Quad ESL 63's [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

Oldpinkman

11-12-2014, 17:29

Oh boy Bev - you sure you're not just trying to start a fight between Gordon and I? We have history on this one.

You can use them flat against a wall, and they are far from silly like that. I say that, because, as a domestic compromise with the woman I love (and she has a point) they live pushed back against the wall normally, and are pulled out for "listening". But they get used against the wall if its background music, or quite frequently when doing service as front left and right for the home cinema, and they're OK. (It compresses the sound stage - there is no depth, and it affects the treble response a bit - they are a dipole after all)

That said, they are heaps better bought 2 feet into the room, and if I could that would be 3 feet - OK - 5 feet if I had a custom listening room. Its also good to have at least 3 feet, better 6 feet between the inner edges of them. And 3 feet between the outer edges and the nearest wall, and to be 6 feet back from them, sitting at least 4 feet from the rear wall. But they work really well in my living room where several of those parameters are severely compromised.

If you have anything but the tiniest room, with your new sub-woofer, treat yourself. Just ask James :D

Edit: until my "sabbatical" from the forum, my sub-title was "ESL63 fanboy" and not "senior member" - a term I am never comfortable with, as it sounds like an OAP's dick. :doh: We used to have T shirts made up when I was a high-flying accountant with the BIG firm PriceWaterhouse Coopers which said "accountants do it with double entry" on the front, "auditors do it with internal control" on the back, and PW - big firm member! as a badge:lol:

da2222

11-12-2014, 17:31

Ideally they need to be at least 1m from the back walls but distance from the side walls is not really an issue... Make sure they are on stands too!

Ninanina

11-12-2014, 17:57

Oh Richard I definitely don't want to start any fights... ;)

My room is pretty small so getting them even 2 feet into the room is pretty much out of the question.... although I could do has you do and push them back to the wall and only bring them forward for "listening"... I'm lucky in not having to please anyone but myself...

The only thing I can't do is get them away from side walls any more than about a foot

The 63's would dominate my room a bit but who cares

If I did get a pair it would mean an amp change as well but I ran the 57's with a 303/33 to good effect so I guess something like the 405 would be ok, maybe with a 44 pre, which is far from expensive hardware compared to the Audio Note

I will be doing a bit of measuring tonight just to see if it is plausible

My fear is this: I have a nice sounding amp and I love my Klipsch and they seem to work pretty well together... If I get the 63's would I miss the Audio Note/Klipsch combo?... I have no idea :mental:

Gordon Steadman

11-12-2014, 18:16

As if Richard and I could disagree:lol:

I have no direct experience of owning the 63s but spent many happy hours listening to a friend's pair and directly comparing them with the 57s. The older ones are quite happy right up against the side walls. That's how I use them and as far as I know, it is accepted that it helps to reinforce the bass a little. It certainly has no effect on the imaging. My friends 63s were used like that too and he was happy with them and they sounded fine to me, the room wasn't big enough for them to be anywhere else or they would have been touching in the middle!

I reckon they are both quite OK being used 1 metre out from the back wall. I will admit though that the 57s did sound their best when we had them in a barn that was 14 metres long. We had them a third of the way up and against the walls.

My preference was always for the 57s. Other people's ears obviously find different.

My nephew just bought a pair of 63s that had to go straight back to the seller. One of them had a pronounced buzz. I was looking forward to hearing them again but I guess its not to be. His girlfriend is not too upset they have gone back. She thinks they were a little large. People are wierd.

Oldpinkman

11-12-2014, 18:18

Oh blimey Bev, either you don't read my posts, or are stirring it with Gordon (Quad 44)

If you can pick a good pair up, you can try them and if you don't like them, sell them on for not too bigger loss. I "rent" a few things on that basis. Don't worry too much about "serviced". They don't go off in terms of fading. They either work, or are faulty.
They are definitely better on good stands.
They are not that tricky to drive, but yes a good 405 is an obvious choice (if you are picking one up and it hasn't been serviced, it will probably need recapping - C5 at the very least). Mine has had some special TLC from a very clever engineer, but even stock, in good nick, its a decent amp, and buttons these days really.

I am much less fond of the 44 - although mainly it is the phono section I consider really lifeless and you don't appear to use vinyl, so less of a big deal I guess. (Until my recent intro to file-based as a result of a trip to Sovereigns lair, I only really played LP's, and CD's fed the android phone for car use, so my recent skirmish with a Quad 44 was based almost entirely on its phono performance.) It was the "house" amp at Pink Triangle until the Pip came along, but for want of anything better at an affordable price, rather than because we liked it much.

ESL63's do dominate the room - see my pics on the "bigger bottom" thread. Side walls are probably less critical if you have them dead square - I always seem to end up with mine very slightly angled in. As my stepson put it they are big motherf*****s.

But soooo lovely :D

Gordon Steadman

11-12-2014, 18:21

I'm really looking forward to getting my 34 back and the 33 fixed. I can then have proper music in both main systems:eyebrows:

Ninanina

11-12-2014, 18:29

Thanks for your comments Gordon

I found the complete opposite with the 57's, when I had them in a room 22' long and had them miles from the back wall they were just fine but when I moved and couldn't have them away from the back wall they just didn't sound right at all and unfortunately had to sell them, I made a bag of money from them though so can't complain :)

The only speakers I would consider owning twice are the Heresys (I owned a pair before my current set), and the ESL's

I know that Quad's can suffer from all sorts of problems but I would either buy a cheap pair, that I could afford to have some work done to them, or buy a more expensive pair that had been recently serviced by Quad

Ninanina

11-12-2014, 18:33

Oh blimey Bev, either you don't read my posts, or are stirring it with Gordon (Quad 44)

Sorry Richard I have a head like a sieve so it's quite possible I've read your posts and completely forgotten about them, don't take offence though as my memory is rubbish..and I am definitely NOT wanting to stir it with Gordon.. ;)

I've just found your 'Bigger Bottom' thread and will read through it...

Audio Al

11-12-2014, 18:51

Bev

I use my 57's and 63's less than 3 feet from my wall and am very happy with the sound quality;)

Ninanina

11-12-2014, 19:13

Bev

I use my 57's and 63's less than 3 feet from my wall and am very happy with the sound quality;)

Al are the 63's any better than the 57's closer to the wall do you think?

Andrei

11-12-2014, 19:19

Oh Richard I definitely don't want to start any fights... ;)

Don't worry a real fight between them would consist of name calling, glaring, insulting each others ancestry, exchanging spiteful 'smileys', and would only be settled by comparing anatomical measurements.

I have never owned 'statics so I am open to correction: Surely issues with back wall distances can be ameliorated by acoustic traps?

Audio Al

11-12-2014, 19:23

Al are the 63's any better than the 57's closer to the wall do you think?

Not really Bev , More important to lift them up off the floor about a foot

Ninanina

11-12-2014, 19:37

Gordon Steadman

11-12-2014, 19:40

Don't worry a real fight between them would consist of name calling, glaring, insulting each others ancestry, exchanging spiteful 'smileys', and would only be settled by comparing anatomical measurements.

I have never owned 'statics so I am open to correction: Surely issues with back wall distances can be ameliorated by acoustic traps?

Don't be silly. We are both country gentleman. I will give him the choice of my .22 or the yew longbow. He will choose the gun and I will put an arrow right in his apple. The gun has a wonky sight which is very unfair if you are aware of Richard's ancient accident. However, it was unintentional before I started writing it but then it appealed to my warped sense of humour so I left it in. Hi Richard:)

I have seen traps used but have never tried them. Unless you call stacked books, records, cats and wife traps.

DSJR

11-12-2014, 19:49

As I remember, 63's radiate the same backwards as they do forwards, far more then the 57's did, but as said above, lifting them a foot or so and tilting them back a touch works wonders and opens the treble out no end.

A 405-2 with PASSIVE preamp would be perfect. A 44 IF IT'S A LATE ONE (grey case and chocolate coloured buttons) may be transparent enough, but there's more than enough gain in the 405-2 for a passive preamp and its input impedance is fine for this too, as was the 303 I remember (Quad actively encouraged the use of a passive pre in the 80's I recall).

The ONE thing you must be careful of with 63's is that many are coming unstuck now as the adhesives fail and may need new panels. PLEASE bear this in mind when buying.

da2222

11-12-2014, 20:24

As I remember, 63's radiate the same backwards as they do forwards, far more then the 57's did, but as said above, lifting them a foot or so and tilting them back a touch works wonders and opens the treble out no end.

The ONE thing you must be careful of with 63's is that many are coming unstuck now as the adhesives fail and may need new panels. PLEASE bear this in mind when buying.

Absolutely . Also be aware that these speakers can be very quirky- even pristeen refurbs. Temperature variances for instance can induce high pitched squeals or hums, fortunately usually only detectable when the speakers are on standby. They need consideration that passive speakers don't ask for....The environment they live in influences not only musical performance... Quirky, but at times, lovely :-)

Firebottle

11-12-2014, 21:24

Oldpinkman

12-12-2014, 08:24

Don't get rid of the Audionote Bev before you've tried it with the 63s. I use an amp that only puts out about 8W max into the 57s and it goes plenty loud enough.

Be good to hear how you get on,

:cool: Alan

By all means try Quads with your audionote, but my experiences are a little different from Alans. They're not THAT hard to drive, but probably want 50 watts to be comfortable. An amp like my NAD 3020 with its soft clipping might make a good fist of it - not that I've ever tried it - maybe I will over Christmas if I get some me time.

However subjectivist you are, physics and maths don't just stop existing. At a rated sensitivity of 86dB 1w/M , assuming an average listening level of 90db, a pretty tight 2.5m from speaker to ear, and allowing only 4db headroom (for peaks) you need 39W. I listen relatively quietly, and James recently measured my average sound level at 85dB with an iphone app. That was quiet enough for us to talk comfortably. When I last heard the Quads driven by a low power valve amp, the average listening level was probably 100dB or more. Amplifiers show the strain when driven that far beyond their rating.

I think at fairly normal domestic listening levels in a fairly normal room, 50-100w is best for these speakers. But it doesn't hurt to try with the audionote first (I presume it has decent protection circuits on the output - the Quads are a bit brutal in their own protection)

Oldpinkman

12-12-2014, 08:26

Don't be silly. We are both country gentleman. I will give him the choice of my .22 or the yew longbow. He will choose the gun and I will put an arrow right in his apple. The gun has a wonky sight which is very unfair if you are aware of Richard's ancient accident. However, it was unintentional before I started writing it but then it appealed to my warped sense of humour so I left it in. Hi Richard:)

I have seen traps used but have never tried them. Unless you call stacked books, records, cats and wife traps.

Fat chance of a fair fight. I know your underhand methods. When I was there this summer you got your cat to piss in the Pip's transit box in a vain attempt to get me to leave it there. It's just as well you do a good curry ;)

Ninanina

12-12-2014, 21:19

Along the same sort of lines does anyone have any experience of Martin Logan or Magnepans ?

southall-1998

12-12-2014, 21:43

My father owns a pair of MG 1.7's. He's driving them using an Emille ki-40l.

S.

Ninanina

12-12-2014, 21:47

My father owns a pair of MG 1.7's. He's driving them using an Emille ki-40l.
S.

Can they be used near to a back wall Shane ? they are probably a bit too big for my room but I know they do smaller versions that might well fit in ok..;)

Barry

12-12-2014, 21:51

I believe all Magnapan speakers are dipole designs, so like electrostatics they ought not be used too close to a rear wall.

Gordon Steadman

12-12-2014, 22:49

Fat chance of a fair fight. I know your underhand methods. When I was there this summer you got your cat to piss in the Pip's transit box in a vain attempt to get me to leave it there. It's just as well you do a good curry ;)

Ah, of course, i couldn't remember why we renamed him 33...........

Gordon Steadman

12-12-2014, 22:52

Don't get rid of the Audionote Bev before you've tried it with the 63s. I use an amp that only puts out about 8W max into the 57s and it goes plenty loud enough.

Be good to hear how you get on,

:cool: Alan

Snap, the Stereo 20 probably has about 8 watts a channel too. More than adequate in anything other than a baronial hall. Maybe the 63s need a bit more but I suppose it depends on the levels you like to suffer.

Ninanina

12-12-2014, 23:22

struth

12-12-2014, 23:31

I really don't know what to do re: ESL's etc

The trouble is I love my Audio Note / Klipsch sound... maybe I should just be happy with what I have and stop thinking about a change... this 'hobby' is a nightmare to be honest... :doh:

I think there comes a time when you have to say to yourself. "am I happy with the sound I have" ...if you are then best to leave it alone; you might take years and X amount of money to get it better, or even as good. :)

Sovereign

12-12-2014, 23:41

Yes I really liked Richards flat pair. I'd love to swap them with my OB's for a day or two , to see what they sound like in my system.

walpurgis

12-12-2014, 23:44

I really don't know what to do re: ESL's etc

Well you've been there before, so you should know the pros and cons. If you're short of room I'd give them a miss. I know they sound excellent, I've had a pair, but you need to give them space.

If you want something different (that's about as different as you can get) try a pair of Lowthers, you may find they have rather a lot in common with the Klipsch's and they work in small rooms and only need about 3 watts to go incredibly loud. They'll outperform the transient response and detail of just about anything you've heard.

Ali Tait

12-12-2014, 23:48

Except a static. :-)

Ninanina

12-12-2014, 23:52

I think there comes a time when you have to say to yourself. "am I happy with the sound I have" ...if you are then best to leave it alone; you might take years and X amount of money to get it better, or even as good. :)

You might well be right there Grant... and yes I am more than happy with the sound my current set-up gives me... as you say it may well take me years and loads of money to get it better...or at least as good !

It's just that I said to myself, once I sold my 57's, that I'd have another pair of electrostatics at some point.. but maybe that would be the case when I can really give them the room to breath that they need.. so that's not this house but maybe the next one...;)

As I said the only speakers that I'd own twice were the electrostatics and the Klipsch....and I am on my second pair of Heresys, so one out of two isn't bad I guess :D

Ninanina

13-12-2014, 00:04

Well you've been there before, so you should know the pros and cons. If you're short of room I'd give them a miss. I know they sound excellent, I've had a pair, but you need to give them space.

If you want something different (that's about as different as you can get) try a pair of Lowthers, you may find they have rather a lot in common with the Klipsch's and they work in small rooms and only need about 3 watts to go incredibly loud. They'll outperform the transient response and detail of just about anything you've heard.

Geoff I think you may well be right, I am a little short of room for electrostatics so may well give them a miss...

I did own a lovely pair of Lowthers, using almost new drivers, (but I cannot remember the actual driver number, but I think they were PM6A's!) and yes I loved them and ran them with about 1.5w of SET at the time which was more than enough to get very loud... however they are a nightmare to keep running as they should... I found them to be very delicate drivers.. and if there was an 'R' in the month they just would not perform correctly... centering the voice coil was a task I do not want to try again...it gave me grey hairs and I was quite young when I had them... they really aged me... :eek:

dowser

13-12-2014, 07:53

I use mine 2-3 feet from back wall now, but angled to fire across the room - they sound as good now as they did in a much larger room 6 feet from back wall.

da2222

13-12-2014, 09:45

If you're in love with the Klipsch sound then the '63s will probably not float your boat. Polar opposites to say the least!

I really don't know what to do re: ESL's etc

The trouble is I love my Audio Note / Klipsch sound... maybe I should just be happy with what I have and stop thinking about a change... this 'hobby' is a nightmare to be honest... :doh:

wee tee cee

13-12-2014, 14:02

I have a pair of 63s which are now tucked away as they are in need of some TLC. I found they needed to be out into the room about 1m and about 50cm from the corners.
I did find placing them on stands was beneficial, I utilised my Spendor stands that are on castors, you can easily move them about for placement and tuck them away when not in use.

Amp wise I found they worked really well with Temple audio mono blocks and even the original bantum. I preferred the delicacy that a passive pre brought. I tried them with a variety of amps valve/hybrid and SS but always came back to t amps ( two mini ts were nice).

I preferd them with the socks removed.

Sonically they are something special and can get to a place that is very near to the imersive sound a good headphone set up can.

southall-1998

30-12-2014, 23:09

BUMP.

Bit off topic here!

Bev,

How old is your Audio Note OTO SE? Have you ever tube rolled with it?

S.

Ninanina

30-12-2014, 23:16

BUMP.

Bit off topic here!

Bev,

How old is your Audio Note OTO SE? Have you ever tube rolled with it?

S.

Hi Shane... I have no idea how old my Oto is as I purchased it about 10 odd years ago secondhand... I was thinking that it may be time to get it to Audio Note for a 'check-up' and maybe a tube replacement may well be in order

Fortunately Audio Note are not a million miles from me so I may well take it to them for a service and maybe a tube replacement... ;)

walpurgis

30-12-2014, 23:23

I have no idea how old my Oto is as I purchased it about 10 odd years ago secondhand... I was thinking that it may be time to get it to Audio Note for a 'check-up' and maybe a tube replacement may well be in order

After ten or more years that's probably a good idea. It's a nice bit of kit and deserves it. :)

Ninanina

30-12-2014, 23:31

After ten or more years that's probably a good idea. It's a nice bit of kit and deserves it. :)

Thanks Geoff, that's what I was thinking

I will be phoning Audio Note in the next few days to arrange a service/tube replacement etc...

I will probably also get them to check out my new (to me!) 1x Sig Dac as well just to make sure it's operating as it should...

southall-1998

30-12-2014, 23:42

The OTO SE has always fascinated me. I like the idea of the tubes safely protected from the top lid.

Plus, its auto bias too!

S.

Ninanina

30-12-2014, 23:53

The OTO SE has always fascinated me. I like the idea of the tubes safely protected from the top lid.

Plus, its auto bias too!

S.

Shane the Oto SE is a wonderful amp and I am so glad that I didn't sell it when I advertised it on AoS some time ago... I did not use it for about 7/8 years of my ownership as I didn't have suitable speakers for it, but now I have the Klipsch Heresys they seem to match very well indeed... :)

southall-1998

30-12-2014, 23:59

Shane the Oto SE is a wonderful amp and I am so glad that I didn't sell it when I advertised it on AoS some time ago... I did not use it for about 7/8 years of my ownership as I didn't have suitable speakers for it, but now I have the Klipsch Heresys they seem to match very well indeed... :)

Without making you feel itchy. Have you tried your amp with Audio Note speakers?

S.

walpurgis

31-12-2014, 00:00

Good point. Their speakers can be wonderful.

Ninanina

31-12-2014, 00:04

Without making you feel itchy. Have you tried your amp with Audio Note speakers?

S.
Actually I have tried the AN speakers with the Oto, I think they were the AN J's, and while they sounded superb in the room I heard them in they did not suit my room at all... it took all of about 5 minutes to decide that they just did not work in my room for some reason... they just sounded 'boomy' and terrible.. the Klipsch Heresys suit the Oto so much better

I did have a set of AN E's in my previous house for a couple of weeks and again I was not that impressed with them but that wasn't using the Oto at the time..;)

Light Dependant Resistor

31-12-2014, 00:40

Hi Bev
I only once heard 63's many years ago. I presently use stacked 57's driven by 2x Quad 306. I presently have the upper 1961 pair on stands and the lower 1969 pair on their original feet, which need to be raised so the pairs are closer together.

Having turned one pair off for a day, the wool stuffing needs to be removed to gain rear radiation, with the wool stuffing in place rear radiation is compromised.I presently have the lower pair with stuffing and the upper without
the upper pair sound more lively, so some pleasant work to do.

Quad could I think, recreate their prominence in the marketplace once again by making the same 57 in Huntingdon and maybe partner it with a LDR based 33 other than the phono stage ( I await their letter ) , an FM3 and a modern day 303 that same as the old one did, partners perfectly with the 57

I also have a 44 but despite LM4562' op amps it does not come close to the LDR in laying bare what is on CD or LP, the 44 is nice though with an FM4 for a radio based system IMO

Cheers / Chris