Icon Audio Passive R?

[orbscure]

Is anybody here using (or has used) an Icon Audio Passive or Passive R pre-amp seen via the link below?

http://www.iconaudio.com/portfolio-item/passive-passive-pre-amp

Any comments/thoughts/criticism welcome :)

Cheers
Pete

[Sovereign]

Not heard it but I would be interested to know how it compares to your Croft Micro 25, let us know

[montesquieu]

Alps Blue passive pot with switches - not exactly a lot to it. Some amps like a passive pot, others prefer a TVC or active.

It will certainly be more transparent than your Croft (that's a given) though depending on the characteristics of the power amp you might lose drive or have other nasties thrown up by impedance mismatch. (Ie, the active has a roughly 50% chance of sounding better IMO).

If you've tried any cheap passive you'll know whether it works or not - the difference will only be in fine detail when it comes to implementation.

[Sovereign]

I use a TQ Colin Wonfor class A power amp. In the last six months I've gone form a Glasshouse passive to a Croft Epoch to an LDR. All have their merits, depending on what sea you like to float your boat in. I'm in the middle of building a reference Stereo Coffee dual Mono LDR. If I have the Dosh, then I plan to mod the heck out of the Croft and see which one I prefer.

[orbscure]

I have an Icon R on order via David/Radlett Audio so will be more than happy to report back. I did have an NVA P90sa which did a fantastic job with the large amount of electronic music I play, but I just found myself returning to my Croft Micro 25 Basic...

[montesquieu]

Can't see it will be any improvement on the NVA ... but keen to hear your impressions.

Might be worth trying a TVC?

[Sovereign]

Can't see it will be any improvement on the NVA ... but keen to hear your impressions.


Your right, I think teh NVA a a bit of a class leader. If passive is your thing then you absolutely have to try an LDR

[julesd68]

Is anybody here using (or has used) an Icon Audio Passive or Passive R pre-amp seen via the link below?

http://www.iconaudio.com/portfolio-item/passive-passive-pre-amp

Any comments/thoughts/criticism welcome :)

I bought an Icon passive second-hand some time ago. It didn't last much longer than a day in my system as I found it totally lacking in drive and dynamics... Whether this was down to some kind of mis-match, who knows. The build quality looked good but that's the best I can say about it.

[montesquieu]

Your right, I think teh NVA a a bit of a class leader. If passive is your thing then you absolutely have to try an LDR

Or a TVC ...

I will have a Music First MkII (balanced as well as unbalanced inputs and outputs, larger MkII transformers, remote control) for sale in the not too distant ....

[walpurgis]

Or a TVC ...

I will have a Music First MkII (balanced as well as unbalanced inputs and outputs, larger MkII transformers, remote control) for sale in the not too distant ....

That's a nice bit of kit. What's prompting you to part with it, did you get something that sounds better?

[montesquieu]

That's a nice bit of kit. What's prompting you to part with it, did you get something that sounds better?

Worked superbly with previous amps (and also with Petrat's EAR 534) but doesn't get along so well with the Radford STA100 which prefers an active pre.

[walpurgis]

Worked superbly with previous amps (and also with Petrat's EAR 534) but doesn't get along so well with the Radford STA100 which prefers an active pre.

Ah. I see.

Funny the Radford won't match. What suits it?

[montesquieu]

Ah. I see.

Funny the Radford won't match. What suits it?

Currently have Peter's Shindo Aurieges L on loan. It's heart-achingly good with the Radford.

[walpurgis]

Currently have Peter's Shindo Aurieges L on loan. It's heart-achingly good with the Radford.

I know of Shindo. But have no experience of their products. Sounds like a nice item.

[hifinutt]

Or a TVC ...

I will have a Music First MkII (balanced as well as unbalanced inputs and outputs, larger MkII transformers, remote control) for sale in the not too distant ....

these are so good for the money . I have had several and using a copper mark 2 at the moment which is very delicious
presumably this would be a copper too ?

[montesquieu]

these are so good for the money . I have had several and using a copper mark 2 at the moment which is very delicious
presumably this would be a copper too ?


Yes this is a copper one .. I did try the silver but preferred copper (as, indeed does Jonathan Billington of Music First - people asked him for a silver one so he made it, but he's very clear it's not an 'upgrade', just a different model that happens to cost more because of the material used).

[Ali Tait]

Alps Blue passive pot with switches - not exactly a lot to it. Some amps like a passive pot, others prefer a TVC or active.

It will certainly be more transparent than your Croft (that's a given) though depending on the characteristics of the power amp you might lose drive or have other nasties thrown up by impedance mismatch. (Ie, the active has a roughly 50% chance of sounding better IMO).

Alps Blue

If you've tried any cheap passive you'll know whether it works or not - the difference will only be in fine detail when it comes to implementation.

Alps Blue is nothing special IMHO, there are much better pots out there.

[Sovereign]

Alps Blue is nothing special IMHO, there are much better pots out there.

I currently use a TOCOS carbon pot which I find to have a really natural sound , really pleased
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/tocos-cosmos-rv24-stereo-potentiometer-p-9218.html

[Ali Tait]

Yep, have used them myself, just fitted one to the B1. Great sounding pots, far better than Alps.

[walpurgis]

I've owned ready made passives and also built some with stepped attenuators and pots. They may be OK for the money and can certainly sound better than some active pre-amps, but I've not heard one that remotely compares to a TVC unit.

[Reffc]

A good active is hard to beat imho. As Tom has pointed out, you have to be careful with partnering a passive. I prefer a good active to any TVC as well. The design is there for e reason, to buffer the signal ensuring low output impedance, to provide sufficient drive and to ensure appropriate output sensitivity/gain to match the power amp. The "straight wire" analogy is all very well as a target, but things like gain, output sensitivity and output impedance cannot be ignored in design, and a good active wont necessarily colour the sound if well designed.

As to the comments on pots, some are better than others (obviously) but the humble Blue Velvet is not only adequate (low noise, reasonable quality) it is still used in a great many so called "high end" amps. The penchant for massive stepped attenuators costing £££££££'s seems to be somewhat of an audio badge, "must have" or fashion. Some amps (including the humble Crofts) simply use inexpensive carbon wipe volume controls costing a few pounds. Personally, I like the Blue Velvet pot as a decent compromise between cost/quality.

[orbscure]

As way of a quick update, having been laid up with man flu for most of the week, I finally managed to pick up my Icon Passive R from work yesterday and plumbed her into my system last night:

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/2015-01-31100209_zps817b3ebb.jpg

Build quality of the main unit is very nice indeed and the remote is a heavyweight if simple three button block of usefulness.

I'm not sure how many hours I should give the passive to run in, but on an inistail listen, compared to my fully run in/tube rolled Croft, she does sound a bit thin and one dimensional at the moment, so a direct comparison is I think a tad unfair. More comment after a couple of weeks listening...

[Ali Tait]

A good active is hard to beat imho. As Tom has pointed out, you have to be careful with partnering a passive. I prefer a good active to any TVC as well. The design is there for e reason, to buffer the signal ensuring low output impedance, to provide sufficient drive and to ensure appropriate output sensitivity/gain to match the power amp. The "straight wire" analogy is all very well as a target, but things like gain, output sensitivity and output impedance cannot be ignored in design, and a good active wont necessarily colour the sound if well designed.

As to the comments on pots, some are better than others (obviously) but the humble Blue Velvet is not only adequate (low noise, reasonable quality) it is still used in a great many so called "high end" amps. The penchant for massive stepped attenuators costing £££££££'s seems to be somewhat of an audio badge, "must have" or fashion. Some amps (including the humble Crofts) simply use inexpensive carbon wipe volume controls costing a few pounds. Personally, I like the Blue Velvet pot as a decent compromise between cost/quality.

Have you tried a Tocos pot?

[Reffc]

No, never tried one (never come across one tbh).

However, after messing with various stepped attenuators and ALPs pots over the years, I have to say that a decent ALPs still seems like a decent VFM/quality option all things considered.

[pgarrish]

No, never tried one (never come across one tbh).

However, after messing with various stepped attenuators and ALPs pots over the years, I have to say that a decent ALPs still seems like a decent VFM/quality option all things considered.

I tried an Alps blue, then shunted, then a DACT and that was a big improvement - but it's £100 more than the Alps so it should be. I tried the dact pre ahead of a rotel integrated and with the rotel flat out to bypass its volume pot, there was a useful improvement from the dact.

Definitely matters which power amp though, and I found that shorter IC's were better with the passive (5m total from source to power amps was about it)

Anyone tried Penny and Giles sliders? As used in Neve mixing desks?

The icon is a nice pre but nowt special. Oddly, we found that it was better with the power for the remote applied than without.

[hifinutt]

Yes this is a copper one .. I did try the silver but preferred copper (as, indeed does Jonathan Billington of Music First - people asked him for a silver one so he made it, but he's very clear it's not an 'upgrade', just a different model that happens to cost more because of the material used).

yes having read the write up on tnt audio re silver or copper and having had both copper and silver , I do like the copper very much

[Ali Tait]

No, never tried one (never come across one tbh).

However, after messing with various stepped attenuators and ALPs pots over the years, I have to say that a decent ALPs still seems like a decent VFM/quality option all things considered.

Don't disagree, they make sense from a commercial point of view, just there is better out there at around the same cost.

Give a Tocos a go, Hi Fi Collective sell them.