My Thorens TD160 B MkII

[Haselsh1]

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab240/Haselsh1/ThorensTD160RedVinylVersionTwo_zps7d0bbdce.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/Haselsh1/media/ThorensTD160RedVinylVersionTwo_zps7d0bbdce.jpg.htm l)



My Thorens TD160 B Mk II playing disc one from Alt-J



Back around 2012 I bought a secondhand Thorens TD160 B Mk II and fitted it with a Linn LVV tonearm. To this combination I fitted my very trusty Ortofon OM30 cartridge and fitted an OM40 stylus. Bingo…! Everything came together and it was a massive step up from the Project RPM-4 that it replaced but I wasn’t perfectly happy with things.

I recently got rather pissed off with the fact that the platter would take around ten seconds to stabilize at the correct speed if indeed it even was the correct speed and I doubted the tonal balance. At first, I fitted a Project cork mat but this really was beyond a joke on this deck. The treble was coarse and splashy and the midrange wasn’t much better so I put the original Thorens mat back on and things really looked up.

A few days ago I ordered an original Thorens drive belt from Analogue Seduction and a white acrylic turntable mat at the same time. These items arrived extremely quickly so of course I couldn’t wait to try them out. First of all I fitted the drive belt and OMG…! The platter now spins up to speed in around three seconds and is very stable. I fitted the acrylic mat and again, OMG…! There is so much clarity to the treble and midrange. I just cannot believe how this has cleaned up the whole sound with such amazing clarity.

So, unless you own a direct drive, quartz controlled deck, make damn sure you DO spend what seems like a rip off on a new drive belt and experiment with different turntable mats. This white acrylic one is definitely a starting point and is only around thirty six quid including courier. I’d call my upgrades and absolute bargain…!

Go forth and listen.

[struth]

Good decks they are:)
another big upgrade is to fit a thick base board to it.

[Haselsh1]

Thank you for that Grant I'll look into it. Didn't they do a version with a hefty baseboard...?

I need to look at my amplification as well as I suspect that the monoblocked Rotels are not giving out enough current. They just don't power the bass with any sense of authority like a massive over powerful amplifier seems to. I remember using a Samson Servo 600 years ago and the level of grip and slam was extremely scary. I'd somehow like that level of authority once again. Maybe that sort of power amplifier with a Croft Micro 25 preamplifier would get me back to where I want to be ?

[walpurgis]

Good deck the TD160. You've come to the right conclusion regarding mats. I've found the TD160 and TD150 seem best suited to a rubber mat. Heftier the better. The TD160 Super had an upgraded plinth/base. You may find one of those beneficial, although you can beef up the standard one. Extra MDF blocks and braces strategically glued in place inside and stick on Sorbothane pads may help. I generally prefer 'box' type bases with the base board removed, it seems to clean the sound up a bit.

(the Linn arm is a good choice on this TT by the way. It works well with MCs should you try one)

[struth]

dont know if they did or not but it does help as does a bigger heavier plinth. seems to impart a much improved tone but initially a heavy baseboard is good and cheap. There was someone selling them on the bay a while ago for not a lot of money.
Amp wise it may well be needing a service to bring it back to the top line..

[Haselsh1]

Good deck the TD160. You've come to the right conclusion regarding mats. I've found the TD160 and TD150 seem best suited to a rubber mat. Heftier the better. The TD160 Super had an upgraded plinth/base. You may find one of those beneficial, although you can beef up the standard one. Extra MDF blocks and braces strategically glued in place inside and stick on Sorbothane pads may help. I generally prefer 'box' type bases with the base board removed, it seems to clean the sound up a bit.

(the Linn arm is a good choice on this TT by the way. It works well with MCs should you try one)

Geoff, I was actually thinking about trying one of those new Ortofon MC cartridges, maybe the black version...? Can't remember what they are called but it could be Quintet...?

[walpurgis]

As for the amps, well the Rotels should have no bother driving the 87db, 8 ohm KEFs. Are you sure it's not room acoustics giving that impression?

Do you get that both on vinyl and CD? The OM series Ortofons are a refined and smooth sounding cartridge, but not the last word in 'slam'. A Stanton would give a beefed up sound.

[walpurgis]

Geoff, I was actually thinking about trying one of those new Ortofon MC cartridges, maybe the black version...? Can't remember what they are called but it could be Quintet...?

I believe there is a Quintet series, but can't comment as I've not heard them.

Find yourself a good Ortofon MC25 FL (only available used now) and you'll be over the moon (I just happen to have a good spare one knocking about :)). You'd need a good MC phono stage or SUT though (well worth having).

Or, a Denon DL-103/DL-103R would be good too. Certainly a sensible place to start if you've not used MCs before.

[zombilly]

I fitted a silent base to mine,all sexc and acrylic with to die for spiked feet. Big difference. Just a shame it cant be seen. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SRM-TECH-SILENT-BASE-FOR-THORENS-DECKS-MASSIVELY-IMPROVES-SOUND-QUALITY-/331440650101?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d2b66f775

[Oldpinkman]

Curious that Geoff and I appear to share an appreciation of the mission 774 and yet have polar opposite views of the LV - V. The only positive thing I can find to say about it was that it was nowhere near as shockingly horrible as the free cartridge that came with it. I guess I would concede the bearings are good enough for a moving coil, but otherwise it would be my front runner for upgrade. I had one on the original PT I had as a student, with a vms 20 and shure 97he. Definitely a starter arm at best.

[walpurgis]

I'd agree the Linn is a starter arm. But a starter arm for MC users. Its mass makes just about perfect for low compliance cartridges and adding a heavier rigid cast headshell makes it more so. I'd far sooner have one than the now unreliable Rega R200, which falls into the same type and price range second hand.

[struth]

Here. no insulting the r200;)

[walpurgis]

Here. no insulting the r200;)

It's a decent enough arm Grant, while it's working. I had one a year or two back and had to rebuild it (rather a fiddly job) due to the bias mechanism belt having rotted away. I bought the last spare belt available in the UK I believe. There are no more and all existing ones will fail sooner or later. To be honest, if I still had one of these arms, I'd move it on sharpish. :)

[struth]

i just got one with a decent belt and have an after market spare belt for it so it should do me. if i ever get to try it. its been origami ed:)

[Oldpinkman]

I'd agree the Linn is a starter arm. But a starter arm for MC users. Its mass makes just about perfect for low compliance cartridges and adding a heavier rigid cast headshell makes it more so. I'd far sooner have one than the now unreliable Rega R200, which falls into the same type and price range second hand.

Yeah, I guess. I think I have history. And also this realisation of how much the arm, as well as, or even more than, the turntable contributes to a record player, since messing with funk arms recently. I was probably one of the very early LV-V purchasers. If you look back at the era, the arm was launched to enable Linn to open up a market for more modestly priced t/t's . At the time, if you thought of buying an LP12, you had to stick an arm and cartridge on it, and the standard pack would be LP12 £400 Ittok £400 Asak £400 £1200 record player, in the days when £1200 was my annual student grant. Maybe you could put a Mission 774 for £170 and £100 V15 (or take your pick) but if you wanted a Linn dealers all Linn solution it was £1200. Enter LV-V for £70 as an arm AND a cartridge - and your starter LP12 all Linn tt is £475. But whilst a £1200 Linn record player was a big pitch up from a standard anybodies hifi £200 record player, the £475 version was not. It demonstrated how much the arm and cartridge contributed to that total result - and stuck a pin in the "motor unit" first "linn chip" myth.

And the "free" cartridge. Phil at Orpington HiFi sorted through 10 to find one without obvious channel imbalance or a bent cantilever, and it was still the worlds biggest pile of shite (I have it in a box somewhere if anyone wants to try it and prove the point). I had to change that, even though I had spent my summer earnings, and bought a VMS20 for about £20. Only that was much more sensitive to magnetic fields and hummed in the middle of the record over the top of the transformer in the PT. Next I know I am sitting on Arthurs mums kitchen floor discussing a solution, and the rest as they say...

But accepting that the OP has bought a budget deck by buying 2nd hand, and would be looking in a similar budget for an arm upgrade (if at all) the Mission 774 can be picked up for between £150 and £250 depending on condition, and is light years better than the LV-V. (I let a mint one go recently, and still don't sleep some nights, although I guess, in reality if I ever want another arm for a project I can pick up a very mates rates funk one - so don't really need the mission).

I just think many fail to appreciate how good a good arm is - when the rest of the components (and particularly the phono stage) can let it shine. And the LV-V was as you nicely term it "a starter arm" - not a good arm!

[walpurgis]

I'll stick with my 774. It works with very cartridge I've tried, sounds just fine and I've no intention of 'upgrading'! :)

[Oldpinkman]

Actually the "OK for moving coils" comment takes me back to Marco's discussion about the Denon 103 - but maybe I'll resurrect that on the moving coil cartridges thread. An SME 309 on an LSD at the funk factory ** was being berated for ripping the cantilever out of 2 of his cartridges (more likely AK to blame than the arm, knowing him - allegedly it swings across the LP from its rest position randomly - or when jogged!)

Anyway - one of the cartridges, was a true tragedy (the EPC305) and I duly went into mourning with him. The other - still in the arm, was the 103 and I suggested we should send the SME309 a thank you note, and discussed the banter Marco and I had had.

The response was akin to the marks I used to get for maths at school - "Show your workings!" :D

Maybe - if I get an idle moment ;)

** I had a "Funky" lunch yesterday since I had to see clients in Hove and Burgess Hill, which are close enough to justify a pint and a ploughmans with an old mate.

[walpurgis]

(the EPC305)

Shame one of those got damaged. I used one for years, it was superb, better than my Fidelity Research, Denon, Supex and Ortofon MCs and better than my Deccas too. Best MC I'd come across until I got a ZYX.

[struth]

the mat i have on mine is a 2 piece cork/rubber mix i think which seems the best . i am now using an isolating disc whitch seems better again. as for arms my 3009 works a treat

[Oldpinkman]

Shame one of those got damaged. I used one for years, it was superb, better than my Fidelity Research, Denon, Supex and Ortofon MCs and better than my Deccas too. Best MC I'd come across until I got a ZYX.

ditto. I still have mine :eyebrows: in my case "best MC I'd come across until I heard the Dynavector". I think I have to conclude that there are few more decent MC's about these days, and I need to dump my old inverted snobbery. Decca? sometimes, they are just so good..., but they've never found a permanent slot in my system.

Incidentally, for the avoidance of doubt - I am not surprised you are happy to stick with your Mission arm. I think they are superb, and probably THE VFM choice on a forum like this. The F5 was a revalation, but you are looking at £750 compared with maybe £200 for a mission, since there are not yet any 2nd hand F5's on the market (well I haven't seen one yet)

Let me know if curiosity gets the better of you, and I'll see if I can borrow a shop-soiled one for you to try if you are prepared to pay the return postage (and can mount a rega mount). Given how similar our views are on much equipment we know in common, it would be interesting to hear anothers comments.