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leo
25-01-2008, 01:27
I know you've seen this one but posted it here anyway:)
Double crown dac chip is now in place of the standard A grade.
Asynchronous reclocking (bypassable) and input receiver is on other side, regulation is all discrete using negative feedback and shunts.
Output stage is NFB common base
Shielded ransformer is custom wound supplying each stage separate

My other main dac is based around a PCM1794, it uses discrete regulation, Tent labs oscillator with low noise psu.
I'm currently working on a discrete differential to line output stage, will post pics sometime later

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1293/4634025/12749957/290780821.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1293/4634025/12749957/288136781.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1293/4634025/12749957/288435925.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1293/4634025/12749957/288571301.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1293/4634025/12749957/285912171.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1293/4634025/12749957/290774688.jpg

Filterlab
25-01-2008, 10:24
That is excellent work Leo, sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me sell it to me.

:)

johnrtd
25-01-2008, 11:20
Leo

Why not use the Tandberg/Revox configuration for the output amp?

John

leo
25-01-2008, 12:52
Leo

Why not use the Tandberg/Revox configuration for the output amp?

John

Why would it be better than whats currently being used?
Common base works great as a I/V section with this chip, better than passive and far better than the classic I/V op-amp stage.
I'm getting more than enough gain

Remember I've heard a lot of units including a Hawk dac and feel more than satisfied with this;)

leo
25-01-2008, 12:55
Taa for the Avatar btw ever who gave it me:p

Filterlab
25-01-2008, 13:26
Taa for the Avatar btw ever who gave it me:p

Hehehehe, now who could have done that? Feel free to change it if you wish, just getting some colour on here! ;):)

leo
25-01-2008, 14:13
Hehehehe, now who could have done that? Feel free to change it if you wish, just getting some colour on here! ;):)


Looks fine to me taa:D

Vinyl Grinder
05-02-2008, 02:59
Seen this Leo?

http://www.dddac.de/ma_dac31.htm

leo
08-02-2008, 18:37
Yes, actually heard a few of the stacked TDA1543 dacs, wasn't really my thing tbh but they are decent enough for the price

Yomanze
12-06-2008, 17:09
Hi Leo, have you spent time swapping between the standard, S1 and S2 DACs? Any findings if so? I have read that the differences are subtle. I have also read that in testing, different years of DAC ( different production / locations) have sounded different!

Yomanze
12-06-2008, 17:14
Seen this Leo?

http://www.dddac.de/ma_dac31.htm

I will be picking up the SPDIF to I2S board (DIY SPDIF reclocking way out of my league!) and feeding it to a TDA1541A 'module' done deadbug style on copper sheet. I/V will be done by this kit I have waiting with my parts:

http://diyparadise.com/ssiv.html

Excellent work on your DAC Leo, nice neat job. Was also wondering if the reclocking brings a worthwhile improvement? Great that you can bypass the reclocking for comparison.

leo
12-06-2008, 17:58
Hi Leo, have you spent time swapping between the standard, S1 and S2 DACs? Any findings if so? I have read that the differences are subtle. I have also read that in testing, different years of DAC ( different production / locations) have sounded different!



The differences I heard here was the S2 clearly had the best bass, tighter with more depth, mids and highs sounded cleaner

The S1 did not have that bass of the S2 IMO, its sound altogether lacked the finer details, only really noticeable when doing a direct A and B comparison, in each case the DC nulling on the dacs output had to be finely adjusted

You are indeed correct regarding the standard A grade, the Taiwan stamped one sounded different to the philips stamped one, also channel noise varied with the A grades

Theres also an R1 which sounded the worse out of the ones I tried

leo
12-06-2008, 18:05
I will be picking up the SPDIF to I2S board (DIY SPDIF reclocking way out of my league!) and feeding it to a TDA1541A 'module' done deadbug style on copper sheet. I/V will be done by this kit I have waiting with my parts:

http://diyparadise.com/ssiv.html

Excellent work on your DAC Leo, nice neat job. Was also wondering if the reclocking brings a worthwhile improvement? Great that you can bypass the reclocking for comparison.

Thanks:)

Asynchronous reclocking on the I2S lines does make a difference, it makes the sound more upfront , lively which some people like with the NOS dacs.
If you find it better is hard to say, I find it can lack that natural quality with some material.
The AYA I have uses Asynchronous reclocking on the bottom of the board using a SMD Crystek oscillator, I've modded the board to allow easy bypassing if needed

Yomanze
12-06-2008, 18:52
Thanks:)

Asynchronous reclocking on the I2S lines does make a difference, it makes the sound more upfront , lively which some people like with the NOS dacs.
If you find it better is hard to say, I find it can lack that natural quality with some material.
The AYA I have uses Asynchronous reclocking on the bottom of the board using a SMD Crystek oscillator, I've modded the board to allow easy bypassing if needed

Interesting comments, thanks :) I do have a CS8412 sat here which I know is capable of very good results, maybe I'll forego the reclocking... would cut down the cost quite dramatically.

SolidState
14-06-2008, 11:17
The differences I heard here was the S2 clearly had the best bass, tighter with more depth, mids and highs sounded cleaner

The S1 did not have that bass of the S2 IMO, its sound altogether lacked the finer details, only really noticeable when doing a direct A and B comparison, in each case the DC nulling on the dacs output had to be finely adjusted

You are indeed correct regarding the standard A grade, the Taiwan stamped one sounded different to the philips stamped one, also channel noise varied with the A grades

Theres also an R1 which sounded the worse out of the ones I tried

Is there actually a way of telling from the fake S2's that come from taiwan?

Also were there any S2's without the taiwan label?

Audiocom AV
14-06-2008, 11:48
Is there actually a way of telling from the fake S2's that come from taiwan?

Also were there any S2's without the taiwan label?

Hello

TDA1541A S2's with the Taiwan stamp does not necessarily mean they are fake. The Marantz CD7 used a batch of the S2 chips with the Taiwan stamp and are genuine S2 chips.

It has been possible to buy S2 chips with the same batch code as those used in the CD7 from a company in the Far East and UK parts supplier. I have 6 pcs, 4 from the Far East and 2 from the UK supplier and both are identical in finish although I have not A/B compared performance. The date stamp is RSH9713 2, a photo of the S2’s in the CD7 can be viewed here;
http://www.marantzphilips.nl/img/info/marantz/marantz-cd7/groot/cd7-36.jpg

I have not seen any S2 chips without the Taiwan stamp available as NOS, although you may be able to find the chips S/H pulled from a defunct CD player or DAC.

Regards,
Mark Bartlett

SolidState
14-06-2008, 11:50
Hi Mark,

Thanks for that, anybody actually done an A/B comparison of the fake S2's with a genuine one you know of?

Audiocom AV
14-06-2008, 12:00
Hi Mark,

Thanks for that, anybody actually done an A/B comparison of the fake S2's with a genuine one you know of?

Hello

I do not know anybody that has received fake S2's. What makes you suspect that there are fake S2's on the market?

Best Regards
Mark

SolidState
14-06-2008, 12:02
There was a thread on pfm on them and there was a seller over on diyaudio selling them from hong kong.

Audiocom AV
14-06-2008, 14:54
There was a thread on pfm on them and there was a seller over on diyaudio selling them from hong kong.

Hello

Might the suspicions of fake S2's be because of TDA1541A's had the Taiwan stamp and therefore deemed as a Chinese copy or was there proof to substantiate it?

I cannot see how there would be a great market to 'copy' the S2 when potential sales would be to the DIYER, could be wrong.

Best Regards,
Mark

SolidState
14-06-2008, 15:08
I can't seem to find the thread, it was a group buy thread that seems to have disappeared.
If I come across anything i'll post back here.

leo
14-06-2008, 15:54
I've heard a fake S2, a guy I knew brought one and wanted me to compare it against my genuine, it sounded more like the A grades:doh:
Its easy to do fakes , all you need is a way of stamping the print on a normal Taiwan A grade, probably remove the serial code off and stamp on one the same as a known genuine, trust me some of these fakes are almost impossible to tell apart with the naked eye, we have to remember these chips can be sold for high prices so its obvious to me people are going to try it on if they can get away with it

You certainly don't need golden ears hearing the difference with a genuine S2 gainst a A or even S1 grade, it obviously helps if the design fitting these in gets the best out of it

BTW all later TDA1541A's are Taiwan stamped, S2 grades wasn't around when the philips ones was out as far as I know

leo
14-06-2008, 15:59
The other obvious way of telling a fake is by testing it, you need the test gear suitable though

lurcher
14-06-2008, 16:20
I have been thinking about that, as far as I can see the only recorded difference between the types is the LSB accuracy, and that would be very hard to measure without something like an audio precision test set. You might be able to do it with a 24bit dac as a reference.

Unless I am missing something obvious?

Audiocom AV
14-06-2008, 22:35
I've heard a fake S2, a guy I knew brought one and wanted me to compare it against my genuine, it sounded more like the A grades:doh:
Its easy to do fakes , all you need is a way of stamping the print on a normal Taiwan A grade, probably remove the serial code off and stamp on one the same as a known genuine, trust me some of these fakes are almost impossible to tell apart with the naked eye, we have to remember these chips can be sold for high prices so its obvious to me people are going to try it on if they can get away with it

You certainly don't need golden ears hearing the difference with a genuine S2 gainst a A or even S1 grade, it obviously helps if the design fitting these in gets the best out of it

BTW all later TDA1541A's are Taiwan stamped, S2 grades wasn't around when the philips ones was out as far as I know

Leo

The only sure way without the correct test gear is to buy from a reputable source.

In one DAC I have a pair of TDA1541 S1's with double crowns, now does this make them S1's or S2's?? I had read somewhere that some S1’s were rested and made the “Double Crown” grade.

Regards,
Mark Bartlett

leo
15-06-2008, 11:33
Reputable source, unfortunately their thin on the ground now that sell these, I've tried way too many of these chips, all I know is that I found the S2 to be the best, S1 next best thing.
I fitted one of the gold pin sockets with the levers on the ends to allow easy changing, people who's heard the dac here commented straight away on the bass being better with the S2, had more finer details which was only noticeable doing a direct comparison

I've never tried or seen a S1 with two crowns, because of the variation TDA1541A's used to be measured at the factory, they was stamped S1 or S2 depending on how well they measured, the ones that didn't meet certain measurements was left as the A grades.

I really wish they did all sound the same, it would be much cheaper, the standard A's are still very good, just not all lot of them, there is a few that sound poorer than others, at least with the crowns you know they are going to be decent

lurcher
15-06-2008, 12:10
I wasn't questioning that you can hear a difference Leo, just how that related to the process they used to grade them. The VIF sockets are a good idea, I am using low profile turned pin sockets to try and get the decoupling caps as close to the IC as I can, but the ZIF will certainly help this sort of comparisons.

One slight problem I can see with direct comparisons though is I find the DACs take a couple of minutes to get up to running temperature, so that would need to be taken into account.

What I want to try is to see how the 1541 compare to the more current (no pun intended) ladder dacs. But I need to get the valve output buffer built next, at the moment I only have the 1:10 step ups on the differential output, so that gives me about 0.8v full scale output.

leo
15-06-2008, 13:04
If I came across as a bit shitty I apologize:) I'm not great at explaining things so you have to bare with me:lol:

You are right these things do take time to warm up, I also have to adjust the trimmer for the DC nulling on each of these dacs outputs.
Thing I don't understand was the bass, I've no idea why it was deeper and tighter with the S2, I've found a lot of the A grades to be a bit slow and thick at times

Audiocom AV
16-06-2008, 19:03
I've heard a fake S2, a guy I knew brought one and wanted me to compare it against my genuine, it sounded more like the A grades:

Interesting, but bad news to say the least. Was the print on the fake 100% quality match of the genuine S2?


BTW all later TDA1541A's are Taiwan stamped, S2 grades wasn't around when the philips ones was out as far as I know

To the best of my knowledge the original Philips TDA1541A S1 chips were stamped both “single crown” and “double crown” depending on grade. The later S2 versions were only ever “double crown”.

According to the measurements the improvements offered by S2 are not that substantial over the standard A grade. That said, many report of notably improved sound from the S2 variety.

The last order of TDA1541A S2 chips I placed with the UK supplier sent back standard A grade. This suggest that S2’s have completely dried up from Philips. Do you know of any reliable sources?

Regards
Mark Bartlett

leo
17-06-2008, 00:33
Interesting, but bad news to say the least. Was the print on the fake 100% quality match of the genuine S2?

Not exactly, it was close but the points on the crowns looked suspect, it was the main reason he wanted to compare it




To the best of my knowledge the original Philips TDA1541A S1 chips were stamped both “single crown” and “double crown” depending on grade. The later S2 versions were only ever “double crown”.

I didn't know that tbh, there is a lot of hidden info on this chip:)



According to the measurements the improvements offered by S2 are not that substantial over the standard A grade. That said, many report of notably improved sound from the S2 variety.

Yes, problem in this hobby is that a lot of things can measure the same or similar , if only the measurements always matched the listening tests



The last order of TDA1541A S2 chips I placed with the UK supplier sent back standard A grade. This suggest that S2’s have completely dried up from Philips. Do you know of any reliable sources?

Unfortunately I don't Mark, I was very lucky with mine, it was from a small electronics shop who had it in stock for years, it was just listed as a TDA1541A dac chip so it only cost a few quid, he obviously had no idea what they was worth, shame it was the only one in there:doh:
I can have a search around if you like?

Audiocom AV
17-06-2008, 20:03
I can have a search around if you like?

Yes, I would appreciate that :)

Also, have you ever heard the Marantz Project D-1 DAC? I have never seen one in the UK and wondered if it might be a Japan only model, see here;
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=MARANTZ+PROJECT+D-1

The D1 was released at a similar time to the CD7 and used DSP circuitry in place of the SAA7220 digital filter.

Regards,
Mark Bartlett

leo
19-06-2008, 17:45
Yes, I would appreciate that :)

Also, have you ever heard the Marantz Project D-1 DAC? I have never seen one in the UK and wondered if it might be a Japan only model, see here;
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=MARANTZ+PROJECT+D-1

The D1 was released at a similar time to the CD7 and used DSP circuitry in place of the SAA7220 digital filter.

Regards,
Mark Bartlett

I've not seen or heard the D-1 Mark, it looks a very nice bit of kit though looking at the pics, it also looks like the I/V stage is full discrete which is good to see.
I'd actually be tempted by that if I didn't have the diy dac:eyebrows:


Well mate, not having much luck finding a source for the S2's:( I was told this guy was good but it seems he's now out of stock too http://www.efuns.net/diyer/

Yomanze
30-06-2008, 07:16
Picking up a stash of 80s 'stripe' TDA1541A for between £10 & £15 is a good way to go. I can't find the thread but some guys tested all of the TDA1541A variations and date codes. The earlier 'stripe' models were deemed to be better than 90s ones. Will post here if I find it.

Could buy 8 matched: http://www.ecdesigns.nl/kits/kits.html :)

Mike
30-06-2008, 14:38
Could these be genuine? :confused:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IC-TDA1541A-PHILIPS-DIP28-TDA1541-A-Integrated-Circuit_W0QQitemZ180248814088QQcmdZViewItem?_trksi d=p3286.m20.l1116

lurcher
30-06-2008, 15:00
The four I got from him were. How would you fake one?

Mike
30-06-2008, 15:29
I've no idea Nick. There was some talk about 'fakes' earlier that's all.

lurcher
30-06-2008, 16:13
I've no idea Nick. There was some talk about 'fakes' earlier that's all.

Yes, but they were the selected types, the S1 and S2 grade.

Mike
30-06-2008, 20:04
Ah... indeed it was.