View Full Version : SME 309
hoopsontoast
16-11-2014, 21:20
Whats the going price for a Second Hand SME 309?
A new one is well out of my reach but I am after an upgrade to my RB300 for the Gyrodec.
Ive looked into a J7 rebuild and the Audiomod arms, as well as the Tecnoarm, but the SME 309 seems a good entry into the SME market, and is supposed to be a perfect match for the Gyro.
The market for SME arms is pretty mature, because the arms have been around, unchanged, for so long. With the 309 the only change that matters is from the earlier aluminium armtube to the magnesium tube version...which was introduced without any model change or fuss. I ought to know when that happened, but can't remember.
The point is...you will tend to get what you pay for. IMO buying the cheapest is not such a good idea, because there is often quite a small price difference with younger, better arms.
So, forget 'bargains'...the SME market has few of those...and spend as much as you can afford. It's one of those situations where that makes good sense. Look for the original box and tools, and check the age with the factory. If it's an early, aluminium, version, pay only a very competitive price. Personally, I like the aluminium armtube, but that's just me.
BTW: I've heard that SME prices will go up in the New Year, that could have a knock-on for second hand prices.
I like the 309 very much and my experiences are with the earlier one, assuming there's any real, rather than production-cost difference between them. I also like the Rega RB300 on decks like yours, so if a good 309 is difficult to come by, why not keep a spare eye out for a used upper model RB arm too, as they are better looking and offer superior exit wiring. Current top model Rega arms are incredibly inert structures by all accounts (tests in HFW) and, where the SME 309 and siblings haven't really been changed overmuch (apart from the latest fashions in wiring), the RB arms have been re-worked at least twice now and from an engineering viewpoint, rather than flavour-of-the-month. Just saying like :)
The market for SME arms is pretty mature, because the arms have been around, unchanged, for so long. With the 309 the only change that matters is from the earlier aluminium armtube to the magnesium tube version...which was introduced without any model change or fuss. I ought to know when that happened, but can't remember.
The point is...you will tend to get what you pay for. IMO buying the cheapest is not such a good idea, because there is often quite a small price difference with younger, better arms.
So, forget 'bargains'...the SME market has few of those...and spend as much as you can afford. It's one of those situations where that makes good sense. Look for the original box and tools, and check the age with the factory. If it's an early, aluminium, version, pay only a very competitive price. Personally, I like the aluminium armtube, but that's just me.
BTW: I've heard that SME prices will go up in the New Year, that could have a knock-on for second hand prices.
This is good advice , have you considered an SME M2-9 about £700 new and a real billy bargain in the world of SME arms ,
cheers
Paul
I'm going to get J7 to upgrade my 250 when funds allow as I think it a very good base arm; better than the 300. Gazjam has a technoarm on his Gyro and it is the business.
hoopsontoast
17-11-2014, 07:43
This is good advice , have you considered an SME M2-9 about £700 new and a real billy bargain in the world of SME arms ,
cheers
Paul
Interesting, I had not. I shall have a look around!
IME, the Audio Note Arm One II was better than an SME IV, when compared directly on a range of TTs and cartridges ... I owned both at the same time, so had plenty of time to evaluate. I believe it sells for around £600.
http://www.bd-audio.co.uk/audio-note-arm-one-tone-arm.html
http://www.decoaudio.com/deco_audio_tonearms1.html (Scroll down to bottom)
I have never owned a Gyro, but the only potential problem might be that the 'One' lead-out cable is rather chunky for the Gyro's wibbly-wobbly suspension ... Deco would advise. The next model up is the 'Two', which has a very flexible silver cable for a couple of hundred quid more.
Seriously recommended! It's available in Gyro silver, too ...
IME, the Audio Note Arm One II was better than an SME IV, when compared directly on a range of TTs and cartridges ... I owned both at the same time, so had plenty of time to evaluate. I believe it sells for around £600.
http://www.bd-audio.co.uk/audio-note-arm-one-tone-arm.html
http://www.decoaudio.com/deco_audio_tonearms1.html (Scroll down to bottom)
I have never owned a Gyro, but the only potential problem might be that the 'One' lead-out cable is rather chunky for the Gyro's wibbly-wobbly suspension ... Deco would advise. The next model up is the 'Two', which has a very flexible silver cable for a couple of hundred quid more.
Seriously recommended! It's available in Gyro silver, too ...
That is a nice problem to have!:cool:
I'm told the SME prices are going up by the following: arms 10%. Model 10, 4%. '20 series decks' 10%. '30 series' decks, 7%. I believe those prices are accurate, but I can't guarantee it. I think the price rises come in February.
The smaller rise for the model 10 makes we wonder if they have chosen to keep the current model, because the gap between the 10 and 20 now 'stretches', potentially leaving a gap for a new model with three point suspension (model 15?). That is just speculation on my part, but I hope the current Model 10 does stay, as people do like the simplicity.
One other thing, the factory is no longer going to supply dealers with the arms minus the armlead. From now on, they have to buy the complete package. So anyone planning to buy the arm, minus lead, from a dealer, would be wise to get a move on.
I assume that in the longer term, retail price rises will have an impact on second-hand prices, but not immediately. I would guess that the quite large price increases are related to the strength of the pound. So many sales are overseas.
I'm told the SME prices are going up by the following: arms 10%. Model 10, 4%. '20 series decks' 10%. '30 series' decks, 7%. I believe those prices are accurate, but I can't guarantee it. I think the price rises come in February.
The smaller rise for the model 10 makes we wonder if they have chosen to keep the current model, because the gap between the 10 and 20 now 'stretches', potentially leaving a gap for a new model with three point suspension (model 15?). That is just speculation on my part, but I hope the current Model 10 does stay, as people do like the simplicity.
One other thing, the factory is no longer going to supply dealers with the arms minus the armlead. From now on, they have to buy the complete package. So anyone planning to buy the arm, minus lead, from a dealer, would be wise to get a move on.
I assume that in the longer term, retail price rises will have an impact on second-hand prices, but not immediately. I would guess that the quite large price increases are related to the strength of the pound. So many sales are overseas.
The Model 15 has been confirmed...at about £5,400 without arm. So the Model 10 does stay in the range. Good dedcision surely. the price rises are on February 1st, the new Model 15, with three-point suspension, in April. So, if yoiu are planning to buy an SME product, before February will save money. And if you are planning to sell an SME product, could be worth waiting until the higher prices are reflected on the second-hand market.
Spectral Morn
20-11-2014, 16:10
The SME 309 is a lovely arm, which can be upgraded re the addition of a fluid damping trough. Early one wasn't magnesium nor VDH wired (better than the newer one less damped. and more open sounding), though it came with a VDH arm-cable (yuck), don't use the VDH arm cable get something better otherwise you wont hear the arm fully imho.
I can't get over the price now 3 times what I paid for mine back in the day - if I recall right I paid £550.
Vastly superior to a Rega RB300 but in saying that synergy is all and a great arm can be bettered by a poorer one if the poorer arm complements the turntable better than the dearer one. Point in case back then I had a Voyd Valdi, RB300 and a VDH MC10. I upgraded to an SME 309 but it wasn't an upgrade, it sounded much worse. An Oracle Delphi mk four came along I fitted the 309 to it, worked brilliantly together and got shot of the Valdi and RB300.
Thing is while the RB300 is a good arm its not in my experience better than an SME 309.
Regards Neil
hoopsontoast
25-11-2014, 08:30
Thanks for the advice, I shall be looking out for a 309 :)
Floyddroid
30-11-2014, 16:19
I always thought SME's were the dogs until i put a Jelco on my Lenco. You get an awful lot for your money and at the inth of SME money. Just sayen!
I always thought SME's were the dogs until i put a Jelco on my Lenco. You get an awful lot for your money and at the inth of SME money. Just sayen!
Steve, I have a 750D (Oyaide headshell, Shuggie collar, Isokinetic counterweight, Yannis Tome wiring). I have been toying with the idea of an 'upgrade' to a SME M2-9 when funds allow. Have you compared those two?
I always thought SME's were the dogs until i put a Jelco on my Lenco. You get an awful lot for your money and at the inth of SME money. Just sayen!
100% Agree
Beobloke
04-12-2014, 12:59
I always thought SME's were the dogs until i put a Jelco on my Lenco. You get an awful lot for your money and at the inth of SME money. Just sayen!
It's quite true - the Jelco SA-750D is a magnificent device. It's still not as good as an SME 309, though. IMHO, of course! ;)
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