View Full Version : Just another cable advice thread
There is a slight harshness in the sound of my current system, that continues to irritate me. I was recommended in another thread to replace the speaker cables (Chord Odyssey 2) with good copper ones and maybe to replace the ICs as well.
I'm not very experienced in hi-fi and living in an area, where testing cables is impossible. I've read here in the forum some cabling threads and thinking about Van Damme Blue series 6mm or Talk 3.
As for ICs I'm in a full darkness. Actually I'm not sure that I need to replace the Chord Cadenza interconnect and I think first to replace the speaker cables and after that to replace the ICs if needed.
So any advice would be helpful for me. Thanks in advance.
Hi Peter
You may well get a lot of different suggestions here. Personally I use Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cable and have no issues with any harshness. I used to but the problem turned out to be the interconnects I was using. What I would suggest is to try the NVA Super sound cord interconnects available on eBay and see if that solves your problem first. They are inexpensive and available on 30 day trial, if that doesn't sort the issue, send them back and only then think about changing the speaker cable.
I would thoroughly recommend the Klotz MC5000 interconnects.
Sovereign
03-01-2015, 13:13
Both advice given above is sound. I have both interconnects and both sound great.
The advantage about NVA is you are able to return for a no quibble refund, great service.
fatmarley
03-01-2015, 23:18
Flashback interconnects are very good value and sound great too - LINK (http://www.flashbacksales.co.uk/acatalog/phono-rca-phono-rca-cables.html)
...I used to but the problem turned out to be the interconnects I was using. ...
Thanks Martin, your advice seems wise, so I'll follow it.
Thank you all for your suggestions about ICs. I'll choose one of these to make some tests and see what will hapen.
Cheers!
hifinutt
04-01-2015, 18:29
used odyssey and epic for years with no issues with hardness , might be worth looking at another aspect of system
perhaps use a modest mains conditioner . they are available fairly cheap from maplins or the like
There is a slight harshness in the sound of my current system, that continues to irritate me. I was recommended in another thread to replace the speaker cables (Chord Odyssey 2) with good copper ones and maybe to replace the ICs as well.
I'm not very experienced in hi-fi and living in an area, where testing cables is impossible. I've read here in the forum some cabling threads and thinking about Van Damme Blue series 6mm or Talk 3.
As for ICs I'm in a full darkness. Actually I'm not sure that I need to replace the Chord Cadenza interconnect and I think first to replace the speaker cables and after that to replace the ICs if needed.
So any advice would be helpful for me. Thanks in advance.
Hi Peter, you could try the Chord Epic Twin speaker cable although I am not sure if this is where you are getting perceived harshness. Certainly IC's can allow harshness especially if they are bright sounding like my Chord Chameleon Vee 3.
As others have suggested I would certainly recommend the Klotz MC5000/ MS Audio cable used here by many on AOS, this is very natural sounding without any harshness with a very smooth but detailed capability with treble/HF.
I wouldn't be using cables to correct harshness, I would be using cables to squeeze the last drops of performance out of my system. Cables only go so far, and are not a solution for a problem.
If you have harshness, looking at your current system, I would be looking at amp & speaker synergy, but also I would experiment a lot with speaker placement and ensuring a nice "soft" room without exposed hard floors etc., which is free & will change the sound A LOT more than cables do.
Hard surfaces won't make the sound harsh if it wasn't harsh to begin with. It could be the amp clipping, I suppose. Depends if the sound is still harsh even at low volumes.
Hard surfaces won't make the sound harsh if it wasn't harsh to begin with. It could be the amp clipping, I suppose. Depends if the sound is still harsh even at low volumes.
Regardless of that, the current system sounds slightly harsh to the OP's ears, something that speaker placement or furnishings / treatment can solve much more effectively than cables. :)
Good point regarding listening volume though...
If you are experiencing harshness and its that audible, it's hardly likely that changing a cable will cure the harshness. It might mask it (along with other musical information) so cables are imho the last place to start when sorting out a system. As for recommending cable vendors and manufacturers, ALL of them are obliged to allow a sale or return under distance selling regs, not just the few mentioned so do your research and take your pick. There are many decent cables on the market.
How anyone though can give you good advice without first knowing what your system and room are is a little baffling...
Lets start with speakers...what are you using and where are they located? Is your room well furnished and carpeted?
Then what source/amps are you using? Perhaps these things might offer a few more clues so that any possible sources of harshness can be more readily identified
If you are experiencing harshness and its that audible, it's hardly likely that changing a cable will cure the harshness.
Worked for me which is why I suggested it - cost to try is at most the return postage. I don't think that adjusting speaker placement or other similar fiddling will work at all. Harsh sound always points to something fundemantal being wrong, broken or mismatched.
Worked for me which is why I suggested it - cost to try is at most the return postage. I don't think that adjusting speaker placement or other similar fiddling will work at all. Harsh sound always points to something fundemantal being wrong, broken or mismatched.
Exacterly this :);)
Thanks guys for your efforts to solve my problem. Good discussion. Although I'm a bit confused now. Too many probabilities that may cause the problem :) But of course it is worth to think for all of them.
Hard surfaces won't make the sound harsh if it wasn't harsh to begin with. It could be the amp clipping, I suppose. Depends if the sound is still harsh even at low volumes.
Regardless of that, the current system sounds slightly harsh to the OP's ears, something that speaker placement or furnishings / treatment can solve much more effectively than cables. :)
Good point regarding listening volume though...
There isn't noticeable harshness at low volumes.
How anyone though can give you good advice without first knowing what your system and room are is a little baffling...
Lets start with speakers...what are you using and where are they located? Is your room well furnished and carpeted?
Then what source/amps are you using? Perhaps these things might offer a few more clues so that any possible sources of harshness can be more readily identified
Well, the system is described in my signature. The speakers are on Atacama Nexus 6i stands, about 2,5m from each other, approx. 20cm from the rear wall, the listening position is at about 3,5m. The room is 32 sq.m., a rectangle, the system is along the longer wall. Usual furniture for living room, but no carpets, maybe it's worth to try with some. Concrete floor with laminate, brick walls.
Thanks guys for your efforts to solve my problem. Good discussion. Although I'm a bit confused now. Too many probabilities that may cause the problem :) But of course it is worth to think for all of them.
There isn't noticeable harshness at low volumes.
Well, the system is described in my signature. The speakers are on Atacama Nexus 6i stands, about 2,5m from each other, approx. 20cm from the rear wall, the listening position is at about 3,5m. The room is 32 sq.m., a rectangle, the system is along the longer wall. Usual furniture for living room, but no carpets, maybe it's worth to try with some. Concrete floor with laminate, brick walls.
A few things immediately jump out. You're using a room presumably with few soft furnishings (?) and no carpet so straight away, first reflections in the upper mid/HF region won't be effectively attenuated, causing a preceived lift in HF response and also out of phase which increases perceived harshness as it's a form of distortion.
You can soften things up considerably by placing a nice deep rug between the speakers and the listening position. No change of cable will allow the same results unless they're doing some serious attenuation ( and if so, they have no place in a hifi system ;) )
Those Proac speakers do have an enthusiastic treble (I'm familiar with that tweeter) and this doesn't help matters. The Studio range do need careful partnering to avoid being too forward imho. (I used to own some). Nothing in your kit I'd describe as overly forward or harsh sounding, but the speakers have a slight HF lift which will make itself known the higher you drive them, so whilst initially balanced sounding with good presence at lower volumes, screw the wick up, especially when close to hard untreated floors, and your ears may start to object the louder it goes. You could try firing the speakers straight (ie no toe in) to listen more off axis but this will also significantly drop mid range as well as bass, so usually isn't the answer. In your shoes, I'd be getting a rug down and trying to see of the addition of more soft furnishings (even more cushions!) helps. Untreated minimalist rooms might look cool but they destroy acoustics unless some thought is given to specific treatments.
No harshness at low volume but harsh when you crank it - that says underpowered amplifier to me. I've no experience with Proac but I have read that they need a bit of power. I know it is a 75 wpc amp but I'm guessing that is not enough to get the volume you want in your room without clipping the amp
If the tweeter and top end response of said tweeter are as Paul says (and he has owned said speakers) then the harshness will increase with volume as described irrespective of the amp power (75wpc should be quite sufficient).
That would surely mean that the speakers are not fit for purpose then if you can't put a few watts through them without them audibly distorting?
Speakers get blamed for a lot of ills when they are rarely the source of the problem
That would surely mean that the speakers are not fit for purpose then if you can't put a few watts through them without them audibly distorting?
Speakers get blamed for a lot of ills when they are rarely the source of the problem
I think folks may have to take a deep breath and step back to reconsider what actually has been suggested :lol:
My opinion based on experience is that the room is causing reflection problems resulting in more lift in the HF (out of phase at that) than the tweeter itself is responsible for. Due to hearing sensitivity increasing with volume, its entirely reasonable that when cranked up, this effect becomes objectionable. Many manufacturers use reasonable tweeters but deliberately engineer in an HF lift (or use "smiley face" tuning as it's more comically known). I have experience of these and they can be a little HF forward imho. In a properly treated room it wouldn't be quite as much of an issue. In a room with bare walls and floors it certainly would be.
But wouldn't that just make the sound bright or 'toppy'? I don't see how reflections and/or HF lift could make the sound harsh. Plus IME harshness is a product more of the mid-range than of the tweeter. So I'm still confused.
Possibly but without hearing for oneself, it's a circular argument. fwiw, out of phase treble will sound harsh because it's a form of distortion and combined with lift, it could be heard as harshness. Just raising the HF response to many people would form what they might describe as a harsh sound because it can become tiring. Yes, clipping can be the culprit, but I've used said speakers with lower output amps and have had no issues at reasonable volumes with clipping (in my case it was a 70wpc amp). Just trying to knock one thing off at a time. If softening up the listening room helps, then it's job done without having to jump on the hifi merry go round again.
Just raising the HF response to many people would form what they might describe as a harsh sound because it can become tiring.
For me, this is the crux of the issue; I have found that what one person calls 'harshness' another calls 'bright', 'toppy' or even 'gritty' etc.
IMHO, it's always difficult to describe the characteristics of the sound you hear. It's always very subjective and depends on the individual perceptions, experience etc. Further more, different people may use the same words for different things or use different words for the same thing. A wise man, I don't remember his name had been said: "Before talking with me, describe your terms first". The other difficulty is when you try to describe the sound on a language, which is not your native and this is the case with me. But this is the reality.
Nevertheless I think that the disccusion is very constructive and your opinions are very useful for me. Thank you very much, I really appreciate that.
I think to start with the room acoustics and if still unhappy will try with some cables replacement. Do you think it is wise?
As for the last option - replacing something in the system due to a bad synergy - I don't want to thing about this yet :)
Hi again guys,
Just to let you know what changes I've made last month. Now the improvement is significant - the slight harshness dissapeared and I'm happy enough. :)
First I put a carpet on the floor and additional cushions on the sofa. The result was a moderate improvement.
After that a replaced the Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cable with VD Blue Studio Grade 2x6mm - the thickest cable I have ever seen. For my surprice - a huge improvement.
And the last was to replace the Chord Cadenza Reference ICs with MS Audio / Klotz MC5000 (Thanks Brian). This brought additional smoothness in HF. The Cadenza is an excellent cable (and not very cheap), but sounds a bit bright/harsh to me, so I preffered the MS Audio / Klotz MC5000.
If I try to evaluate the changes impact rates, it will look something like that:
1. Carpet+cushions - 25% (I know that room acoustics is very important and further improvements can be made, but my wife said very very angry NO :) )
2. VD Blue - 50%
3. MS Audio / Klotz MC5000 - 25%
Thanks to all for the advices.
Cheers
Peter
fatmarley
03-03-2015, 17:55
Some people find the Van damme cable a touch too soft, so that would probably be why you noticed such a big difference. I only have very short runs, so just use flexible mains cable but If I needed longer lengths I'd probably try the cheap Beldon 5000UE speaker cable.
icehockeyboy
12-03-2015, 13:22
Some people find the Van damme cable a touch too soft, so that would probably be why you noticed such a big difference. I only have very short runs, so just use flexible mains cable but If I needed longer lengths I'd probably try the cheap Beldon 5000UE speaker cable.
I swapped my TQ Black speaker cable for the same VD Blue mentioned here, and I don't find them soft at all.
And that from a guy who has misused his lug holes for many a year! 😜
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.