View Full Version : Buying "budget" kit or not? Help required.
Wow, making decisions is hard.
I need a cart and a pair of speakers. I have limited access to dealers (or at least they have a limited selection of kit), and to be honest without some kind of real idea of how things sound I would rather start small. But what the heck do I buy?
Here's where I am at... Problem 1: the cartridge.
My turntable is a Rock Elite II, to which I have now added a Trans-Fi Terminator tonearm (borrowed on a sale or return basis). I have not yet been able to test this particular combination, as I need a cart. I have listened to precious few alternatives, so am clueless about a sensible strategy. I have a Rega Aria, so can handle most MM/MC carts.
Problem 2: speakers.
I am currently speakerless. It is as painful as it sounds. Again my listening to alternatives has been limited, but from that limited knowledge I favour the full, clean, preciseness of most of the B&W floorstanders I have heard. But I have no real knowledge of how they sound compared to most other brands.
Should I punt for the best of what limited stuff I have heard, or do I grab some cheap stuff until I get a chance to more fully audition kit?
Anyone got any sagely advice on budget carts/speakers that will tide me over with some happiness until I get sorted?
The options are numerous and varied. How the heck do I decide? Am I over thinking this?
Sorry for the ramble, but my brain is melting. Although that could be the whisky.
If you could give some idea of budget David that would help a lot.
cheers Grant
The trouble I have, Grant, is I am not completely sure of budget. Here's the thing...
The B&Ws I referred to above included a pair of CM8s for about £1200. That's probably at the limit of what I would want to spend on speakers (would rather spend less, could be persuaded to spend more). But, it's a lot of cash to spend without having heard a number of alternatives. So my question is, do I try to buy a cheap/used pair as far below £200 as possible and live with that until I get what I want, or do I just leap for what I have heard.
To be honest, much of what I have is based on leaping, but I can't help but think there is a more sensible approach.
I appreciate that my idea of "cheap" might differ hugely from others - but I am not ever likely to be in the market for £1000 cables no matter how good they sound or otherwise!
I would be inclined to keep looking in the classifieds here as nice speakers come up all the time and probably better B&W . not that I dislike them. Often with big speakers you have to travel. There are a few nice pairs for sale at moment actually including royd sapphires and a hand crafted set that look and am sure will sound great. Both sets will leave you with plenty change for some stands and a nice cart.
That's quite a tricky situation David. I think most of us have experienced the 'error' of 'Trial and Error'! If you knew you could get it right you could splash out now rather than (a) wait and (b) lose a bit on resale. For what it is worth that is the way I would go - live dangerously!
IMHO speakers cannot be considered in isolation from the amp, with a partial exception that you can get 'all rounders', Triangle for example will work with just about any amp. I have heard the CM8s and they were excellent but they were driven by a Devialet so that was a big part of the equation. There have been quite a few speaker shootouts in Hi-Fi Choice and Hi-Fi News too I think. I would try to find those and get a feel for what would work. I don't know about you but I find researching for a big spend (car, hi-fi, holiday) to be a lot of fun.
(I'm afraid I know as much about cartridges as you know about 15th century Indian Rope Dancing). Good Luck!
I don't know, but isn't putting a linear tracking arm on a Rock a bit pointless? Surely the whole USP of the Rock is it's arm damping...
Andrew/Grant,
Yes, I think I will have to resign myself to a little speculation in my purchases. So long as I buy kit with a little reputation I am sure it will resell if I don't particularly favour it myself. Thanks for your reply!
Jason,
Not sure about pointless, rather taking advantage of opportunity. In the the same vein as my original post, I have neither the opportunity nor funds to experiment with a wide variety of arms, so when an opportunity has presented itself I have taken it. I would certainly like to explore the Rock's damping features in the future - but but that involves buying another arm. :)
David
As far as speakers are concerned, I'd search the net for any discussion of what works well with your amp. That is, by far, the most critical match in a system IME. As far as I know, NEAT are a known super-match with Naim ... they use Naim amps to design and develop their speakers. I'd look for a pair of used NEAT Petites, or the newer Motives, maybe. Other stand-mount options would be Proac, or maybe PMC. Both better than B&W IME.
Cartridge is less critical, as most budget ones are now very acceptable. Something like an Ortofon 2M Blue would be a good choice if you can stretch that far.
As far as speakers are concerned, I'd search the net for any discussion of what works well with your amp. That is, by far, the most critical match in a system IME. As far as I know, NEAT are a known super-match with Naim ... they use Naim amps to design and develop their speakers. I'd look for a pair of used NEAT Petites, or the newer Motives, maybe. Other stand-mount options would be Proac, or maybe PMC. Both better than B&W IME.
As it happens I have heard this exact combination: Naim Amp and Neat speakers, (Rega RP3 TT, Lyre Delos Cartridge, Whest phono). The sound was clear and accurate, Neat even :)
@David: let us know how you get on - maybe a few pics when you're done.
walpurgis
16-11-2014, 11:01
A decent Shure M75ED and a pair of Mission 780SE speakers would tide you over, sound very reasonable and be handy as back-up.
Not sure about pointless, rather taking advantage of opportunity. In the the same vein as my original post, I have neither the opportunity nor funds to experiment with a wide variety of arms, so when an opportunity has presented itself I have taken it. I would certainly like to explore the Rock's damping features in the future - but but that involves buying another arm. :)
David
Ahh OK I see. The Rock is a great platform and the arm damping on the trough really makes it shine, albeit at the expense of some useability. The Terminator may well work fine on it though... It definitely needs to be tried ! I'd look for a decent cheap mm - maybe an Ortofon or Nagaoka - and take it from there.
As to the others - well, buying secondhand has it's risk but can, in some ways, be a better bet - you can try things and if you buy wisely (trusted sellers, good condition, not so obscure as to be unsellable) if you don't like you can sell on again an far less loss than on something new. It can be fun too. I've not gone far wrong when choosing kit by reading reviews and forum opinions - you get a good idea of how kit performs and a sense of how they might go together.
Depending on arm effective-mass, the Rock/Terminator will do justice to any decent cartridge out there. First thoughts were for a Denon DL110 or one of the cheaper low output Ortofons, which have a very long pedigree and known good value performance (I wonder how different inside the new ones are to an MC10 Super or MC20 Super?). Obviously, the 2M fixed coil Ortofons are good too and deservedly popular, despite the prices asked.
As for speakers, I personally dislike the B&W CM models, despite their endearingly trendy looks. The current KEF models are recommended to me as really good all-rounders now and of you ever see any, the now vintage Spendor S and Se series (6's and 8's) work well with Naim without the tinny 'HiFi' shrillness of Neats or Kudos speakers I've heard. These Spendors MUST be used with Chord Odyssey (safe with Naim) and Naim's own stupidly priced A5 cable, the OTT treble performance of the cables working well with these speakers.
Rather rare, but I was always very fond of some of the Sonus Faber stand-mounts, the Concerto in both versions being a favourite as long as they were set high on their optional adjustable-height stands (ear on listening axis with the bass unit, NOT the tweeter). B&W 805's were good too if used the same way, as were the flashier looking Jamo Concert 8's which were popular at one time. All of these should be well under a grand and won't sound too lean in the bass - the Naim will punch out the bass it can reproduce anyway.
Hope this helps a bit...
If you want value for money,and can use a bottle of wood glue,you won't go far wrong with some IPL Acoustic speakers.I was using a Naim amp when i made mine and they made it sing.Eight years later they still sound good,and i have no plans to ever change them.Cheers.
Thanks for the further advice, folks. I am not sure about building my own speakers, but I reckon I will keep just looking around for potential upgrades I go. I guess it's part of the fun. :)
As it happens I have heard this exact combination: Naim Amp and Neat speakers, (Rega RP3 TT, Lyre Delos Cartridge, Whest phono). The sound was clear and accurate, Neat even :)
@David: let us know how you get on - maybe a few pics when you're done.
Southall-1998 has got a pair of Neat Petite's for sale for £200 which is a steal, I've been itching to buy them for ages but just don't need them !! At that price they're definitely worth a punt especially after the previous comments on this thread. Here's the link
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?34868-FS-Neat-Petite-MK1
High end speakers at a budget price...... can't go wrong !!
Steve
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?34868-FS-Neat-Petite-MK1
High end speakers at a budget price...... can't go wrong !!
Steve
Yes ... perfect ... problem solved!
By way of a small update, half of my conundrum has been sorted for the time being. Got a tidy pair of Ruarks. After a couple of hours of play, and fiddling with positioning, I am reasonably happy with them. Once I get the cart sorted I will consider what is first to be addressed. Thanks again for your comments/suggestions.
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