View Full Version : Social Class
southall-1998
21-12-2014, 21:08
Do some of you believe in it?
How do you really distinguish a working class and middle class?
Never mind the upper class :D
S.
Working class - eats dinner while watching the telly
Middle class - sits down at a table and eats
Upper class - eat dinner watching the telly but with a tray and in a bigger house
At least in my experience. Although my granddad was a docker and he would always sit at the table to eat but that was dying out even when I was a kid
walpurgis
21-12-2014, 21:23
There are only three types of people. Lowlife scumbags. Regular folks who took the trouble to educate themselves and work. Then you have those with 'big ideas', who think it's their right to run things (a lot of whom are just jumped up arseholes).
Ninanina
21-12-2014, 21:29
There are only three types of people. Lowlife scumbags. Regular folks who took the trouble to educate themselves and work. Then you have those with 'big ideas', who think it's their right to run things (a lot of whom are just jumped up arseholes).
So that makes me a "Regular" person...I'm fairly well educated AFTER school and always worked... I unfortunatley know a couple of "Lowlife Scumbags" but have nothing to do with them, thank goodness...and I don't think I know any "jumped up arseholes" ;)
southall-1998
21-12-2014, 21:31
Its simple distinguishing a scum/s. Just simply turn the TV on, switch to ITV at 5am and watch :D
S.
The old class system
Working class - Do most of the living and dying and live in a house ;)
Middle class - Make people Do most of the living and dying and have a dining room :(
Upper class - Laugh at people Doing most of the living and dying and eat in a room the size of a house :lol:
..Might actually still be that way? .....most folk want a bit from each table I think.:eek:
New class system.
Those that have, demand and get more.
Those that haven't, ask for more and get paid off.
...............According to Martin, I must have been middle class as we always eat at a table :D
Wakefield Turntables
21-12-2014, 21:43
What happens if your rich and live in a small house? Warren buffett being a good example.
Its simple distinguishing a scum/s. Just simply turn the TV on, switch to ITV at 5am and watch :D
S.
ha ha i thought i was the only one up who watched that whilst getting ready for work.
I detest ‘labels’, so find the idea of the ‘Working Class’, through to ‘Upper Class’ nomenclature rather vulgar.
However, if you believe in the class system, one thing for me that ultimately defines ‘class’ is education - and that’s not just academic education, but how much you are aware of the world around you, on various levels. Travelling extensively worldwide, in that respect, helps.
Being well-spoken, confident, having good manners, valuing traditions/history and being unwilling to conform to ‘the norm’, trends etc, as dictated by commercial society, and ‘plough one’s own furrow’, as it were, are all signs, IMO, of someone with a bit of ‘class’ :)
Marco.
I detest ‘labels’, so find the idea of the ‘Working Class’, through to ‘Upper Class’ nomenclature rather vulgar.
However, if you believe in the class system, one thing for me that ultimately defines ‘class’ is education - and that’s not just academic education, but how much you are aware of the world around you, on various levels. Travelling extensively worldwide, in that respect, helps.
Being well-spoken, confident, having good manners, valuing traditions/history and being unwilling to conform to ‘the norm’, trends etc, as dictated by commercial society, and ‘plough one’s own furrow’, as it were, are all signs, IMO, of someone with a bit of ‘class’ :)
Marco.
Jeewhiz, I must be royalty:eyebrows:
Oh, it's easy.
I am probably working upper middle class. :eek:
Jeewhiz, I must be royalty:eyebrows:
Lol, but of course. One thing that most certainly doesn't define social class is money!
One of the most vulgar things ever is the nouveau riche, and what they stand for. Just look at the antics of some footballers or lottery winners……. :doh: :rolleyes:
Marco.
walpurgis
21-12-2014, 23:22
One can be broke, but still a classy person. I've proved it personally, many a time. ;)
Absolutely.
Anyone who equates class with money or possessions clearly hasn’t got any. The worst, IME, are the keeping up with the Jones’ types (aspiring middle or upper/middle classes) - some of their antics, and what they consider as important in life, is highly comical!
Marco.
Ok, just off the top of my head:
Class:
Losing (or winning for that matter) with dignity;
Not replying to an insult;
Paying without complaint;
Not using foul language;
Good manners, especially towards women; politeness and courtesy;
Not putting on a false smile - they are so f (oops) obvious;
Letting your deeds and not your words raise you up;
Wearing clean clothes;
Never making others uncomfortable;
Standing up straight.
What do you score out of 10?
Firebottle
22-12-2014, 08:16
9/10
Anyone with a hole in the middle of their records is middle class.
:cool::cool::cool: Alan
(oops - slipped a bit there)
What happens if your rich and live in a small house? Warren buffett being a good example.
He's American. They don't have the class system. There you are either old money, new money or nobody.
‘Old money’ in America? Sounds like an oxymoron!
Anyway, have any of you watched the Grayson Perry series ‘In the Best Possible Taste’, outlined here: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/in-the-best-possible-taste-grayson-perry/articles/all/grayson-perry-qa
It’s most enlightening, and I think he gets to the heart of the class system. One of the funniest things was listening to a middle-class wannabe state that owning a tagine was a qualification for being middle-class! :mental:
That’s the sort of superficial, brain-dead buffoonery these social-climbing idiots come up with!! :lol:
Marco.
I'm afraid I have no need to own a tagine. If I want to eat Moroccan, I simply get my pilot to fly me down to Tangiers, where I know of a fabulous little place that serves up an excellent tagine and cous-cous! :lol:
Gordon Steadman
22-12-2014, 09:26
Sorry its a bit long but I grabbed this from one of the rags a while ago.
Absolutely Proper Posh (APP)
The ones who look down on the royal family as jumpedup inbred parvenus. A dying breed but still refusing to drop off anything like as quickly as its critics would like. This is because of its ability to hang on to most of its land and money by a) using clever UMP lawyers-, b) assimilating genetically by sleeping with good-looking rich people of any class; and c) being generally rather charming to every single class other than chippy AMs. Fond of Tony Benn (conversation piece): of vaguely forgetting how many rooms they have: unfond of the Tory party since around 1985, and of people who point out awkward truths, such as the fact that it might be a nice idea to pay tax honestly.
Quick class check.- look at the clothes they wear when they go shooting. The Yorkshire term ‘dag’ means the matted dung and wool that drapes from the back of a dirty sheep. Ideally, APPs have had three or four dags attached to the back of their Barbours since around the time of the Suez crisis.
Upper-Middle Proper (UMP)
Complex mix of the sainted and the damned. Second daughter of the first son, or first son of the second daughter, or whatever; and the formative years are spent with what they fondly think of as the middle classes, even though the trust fund has allowed them not to worry that much, at all, ever, about money. Can go to the good or the bad. Suffused with guilt about background, and deal with this by either ignoring guilt and making shameless amounts of money via contacts made by friends, or accepting guilt and making amends in the Third. World via contacts made by friends.
Quick class check.- floppy hair.
Baby Grand (BG)
An entirely new class, composed of what we might call credible celebrities. Everyone sort of wants to know them. They’re famous, or rich, or important, and we have reason to believe they deserve it, and it might rub off, and it might be good to have them pop across to our table. Tony Blair. Nigella Lawson. Jeremy Paxman. Richard Rogers. Madonna. Tracey Emin.
Quick class check: uniquely, none of the people in this class will ever sleep with each other.
Upper-Middle Fingernails (UMF)
Those who have recently jumped up or jumped down, and are just hanging oil in there. So the grouping covers those who made a bit in the Eighties, converted a house in Battersea and paid fat school fees only to watch one son hit drugs and one daughter hit jail, and then lost a fortune on a dotcom. It covers the third UMP son, disaffected and disinherited and taking pride in duming down and speaking Estuarine English in a gastropub, unsure whether to move up or down. And it covers those still trying to get all the UMP codes right and wondering why the house parties they’ve spent years waiting to get to are full of racing-drivers and porn stars.
Quick class check: snottiest of the upper classes.
Middle-Middle (MM)
What used to be referred to as ‘Middle England’but should now more usefully be called’Scared England’. A huge constituency, again. It reads the Daily Mail each day and learns of more reasons to be scared. It has so far failed to understand that the vast majority of stories of which it is scared are written and edited by members of classes one or two or three or even four levels above them, with the express intention of scaring them. They get the taste stuff wrong too often, but taste doesn’t actually worry them as much as security. The good ones get out, sometimes dropping one set down, thereby undoing the aspirations of a generation and becoming consequently much, happier.
Class check: the queue for Monet’s Lilies exhibition.. Have been known to spray Glade following sex.
Lower-Middle-Lucky “(LML)
Born in a council house - but in a better area. Born with a brain, and with parents unashamed to have books in the house. A fine class in general, and not massively bothered by snobbery. Yet.
Quick class check: like the AMs they buy the Guardian and Independent, but they actually read them,’ even the foreign bits.
Lower-Middle-Unlucky (LMU)
As above but born in the wrong areas, with miserable schools they couldn’t leave quickly enough. Taught to look down upon the poor with scorn and trepidation, because it suits governments and Sun writers to encourage ‘poor white syndrome’, in which the lowest classes must always have someone underneath them to hate.
Quick class check: the characters from EastEnders.
The Poor (P)
The rest. The people we ignore wherever possible in case we get reminded of rampant inequality; also, those we vilify for reacting in a violent fashion when we dump a new bunch of asylumseekers or paedophiles in their midst because Islington was, apparently, full. Quick class check: life still nasty, brutish and short.
I'm afraid I have no need to own a tagine. If I want to eat Moroccan, I simply get my pilot to fly me down to Tangiers, where I know of a fabulous little place that serves up an excellent tagine and cous-cous! :lol:
Quite right, old boy. Then have him swing over to Lebanon and pick up some Chateau Musar to accompany Sunday lunch. The peasants most likely think a tagine is a pot to piss in! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
22-12-2014, 10:12
All men are created equal, thus no-one is your superior.
Ive got a tagine and i used to use it a lot. and not for morrocan dishes. just makes great hotpot
This worked 50 years ago, and still does today:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00hhrwl
Ive got a tagine and i used to use it a lot. and not for morrocan dishes. just makes great hotpot
You are defo middle-class, then… Wear that tagine badge with pride! :D
Marco.
The great thing about the class system is that almost everyone is happy to be the class that they are. Tell a middle-class person they are working class they will be insulted. Tell a working-class person they are actually middle class and they will deny it.
(I had to ask what a Tagine is. Never heard the word before).
awkwardbydesign
22-12-2014, 13:02
Interesting to see peoples' prejudices.
I started in a working class family, became underclass (homeless), then classless, working class again, middle class (own business) then OAP.
You get bigots in all the classes, sadly.
I don't think it has any relation to the work you do or don't do. Lots of working class are unemployed or retired they are still working class. Lots of upper class have never worked (not in any meaningful sense of the word, anyway).
Most of the upper class and working class folk I have met have been pretty happy, well adjusted people who take as they find; but some of the middle class types were awful - aspirational snobs full of themselves and their own imagined importance.
Hi Richard,
Interesting to see peoples' prejudices.
I started in a working class family, became underclass (homeless), then classless, working class again, middle class (own business) then OAP.
You see, for me, possessions and/or your employment status don't alter your class. For example, an upper-class person brought up as such, and then falling on hard times and becoming destitute and homeless (for whatever reason), would IMO still be upper-class, simply because, inherently that's what they are, through blood/heritage and upbringing.
Similarly, you started off as a working class person, and so regardless of your subesquent life circumstances (even when you become homeless or when you owned a business), I'd argue that you remained as working class, the same as the upper-class person, in my example, remained as such when they became homeless.
This is all subjective, of course, but for me, your inherent 'class' is something you are born into, and determined by many factors totally divorced from your employment status or bank balance.
Marco.
Most of the upper class and working class folk I have met have been pretty happy, well adjusted people who take as they find; but some of the middle class types were awful - aspirational snobs full of themselves and their own imagined importance.
Indeed, and the latter are, IMO, utterly detestable!
My message? Be happy and contented with who you are, and be done with it. Essentially, learn to be comfortable in your own skin.
Marco.
The Black Adder
22-12-2014, 14:39
It's almost as complicated as the rules of Cricket.
The working classes
The real working class live within their means, have no ideals apart from what they know and have been brought up to know. Possessions are what they need to live and survive and not what allude them.
Pseudo working class
But a lot of the time these days working class generally 'think' they are middle class by buying those middle class ideals like fast cars and gold top railings. This is were the cuffs don't fit, for example a Porsche outside a 3-bed semi in Dewsbury and a fountain in the front garden. They brag about what they have to practically anyone who will listen. They know that the upper class is way too far out of reach so they live to mix with the middle class to make themselves feel important.
The middle class
The middle class (the real middle class) have possessions to boot so they don't brag as much (they don't need to) but fall in to a quiet class that can sometimes come across to the working class a bit smug (this becomes an asperational 'attitude' that the 2nd class working class want to aspire to) They can also live to mix with (although limited) the upper class to make themselves feel important.
The social climbing middle class
This section should only be filled in if you are a celebrity or a WAG. Nothing much to say about this class apart from that they are generally shallow creatures, they live for the ideal of being rich and flaunting it..... yep, that's about it. Quite lonely people really.
The upper class
The upper class therefore are a bit of an oddity but in a quintessential way, they have everything and more than both lower stated classes but they don't mix in the same circles as the middle class, they have more affection for the real working classes because they know where they are and know that things will be done by employing them in estates etc.
They do sometimes mix with the middle classes but sometimes keep them at arms length.
In the end of course it really doesn't matter what class you are, life throws many things at each and everyone of us so the best thing to do is just live it.... And remember, nobody's looking or that interested.
It's almost as complicated as the rules of Cricket.
The working classes
The real working class live within their means, have no ideals apart from what they know and have been brought up to know. Possessions are what they need to live and survive and not what allude them.
Pseudo working class
But a lot of the time these days working class generally 'think' they are middle class by buying those middle class ideals like fast cars and gold top railings. This is were the cuffs don't fit, for example a Porsche outside a 3-bed semi in Dewsbury and a fountain in the front garden. They brag about what they have to practically anyone who will listen. They know that the upper class is way too far out of reach so they live to mix with the middle class to make themselves feel important.
The middle class
The middle class (the real middle class) have possessions to boot so they don't brag as much (they don't need to) but fall in to a quiet class that can sometimes come across to the working class a bit smug (this becomes an asperational 'attitude' that the 2nd class working class want to aspire to) They can also live to mix with (although limited) the upper class to make themselves feel important.
The social climbing middle class
This section should only be filled in if you are a celebrity or a WAG. Nothing much to say about this class apart from that they are generally shallow creatures, they live for the ideal of being rich and flaunting it..... yep, that's about it. Quite lonely people really.
The upper class
The upper class therefore are a bit of an oddity but in a quintessential way, they have everything and more than both lower stated classes but they don't mix in the same circles are the middle class, they have more affection for the real working classes because they know where they are by employing them in estates etc.
They do sometimes mix with the middle classes but keep them at arms length.
In the end of course it really doesn't matter what class you are, life throws many things at each and everyone of us so the best thing to do is just live it.... And remember, nobody's looking or that interested.
An excellent synopsis, Joe :)
Marco.
Gordon Steadman
22-12-2014, 16:05
I'm just this guy - you know.
BTH K10A
25-12-2014, 20:24
According to the BBC traditional British social divisions of upper, middle and working class seem out of date in the 21st Century, no longer reflecting modern occupations or lifestyles so theyhave come up with a test to see what class you are.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22000973
Apparently I am in the elite group
Then you are my lord and master as apparently I am in the lowest of the low group:doh:
Wakefield Turntables
25-12-2014, 21:13
I got in the Elite group as well. I think its a load of bullhocks personally. ;)
According to the BBC traditional British social divisions of upper, middle and working class seem out of date in the 21st Century, no longer reflecting modern occupations or lifestyles so theyhave come up with a test to see what class you are.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22000973
Apparently I am in the elite group
Ditto - wot a load of bollox. Like I said before, I hate labels! :rolleyes:
Marco.
BTH K10A
26-12-2014, 00:36
Ditto - wot a load of bollox. Like I said before, I hate labels! :rolleyes:
Marco.
Are the prolitariat rebelling?
One can't have that it's not good form old chap, who would serve one's gin & tonic
Apparently I'm a 'New affluent worker' (bit strange as I'm retired)
I am in the New Affluent group too:
15%
Average age
44
This class group is sociable, has lots of cultural interests and sits in the middle of all the groups in terms of wealth:
This youthful class group is economically secure, without being well off
These people have high scores for emerging culture, such as watching sport, going to gigs and using social media
They do not tend to participate in highbrow culture, such as classical music and theatre
People in this group are likely to come from a working class background
Many people in this group live in old manufacturing centres of the UK in the Midlands and North West
I'm 46 and live in the Midlands/North West so that is quite accurate. I'm also economically secure without being well off.
Yu lot in the Elite group, I'm sure if you had ticked 'yes' for 'listen to rap and hip-hop' you would be re-classified in an instant ;)
Actually the biggest surprise from this is to learn that 'The UK's leading Universities' have Sociology departments....
Gordon Steadman
26-12-2014, 09:48
Traditional working class. My dad would be proud.
jandl100
26-12-2014, 09:50
Elite, that's me. :D
On a more serious note, the social class thing is as strong as ever in Britain, I think.
I suspect it's very common in cultures worldwide, I've certainly seen it across Europe and in the US. It's given different names, I'm sure, but it's the same thing really. It's to do with the way the human social animal perceives itself and others and wishes to be perceived. As Marco has said, it's as much to do with family background as personal attainment.
As Marco has said, it's as much to do with family background as personal attainment.
Yup, but I just find the whole concept rather pretentious.
For example, through my business, I know quite a few members of 'the gentry’, who would thus be labelled as ‘upper class’, but they would NEVER, EVER, refer to themselves as such, simply because it’d be considered as vulgar, much the same as I’d never refer to myself as ‘middle class’, ‘elite’ (judging by the criteria of the survey Andy posted), or whatever label I may qualify for, based on my personal circumstances.
I’d far rather just be known as a big daftee, and be done with it! :D
Marco.
Gordon Steadman
26-12-2014, 11:22
The definitions are daft anyway. They seem to be based more on financial status than anything else.
My family is firmly in 'the middle classes' by any normal definition. However, having tried to climb a bit and make loadsa money, twitface here has managed, by losing the lot, to slide down the scale a bit and ended up with less dosh than he started with.
We are now secure but not exactly loaded. Since when did the 'working class' go to the opera, listen to jazz and the classics and hobnob with scientists, teachers and other 'professionals'???? I thought they were too busy eating gruel and mending their hobnail boots to have time for such esoteric stuff.
Here in France, in the countryside, there is no obvious class difference. Everyone is treated according to who they are not what they are. The richest farmer - our best friend here - is treated the same as everyone else and he is the same in his dealings. The mayor is just one of the guys and why should he be anything else.
I guess bollocks sums it all up nicely.
What you label yourself as is unimportant, it's what others label you that can affect outcomes.
The survey is more about identifying different socio-economic groups. The British class system isn't the same thing, really, as economics don't come into it. You won't change from working class to upper class because you won 80 million on the lottery.
You won't change from working class to upper class because you won 80 million on the lottery.
Exactly!
As for how others label you, well that’s up to them. My view is ‘I am who I am, take it or leave it’. Furthermore, if I sense that I’m being judged in that way (by being labelled), it turns me off and I’d be unlikely to mix with people who think that way.
What I dislike most are the ‘aspirational types’, who judge ’status’, based on money and possessions. Such people are usually very insecure about themselves and care greatly what others think of them, and indeed live their lives in a way where ‘making the right impression’ is considered as being of paramount importance.
I find that there is one thing that ‘security' brings (both financial and in terms of one's self-esteem), and that’s CONFIDENCE - a ‘couldn’t care less’ attitude/assuredness, which allows one to RELAX and simply be one’s self, in all situations. The ability to do that, for me, defines class much more than the contents of any surveys.
Marco.
The definitions are daft anyway.
That encapsulates it. Words mean whatever you want them to mean - sounds mad? Yeah well that's my (and Lewis Carrol's) reality.
Class is better defined by the manner in which one conducts themselves in public and when interacting with others. In general two classes of people exist in life, "givers" and "takers", and I don't exclusively mean in a material context but more an empathic one. To put it simply, there are those who care about others and those who only care about themselves. Of course these two categories exist in every demographic, the wealth thing is incidental.
Class is better defined by the manner in which one conducts themselves in public and when interacting with others. In general two classes of people exist in life, "givers" and "takers", and I don't exclusively mean in a material context but more an empathic one. To put it simply, there are those who care about others and those who only care about themselves. Of course these two categories exist in every demographic, the wealth thing is incidental.
A bit too black and white for me. It is only when you put someone in a serious stress or pressure situation that you will see their true colours. Will they sacrifice their own interests for someone else then? Most people won't including me and most of you and that's not because we are bad people but because we tend to make decisions, as a species, based on perceived self-interest. The more the pressure, the more there is at stake, the less we are likely to sacrifice. It is not that we don't care or empathise with other people but we have to draw a practical line somewhere. In other words most people, faced with the desperate choice, will not throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of the rest of the platoon.Now in a normal social situation you get boors and assholes, yes, and they can be from any background/ class. But a normal social situation is no measure for assessing a man's true worth.
BTH K10A
26-12-2014, 14:18
QTpkN4Vuh6w
That vid was posted earlier by Shane. Do pay attention there at the back, old boy! ;)
I also think another thing to bear in mind, in terms of this discussion. is how contented you are with your ‘lot in life’ and who you are as a person, as in you’ve reached a stage now where you’re ‘done’, and so have nothing else left to ‘prove’ to anyone. In a nutshell, it's when you’ve achieved an almost total state of contentedness in your life. That’s a nice feeling :)
Continually worrying about what others think (in terms of what ’status’ you’ve attained) at the expense of your own happiness (and that of those closest to you) is not much fun at all - and neither, for that matter, is getting your work/life balance way out of synch….
We all work far too long hours in this country trying to pay for superficial ‘stuff’ that’s completely unnecessary, as a result of being victims of peer pressure. My advice? Rebel against all that commercial nonsense, cut it out completely, refuse to ‘conform to the norm’ and simplify your life. Trust me, you’ll be much happier for it!!
:exactly:
Marco.
BTH K10A
26-12-2014, 17:50
That vid was posted earlier by Shane. Do pay attention there at the back, old boy! ;)
.
Ah but I was, but your attentions span was too short as only the first part is the same. :D
Lol… I’ve seen that sketch so many times now that I rarely watch it all the way through!
Marco.
Gordon Steadman
26-12-2014, 18:38
Lol… I’ve seen that sketch so many times now that I rarely watch it all the way through!
Marco.
try this one
0JSahEDRjvw
Haselsh1
27-12-2014, 12:49
There are only three types of people. Lowlife scumbags. Regular folks who took the trouble to educate themselves and work. Then you have those with 'big ideas', who think it's their right to run things (a lot of whom are just jumped up arseholes).
+1 from me
awkwardbydesign
27-12-2014, 15:58
When I became a driving instructor, running my own business (me!), I became middle class. How do I know? Because I was suddenly qualified to countersign someone's passport application. :lol:
Apparently I'm also a responsible adult. :eek:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.