Worthwhile turntable?

[stree]

Probably tomorrow I will be dusting off my old Toshiba turntable,from around mid 80s I think.
It is a Toshiba SR-Q660, and I can find no info on it anywhere. Its probably low end to middling, but hopefully worth keeping, no budget for anything else right now.
All I am going to do is power it up and try an LP hooked up to the TV to see if everything functions. If it does I will buy a Behringer PP400 phono amp, for when I get my amp.
This is what I know of it, can you read from this what sort of quality it is? I know I can`t.
Quartz lock
Direct drive
coreless and slotless motor QUARTZ PLL servo control
31cm aluminium diecast platter
static balanced pipe tonearm
length 215mm
overhang 16mm
tracking error -2~=2
moving magnet C-290M
output voltage 0.6mv/cm/sec
frequency response 20~20,000 Hz
channel balance (1kHz) <1dB
crosstalk (1kHz) >25dB
load resistance 47k~100k ohm
wow & flutter DIN zero to peak 0.035%
WRMS less than 0.025%
rumble DIN A lower than -45dB
DIN B lower than -75dB

auto stop auto return auto repeat & manual.

Would you please let me know if this should tell me anything useful, no idea how this spec stands up against other turntables and what sort of bracket it is in quality wise, and whether it is worth keeping and getting a new cartridge for
If you can help or comment it would be gratefully appreciated, don`t know where else I could ask this sort of question!

PS no idea where that smiley icon came from !

[walpurgis]

I reckon it will just fire up and run fine if it's been stored dry. It may be an idea to apply a drop of fine oil to the main bearing. The arm is decent if I recall. I'm using a Toshiba SR-370 myself, nice unit.

[kcc123]

Hi Chris,

Hi-Fi Choice had a review of this automatic turntable in 1981(£130), but on grounds of sound quality, it was not merit recommendation.

According to its descriptions, its arm had an estimated effective mass of 16g which was suited to low compliance cartridges in the 7-14 cu range, however, the arm geometry was well below par, preventing accurate two point alignment. The biasing was in the wrong ratio from rim to centre, also the bearings were slack although they offered low friction levels.

Its sound quality was somewhat coloured with a significant veiling of musical detail and a loss of stereo depth. Bass notes were uneven, with a noted loss of power at the lowest frequencies. The supplied cartridge(C-290M) showed some sibilance and aggression in the treble region.

[Macca]

With a bit of tweaking you can probably get it to sound acceptable.

Find a good place to set it up, not in a corner, somewhere as free as possible from vibration and make sure with spirit level that it is sitting dead level. Oil the bearing.

Get rid of the crappy Toshiba cart and fir a decent cheap one like an AT95, and take the time to fit it spot on.

If the plinth is lightweight moulded plastic and has voids underneath use plat do or plastecine and fill in all the voids with it.

I had a few budget DD tables like this back in the day and they will never really impress but if you do all the above it will sound acceptable and you can live with it until you can get summat better.

[stree]

Thanks for the in depth! Much appreciated........is there any budget TT worth considering? I can live without the TT for a while, but funds are restricted due to circumstance, so it will have to be best bang for buck and not what I would ideally want.
Thanks again for all the invaluable help

[johnny reggae]

Hi, a rega 2,or rega 3 planner, a linn basik, are good starter decks, which can be had for under £200,
also a thorens td150,or 160, systemdek 11x are good starter suspension decks at the around £200 price mark.

[stree]

powered it up and motor/drive has died................ Ah well.....The search begins

[Macca]

Chris put up a wanted add in the Private Exhibitions section here. There are folk here with dozens of decks stacked away I am sure someone will have something decent in your price range that they willl let go.

[stree]

Thanks Macca, good idea,

[walpurgis]

Get rid of the crappy Toshiba cart and fir a decent cheap one like an AT95, and take the time to fit it spot on.

I bet the existing 'Toshiba' cartridge is a re-badged Audio Technica. Which one though? Might be OK.

I'd give the SR-Q660 a try before dismissing it, regardless of reviews. Not all reviews were really representative of how a product was once in use.

[Macca]

Geoff the motor's knackered.

[walpurgis]

Geoff the motor's knackered.

Ah, so it is. I missed that. Shame.

[stree]

Back. Been very ill and now a bit better.
I was really regretting getting rid of the Toshiba TT, thinking I should have given it a chance....It was an Aurex after all. With an AT95 cart the problems in the poor review posted earlier could perhaps dealt with?
I gave it to a friend before Christmas to dispose of as he saw fit, but I mentioned it yesterday and he replied " Its still in the back of the car",Aha. So its coming home for TLC. Cosmeticallt at least there are no problems, I am the only one who has ever used it from new.
When I reported that the motor had died, that was not a fair description. The speed is up and down on the platter and I assumed the motor was sticking or struggling. Since found out about contact cleaner on speed Pots and twist, and speed control switch , so I am going to give it a chance.Another person with the same problem but unknown turntable, just left it running, no LP and arm raised, overnight and it just wanted the pitch control setting after that.That sounds an easy one so trying that first !
So any tips on a good contact cleaner that doesn't cost the earth ( WD in a shop today but £9 a tin for four pots and speed control?)

[karma67]

and if you fancy a at95he to go on it,it just so happens i know someone selling one!

[CageyH]

I have always used servisol contact cleaner. Last time I bought a can, it was about £5

[struth]

I use Deoxit.

[stree]

Thank you caps. Deox or servisol it probably is then,
Could well be interested in that cartridge, thank you. Although it is a little premature seeing as I have not got it working properly yet! What differentiates the HE from the other 95 versions?

[karma67]

The cartridge is the same, it's the stylus that is different. A goggle search for at95he will show you just how much better it is over the standard at95he stylus.

[stree]

How does it stand against a Goldring Elektra MM at nearly half the price? This is supposed to be a budget system and I am doing my best to stick to budget, but cart and stylus is one area where one can easily get carried away and buy a cart that ticks all the right boxes yet is wasted on your set up. The AT tracking concerns me. Depends which TT and tonearm to a great degree by the look of it. Plenty of time to decide anyway, the TT is not up and running yet!
Found a cart review site with very short summary of many acrts. the 95e is there but have not seen the HE yet. This is what it says about the 95e
:Well extended bass but not as tight as other MM's. Upper midrange and treble slightly rolled off leading to a lack of definition to some instruments and vocals. No notable sibilance but upper frequencies lack some bite and attack.

And the GE mm

:Good wide soundstage. A strong, tight bass response - Double bass well controlled and not at all flabby. Midrange and upper frequencies well defined, broad and open. Instruments and vocals are cleanly defined. Percussion is crisp and sharp without being over exuberant. Is bettered in overall refinement by the top flight MM's and MC's, but an excellent performance from a budget item.

and that's just the first pair of reviews.........

Just need a decent workhorse cart and pref conical stylus and that will do for a start at least.
Please do not think me dismissive of the AT95HE suggestion, that's the sort of thing I need to help me get a grip on this cart/stylus minefield and is much appreciated.

[karma67]

Cool. Get the turntable up and running first and I will give you a few links for the he stylus :)

[stree]

Thanks Jamie. Never had a problem with arm when used before and sound was fine. All items weer Tosh, it was wedding gift in 1978 from my wifes employer, a classical music shop in the centre of Leeds. The whole lot in a smoked door fronted cabinet was selling for around £750 then, so not a low or mid range music centre type thing. The tape deck went years ago when tapes went out of fashion and it started chewing them up, the amps are mains hardwired together and a few years ago just gave out a small pop and silence when turned on.Had a peep inside but nothing swollen or burnt. Still have them, might be a simple repair but nowhere round here that I can find for hifi repairs.
Still have the tuner and that works fine, reckoned to be a good tuner I recall. Amps are SC and SY -335.
Cart is probably original still but have changed stylus one or twice.
Still puzzled as to relationship or difference of skating and tracking...........

[struth]

good article here.
www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/cartbasics.html

[stree]

Thanks Struth, appreciated.

[stree]

Well, disappointing as it may appear to audiophile ears , in more ways than one, I think I will be going for an AT 91! I know I know...could do better.... But comes with conical stylus as original Toshiba did, does not pretend to be anything it isnt, tracks like a train, more than holds its own on worn vinyl.....30 hour break in, ..and cart with stylus genuine Audio Technica for £22.00?..............Its a no brainer for me.............plenty of time then to consider a "better " cartridge should I think it required.............

Struth. Thank you for that link, excellent reference paper for me

[stree]

This is not easy is it? Now focusing on the AT95e.....Looks brilliant for the price..... The HE would be wasted on my setup I think, very tempting on paper but probably not a good match.
Still waiting for TT to be brought round..............Probably Friday, then let it spin overnight and see if there is any improvement. Ordered a can of Servisol so just have to determine which the speed pots are and where they are.Not sure how to recognise them from the schematics........... I will look for little cans with a slot in the top.

[stree]

First, I want to thank you all for your input and help, much appreciated. I know this thread is a slow mover,probably due to my slow feedback and input as much as anything, plus its not a well known or highly rated TT to begin with and its probably regarded as a minor repair. Whip the back off, find the Pots, spray em and work em and rebuild. Routine for some experienced deckhands no doubt. Hesitating for various reasons over tackling this though, not least of which is the service manual speed setting procedure which calls for an oscilloscope to reset the speeds.
But the main reason is something you cannot be aware of, and thats the fact that I am severely disabled and my windows of opportunity to undertake such works is limited to say the least. With the best will in the world. I am being lined up for surgery to remove a good part of both lungs and having heart scans, plus am under a specialist for undiagnosed stomach problems. Weight is down to 88 pounds and dropping, so as you can imagine strength and other issues are somewhat compromised.
Irony of it is I have a more or less fully equipped workshop. Full range of woodworking machinery and extensive hand and power tools. heavy duty metalworking pillar drill, linishing machine, various solder stations and electrical test equipment and a 7mts X 7 mtrs workshop with heat light and power. It might as well be in Timbuctoo for all the use I can get out of it now. A few years ago I would have tackled a rebuild using slate or granite, perspex solid sycamore or oak and aluminium plate,But that times past.
So have decided to try and find someone locally who could tackle the pots and speed setting. I do this reluctantly as someone who usually makes and mends to a high standard, but its just what reality is, so I am going to start ringing round.
This is not calling for any sympathy vote, I can see hear think etc perfectly well. and I need this to have something to focus on and think about. Call it my therapy if you like. So you can imagine how much I appreciate it when you give me something to think about, options to consider and goals to achieve.. Thanks again guys.

[struth]

nice one Chris...hope your chance for an op comes off. i,m disabled myself now as was my wife so know where you are. sure the deck will be fixable

[walpurgis]

I remember those 335 amps. I had a pair. Quite decent sounding and reasonably powerful if I recall. If one has gone "pop", it's probably the power amp (did you check the fuse?). It may be economic just to get a second hand power amp of some sort and use it with the pre-amp. Assuming that unit is functional. The SC-335 should work OK with just about any other power amp.

[stree]

Thanks Struth. Just managed to get out to the workshop and set the TT running with the arm cued, at 33 1/3 ( supposedly!) and going to leave it overnight. Sods law, it started spinning fine and just going by tiny mark on the platter seems to be holding steady. You never know........................ I have printed off a strobe template from Vinyl Engine and have bought a photo strobe tacho thing from Amazon to check it with. Only 7 quid.
Problem printing the template though, there is a scale bar on it which must read 180mm but is only 175 when printed.......................any ideas?

Walpurgis...........Yes, I really liked those amps and still have them post *POP*.............Could not find a fuse on the power amp.All looks clean in there tough, no melts or scorches.

Also have a Sony TA-F444ESX whcih had the same thing happen. Still got that too.

[karma67]

like with the cartridge alignment templates you have to check your printer settings to make sure they come out to scale.

[stree]

Not sure how to get the scaling right..trial and error?

[stree]

Thinking that the headshell on this TT looked a little "cheap" bearing in mind the less than positive review of the tonearm assembly performance,I was considering having a go at a wooden headshell. Maybe a tonearm next. Lots of timbers in my workshop to choose from and could even laminate one from exotic veneers. So removed the headshell today. Surprisingly cold to the touch for plastic. Did a little googling and quickly identified it as an ADC LMG-1 Magnesium at 7.5 gramme. So I think its a keeper.
Also decided on cartridge and stylus.Bearing in mind mainly old vinyl will be played. From LPGear (USA) an AT95CE...............