Stained glass windows

[awkwardbydesign]

You may also be able to explain why modern stained glass windows simply don’t look the same as their antique counterparts. The colours in the former are definitely brighter and more ‘acid’ in appearance, and they also don’t have the same depth of colour, looking distinctly watered down and more ‘anaemic’, in comparison.

Is this because the pigments used have changed, or what else in your opinion? I ask because I have an interest in antiques and collectables, and live in an old property, where we’d like to introduce the use of antique stained glass windows in certain areas of the house.

Marco.

Marco asked this question about this in The Artist's Palette, and I thought it ought to be over here.
Firstly I should mention that my area of expertise was glass embossing; that is designing, drawing and etching windows with hydrofluoric acid. I worked in the same studio as the stained glass artists, and did some of the drawings for them. As the embossing work dried up (plastic film and CNC cutting machines; we were strictly old school, everything made by hand), I moved over into making leaded lights.
Now this is where there is some confusion in the public mind, as "stained glass" is, strictly speaking, glass that has been stained! That means painting and firing glass such as is used in church windows. The domestic coloured glass windows and door panels are "leadlights".
So Marco, when you say modern windows are not as vibrant as the old ones, which type do you mean?

[The Barbarian]

& the same reason i will not buy modern coloured Vases & dishes. They are no real coloured glass. I insist on 60's/70's genuine items

[Marco]

Hi Richard,


Now this is where there is some confusion in the public mind, as "stained glass" is, strictly speaking, glass that has been stained! That means painting and firing glass such as is used in church windows. The domestic coloured glass windows and door panels are "leadlights".
So Marco, when you say modern windows are not as vibrant as the old ones, which type do you mean?

The best example is probably the modern stained glass used on doors (often the UPVC variety), as decorative panels, or when churches have original stained glass windows smashed by vandals, and have to replace them with modern replicas - the difference is obvious [the modern ones look like utter shite in comparison, for reasons given in my earlier post].

I don’t think that the pigments used now are the same (as good) as they once were, possibly due to banned substances now not being allowed, as you alluded to on the other thread with the production of vintage vacuum tubes.

Marco.

[struth]

Time team made a stained glass in the medieval way, using the right pigments and kiln firing them to get the colours and it came out very well. looked way better than modern painted ones. I liked the way they cut the glass with a hot poker too. Class

[The Barbarian]

Hi Richard,



The best example is probably the modern stained glass used on doors (often the UPVC variety), as decorative panels, or when churches have original stained glass windows smashed by vandals, and have to replace them with modern replicas - the difference is obvious [the modern ones look like utter shite in comparison, for reasons given in my earlier post].

I don’t think that the pigments used now are the same (as good) as they once were, possibly due to banned substances now not being allowed, as you alluded to on the other thread with the production of vintage vacuum tubes.

Marco.

Its not the same because it is not real coloured glass it a colour coat they apply which gives a more pale look

[YNWaN]

A lot of church stained glass is painted on top of the actual coloured glass - this gives a surprisingly large amount of the detail and modifies the tone. These days, there is a broad range of glass colours and textures available but they are not the same colour palette that existed in the eighteenth century (for example) unless you actively seek out such.

I have had stained glass panels commissioned and it was definitely real stained glass (not clear glass painted). The market, what is available, is far more diverse these days than it ever has been in the past. You can get what you want but, as with all bespoke items, the key is to really know exactly what it is that you want.

[Marco]

Indeed, Andre - I’ve seen that type of stuff before. However, dude, even when stained glass companies today try their best when creating designs, at considerable expense to the customer, the colours still look ‘colder’ and not as rich/deep in appearance, as the old stuff was.

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Mark,


These days, there is a broad range of glass colours and textures available but they are not the same colour palette that existed in the eighteenth century (for example) unless you actively seek out such.


It’s that colour palette I like, especially the reds, greens and cobalt blues - and I’ve yet to see modern stained glass achieve the same effect. To my eyes, the colours just look falsely ‘spotlit’ and too 'acid’, whereas antique stained glass has more naturally vibrant colours with a darker, richer hue. To my eyes, anyway.

I was trying to ascertain the reason(s) for that.

Marco.

[BTH K10A]

Glassmaking is an art and there are few artisans left in most crafts nowadays.

Stained glass usually refers to plain or colourd glass which has been painted and fired, adding detail to either the individual piece or a larger work.

Leaded light used unadorned coloured glass, normally set in geometric patterns and as alluded to earlier some of the substances used to colour the glass are either too expensive or would not be allowed to be used today such as the uranium used in the shade of this lamp of mine.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/House/109-0935_IMG-2.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/emttsd15/media/House/109-0935_IMG-2.jpg.html)

I have quite a lot of victorian leaded lights in my home comprised of many different colours in subtle hues and apparently it's all hand made from cylinder glass, a process that again is very expensive but gives a quality to the glass that cannot be achieved by modern float glass.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/House/102-0211_IMG_zps040a4b39.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/emttsd15/media/House/102-0211_IMG_zps040a4b39.jpg.html)

This link gives some idea of the compound that were used to coulour glass

http://1st-glass.1st-things.com/articles/glasscolouring.html

[Marco]

Nice one, Andy - that’s precisely what I was looking for! :)


Leaded light used unadorned coloured glass, normally set in geometric patterns and as alluded to earlier some of the substances used to colour the glass are either too expensive or would not be allowed to be used today…


Yup, that seems to be the case. There’s definitely a marked difference, and so I’m sure you can appreciate where I’m coming from?

Lovely lamps, btw, and (I think) your entrance hall - superb!

Marco.

[The Barbarian]

Indeed, Andre - I’ve seen that type of stuff before. However, dude, even when stained glass companies today try their best when creating designs, at considerable expense to the customer, the colours still look ‘colder’ and not as rich/deep in appearance, as the old stuff was.

Marco.

Yep precisely the reason i buy vintage Glass articles no modern cack.

[awkwardbydesign]

I started this thread and then left the computer!
Please bear in mind that I was not an expert in stained glass, and my memory is definitely failing. Also my knowledge is 10 years out of date. But in my experience, working for a company that made new and replacement windows of all types, it is possible to find the vibrant colours you admire, but expensive!
Ruby glass generally uses gold, which is now very expensive, and churches have less money to spend. As for the domestic windows and door panels, flashed glass was used extensively in the Victorian Gothic period, and that gives very rich reds and blues in particular. But it is more expensive than plain coloured glass. Also the texture makes a difference; "cathedral" is the most common texture used, as it is cheap and readily available. Pub glass was usually of this type, but it does look rather weak. We kept stocks of Victorian glass to use in repairs, but of course it started to run out. I introduced the fake leaded lights to our company, using transparent film and stick-on lead, which is cheaper and can be used in doubled glazed units; otherwise you are looking at triple glazing, with the lead-light sealed in the middle.
Although the Victorians made strongly coloured domestic lead-lights, their stained glass tended to towards a pale and almost photographic style, totally unlike the medieval windows, which were intended to inspire awe (and get one up on the other cathedrals, in particular).
Sadly I don't have any stained or leaded glass, except for a small sample I made for the ceiling of an Indian restaurant in Manchester. I do have a brilliant cut and embossed door panel in my kitchen door (the slightly broken panel I had to copy; I cut a few inches off the bottom and it fitted nicely!), and an example of the "liquid lead" and transparent coloured paint faux lead-light technique on my back door.
So unless things have changed it the last 10 years, it IS possible to get similar work done, always assuming you can find the glass textures, but it would cost some serious money. But hey, looking at some of your hifi systems, that shouldn't be a problem! :lol: