Caiman 2 and Apple's Airport Express (and Extreme).

[Bonky]

I've had problems with both the Caiman 1 and the Bushmaster when connected to the Airport express via Toslink or standard cable. It works for perhaps 10-15 mins and then starts 'stammering' and eventually drops-out completely. Stan, in the past, has isolated this to a 'timing issue' between the AEs and the DACs.

My question is: is this any better with the Caiman2??

Many thanks,

Richard.

[BilliumB]

Which version Airport Express are you using - I had no problems with a Bushmaster II and the older 'plug in' Airport Express (picked it up of ebay for £32).

Cheers. Bill

[Bonky]

...The newer - square version. The old version no longer seems to work. I'm running Yosemite.


Thanks,

Richard.


Which version Airport Express are you using - I had no problems with a Bushmaster II and the older 'plug in' Airport Express (picked it up of ebay for £32).

Cheers. Bill

[BilliumB]

From the research I did, that's probably the problem - have a look around Apple support sites, you'll find quite a bit of information. Not sure that the operating system should make any difference, the old AE works to wireless n standards (& g). Maybe try and pick-up a plug-in wireless n (I think it was the 2nd generation model, the 1st only doing wireless g) off ebay - mine was only £32 and was 'unused'. Worked great.

Cheers. Bill

[Werner Berghofer]

Richard,

...The newer - square version. The old version no longer seems to work. I'm running Yosemite.
the old “plug-in” model still works, but it needs to be a compatible with 802.11n. The first generations of this type were not compatible with 802.11n. Starting with iTunes version 11 these early models of Airport Express were not longer recognized as AirPlay targets; also they were no longer supported by Apple’s Airport Utility.

I use both “plug-in” and square models in my WLAN (2.4 GHz, 802.11n [802.11b/g compatible]) without troubles. All Macs are updated to the latest version 10.10.1 of Yosemite, the iOS devices run iOS 8.1.1 and 7.1.2 (my ancient iPhone 4). All kinds of Airport Express stations are recognized by and accessible from all devices.

Werner.

[Bonky]

Thanks both. I must have three of the old plug-in models of AE as the software no longer recognises them hence my buying three newer models. I am plaqued with stammers and drop-outs even with ethernet links. I tried last night to by-pass the Bushmaster...but still had the same problems so am now in danger of posting on the wrong forum!

I will try with another Mac to see if I have the same problems.

I think I was looking for an excuse to upgrade my Caiman one and Bushmaster to the Caiman Two.....


Be

Richard

[Werner Berghofer]

Richard,

I am plaqued with stammers and drop-outs even with ethernet links.
what kind of device do you use to create (establish) your WLAN: an Airport Extreme or an Airport Express? And are the Express stations setup to Join or to Extend your wireless network? What type of WLAN are you using: 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz or dual-band? Keep this in mind: The theoretical data transfer rate of a 5 GHz 802.11n wireless network is higher, but the WLAN signal is weaker and the network range is smaller.

Did you ever try to use another channel for your wireless network? The default setting is “Automatic”, which might not always be the best option.

Werner.

[Bonky]

Hi Werner; many thanks.

I'm away from home at present so am doing this all from memory...

...the iMac is connected via ethernet to a BT Homehub (router). Another ethernet cable goes to an A Extreme in bridge mode. Even though one of the AEs is only a metre away from this, it is linked by wireless as I cannot get the ethernet to work for longer than a few minutes. There are two other AEs in other rooms, also linked by wireless.

The Extreme is in bridge mode and is in 'new network mode'.
The expresses are in extend network mode; IV6 is set to 'link local'.


Dual Band set-up.

I seem to have tried all permutations and from what I read on the web these problems are common.


We are all waiting for an Apple firmware upgrade.....

Thanks again,,



Richard.
QUOTE=Werner Berghofer;598441]Richard,

what kind of device do you use to create (establish) your WLAN: an Airport Extreme or an Airport Express? And are the Express stations setup to Join or to Extend your wireless network? What type of WLAN are you using: 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz or dual-band? Keep this in mind: The theoretical data transfer rate of a 5 GHz 802.11n wireless network is higher, but the WLAN signal is weaker and the network range is smaller.

Did you ever try to use another channel for your wireless network? The default setting is “Automatic”, which might not always be the best option.

Werner.[/QUOTE]

[Werner Berghofer]

Richard,


We are all waiting for an Apple firmware upgrade.....

I hope the best for you, but I’m not sure if your network problems can be solved with a new firmware. Your setup seems quite complicated as far as I can tell from my very distant point of view, and deep down there must be a serious (hardware?) problem, which unfortunately I can’t detect from where I’m located.

Allow me to show you a map of the WLAN used in my home and to add a few explanations and comments regarding each device and its purpose:

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/wlan_map.jpg

Wireless Internet connectivity is provided by a Huawai LTE B593 router. It delivers an average connection speed of approximately 100 megabit per second. Although this router offers its own WLAN/WiFi features, I disabled them and use the Huawai device only as a modem, because I prefer to create my WLAN with the Airport Extreme base station. In an Apple-only ecosystem I think the best choice is to use an Apple base station to create a WLAN, because Apple WiFi devices don’t cooperate good with WiFi devices from other manufacturers.

• Rumpelzimmer (junk room), an Airport Extreme 802.11n (2nd generation) base station, is located in my office. It establishes a 802.11n (802.11b/g compatible) 2.4 GHz WLAN. The connection to the LTE router/modem is done via Ethernet. Also attached via Ethernet to this Airport Extreme are a desktop iMac 27", a MacBook Pro 13" (used for music playback via iTunes and as AirPrint server (http://www.ecamm.com/mac/printopia/) for occasional printing from an iOS device) and a Kyocera laser printer. A 500 GB harddisk for shared network access is connected via USB.

• Bibliothek (library) extends the WLAN. It’s used as AirPlay target, connected via Toslink to a Schiit Bifrost DAC (http://schiit.com/products/bifrost) which in turn feeds an SPL Phonitor 2 (http://www.thomann.de/gb/spl_phonitor_2_silver.htm) headphone amplifier. A comfortable chair next to this is my preferred place for headphone listening.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/phonitor_and_t1.jpg

The headphone rig

• Danis Büro (Dani’s office) joins the WLAN. It connects the Epson Stylus Photo R300 inkjet printer via USB to the network.

• Schlafzimmer (bedroom) extends the WLAN. It increased the network range as long as it worked in 802.11n only 5 GHz mode, but I’m not sure if this extension still is required after switching my WLAN to 2.4 GHz 802.11n (802.11b/g compatible).

• Upper hub is located in the living room in the upper floor. This is an Airport Extreme 802.11n (4th generation) and is setup to extend the WLAN. A Western Digital media player (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=1270) with two three terabyte harddisks and an Elgato EyeTV network tuner (https://www.elgato.com/en/eyetv/eyetv-netstream-4sat) are connected via Ethernet to this device. The EyeTV network tuner allows streaming of satellite TV to Mac OS computers and iOS devices. Also a quite long Ethernet cable is connected to this base station for recording HD TV to a MacBook Pro 17". Streaming/recording of standard definition TV works fine wirelessly, but for HD TV the WLAN bandwith is not sufficient, no matter what Apple claims. An Ethernet cable connection is much more reliable in this case.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/living_room1.jpg

The living room upstairs

• Wohnzimmer (living room) joins the WLAN and is the second AirPlay target. It’s connected via Toslink to another Schiit Bifrost DAC, which delivers an analogue audio signal to an ancient Yamaha integrated amplifier, a classic stereo setup.

• Werners Büro (Werner’s office) is located downstairs, just below my desk. Its only purpose is to act as the third AirPlay target (“Join a wireless network” option). Toslink connection to yet another Bifrost DAC, analogue connection to a Schiit Asgard 2 (http://schiit.com/products/asgard-2) pre/headphone amp feeding an active KRK Rokit 5 (http://www.krksys.com/krk-studio-monitor-speakers/rokit/rokit-5.html) nearfield 2.1 setup on my desk. The DAC also is connected via USB to my iMac; a simple toggle button allows me to select the Airport Express (Toslink) or the iMac (USB) as sound source. The DAC on my desk is the only model with USB and optical inputs.

http://www.berghofer.com/photos/gear/desk_december_2011.jpg

My desk

Music streaming works flawlessly to any of the three AirPlay targets, no matter if just one or all three are addressed simultaneously. Usually one or two times a weak a very short drop-out (not more than two or three seconds) can occur when streaming from my office downstairs to the stereo upstairs in the living room, and oddly enough this only happens during the late afternoon or the early evening hours. So far there never have been any drop-outs when streaming to the nearfield setup on my desk or the headphone rig, but these are located on the same floor as the audio source. The wireless signal has to travel a longer and more complex route upstairs to the living room. Please note that none of the AirPlay targets are connected via Ethernet, audio streaming actually happens exclusively wireless.

Most of the time I access the iTunes computer placed in a corner of my office via the “Remote” app for iOS on an iPad or my iPhone 4. Occasionally I connect to it via screen sharing from the iMac on my desk or the MacBook Pro 17". To my ears music has never sounded better and never has been more convenient to access and store than just now.

Hope this helps and gives you some suggestions,

Werner.

[Bonky]

Dear Werner,

so many thanks for such a full and long answer. I really appreciate it!

I will fiddle with a few more settings when I return home.

I know of others who use the Extreme for WLAN and switch-off the router's wireless signal; not something I have done yet, but will try later.

I've also yet to try the laptop's wireless signal to the Extreme.

Just so we cannot be accused of writing in the wrong forum, please may I reiterate my original question...has anyone experience with timing or other problems with AEs and Caiman2?

Perhaps I can PM you if I have any further queries on this matter?

Thanks again,

Yours,

Richard.

[Werner Berghofer]

Richard,

Perhaps I can PM you if I have any further queries on this matter?
anytime, of course! But keep in mind that I don’t use any Beresford DACs in my setup. My first stand-alone DAC was a Beresford Caiman, and I experienced no connectivity problems similar to yours, but this was more than five years ago with different computers and WiFi hardware, firmware and older operating system versions.

Werner.

[Bonky]

Thanks to Werner (again) for spurring me on to even more experimentation.

I'm glad to report that matters are now much better.

If it helps anyone else:

Airport Extreme is in bridge mode. IV6 is set to 'local-link'. Wireless set to 'Create a wireless network'. Router mode is 'Bridge'.

All 3 expresses are in wireless mode and set to 'extend a wireless network'. I thought I had set all 3 to Iv6= 'Local-Link" but they seem to have reverted to 'automatic'.

I tried linking one AE to the Express by ethernet, but the connection soon 'stammered'.

Now, to revert to the OP:

I then connected one AE to the Bushmaster DAC by TosLink and I still got the same timing issues as before (repeated drop-outs). If the AE is connected to the amp then all is well.

If anyone has the Caiman 2 and AEs I would welcome any news that the 'timing issues' are still there, or, hopefully, resolved.

Many thanks,

Richard.

[Werner Berghofer]

Richard,

I then connected one AE to the Bushmaster DAC by TosLink and I still got the same timing issues as before (repeated drop-outs). If the AE is connected to the amp then all is well.
just out of curiosity: Did you ever try to use any other DAC in your setup to see if you experience the same problems?

Werner.

[Bonky]

Hi,
Only the Caiman one..exactly the same problem.

Interestingly, the Sqeezebox is linked by Ethernet to the Bushmaster... And all works fine.

Just as I am writing this the AE in the front room has started stammering again... And then seemingly reset itself.

It is now OK.
Ho hum!

Thanks again,

Richard


Richard,

just out of curiosity: Did you ever try to use any other DAC in your setup to see if you experience the same problems?

Werner.

[Werner Berghofer]

Richard,

Just as I am writing this the AE in the front room has started stammering again... And then seemingly reset itself.
maybe it’s time to look for a Voodoo witch or maybe an exorcist ;-)

Or, even better yet: Forget about all that digital, file-based computer crap and switch back to vinyl.

Werner.

[Bonky]

Yep, I use both...!

Richard

[DNE]

Hi Guys,

I have a few AE's for streaming music around the flat, I did have one troublesome AE/DAC set-up and went through all the troubleshooting steps you have mentioned; In the end I use an Apple TV instead of the AEX and it works fine with the DAC :) I think the AE's have low end processors..... but not too sure.

The Apple TV will connect to your wireless network but I connect all my AE's and Apple TV's using Devolo Ethernet over power/mains sockets and never experience dropouts.

Hope this helps....

[Bonky]

Hi Dean, thanks for that. I've heard of others using the Apple TV with the same result, so it must be something else to try.

At present all is well with my system. I get the first 'stammer' after 90 mins or so - and I can live with that.


Thanks again,
Richard.
Hi Guys,

I have a few AE's for streaming music around the flat, I did have one troublesome AE/DAC set-up and went through all the troubleshooting steps you have mentioned; In the end I use an Apple TV instead of the AEX and it works fine with the DAC :) I think the AE's have low end processors..... but not too sure.

The Apple TV will connect to your wireless network but I connect all my AE's and Apple TV's using Devolo Ethernet over power/mains sockets and never experience dropouts.

Hope this helps....

[Bonky]

Just to answer my OP. (Does the Caiman2 + Apple Airport Express suffer drop-out/'stammering')

I've found someone at last with both items...


... it's me!

Stan's latest DAC has been plugged in now for an hour and after a few 'stammers' in the first few seconds - all seems well!

I'm pleased.

Richard.