View Full Version : I've done my first bit of tube rolling
I have just replaced the "tubes" in my Pro-Ject Pre Box RS, going from Electro Harmonix 6922EH to Voskhod "Rocket" 6N23P valves. Probably the cheapest upgrade I have done all year.
It's too early to tell what the change is all about, but they should have settled down in a few days. :cool:
Stratmangler
19-12-2014, 13:36
They should be settled in less than an hour!
I had literally just turned the pre-amp on when I typed that.
First impressions are pretty good, even if I am not even through my first album yet.
DarrenHW
19-12-2014, 14:41
Good fun, isn't it? I've just jerry rigged a SRPP into the MDP I use as a DAC/ADC in the kitchen. After a bit of "rolling" Mullard ECC82's are my favorites at the moment...
I have just replaced the "tubes" in my Pro-Ject Pre Box RS, going from Electro Harmonix 6922EH to Voskhod "Rocket" 6N23P valves. Probably the cheapest upgrade I have done all year.
It's too early to tell what the change is all about, but they should have settled down in a few days. :cool:
I'd expect the EH to be better TBH. I have a quad of the exact rocket logos you have (cheap as chips). I think the bass is good but the mid/treble is pretty dire TBH. See what you think over time.
Which makes me think some fish & chips for supper would really hit the spot!:)
I can't remember and am not able to open it up to check, but were the 6922's used in the MF X10-D? If so, Rock Grotto had a Russian military spec valve replacement which I really like. Apologies if this is a wild goose chase, but worth a look if not..
[edit] - The valves ARE 6922 equivalents -
http://www.rock-grotto.co.uk/x-ccessories.html
I'd expect the EH to be better TBH. I have a quad of the exact rocket logos you have (cheap as chips). I think the bass is good but the mid/treble is pretty dire TBH. See what you think over time.
Which makes me think some fish & chips for supper would really hit the spot!:)
They seem to work well in my pre-amp. Bass is certainly good. Midrange seems correct for voices etc.
I guess that valves work differently in different amps?
Any suggestions for a valve at sensible prices?
Tesla 6922 from Watford valves?
They seem to work well in my pre-amp. Bass is certainly good. Midrange seems correct for voices etc.
I guess that valves work differently in different amps?
Any suggestions for a valve at sensible prices?
Tesla 6922 from Watford valves?
Get the one he describes as original Tesla.
Here's a better version: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E88CC-TESLA-Gold-Pins-matched-pair-NOS-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-test-strong-/221622355355?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3399b8c59b. They sound ace in the two circuits I tried them in. These precise ones, mind i.e. yellow print gold pins with 32 printed on them which refers to the factory. TBH the non-gold pins are probably just as good but I am not sure - I haven't tried them.
I have a better Tesla version still, with cross-swords printed on them. They are getting very rare and cost now. IMHO they are fantastic.
Thanks for the information.
Have you used this seller before?
Watford valves? Yeah - he's fine. The Polish ebayer will be fine too great f/b but no, not used them. Mine did come from Eastern Europe were the "real" Tesla stocks seem strong.
This seems like the same thing, only cheaper? http://www.ebay.fr/itm/2-x-TESLA-E88CC-Vintage-Double-Triode-Tubes-Strong-Test-with-Gold-Pins-/261477196937?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3ce1416489
Ali Tait
19-12-2014, 23:13
Pays to experiment, it's not really helpful saying that such and such valve is great. It may well be, but might sound dire in one bit of kit and great in another. IMHO.
Get the one he describes as original Tesla.
Here's a better version: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E88CC-TESLA-Gold-Pins-matched-pair-NOS-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-test-strong-/221622355355?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3399b8c59b. They sound ace in the two circuits I tried them in. These precise ones, mind i.e. yellow print gold pins with 32 printed on them which refers to the factory. TBH the non-gold pins are probably just as good but I am not sure - I haven't tried them.
I have a better Tesla version still, with cross-swords printed on them. They are getting very rare and cost now. IMHO they are fantastic.
I have these in my Croft 25R and they are superb, certainly the best ECC83's I have heard.:thumbsup:
I have just bought a pair of NOS 1967 Tesla.
I'll let you know how it turns out.
Nice one, Kevin. Tube-rolling with NOS valves can be very addictive (but also hugely educational), so enjoy! :cool:
Marco.
Marco,
I am just trying to find the best VFM/SPPV valve, and I think that the Voskhod Rocket will take some beating.
By the way, what do you store your "spare" valves in to keep them safe?
I need to get something suitable.
Just a drawer in one of my cupboards, mate. Most of mine have their original boxes, so are easy to store. For loose ones, I’m not sure - maybe an old shotgun cartridge belt? :eyebrows:
Marco.
The cheaper ones do come "loose".
I am sure I can find something suitable.
My linear PSU has just been returned to me, as it was supposed to run at 20V, but could only manage 18V.
They have changed the transformer, and it's sat nicely at 20V. Happy days.
I have just bought a pair of NOS 1967 Tesla.
I'll let you know how it turns out.
Have you got a link to the precise ones you went for?
Having owned the Tesla ECC803S and the super expensive Telefunken version of the same, I can inform you the Tele is a complete waste of money. Though I made quite a bit of money when I sold the Teles:) Sonically they are virtually identical. I couldn't tell them apart. Odd because although they used the same tooling equipment, they did look different internally - similar, but different. That is usually a sure sign I'll hear a difference.
These are the ones I bought:
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/301210116564?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.fr%2Fsch%2Fi .html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D30121011 6564%26_rdc%3D1
Those should be very nice, Kevin. Matched pair, fully tested (proper Tesla, not fakes) - nothing not to like! :)
Marco.
I hope so.
With over 14,000 sales and 100% feedback, I felt happier with this vendor.
These are the ones I bought:
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/301210116564?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.fr%2Fsch%2Fi .html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D30121011 6564%26_rdc%3D1
From the listing "NOT the Crappy New production JJ's you can find everywhere"!!! LOL.
These are the ones I bought:
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/301210116564?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.fr%2Fsch%2Fi .html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D30121011 6564%26_rdc%3D1
Kevin, could you do me a favour. Please crank up the volume but without anything playing and put your ear close to the midrange driver and tweeter. Is there much noise? TIA
When they arrive, no problem. ;)
When they arrive, no problem. ;)
Thanks Kevin. My phonostage is an all-valve jobby (7 valves!) and the received wisdom is that if one is to tube-roll then whatever valve is chosen it must be quiet. I have bought a pair of Telefunkens (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/ ) and they have yet to arrive, but I may invest in those Teslas as well - hence my interest.
Has anybody used this bloke before?
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_Other_brands_OEM_Tubes_Preamp_doubletriodes/6922_E88CC_TAD_Premium_Selected_balanced_550
I am just wondering if his premium selected valves may be better than buying through eBay?
A few questions before I start buying a few more sets of valves to try.
These are going in a Pro-Ject Pre Box RS.
How good are Mullards, and are they worth the premium?
Tungsram NOS seem like a good deal at the moment. Are they any good?
Which version of Amperex are the valves to try?
Anything else I have missed?
The Black Adder
22-12-2014, 13:50
ECC83 wise the Mullards are worth the price. The M8214's that Tubemonger sell are utterly sublime. (As Marco will also back up).
Amperex wise the Bugle Boy ones are extremely good but IMO I think the M8214's hit the spot.
Another great one is the 60's versions by Mazda.
As for new ones, the EH yellow print ones are good too and for buttons in comparison.
Thanks Jo, but I am after ECC88 valves. ;)
julesd68
22-12-2014, 18:46
Tungsram NOS seem like a good deal at the moment. Are they any good?
In my humble opinion they are exceptional but as always, depends on your kit and preferences in presentation.
I have tried a number of tubes before settling on NOS Tungsram in my phono stage - ECC83 & ECC82. The ECC82 made a worthwhile improvement, adding bass weight and a modest improvement in dynamics. However the 1964 ECC83 was a night and day difference. Much more neutral, less 'rose tinted' than my other tubes, I find them highly revealing in the source. Significant improvement in bass weight and overall, they give me a big and open 'concert hall' experience that other tubes haven't. These very early Tunsgram are difficult to find though, especially in a matched pair.
I seem to remember reading that the best Tungsram date to prior 1972. The most sought after and expensive ones are the military grade tubes that are distinguished by the additional red writing on the tubes.
Canetoad
23-12-2014, 00:46
ECC83 wise the Mullards are worth the price. The M8214's that Tubemonger sell are utterly sublime. (As Marco will also back up).
Amperex wise the Bugle Boy ones are extremely good but IMO I think the M8214's hit the spot.
Another great one is the 60's versions by Mazda.
As for new ones, the EH yellow print ones are good too and for buttons in comparison.
Sorry Jo, what are these?
Never mind - Electro-Harmonix. DOH!:doh:
The Black Adder
24-12-2014, 04:43
oh, so sorry... I misread it.
Well if you want 'THE BEST' ECC88 then you need the Mullard E88CC (CV2492)... this was the military gold pin version.
I had been rolling ECC88's for quite a while in MF, Croft, Radford and I always came back to the E88CC (CV2492).
Here we go... http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_1960s_CV2492_E88CC_Halo_Wrinkle_Britain_p/1174.htm
Hi Bernie.
I have been using a EH (Electro Harmonix) Yellow printed ECC83 for quite some time. I've even used it in regulation and it's a very nice valve.
Canetoad
24-12-2014, 04:52
Hi Joe,
I put Harma Retros (Mullard reproductions) in my Croft Micro 25R and I think they sound pretty good too! Better than the JJs it comes with. I might give the EH ECC83s a try in the new year. :)
The Black Adder
24-12-2014, 05:25
Hi Bernie.
Yeah, to be honest the JJ's in my old 25 were ok but the Mullards were something else. I also had a JJ go down in my 25R after only a month or so.
If you can stretch to the M8214's you will be very pleasantly surprised me thinks. :) A bit minty though.
I never tried the EH in the 25 to be honest but they are cheap as chips so give some a go by all means. I was using one in the regulation of my pre for a while and it was very good but the M8214 in that position really did make a difference. So you have a couple of options in rolling positions in your 25R.
Another good one is the Amperex Bugle Boy - Ask Marco about that as he did a good load of rolling. Again, a good choice maybe for the regulation.
Right now I've got Mullards on regulation duty 85A2 & M8214 - both military standards. They are the only small valves I can use now as my pre has the octals.
...oh and vintage Mazda's are also superb.
The 1950s and very early 60s tungsram ecc83 with foil getter are IME unquestionably the best I've ever heard and I've tried many...Massive soundstage, air between instruments and slam. Marvelous if you can find them :-)
In my humble opinion they are exceptional but as always, depends on your kit and preferences in presentation.
I have tried a number of tubes before settling on NOS Tungsram in my phono stage - ECC83 & ECC82. The ECC82 made a worthwhile improvement, adding bass weight and a modest improvement in dynamics. However the 1964 ECC83 was a night and day difference. Much more neutral, less 'rose tinted' than my other tubes, I find them highly revealing in the source. Significant improvement in bass weight and overall, they give me a big and open 'concert hall' experience that other tubes haven't. These very early Tunsgram are difficult to find though, especially in a matched pair.
I seem to remember reading that the best Tungsram date to prior 1972. The most sought after and expensive ones are the military grade tubes that are distinguished by the additional red writing on the tubes.
FWIW I rated the Tesla cross sword ECC88s I have as better than NOS Siemens. Not by a lot but by enough for it to matter.
I have still to listen to the Tesla valves, but I was planning on spending the Christmas cash on something.
I may get an Okki Nokki whilst I listen to the new valves.
Kevin, could you do me a favour. Please crank up the volume but without anything playing and put your ear close to the midrange driver and tweeter. Is there much noise? TIA
After a long delay with La Poste, the valves have finally arrived.
I have popped them in, and cranked the volume right up to 11, and they don't seem very noisy. There is a bit of a hiss, but it's not invasive.
They certainly seem better than the Rockets. Initial impression is one of a nice balanced sound.
After a long delay with La Poste, the valves have finally arrived.
I have popped them in, and cranked the volume right up to 11, and they don't seem very noisy. There is a bit of a hiss, but it's not invasive.
They certainly seem better than the Rockets. Initial impression is one of a nice balanced sound.
You will always get some hiss through the phono stage but linestag should be very quiet.
It was through the phono stage. They seem quieter when switching source as well. The rockets used to make a bit of a "Ping" noise as you switched source. The Tesla valves don't do this.
It was through the phono stage. They seem quieter when switching source as well. The rockets used to make a bit of a "Ping" noise as you switched source. The Tesla valves don't do this.
I have some very nice NOS Teslas (not JJ) in my Croft 25R and they are the quietest valves I have tried in the phono stage! They are also genuine unused NOS, so much used stuff going around masquerading as NOS.
Mine are apparently "non JJ" production NOS Tesla made in one of the better factories (32 markings).
They let my system sound superb. I was planning on trying some Tunsgram and Mullards, but I am not sure I will bother now. It may be time to concentrate on the media.
Ooops. Just bought a matched pair of Tungsram E88CC. I really should stop looking for HiFi bits. :D
Tungsram E88CC now fitted. :)
A few snippets from Upscale Audio and reviews on these:
Tungsram 6922 - Old production SWEET, extended, and stays quiet. This has been the hottest tube I have for picky phono stages, and I have had a HUGE response to these and many re-orders from giggly happy customers. Dead nuts quiet. Superb detail and dynamics... can lift a veil off your system. Not the warmest 6922 so if that's what you're after, check out the Amperex or Ediswan tubes
Wonderful tubes, opened things up and took the "veil" off of the music.
I purchased these tubes to replace a pair of original 6h23's in my Audible Illusions L-3. These are actually recommended by AI and I have found them to be excellent replacement tubes that are dead quiet and really seem to hold up.
The 6h23's sound excellent in their own right but this tube does ad a refinement to this preamp. It is a somewhat cleaner and tighter sound that does not lose any sweetness in the process. Things really open up noticeably. It really takes what is a superb preamp with stock tubes and grabs that last little bit which makes it a worth while improvement.
This are the tubes you want in your EAR 912 or EAR 868 Preamps in all positions. They are pure perfection, neutral, quiet, ultra musical, and are a significant improvement across all frequencies over supplied stock. Get a set plus a backup set for later. You won't regret it...you need them. I tried all the other tube brands with EAR and these are the way to go. He who hesitates is lost.
I hope they live up to this! Time to start the listening.
I'm impressed with these. I can't really add anything else to the above comments, but "dynamic and detailed" will do nicely.
I bought ones from this seller, and although probably not 100% the same as the Upscale audio ones, they don't carry the same price tag.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-MATCHED-E88CC-TUNGSRAM-70s-Audio-Double-Triode-Tubes-PAIR-CCa-6922-CV2492-/351299962047?
Just bought a set of 1977 Reflektor 6N23P to try out
They should be interesting.
Reflektor valves a usually very good. Got 4 in my wad...best ive tried
brian2957
25-10-2015, 14:40
Hah ! You'll get caught Kevin and you'll get a good :spank: :lol:
This area of hifi is just too addictive for me :uhho:
When the wife does not bat an eyelid when I buy a new amp, she won't even spot a couple of valves.
Valves arrived today, and successfully installed.
I think they are the best I have had yet. Sounding very good.
Its a great way to get the sound to your liking isn't it?
Recently swapped out my pre valves (Jan Phillips) for a set of Tung Sol 5687's.
Now these sound a bit special...
A bit of that ole SET valve magic going on. :eek:
Yep. So many to choose from though.
I am just trying to find a bit of info on Mullard CV5358 valves. They seem ridiculously cheap, but how do they compare to CV2492 valves?
Who's Pete? :scratch:
:ner:
I thought I could not use PCC88s in my 6922 positions, but the text at Upscale Audio seems to say I could?
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/pages/6922-Tube-Types.html
:scratch:
Edited!
Too many threads at once...
Yep. So many to choose from though.
I am just trying to find a bit of info on Mullard CV5358 valves. They seem ridiculously cheap, but how do they compare to CV2492 valves?
Who's Pete? :scratch:
:ner:
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