary in their sensitivity if they've not been got at or gummed up), I honestly don't believe you'll need to remove anything - A Garrard Autoslim it certainly isn't - and it took the Zero 100 and later models for Garrard to come anywhere near catching up the engineering expertise Dual lavished on all their models from the late 60's to late 70's - and beyond in some models :)

[Gordon Steadman]

Hi Gordon,

Before dismantling the deck, PLEASE look on VE as there is the service manual and a mine of info in the Dual 'room' and a definite service procedure that all these old auto decks usually need - and yours has had a well used life judging by the pictures!

The internal arm wiring if it's in good enough order is perfect for vintage Shures as it offers a higher capacitance than the later cables as fitted to modern tonearms. The cartridge carrier contacts will need a damn good clean (check on ebay.de for replacement carriers - Mr Stylus used to have them as well) and you'll need to check continuity back to the terminal block/muting switch.

Depending on the model, the muting switch area either allows a fresh exit cable to be soldered in place (I use Van Damme tour grade screened or pro Patch mic cables to definite advantage here), or on some models, there are phono sockets attached to the under-support which makes new cables easy to fit. The muting switch shouldn't be a cause of hum here (apart from - see below - ) as all that happens is that the little 'blades' short together when the mechanism is cycling.


Sorry to make another essay (I swore I wouldn't as I become patronising with the slightest nudge :(), but the earthing arrangement should be as follows... I believe the headshell metal is connected to the right channel return in the shell contacts. Not sure what happens if this is severed.. On many Duals, the chassis is 'earthed' to the signal screens in the terminal block. You'll see a little 'star-lug' type washer with wires connecting the screens to the chassis point. Good idea to sever these and take a fresh flexible wire to the amp or mains earth point and leave the signal returns separate.

Hope the above helps and not hinders things. the 1019 is a true classic (good ones are usually £100 or more now) and it's well worth methodically going through some restoration of the deck as well as the plinth. The VE Dual room is amazing for info and you'll meet many like me (including me:o :eek:) who have allowed these turntables' charms to infect us. With the motor, its suspension and idler suitably serviced, it should be as quiet as any Garrard 301 or 401 (it's more like a Lenco in terms of 'drive noise' IME) and has that lovely 'solid and musical' kind of musical drive so endearing in idler models. The arm is good too once electrically fettled and with a mat added as spacer to get the arm level when playing, it should play host to a huge range of cartridges, as the later 1219/1229 series of players do. I've used a K9, Ortofon 520 and DL110 in these with absolute success, so by inference, the Sumiko Pearl, 2M Blue or Bronze and others should be perfect too.

Good luck :)

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the info. A bit late on the wiring as I've redone it completely in silver litz and bypassed the mute switch. The mechanical noise now might annoy a bat (or my wife) but is really hardly worth the bother of muting. I'm not one to care about originality, especially with one that, as you say, has been well used.

In spite of that it is really quiet and the sound, as you say, is absolutely rock solid. There are ways I definitely prefer it to my usual belter with the OL RB250. I have yet to fit the Technics. More playing will ensue.

[DSJR]

:) Glad you like it so far...

The EPC205 should be ok and it's quite safe to use the auto mech to position the arm. As I doubt you'll ever use the changer mode (great for singles with a suitable durable cartridge), lift the arm on the cueing device BEFORE auto-starting the deck. the arm will move over to the start of the record and then gently lower on the cueing device at cycle-end. The particular design here carried on with all the models with 10" platters I remember, but the 12" platter models (which gradually took over) had a different design.

P.S. For used Dual spares, try 'organdonorparts' in the US, as they often have parted out Duals of different models with a list of spares available for each one. I got a good few parts for my 1214 from there :)




It's really worth immersing yourself in the Dual ethos of this era. They were great engineers and it shows in the sonics. Although familiarity with the 505 series bred some contempt with this later flimsy era, I may try a 505-3 again one day to see if anything can be done with it (they just didn't 'sound' as good as the idler and heavier belt driven models Dual used to make)

[Canetoad]

The mechanical side of it is the reason I bought mine. I just love the way the automatic mechanism works! Mine is a future project. I'd love to install it in and old radiogram cabinet like my grandfather used to have and use modern amplification etc. hidden inside.

When ever I see somebody else with a 1019 I'm reminded I have to get stuck into mine. :)

[Gordon Steadman]

The mechanical side of it is the reason I bought mine. I just love the way the automatic mechanism works! Mine is a future project. I'd love to install it in and old radiogram cabinet like my grandfather used to have and use modern amplification etc. hidden inside.

When ever I see somebody else with a 1019 I'm reminded I have to get stuck into mine. :)

I got it to try and rediscover what it was about idler drives I used to love. As soon as I got it working I knew. Everything about the presentation is just right. However, talking to the VE forum, you would think that this is some priceless antique and they venerate the object rather than what it can do. The assumption is that I could afford to spend whatever it takes to get it 100%. If that were the case, then I wouldn't have bought a cheap, rather well used example. Some of the auto functions are not working quite right and I find that frustrating when I just want to listen to the damn thing.

Right now, I have a TT that I am almost happy with. If the bits that don't work are stripped out, I will have one that I am very happy with.

I prefer the sound to the Origin Live TT. So I will do to this whatever I fancy doing, if that makes it non original then tough titty to the purists, you do your thing and I'll do mine:ner:

[Canetoad]

Of course. I wasn't trying to talk you out of it Gordo! :)

:ner: to you too! :lol:

[Mr Kipling]

I got it to try and rediscover what it was about idler drives I used to love. As soon as I got it working I knew. Everything about the presentation is just right. However, talking to the VE forum, you would think that this is some priceless antique and they venerate the object rather than what it can do. The assumption is that I could afford to spend whatever it takes to get it 100%. If that were the case, then I wouldn't have bought a cheap, rather well used example. Some of the auto functions are not working quite right and I find that frustrating when I just want to listen to the damn thing.

Right now, I have a TT that I am almost happy with. If the bits that don't work are stripped out, I will have one that I am very happy with.

I prefer the sound to the Origin Live TT. So I will do to this whatever I fancy doing, if that makes it non original then tough titty to the purists, you do your thing and I'll do mine:ner:

You Cad, Sir!

You Cad!

[Gordon Steadman]

You Cad, Sir!

You Cad!

Nah, I do it all by hand:eyebrows:

[Gordon Steadman]

P.S. You've done surgery on it already I see - Please remember that these are future antiques and as the mechanism is superb once serviced (the auto trip parts are legendary in their sensitivity if they've not been got at or gummed up), I honestly don't believe you'll need to remove anything - A Garrard Autoslim it certainly isn't - and it took the Zero 100 and later models for Garrard to come anywhere near catching up the engineering expertise Dual lavished on all their models from the late 60's to late 70's - and beyond in some models :)

Dave, this is the bit I have trouble with. They are not past, present, future or any other kind of antique. They are just record players. Superbly well engineered record players but record players never the less. There are lots about. Just about everyone on the VE forum seems to have one and there are loads available on eBay - mostly from Germany at quite high prices. Me fettling mine so it suits me is not going to rob the world of a great artwork. By rewiring the arm, I have solved a problem which means I can use it and haven't in any way spoiled the sound but probably improved it a fraction.

The same will apply if I remove the gubbins for auto. I will keep all the bits in case a future purist decides they want to rebuild it but I want to listen to music, not stare at it lovingly and bow down to Dual engineers in a shrine in the corner.

I intend to service the motor and the idler wheel and make sure the platter bearing is properly lubed but that is as much time as I wish it to be out of action. Its a long time since a deck made me want to listen to all my records again and I just want to get on with it. I very rarely sell my hi-fi bits, so any resale value is an irrelevance to me.

We are back to my bugbear about two different hobbies - one about music, the other about equipment.

[struth]

quite right Gordon. its for listening to musac.

[DSJR]

Gordon, the fact that stuff like this is still working after nearly fifty years is, to me anyway, testament to the fact that they will still be running in another fifty years and there will be millions of vinyl discs still to play on them!

Please excuse my 'religious' fervour with this brand's turntables from this era, I can't help it I'm afraid and the heart rules the head here with me.

The auto mechanism on these suffers from one major issue - gummed up grease (oh yes, and sometimes a flattened steurerpimpel - crumbling away on later models)! The basic mech is very simple to strip out (mainly the main arm-moving lever, which governs up-down and lateral movement, together with the main cam gear, which is also a doddle to remove). Thing is, removing and degreasing the worst of it would bring back full functionality if re-assembled, but as you rightly say, it's yours to do with as you wish - (you should know how Aspergically upset I get at seeing GL75's being torn asunder for the main drive and platter only, to know what I'm like ;))

In the office/workshop system, I'm currently playing with a 1214 I was given in transit damaged form. This thing was in a terrible state and by rights I should have junked it or stripped it out for sale of the parts. I'm a twonk I know, but I couldn't bring myself to do this, so I found a replacement tonearm and rest, bought a cheap 1216 cast heavier platter (not as heavy as the 1019 one though) and stripped down and cleaned all the excess (added) grease off with an aerosol solvent cleaner (I'm a lazy git, but it did the job). Re-fitting was easy for me apart from the non captive balls in this model's horizontal tonearm bearings (the 1019 and 1216 models have better held captive races).


One final tip before I shuffle away is regarding the main drive and motor. I've been informed that humble EP80 gear oil is quite safe for the main bearing spindle/sleeve and captive thrust assembly (pots of Alvania grease are available from mrow2 on VE) and that the motor uses chrome or similar plating on the rotor spindle. Some circlip pliers can be used to carefully prise the two halves of the motor apart and the main place to check is the bottom of the rotor spindle for excessive wear. there's a 'sacrificial' copper disc at the base of the bottom motor bearing apparently, and this can be usefully turned upside down to present a fresh surface if there's too much wear here.

Apologies again for letting the heart rule the head on this deck. I wouldn't have bothered to post if I didn't know how good these basic decks are - for reproducing music from vinyl records - so please look on me with sympathy...

[Idlewithnodrive]

I've still got my 1019.

It's a lovely little deck for what it costs and performs well above it's price point.

http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac143/TheMJMan/a91b2564-6858-4795-a878-063259f1b921_zpseee966d4.jpg

All original except for an interference fit heavy base board (I've kept the original) and some removable damping. The arm is very good and I've had it singing with an AN IQ2, although the limited arm adjustment didn't suit my 2M Black as well.

[Gordon Steadman]

Gordon, the fact that stuff like this is still working after nearly fifty years is, to me anyway, testament to the fact that they will still be running in another fifty years and there will be millions of vinyl discs still to play on them!

Please excuse my 'religious' fervour with this brand's turntables from this era, I can't help it I'm afraid and the heart rules the head here with me.

The auto mechanism on these suffers from one major issue - gummed up grease (oh yes, and sometimes a flattened steurerpimpel - crumbling away on later models)! The basic mech is very simple to strip out (mainly the main arm-moving lever, which governs up-down and lateral movement, together with the main cam gear, which is also a doddle to remove). Thing is, removing and degreasing the worst of it would bring back full functionality if re-assembled, but as you rightly say, it's yours to do with as you wish - (you should know how Aspergically upset I get at seeing GL75's being torn asunder for the main drive and platter only, to know what I'm like ;))

In the office/workshop system, I'm currently playing with a 1214 I was given in transit damaged form. This thing was in a terrible state and by rights I should have junked it or stripped it out for sale of the parts. I'm a twonk I know, but I couldn't bring myself to do this, so I found a replacement tonearm and rest, bought a cheap 1216 cast heavier platter (not as heavy as the 1019 one though) and stripped down and cleaned all the excess (added) grease off with an aerosol solvent cleaner (I'm a lazy git, but it did the job). Re-fitting was easy for me apart from the non captive balls in this model's horizontal tonearm bearings (the 1019 and 1216 models have better held captive races).


One final tip before I shuffle away is regarding the main drive and motor. I've been informed that humble EP80 gear oil is quite safe for the main bearing spindle/sleeve and captive thrust assembly (pots of Alvania grease are available from mrow2 on VE) and that the motor uses chrome or similar plating on the rotor spindle. Some circlip pliers can be used to carefully prise the two halves of the motor apart and the main place to check is the bottom of the rotor spindle for excessive wear. there's a 'sacrificial' copper disc at the base of the bottom motor bearing apparently, and this can be usefully turned upside down to present a fresh surface if there's too much wear here.

Apologies again for letting the heart rule the head on this deck. I wouldn't have bothered to post if I didn't know how good these basic decks are - for reproducing music from vinyl records - so please look on me with sympathy...

Sympathy wending its way:lol:

I have carefully put all the parts in a plastic box marked "only to be opened by an audio purist". I have taken the motor apart as per the instructions on VE. The bearings look OK but everything is a bit dry and the idler wheel is polished. I'll need to get some small bolts tomorrow to put the bottom bearing back together. Talking of which, although it doesn't look as if its been apart before, there are two bits mentioned in the instructions that don't exist. All I have is a bottom copper thrust pad, the bearing and the felt ring - which is in perfect condition although completely dry. No split washer or small felt washer. I'm assuming this is just another variation? The copper pad looks not too bad but I'll turn it over anyway.

Without the platter in place the motor was vibrating a bit so hopefully some oil will improve it. Strange that I can even forgive a bit of noise though because the music is so real and solid, its only in the very quiet sections that it is noticeable.

I'm going to go straight to the Technics when its back together so we shall see what we shall see.

[Mr Kipling]

What happens when you snuff it and the wife says: "What's in this box?", Gordy?

[Gordon Steadman]

What happens when you snuff it and the wife says: "What's in this box?", Gordy?

When that happens, I regret to say that I won't really care:eyebrows:

Anyway, she has been involved in the whole process so unless her memory starts to fade, she will know. As she is as keen on the music as I am, it will be whoever is left after her to wonder. Maybe I'd better put a note in the will about valuable family heirlooms.:)

[dantheman91]

Hi Guys

Just noticed mine making a wiring noise when spinning low in volume but its their close up to the platter not noticeable when playing a record worth investigating or just leave it........works fine other then that...:)

[DSJR]

I think a 'faint' whirring is normal, if my memory of my 1229 (similar motor but not synchronised on 10** series IIRC) is correct. It's especially important I find, that the stiff wiring doesn't impede the motor suspension and that these motors 'float' as much as possible in their rubbery mounting.

Re 'polished' Dual idler wheels.. The rubber compound is usually soft enough over time that a careful sanding (either in a drill chuck - watch you don't lose the fixing washer, or carefully while it's rotating in situ) can fully restore its function. There are at least two sizes of idler as well, the 10** and smaller 12** models using a smaller diameter wheel with a long bronze 'sleeve.' The bigger models with 12" platters have a larger diameter and thinner 'tyre' which has a slightly curved outer edge. The bushing sleeve on these is also shorter (I was caught out after ordering a new idler from Wm Thakker).

[dantheman91]

I think a 'faint' whirring is normal, if my memory of my 1229 (similar motor but not synchronised on 10** series IIRC) is correct. It's especially important I find, that the stiff wiring doesn't impede the motor suspension and that these motors 'float' as much as possible in their rubbery mounting.

Re 'polished' Dual idler wheels.. The rubber compound is usually soft enough over time that a careful sanding (either in a drill chuck - watch you don't lose the fixing washer, or carefully while it's rotating in situ) can fully restore its function. There are at least two sizes of idler as well, the 10** and smaller 12** models using a smaller diameter wheel with a long bronze 'sleeve.' The bigger models with 12" platters have a larger diameter and thinner 'tyre' which has a slightly curved outer edge. The bushing sleeve on these is also shorter (I was caught out after ordering a new idler from Wm Thakker).



Thanks Dave your knowledge is truly wonderful.......

Time to plug and play.......:)

Currently Spinning
The Strawbs - Bursting At The Seams
:)

[Gordon Steadman]

At the risk of annoying the purists again............ I've let a strip of oak in where the missing plastic goes and stuck a little Dual badge on in case I forget what it is.............the Technics cartridge is in situ and tracks very well indeed at 1.4 grammes.

The sound.... sorry guys but its better without all the gubbins underneath. I'm aware that in manual mode it isn't really connected but the platter still has to push some of it around. It may be light but its still gears an stuff. Dual set out to design an auto-changer and did a brilliant job. But the fact remains that just having the motor make the platter go round and the arm being free of any mechanical connections improves it further.

After the motor strip down and idler fettle, its as silent as I've ever heard an idler drive. Its using headphones that really shows the difference. The tiny details are much clearer, things in the background are obvious. The musical drive is just addictive.

It's tempting to try the OL RB250 on it but I reckon that is a step too far and I'll wait for something else to come up that I can afford. Maybe a 301/401 but I'll have to start saving.

This 50 year old TT is now the main one and my OL has been relegated to back up. Thats progress for you.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8618/16089806370_1d4ece90b3_o.jpg

[Gordon Steadman]

As the Dual is in use, the old TT has had a rebuild. I always found the motor being separate a right pain so have built it back into the bottom section. there is no noise either of us can hear being transmitted and the damn thing now sounds better than it did. So much so that its a bit difficult to decide between them. The Dual just wins it for me, it has that bit more drive and life to it. The OL is very refined and a little bit polite in comparison. So for now, the Technics stays on the Dual and the OL has to make do with the Shure M75ED.

Anyway, I can have the choice. The CDP has been relegated to the inside of the cupboard and sounds no worse for it.

Must make some proper doors, the temporary ones are a bit naff. Nice shiny lid on the Dual now:)

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7514/16108781917_19183976bf_o.jpg

[The Barbarian]

I prefered those old Dual TT's in the United Audio plinths

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-1019-Vintage-Turntable-Player-United-Audio-Plinth-Parts-or-repair-/261732834071?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf07e1b17

[struth]

Always wanted one of those, and never got one.:(

[Gordon Steadman]

I prefered those old Dual TT's in the United Audio plinths

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-1019-Vintage-Turntable-Player-United-Audio-Plinth-Parts-or-repair-/261732834071?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf07e1b17

Hi Andre,

What is the difference? They look about the same size, is it a mounting thing?

At some stage I will make a new plinth for this one but for now I'm too busy listening to it:)

[The Barbarian]

Hi Andre,

What is the difference? They look about the same size, is it a mounting thing?

At some stage I will make a new plinth for this one but for now I'm too busy listening to it:)

Na i just liked the tapered plinth & tapered lid to match, thought they looked good

[Gordon Steadman]

Na i just liked the tapered plinth & tapered lid to match, thought they looked good

Ah, I thought that was just the camera angle:lol:

Nice idea but I think I'm going a bit heavier with mine.

[The Barbarian]

Won't sound any different ;)

[Gordon Steadman]

Won't sound any different ;)

Probably not but heavy means bigger and it looks a bit blocky to me as it is. So it will be wider and slightly shallower and made of some good, solid timber. I fancy yew but I'm not sure I have anything big enough in the pile. Must have a dig through.

[The Barbarian]

:)

[struth]

:)

Looks great Andre....very cool

[Gordon Steadman]

I been looking at that for a couple of weeks now, wondering if I prefer that to a wooden one. Might give it a go.

I wonder if anyone else has been so silly as to listen to a Garrard SP25 lately:lol:

After my experiences with the Dual, I thought I'd get out the Garrard and give it a quick service. Cleaned and lubricated thoroughly. I changed the arm some time ago to an old Sony with a detachable headshell so its easy to compare different decks.

It's made of tin in comparison to the Dual and doesn't get that close but.............the basic sound is really surprising, very clean with a nice tuneful, solid bass. OK the mechanical noise is a bit obtrusive but the basics are really good. I am now convinced that idler drive is the way to go. I've been reading about Jean Nantais this week and I can see exactly why he is so sold on this idea and why the movement back to Lencos and the like is gathering pace. When I go back to belt drive, the music sound a bit etherial and lacking in drive somehow.

Might have to annoy Ronnie a bit more and check out eBay:eyebrows:

[walpurgis]

:)

All you need to go with that is a pair of 1970 Braun speakers and a SABA receiver each in white.

[The Barbarian]

'LE-1'/'CSV13' is only a dream

[DSJR]

I have two Garrard '60' type models (an early AT6 and a 60mk2, the latter now with a synchro-lab motor) and they're great for singles. I don't think they're very good in modern terms though, although ripping the arm and mech off makes them something else than an SP25 though;) Mind you, some of my all time favourite albums (Led Zep II, and PF's Meddle) were first heard on an SP25 III with AT66, Metrosound ST20 and Denton W20's and left a real impression, to the extent I now have an ST20 in need of TLC and the Dentons are great, if a touch 'foggy' by modern standards.

Gordon, if you prefer the Dual without the gubbins then fine, but there's so little that could add nasty resonances in all honesty. The main cam is closely pivoted at its centre and Alvania grease was used to prevent wear and 'rattles.' The main operating lever is also tightly spring loaded and stiffly pivoted in both planes, so can't buzz or rattle when not in use and the cueing/size lever is also sat on the main lever with a smear of grease preventing any vibration. The only part that possibly 'could' affect things in my experience is the main trip slider, which is delrin? pivoted at the tonearm end and slides/rolls on a ball at the platter end. The tonearm end could perhaps be ever so gently lubed with a tiny smear of fine silicon grease, but as all Duals use a version of this part (even my beloved 701 which is auto and proud of it!) I don't know.

Academic I know and sorry to chip in again. I've become rather a fan of these as you know rather too well by now :rolleyes:

[Gordon Steadman]

I have two Garrard '60' type models (an early AT6 and a 60mk2, the latter now with a synchro-lab motor) and they're great for singles. I don't think they're very good in modern terms though, although ripping the arm and mech off makes them something else than an SP25 though;) Mind you, some of my all time favourite albums (Led Zep II, and PF's Meddle) were first heard on an SP25 III with AT66, Metrosound ST20 and Denton W20's and left a real impression, to the extent I now have an ST20 in need of TLC and the Dentons are great, if a touch 'foggy' by modern standards.

Gordon, if you prefer the Dual without the gubbins then fine, but there's so little that could add nasty resonances in all honesty. The main cam is closely pivoted at its centre and Alvania grease was used to prevent wear and 'rattles.' The main operating lever is also tightly spring loaded and stiffly pivoted in both planes, so can't buzz or rattle when not in use and the cueing/size lever is also sat on the main lever with a smear of grease preventing any vibration. The only part that possibly 'could' affect things in my experience is the main trip slider, which is delrin? pivoted at the tonearm end and slides/rolls on a ball at the platter end. The tonearm end could perhaps be ever so gently lubed with a tiny smear of fine silicon grease, but as all Duals use a version of this part (even my beloved 701 which is auto and proud of it!) I don't know.

Academic I know and sorry to chip in again. I've become rather a fan of these as you know rather too well by now :rolleyes:

Enthusiasm should be a test of being human.:)

[Gordon Steadman]

Now the Dual is in place, I am being a bit overwhelmed with offers of old TTs, gawd knows where I going to put them. I collect a JVC linear tracker tomorrow, don't know which model yet. he says he has another TT in the loft which he will try and look out as well!! Might even be something decent!!

Poor old Grommit is going to get squeezed out!!

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