New speakers to match Musical Fidelity M61 amp

[peter haynes]

Hello all

Looking for advice on floorstanding speakers to go with MF 6i amp.

A few months ago I replaced my old damaged speakers with Dali Zensor 5's - then a month ago splashed out on MF 6i amp :mental: - was next going to replace Marantz cd63 mk 2 KI sig cd player, but consensus seems to be that the speakers need to be replaced next :doh:(advice on how to tell wife 2 month old speakers no good also appreciated !!)

Going to have to sell/trade in Dali's to help pay for new speakers - total budget incl trade in is prob £1k max

Listen to all sorts of music but generally rock - Zep, Sabbath, Wildhearts, rammstein etc etc(see my welcome entry for more)

Thanks for any help and advice you can give me folks:scratch:

Peter

[Macca]

What was wrong with the Dali's? What is it they do that you don't you like?
Does it have to be new speakers or would you consider used?

[struth]

would think the dalis would be good with the mf6. might need a bit of room at the back to get the best out of them though

[Macca]

would think the dalis would be good with the mf6. might need a bit of room at the back to get the best out of them though

That's what Peter has already and he's not keen on it.

[struth]

yeh i was trying to find out why i guess as they should work. just thought the bass might be the problem and giving them more air might improve them. dat was all:)

[Macca]

I see, apologies. Anyway they look pretty capable especially for the money asked (£550). Given musical choice I would want something altogether 'beefier' speaker-wise, I think. Not sure what that would be brand new for a grand though, which is why I asked about second-hand. With the exception of a few models like Tannoy DC, big speakers are like big cars you can get them pretty cheap on the used market.

[DSJR]

That godawful CD player MUST go - scrappy 'HiFi' sounding thing :spew: :trust me:

You're losing so much music in that player. My policy is to avoid ANYTHING that 'KI' has had a hand in. He's certainly no guru IMO, whatever kind of impression he created as he used to waft round audio shows with fawning acolytes in tow...

[peter haynes]

Thanks for responses folks - I just dont think the Dalis are quite up to the new amp - the cd player will go next year. I am all for a good pair of second hand speakers.
Cheers
Peter

[peter haynes]

Hi Dave
Agreed- it will go but I think a change of speakers first
Cheers
Peter

[peter haynes]

Thanks Martin
I am more than happy with second hand
Peter

[peter haynes]

Hi Grant
Just think need a bit better speaker now, much as I love the appearance of the Dalis. The cd player or speakers need to change and I think the speakers will be first
Peter

[Spectral Morn]

That godawful CD player MUST go - scrappy 'HiFi' sounding thing :spew: :trust:

You're losing so much music in that player. My policy is to avoid ANYTHING that 'KI' has had a hand in. He's certainly no guru IMO, whatever kind of impression he created as he used to waft round audio shows with fawning acolytes in tow...

Once again. Dave knock of the personal attacks against Ken, way too many imo over the last few years. You don't like the sound of Marantz players fine but frankly keep your opinions re Ken to yourself, most of which you have expressed here on AOS are ill-conceived and ignorant in my opinion.

[Spectral Morn]

I hate to say it but amplifiers and speakers go hand in hand and there must be synergy between them and the front end. In my view buying kit in isolation, if that is what happened here is a mistake, always audition the system to be first before buying and if possible, the ideal, audition in your own system first at home.

I personally don't like the MF sound any more and if the amp in question has their now days upfront, metal fist in a velvet glove - velvet wearing thin - sound/presentation then the Dalis probably were not the best choice unless you want a somewhat upfront, neutral sound. At a guess this set up is fatiguing, over long listening sessions and especially with somewhat compressed rock music.

I haven't heard enough current stuff to offer practical advice other than to emphasise arranging a demo and take all three items in and try swapping till you find a match. Then try it at home. Then buy.

The Marantz CD player should in my view be left powered up 24/7 it will sound better, however while a good one it can be bettered.



Regards Neil

[steve s]

I've got the MF M3i... great amps, these M series Musical Fidelity's and will drive anything.

I'm using a pair of custom build, D'Marken mini onken's (yeah I know, I'd never heard of them either) which I got from Ali Tait on here. They sound absolutely 'stunning' paired with the M3i. They're only small 'bookies' but that's all I've got room for.

The point I'm making is, why not check out the DIYers on here and see what they might have. I seem to remember a pair of Edingdales posted FS not so long back. I don't know them but I think they're floorstanders and quite a few AOS members have them.

Just a thought, I had a very positive first experience with 'homebuilds' and reckon I'd have paid three times as much for a commercial equivalent ... sound wise or build wise... to my lovely's !!

Steve

[steve s]

Nothing else to add ... just wanted to see if my 100th post on AOS is a life changing experience or not !!............. let you know later guys ;)

UPDATE........ Hey, I'm a senior member now, that feels slightly life changing anyway :cool:

[DSJR]

Once again. Dave knock of the personal attacks against Ken, way too many imo over the last few years. You don't like the sound of Marantz players fine but frankly keep your opinions re Ken to yourself, most of which you have expressed here on AOS are ill-conceived and ignorant in my opinion.

Why Neil? I'm only telling as I've heard and been told it (Uncle Ants on PFM was even more scathing I remember) - I have no gurus to look up to in audio now and I DON't like stuff that holds his 'Signature' at a premium price over their stock gear... Ah, I see you're a moderator here again. OK, you win. Best I divert my attention elsewhere now as you've had an agenda over the years where I'm concerned... Don't worry, I'll try not to cross your path again!

[struth]

Nothing else to add ... just wanted to see if my 100th post on AOS is a life changing experience or not !!............. let you know later guys ;)

UPDATE........ Hey, I'm a senior member now, that feels slightly life changing anyway :cool:

nice one Steve. it didn't take too long.:D

[peter haynes]

Thanks to all for your input - sadly, life is a bit more complicated on the Isle of Wight and to arrange a home demo here would be the same as you folks on mainland sorting out a trip to the moon!!(we have lived here 14 years now and next year a move back to the mainland is being planned:D)
It is always good to get lots of opinions and as always in my view- what is good and what is bad is very subjective.
Health issues prevent me from travelling much for the next 6 months so auditions at say Southampton are also out - the plus side is I have 6 months of doing very little other than listening to music . I therefore will have to buy 'blind' if i am to attempt to improve sound.
Thanks again to all for the debate
Cheers
Peter

[bob4333]

Hello all

Looking for advice on floorstanding speakers to go with MF 6i amp. Peter

Peter, I don't have your amp but my MF pre and power worked really well with a pair of B+W CM7's.

I paid around £900 for them new: they went off to Slovenia via ebay for £600 in the end. They've been superseded now but could be worth a look if this sort of thing appeals to you. Soundstaging was a major strength. Some of my musical tastes are not unlike your own.

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee481/bob4333/Old%20HiFi/0.jpg (http://s1230.photobucket.com/user/bob4333/media/Old%20HiFi/0.jpg.html)

Had these for a good few years before buying my present ProAc speakers which again are a very good match for MF amplification. Used D18's might fall within what you want to spend perhaps?

Good luck with your search.

[Marco]

That godawful CD player MUST go - scrappy 'HiFi' sounding thing :spew: :trust:

You're losing so much music in that player. My policy is to avoid ANYTHING that 'KI' has had a hand in.


A bit strong, Dave, no? Good job that Peter’s not the ‘precious’ type, when it comes to his kit! ;)


He's certainly no guru IMO, whatever kind of impression he created as he used to waft round audio shows with fawning acolytes in tow...

Does that description also remind you of someone else you know a bit closer to home? :eyebrows:

Marco.

[jandl100]

Double post - weird!

See below. :)

[jandl100]

Hello all

Looking for advice on floorstanding speakers to go with MF 6i amp.

A few months ago I replaced my old damaged speakers with Dali Zensor 5's - then a month ago splashed out on MF 6i amp :mental: - was next going to replace Marantz cd63 mk 2 KI sig cd player, but consensus seems to be that the speakers need to be replaced next :doh:(advice on how to tell wife 2 month old speakers no good also appreciated !!)

Going to have to sell/trade in Dali's to help pay for new speakers - total budget incl trade in is prob £1k max

Listen to all sorts of music but generally rock - Zep, Sabbath, Wildhearts, rammstein etc etc(see my welcome entry for more)

Thanks for any help and advice you can give me folks:scratch:

Peter

:scratch:

I'm a bit lost here, Peter.

You don't appear to say what you find wrong with your Dali speakers ... without that it's a bit like pinning the tail on the donkey blindfold!

What are you looking for in your new speakers?

And what sort of sound are you after anyway?

- what systems/speakers have you heard that you like better, and why?

Go on, give us a clue! ;)


--- my guess, though, given your choice of electronics, is that you like a ballsy, dynamic, upfront sound and the fairly small Dali speakers aren't up to delivering that. Is that right?

[Effem]

Thanks to all for your input - sadly, life is a bit more complicated on the Isle of Wight and to arrange a home demo here would be the same as you folks on mainland sorting out a trip to the moon!!(we have lived here 14 years now and next year a move back to the mainland is being planned:D)
It is always good to get lots of opinions and as always in my view- what is good and what is bad is very subjective.
Health issues prevent me from travelling much for the next 6 months so auditions at say Southampton are also out - the plus side is I have 6 months of doing very little other than listening to music . I therefore will have to buy 'blind' if i am to attempt to improve sound.
Thanks again to all for the debate
Cheers
Peter

I feel for you Peter, I really do.

I will proffer my opinion now and see if it helps.

The Marantz CD player is fine in the RIGHT system, the MF amp is fine in the RIGHT system and the Dali speakers are fine in the RIGHT system, but unfortunately I don't think they live in perfect harmony within one system - as you are no doubt finding out.

I will take a stab at getting you on track without costing an arm and a leg in the process.

My first choice then is to replace the Marantz player with a Pioneer PD-10K which has a more sophisticated sound than the Marantz in my opinion and as a bonus plays SACDs too. Available on ebay for less than £150 and I'm sticking my neck out by saying this, it could change the sound enough to leave it at that. Hard to make other people's choices for them.

Musical Fidelity is not my favourite marque to be honest, having been disappointed with the models I've had in the past. Had experience with Dali speakers myself and the Suite 2.8s are still my favourite speakers and would have them again if I had the room like I used to have. Had the Dali Ikon 5s and they were pants with an undersized bass driver married to a double tweeter arrangement in a small enclosure, yet the Ikon 6 model was awesome.

If it were me then, I would change the amplifier to something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Astin-Trew-AT2000-Integrated-amplifier-2-hours-use-only-/131349111786?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item1e950463ea which I say will outperform the MF and put a shilling or two back in your pocket selling the MF

I could be wrong of course, but the Pioneer and Astin Trew pairing at the front end MIGHT change your perceptions of the Dali speakers, because I don't think there is anything intrinsically "wrong" with them and driven differently they could sound a lot better.

What's also missing from the puzzle in your query is what cabling are you using? That could have a bearing on the sound as well.

[The Black Adder]

I had the Dali Helicon 800 MKII's once upon a time, 7k's worth and they were brill. I did manage to use them with my MF X-A200 monos and found that the match wasn't good. I then tried a Chord amp and it was like chalk and cheese, the Chord was much better.

[vouk]

I know (and asked) quite a few people that use MF gear in this part of the world; Proacs, Spendors and, to a lesser extent, Kef and Wilson Benesch seem to be their speakers of choice. One of them has had great results with Sonus Faber speakers, moving from the Grand Piano to the Toy towers.

[icehockeyboy]

I paired my MF to PMC FB1+, they sounded good together.

[Havana]

The KEF R series might suit you...well worth a listen...

[peter haynes]

[QUOTE=Marco;597277]A bit strong, Dave, no? Good job that Peter’s not the ‘precious’ type, when it comes to his kit! ;)


I dont mind at all what people think about my kit - that is why I joined to hear some views about all sorts of kit. Actually, I've got to agree with Dave - should never have bought it in first place. Had it about 10 years now but it will be ggone by next year
Thanks again for input
Peter

[peter haynes]

Cable Tale 3 speaker wire
Cable talk professional interconnects - both some 15/16 years old

[peter haynes]

Thanks for response Jerry
Actually I find the Dalis a bit too upfront + would like more detailed bass and deeper and a smoother sound
Peter

[Spectral Morn]

Thanks for response Jerry
Actually I find the Dalis a bit too upfront + would like more detailed bass and deeper and a smoother sound
Peter

which is what I thought, don't go B&W, Triangle, or with Monitor Audio. Spendor is a possibility, Proac may be, and if this had been ten years ago I would have said Ruark


Regards Neil

[Macca]

I would still say Ruark given Peter is happy to look at the second-hand options. Some Talisman II in good condition would be less than half the budget.

[Effem]

Actually I find the Dalis a bit too upfront + would like more detailed bass and deeper and a smoother sound
Peter

Are you sure though that it's the Dali's that are giving you that sound?

As DSJR said, the CD player is not the best and if I may also quote the Dalek in a previous post:


"I personally don't like the MF sound any more and if the amp in question has their now days upfront, metal fist in a velvet glove - velvet wearing thin - sound/presentation then the Dalis probably were not the best choice unless you want a somewhat upfront, neutral sound. At a guess this set up is fatiguing, over long listening sessions and especially with somewhat compressed rock music."

Therefore, I wouldn't wish it upon you to dump the Dalis as the prime suspect, only to discover later that they were fine. Been there, done that.

Shame you don't have anyone local for a private bakeoff to sort out what's what in your system :(

[jandl100]

Hmm ... as you seem to welcome honest opinion, and despite what your wife might say, I suspect you need a complete system re-think, Peter. :(

You don't seem to have picked up any kit that is really suitable for you, tbh, with the possible exception of the speakers you have decided need changing. Nice cables, though - I like the cables!

As a stopgap until your health situation improves and you can visit a good dealer on the 'mainland' (which is a hard thing for a box-swapper like me to recommend, but I would advocate in your case!) have you tried class D amplification?

I have a spare Amptastic Mini-T that I would be happy to loan you to try out.
- single input, no remote control, but many people (including yours truly) find it sounds excellent. I think it will tick several boxes on your sonic Want List.
- and it is very small - postage cost is near negligible
- worth a try? I'm happy to loan it if you are interested. :)

[brian2957]

+1 for the Amptastic . It may be right down your street :)

[Effem]

Hmm ... as you seem to welcome honest opinion, and despite what your wife might say, I suspect you need a complete system re-think, Peter. :(

You don't seem to have picked up any kit that is really suitable for you, tbh, with the possible exception of the speakers you have decided need changing. Nice cables, though - I like the cables!

As a stopgap until your health situation improves and you can visit a good dealer on the 'mainland' (which is a hard thing for a box-swapper like me to recommend, but I would advocate in your case!) have you tried class D amplification?

I have a spare Amptastic Mini-T that I would be happy to loan you to try out.
- single input, no remote control, but many people (including yours truly) find it sounds excellent. I think it will tick several boxes on your sonic Want List.
- and it is very small - postage cost is near negligible
- worth a try? I'm happy to loan it if you are interested. :)

:clapclapclap:

Kind offer Jerry :)

[Barry]

I have no idea how the Amptastic would perform with the Dali's, however I can say it works very well into B&W DM2A's.

[steve s]

Thanks for response Jerry
Actually I find the Dalis a bit too upfront + would like more detailed bass and deeper and a smoother sound
Peter

If the M6i is anything like my M3i and you're finding your existing sound too upfront and lacking in detail and depth, it won't be your amp that's the problem IMO. Detail, depth and refinement are some of the finest qualities of the Musical Fidelity M series amps. I would guess at the M6i deserving a better speaker to bring out the best in it... and that's not knocking the Dali's which I know are a good speaker ... just not sure they're in the same class as the MF amp.

'madscientist' has got a pair of Neat Elite SE's up for sale for £700 over on Private Exhibitions ..... they would sound pretty good with the M6i I would imagine.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?35127-For-Sale-Neat-Elite-SE-speakers

Whatever you decide to do, if I can be of any assistance, during your current health situation, in getting gear over to you from the mainland, I live less than a mile from the Lymington ferry. I would happily put some floorstanders in the motor and run them over for the cost of the ticket, if any prospective vendor got them to me or close by. Just something to bear in mind incase such a situation arose.

Steve

[peter haynes]

Cheers Jerry- at least I got cables right and have had them for some 15 odd years - ironic eh - bought them to go with an Arcam Delta290 and I think I had a Pioneer cd - probably better than anything I have had since. Mind you, I am starting to get a feeling for this box swapping - must be contagious.:lol:
Anyways that is a very kind offer you are making regarding the loan and I would be very pleased to accept - will private message you with my details etc
I am always open to honest opinion, even if it does sometimes hurt - It is after all just one persons opinion and can be taken or ignored - in view of my position regarding auditions I prefer to take all comments on board and then make a judgement - this forum has been invaluable to me:)
I''m still not sure about the speakers(and I auditioned them but then hadnt got MF amp) - have tried them with my sons old Sony amp and still not convinced - the mini T should certainly help me to see if want to keep speakers. My wife would be chuffed to bits if I replaced the MF with a cheaper amp.
I think you are right about waiting until I can get back on mainland to do proper auditions of kit - Should be back in action in April so not too long to wait.
Thanks again for your kindness - much appreciated :)
Peter

[peter haynes]

Thanks Steve:)

[struth]

Try pulling the Dali's away from the wall a bit if you can Peter.

[peter haynes]

Thanks Grant - have played around with them and at moment about 6" from rear wall - seems to give optimum performance

[Andrei]

Hi Peter
Just read this thread with interest. I say 'with interest' because all your components are excellent yet ...
It seems the problem is to find out what is the problem. I can make two generic comments. The first is that speakers make the most difference so swapping the Dalis can be expected to change the sound ... hopefully for the better. I'm afraid I can't make a particular recommendation but before you splash out please read the December issue of Hi-Fi Choice magazine that has a shootout of 6 floorstanders including the Dali Zensor 7s. There are some useful insights there.
My second generic comment relates to the Marantz. Many brands have a 'house sound' and Marantz is certainly one of those. They use their own propriety HDAM amplifier circuits. It is a sound however that is not for everyone, so maybe not for you. An Oppo 95 or 105, or Cambridge Audio 751 BD or 752BD would be options. Incidentally the article I mentioned recommends the Audiolab 8200CD, which is probably the best option (but it does not play back SACD).

I see you have had your cables for yonks. You may wish to service them. This is nothing more than removing them, giving a quick clean with Caigs Deoxit to the spades/bananas, RCAs, and binding posts and re-inserting.

[peter haynes]

Hi Andrei
Thanks for your input - I think the Marantz CD player is certainly something thats got to go next year. Funnily enough, I nearly bought an Audiolab 8200cd a month ago, but backed out as I thought I needed to audition to avoid anymore mistakes. Will certainly get Dec edition of HiFi Choice and have a read Thanks
Pter

[peter haynes]

Thanks to Jerry's very kind offer, I can listen to the Dalis with different amplification next week - will report back
Just also thought I'd add that my old speakers were TDL RTL 3 - big beasts really
Thanks to all
Peter :cool:

[jandl100]

Just also thought I'd add that my old speakers were TDL RTL 3 - big beasts really


Ah, interesting, Peter.
Do you still have them?

I heard some TDL speakers a while back, can't recall the model but very similar to yours, which had had the caps on the xover replaced/improved.

From a fairly slow and closed-in presentation the speaker morphed into a lively and transparent performer - just a thought if you or someone you know has the skills.

[peter haynes]

Hi Jerry
Havent got the TDL's anymore - I scrapped them doh:
I did enjoy them but as I bought them back in 1998 and the tweeters no longer worked, I thought it time for a replacement pair - little knowing that I would soon be getting a new amp also
Peter

[peter haynes]

Thanks to Jerry, I now have the little mini t to try out, and will connect it up shortly. I am also due to get the Musical Fidelity amp back tomorrow after nearly 3 weeks at MF(rectifying fault - the left channel kept cutting out and would only perform again if I turned up volume loud) - can then have a good listen to both. Will up date with my views then
Cheers
Peter:)

[DSJR]

The RTL3 mk1 had resistors across the bass-mid coils to pull down the mid (and the impedance too :(). Replacing these with higher value ones (33 ohms from distant memory) brought them to life and gave the driving amp a much easier time as well :) I still have a hugely soft spot for the original bubbly-veneer RTL2, which transcended it's cheapo-speaker roots...

[jandl100]

Thanks to Jerry, I now have the little mini t to try out, and will connect it up shortly.

Do it! Do it !! :popcorn: :)

[peter haynes]

Had a few hours now listening to mini t - first thoughts, pretty impressed:) MF should be delivered in next couple of hours so will be able to compare.
One thing I didnt mention was the amp I replaced was a Marantz PM 7200 KI signature - certainly the mini T is much much better with Dalis than the Marantz was:D

[Macca]

That really surprises me. Although I've only heard mini t once I was not at all impressed.

[istari_knight]

That really surprises me. Although I've only heard mini t once I was not at all impressed.

Have you heard a PM-7200 Martin ? "Horrible" is my one word review :eek:

The little Tripath amps are pretty good when used within their limitations IME.

[Spectral Morn]

Had a few hours now listening to mini t - first thoughts, pretty impressed:) MF should be delivered in next couple of hours so will be able to compare.
One thing I didnt mention was the amp I replaced was a Marantz PM 7200 KI signature - certainly the mini T is much much better with Dalis than the Marantz was:D

Marantz amplifiers are not that great imho/e, though there was the odd one that was good, poor current delivery in the budget ones and a fairly un-engaging sound in the rest.

It will be interesting to read what you think re the comparison between mini T and MF.


Regards Neil

[jandl100]

I'm not a fan of the Marantz 7200 either - it get's so much right in some ways, but makes the music sound dead.


That really surprises me. Although I've only heard mini t once I was not at all impressed.

I luv 'em with a passion. Great little amps, imo. The newer Amptastic Mini-1 is even better than the Mini-T in the bass - more powerful and extended. :thumbsup:

http://hifipig.com/amptastic-mini-1-amplifier/ ;)

[struth]

I'm not a fan of the Marantz 7200 either - it get's so much right in some ways, but makes the music sound dead.



I luv 'em with a passion. Great little amps, imo. The newer Amptastic Mini-1 is even better than the Mini-T in the bass - more powerful and extended. :thumbsup:

http://hifipig.com/amptastic-mini-1-amplifier/ ;)

Kinda pointless having a company making amps and you cant get one though Jerry?:(

[jandl100]

Oh yeah - I just looked at their website - "new stock due end November".

Must be popular! :D

Nice amp - worth waiting for!

[struth]

Oh yeah - I just looked at their website - "new stock due end November".

Must be popular! :D

Nice amp - worth waiting for!

thought it might be good with my tis

[peter haynes]

Hello all - well I've now had a good few hours listening to the Musical Fidelity M6i and the Mini T. The verdict? Whilst I like the mini t and the sound per pound represents incredible value for money, I am now loving the MF.
The fault it had was that the LHS channel often didn't kick in when first switched on, and I had to turn up volume loud with something playing to get it to work - it occasionally dropped out as well. When it worked I thought it was ok - now think this may not have been the case. I don't know what the engineers did at Musical Fidelity on the repair , but whatever it was, the amp now sounds great.
I still think I will be in the market for new speakers in the new year(either second hand or new - if new, will try and get to mainland to demo!) In the meantime I can now live with my system - will also look at new cd player next year as funds allow.
Thank you all for your input, and especially to Jerry for loaning me the Mini T.:)
Peter:D

[jandl100]

Thank you all for your input, and especially to Jerry for loaning me the Mini T.:)
Peter:D

No problem. :)

If anyone else would like a try with the Mini-T just let me know.

[peter haynes]

Hello all
Amp went faulty again so replaced this time - also managed to get back onto mainland and auditioned some speakers. Finished up with Focal Chrorus 836W - now very happy with sound.
Thanks again for all your advice