Tannoy Magic!

[Frankyc2003]

Good morning everyone,

I have a confession to make. I am totally addicted to tinkering with my system. i am what we would call a 'Box swapper'!
I have tried and tried to restrain myself, to no avail. there is always another urge that I need to scratch! And the sound of Tannoy is one of these.
When a few months ago I went to pick up Tom's Lenco (Montesquieu), he treated me to a lovely little listening session with his newly arrived Radfod STA100 and the mighty Canterbury cabs with HPDs. What a wonderful experience that was!
So much so, it never left my mind actually... That's the degree of addiction I am suffering from...:rolleyes:

fast forward a few months later...

These beauties have landed...

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz275/frankyc2003/1d26987b-a397-4bd7-87f6-f0cb9a604e9a_zps35f2f053.jpg (http://s835.photobucket.com/user/frankyc2003/media/1d26987b-a397-4bd7-87f6-f0cb9a604e9a_zps35f2f053.jpg.html)

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz275/frankyc2003/7a40551a-d1c3-4428-9c0b-4ba188cbd222_zpse08a904b.jpg (http://s835.photobucket.com/user/frankyc2003/media/7a40551a-d1c3-4428-9c0b-4ba188cbd222_zpse08a904b.jpg.html)

Well, Ok, I have slightly overdone it on the glow... But that's just a true representation of how it feels to be listening to these this very morning.:eyebrows:

As said previously, I have been accustomed to the sound of horn loaded fostex for a wee while now, and it was glorious! But when these 2 gold entered the room, something definitely changed.
For the best!

So to match the golden mood of the morning, let's play some glorious folk from way back! 1977 here I come...
http://eil.com/images/main/Steeleye-Span-Time-Span-544111.jpg

as I listen to 'My Johnny Was A Shoemaker', I suddenly realised what that 'Midrange heaven' means. The only thing I could say is that the system is now so capable of reproducing the delicate harmonies of the human voice, that I gos startled when this very 'Lo-Fi' duo kicks in. The presence is truly unbelievable. Depth, air and solid 3d positioning of ach performer in space contribute all to create a fantastic 'illusion'.
On the other track, electric guitars simply miked, drum kits and violins all shine with their true colours (or at least it feels), something that never did happen before.

As you probably noticed, there is a couple of plugs on the front plate to 'taylor' treble to your room. These speakers were actually used in studio environment. They date back from 1990 according to the seller. They were used in a West london broadcast studio. And by the look of it, they were never abused (used?!). the veneer is almost perfect. The surrounds are totally intact and the better pleated variant. The drivers according to the tannoy forum are 3149. So, OK, we are not dealing with alnico magnets here, no real 'Gold' or 'Silver' from the glorious 60's. But these are still incredible DC tannoy speakers for me! I have coupled them with my super tweeters to just add that little extrta 'Spark'. The crossovers are all genuine Tannoy items, untouched since the factory. Obviously, you already got it here, I am already fishing for tweaks! I am so bad!:doh: (anyone for circuit diagrams?)

Onto something a little more serious.
http://www.rauhvinyl.com/bilder/gross/2059.jpg
When you are dealing with Valve and tubes and hi-efficiency speakers, there is always potential bias towards the softer edge of sounds. Honey, sweet, soft, gooey, treacle, etc (you can go as far as you want if you hate the sound, the adjectives won't be harsh enough!)...
So I thought I needed to introduce some 'darkness' in this session. Shoenberg piece 'Verklärte Nacht' op. 4.
The Berliner Philarmoniker from 1974 with Karajan at it's helm does exactly that.
Layers of cold, deep dark strings start wrapping the floor of the room. I suddenly feel the need to put on a jumper. ;)
At the height of the crescendo, the bass is so deep and powerful that I am shaken to the core. But certanly not in a 'flappy' way. It is authoritative and taut! The 300B never cease to amaze me! the dive deeper and harder than my mighty 845!
The guys at Audion in the 90's certainly knew what they were doing when designing the Silver Night. I am now obviously very curious to listen to a newer model. I told you, I am a 'Box Swapper' didn't it?

To finish the morning in style and stay in the 70's, here comes
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/Bob_Dylan_and_The_Band_-_Before_the_Flood.jpg
It's a lovely 180g re-edition of the classic live from Dylan and The Band. Dylan and Robertson having it on stage in LA basically. Again the solid positioning of everyone makes for such a believable sonic image.
Electronic keyboard, fiddle, and bass, all beautifully rendered without colouring (something you kind of get used to while listening to horns, which by the way i's clearly a matter of taste).

So if I was to summarize my newly formed impressions on these tannoy LGM, I would say that powered by 300B they really major on neutrality and imaging. Having played a little with speaker cables, I would say that with some simpler cables (here I mean the white stuff from B&Q) they could maybe sound a little shouty, but in comparison with the LAT SA1000, a true balance is re-established. So, the usual caveat apply, always make sure you look after every single link in the system before making strong assumptions and DO trust your ears!

Here we have it! I am chuffed to bits with my new speakers. And the legend is true, 300B and Tannoy DC's are a match made in heaven!

:D:D:D

[Macca]

They look 'proper' and they obviously sound it too :)

[Reffc]

Congratulations on your new arrivals Francois and I hope that you derive many years of listening pleasure from them :thumbsup:

[Frankyc2003]

Cheers guys!

:D

[Marco]

Welcome to the Tannoy club, François! Great review.

I can well imagine you’ve got a superb sound going on there, as the 300Bs will be a nicely synergistic match with the LGMs. You should be able to hear right into the mix with those little monitors, with every subtle nuance and inflection in the music being laid bare for inspection, but rendered in a non-fatiguing musical way - that’s the Tannoy DC magic!

What’s the rest of your system? :)

Marco.

[dantheman91]

Currently using DC1000's and they do great things and somethings not so great but the "MID RANGE" magic is their saying that they prefer an analogue source that where they come alive :)

Quite happy with them for now anyway till i want to try might mighty horns again :eyebrows:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Welcome to the Tannoy club! I must admit to loving 'mi Tannoys.

[Frankyc2003]

Thanks Marco,

Well, the system is pretty simple.
A modified Lenco GL75 with heavier platter and upgraded bearing, an Audio Note Arm One, an Audio Note IQ3 cartridge going into a Tellurium Q Iridium phonostage fed to the Silver Night with some Golden Lion 300B, via some silver litz ICs and some LAT SA1000 finally going into the Tannoy LMGs and the Bespoke supertweeters. That's it. Keep it simple and trust your ears!:)
;)

I have to say, I am very impressed by the combination of all these elements. It took me a long time and a lot of research to get to that level of naturalness and immediacy, without being harsh and fatiguing. but as it is always highlighted on AOS, it is all about the synergy. Find that 'sweet spot' where all components are happy together, and sit back and relax!

Well having said that I have already started tinkering with the front plugs to se how the treble can be bettered in my room... :eyebrows:

[Puffin]

I have never heard any Tannoy's in a domestic environment, but from all the positive comments about them I think it has to be on my 10 things to do before I die
:D

[montesquieu]

Welcome to the club!

If you want to discuss tweaks for these, he's too modest to say but Paul above (ReffC) Da Man for Tannoy cab and crossover optimisation.

[Andrei]

Nice one Francois. What do those little knobs on the bottom front of the speakers do?

[Frankyc2003]

Welcome to the club!

If you want to discuss tweaks for these, he's too modest to say but Paul above (ReffC) Da Man for Tannoy cab and crossover optimisation.

Thanks Tom, that's duly noted! :)

[Frankyc2003]

Nice one Francois. What do those little knobs on the bottom front of the speakers do?

Cheers Andrei, they control 'TREBLE ENERGY' and roll off. As far as I know they help you making sure the speakers are in tune to your room. I am still playing with them, so hopefully a little more on these very soon.
:cool:

[The Black Adder]

They are indeed lovely speakers... Some people 'just don't get the magic' which is very sad.

Congrats and enjoy.

[Ninanina]

The only Tannoy's I've had experience of was a pair of rather expensive System 15 DMT's... and they completely under whelmed me to be honest, which is why I've never tried any other Tannoy's...;)

[walpurgis]

The only Tannoy's I've had experience of was a pair of rather expensive System 15 DMT's... and they completely under whelmed me to be honest, which is why I've never tried any other Tannoy's...;)

Those are not classic 'pepperpot' type Tannoys, but DMTs I have heard have been OK. My mate has a pair of DMT10s that sound extremely good.

The DMT15s you heard may not have been in an ideal situation. What was driving them and what was the listening environment like?

[Ninanina]

The DMT15s you heard may not have been in an ideal situation. What was driving them and what was the listening environment like?

I think I ran them with about 1.5w of set amp at the time and possibly a Chinese valve amp at the time, it's a long time ago...so can't be sure about that.. I may have also run them with Quad II's with a Croft Vitale pre... I just can't quite remember... they were placed either side of a bay window in a good size Victorian house front room...

[montesquieu]

I think I ran them with about 1.5w of set amp at the time and possibly a Chinese valve amp at the time, it's a long time ago...so can't be sure about that.. I may have also run them with Quad II's with a Croft Vitale pre... I just can't quite remember... they were placed either side of a bay window in a good size Victorian house front room...

Seriously? With Tannoys you have to ignore the sensitivity figures (which aren't that great anyway with DMTs) and focus on power and damping factor. Run any dual concentric tannoy from an early 70s HPD onwards with less than 40-50w (70-100w is generally better) and while it may sound ok-ish (and better than a lot if other speakers) you'll never get anything close to the best out of it. (With monitor golds, you'll get away with 20w). In all cases it needs to be push pull with a decent damping factor.

[walpurgis]

Not my experience. I've had numerous Tannoys and my 15 watt EL34 valve monoblocks always have a proper grip on them, so do my 25 watt Class A solid state power amps. Currently running a pair of Cheviot II speakers and driving them to high levels now and then with no shortfall in performance.

[Reffc]

Seriously? With Tannoys you have to ignore the sensitivity figures (which aren't that great anyway with DMTs) and focus on power and damping factor. Run any dual concentric tannoy from an early 70s HPD onwards with less than 40-50w (70-100w is generally better) and while it may sound ok-ish (and better than a lot if other speakers) you'll never get anything close to the best out of it. (With monitor golds, you'll get away with 20w). In all cases it needs to be push pull with a decent damping factor.

+1 Nail on head Tom. SE amps and HPDs dont make a decent match, most especially low powered ones using little or no feedback. HPDs require grip and control, and giving them that transforms the sound. Why some people persist in using low powered valve (or SS) amps with HPDs I'll never understand. Of course the cabinet and loading have an impact but anyone familiar with the impedance curve of an HPD wont need much convincing that damping factor matters.

[montesquieu]

+1 Nail on head Tom. SE amps and HPDs dont make a decent match, most especially low powered ones using little or no feedback. HPDs require grip and control, and giving them that transforms the sound. Why some people persist in using low powered valve (or SS) amps with HPDs I'll never understand. Of course the cabinet and loading have an impact but anyone familiar with the impedance curve of an HPD wont need much convincing that damping factor matters.

Well as you know Paul I have been round the block on this, over 5-6 years I tried more than 30 amps with 15in Monitor Golds alone (though I did also do some experimentation in this period with 15in HPDs) from 2A3 single ended up to 200w solid state, and from a couple of hundred quid up to £10k retail, including attempts at both passive and active bi-amping, in no less than four different cabinets (Lancaster, GRF, Lockwood Major and Autograph); latterly I've gone through a similar though thankfully shorter exercise with various custom cabs and 12in Golds and HPDs.

From hard experience there's no doubt in my mind that HPDs need considerably more power than Golds to sound their best, indeed I was quite surprised at my own findings .... yes HPDs will sound quite nice with 15w push pull if the damping factor is adequate, but ultimately you aren't getting their full potential.

For me there's no substitue for the KT88 family for Tannoys (done right of course).

I think what we can all agree on though is that the 12in HPD is an astonishingly good driver, capably of beating just about anything out there in the right setup.

[Reffc]

Well as you know Paul I have been round the block on this, over 5-6 years I tried more than 30 amps with 15in Monitor Golds alone (though I did also do some experimentation in this period with 15in HPDs) from 2A3 single ended up to 200w solid state, and from a couple of hundred quid up to £10k retail, including attempts at both passive and active bi-amping, in no less than four different cabinets (Lancaster, GRF, Lockwood Major and Autograph); latterly I've gone through a similar though thankfully shorter exercise with various custom cabs and 12in Golds and HPDs.

From hard experience there's no doubt in my mind that HPDs need considerably more power than Golds to sound their best, indeed I was quite surprised at my own findings .... yes HPDs will sound quite nice with 15w push pull if the damping factor is adequate, but ultimately you aren't getting their full potential.

For me there's no substitue for the KT88 family for Tannoys (done right of course).

I think what we can all agree on though is that the 12in HPD is an astonishingly good driver, capably of beating just about anything out there in the right setup.

Agreed Tom. It's a shame that so many don't get to hear what it's truly capable of. As with all designs, the end product is the sum of it's parts, so cabinet design (and construction), crossovers and the right drive unit are all equally important inredients. Change one of them (or get it wrong) and the whole system suffers (or fails). Get them all right, in the case of Tannoys, and the results can be breath takingly good.

[Marco]

For me there's no substitue for the KT88 family for Tannoys (done right of course).


Or KT120s ;)

Marco.

[wiicrackpot]

For me there's no substitue for the KT88 family for Tannoys (done right of course).

I think what we can all agree on though is that the 12in HPD is an astonishingly good driver, capably of beating just about anything out there in the right setup.
Glad i wasn't delusional when i thought my WAD KIT88 did a sterling job on 12'inch HPD Devon's then served the purpose on my Chatsworth's thereafter,
always thought the 12'inch HPD gave a good account of itself against the 12'inch Gold's, the gulf wasn't as big as some led to believe.

[Reffc]

Glad i wasn't delusional when i thought my WAD KIT88 did a sterling job on 12'inch HPD Devon's then served the purpose on my Chatsworth's thereafter,
always thought the 12'inch HPD gave a good account of itself against the 12'inch Gold's, the gulf wasn't as big as some led to believe.

Must admit, I have a soft spot for the WAD KT88 amp Andy. The HPD 12's do have quite a significant bass advantage over the MG12's with decent amplification behind them which is sort of the whole point behind the HPDs (that and higher power handling).

[wiicrackpot]

Same here Paul regarding my love for WAD amps, started off with KEL84 then KIT88 with uprated Sowter trannies,
tremendous bang for the bucks and thoroughly enjoyed what it did with my Tannoy journey. :cool:

[pgarrish]

I run my Chevvies on a 180wpc HH S500D amp with great results. I've also tried a Crown DC300A which improved things further. That said, I also use 18wpc El34 PP Mullard 5-20 monos and they sound pretty tasty on those too :-)

[The Black Adder]

Or KT120s ;)

Marco.

+1 hands down.... done right, of course ;)