View Full Version : Which vintage Sony Turntable and Speakers ?
Idlewithnodrive
05-11-2014, 20:39
I'm very happy with my new Sony TA-5650 Amp and now quite fancy building a vintage Sony system around it.
My question to you learned folk is which Sony decks and speakers are worth considering at about £200 - £250 per item ?
What have you owned and rated ?
Are there any sleepers that I should consider ?
All help and advice appreciated.
The Barbarian
05-11-2014, 20:46
Sony 'PS3000' TT not for £2-250 tho LOL
Sony 'TC765' R+R matches your amp
You might get near a PS-6750 for that money if your not expecting perfect condition.
Idlewithnodrive
05-11-2014, 20:59
Yea, I've seen PS-6750's go for there and thereabouts and some of the Biotracer decks too, though I don't know much at all about those.
Bio's are good, but the arm is nigh on impossible to do any work on if it goes wrong.(or so I'm told,thus I have stayed clear). There is a 6750 0n the bay at moment but has a broken lid etc, and dont know what the reserve is (probably too high)
Beobloke
06-11-2014, 13:01
Bio's are good, but the arm is nigh on impossible to do any work on if it goes wrong.(or so I'm told,thus I have stayed clear).
Another internet myth I'm afraid. I think people are just too scared of the complexity of them to even attempt repair! They're generally pretty reliable, in my experience.
May I have first dibs on the Dual 1019 if it ever comes up please?
As for speakers, B&W made a couple of models for UK Sony's but I'm darned if I can remember the model numbers. One was a B&W DM1 clone and surviving ones have a brightly lit but incredibly clear sound, but zero deep bass (which may be a tightened up old drive unit). There was also a mid 70's one which sounded so much better than the others Sony sold. I think this latter one went with the HMP70 and HMK 70 centres, both featuring a rather nicely done turntable...
The Barbarian
06-11-2014, 17:00
Sony 'SS7000' .. 'SS1005'
I have a PS-X70, and can highly recommend! Check out the Vintage Knob summary. I have to say I am a convert to Direct Drive.
Idlewithnodrive
06-11-2014, 19:51
May I have first dibs on the Dual 1019 if it ever comes up please?
Certainly if you're interested David but it could be a LOT quicker than you think ;)
Idlewithnodrive
06-11-2014, 20:08
Bio's are good, but the arm is nigh on impossible to do any work on if it goes wrong.(or so I'm told,thus I have stayed clear). There is a 6750 0n the bay at moment but has a broken lid etc, and dont know what the reserve is (probably too high)
:)
So it was you!!:steam:
:eek: Decent buy Mike if it was.
Idlewithnodrive
06-11-2014, 20:40
Guilty as charged.
Sorry :peace:
LOL, More than welcome mate....hope its a good 'un......looked nice apart from the lid. Nice colour too.
Martyn Miles
06-11-2014, 21:04
May I have first dibs on the Dual 1019 if it ever comes up please?
As for speakers, B&W made a couple of models for UK Sony's but I'm darned if I can remember the model numbers. One was a B&W DM1 clone and surviving ones have a brightly lit but incredibly clear sound, but zero deep bass (which may be a tightened up old drive unit). There was also a mid 70's one which sounded so much better than the others Sony sold. I think this latter one went with the HMP70 and HMK 70 centres, both featuring a rather nicely done turntable...
The B & W speakers made for Sony were the SS-1000 ( DM 1 ) and SS3000 ( DM 3 ) I wouldn't say the SS-1000/DM 1 has zero bass. I owned a pair and although the bass wasn't prominent, is was certainly there. Judicious use of the bass tilt control on my Quad 34 certainly helped.
The Barbarian
06-11-2014, 22:30
^ Another one that don't read before posting..:doh:
Guilty as charged.
Sorry :peace:
Nice. I expect you'll be pleased. What cartridge are you going for? This Sony MC is getting a lot of interest:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-XL55-MOVING-COIL-STEREO-CARTRIDGE-RARE-VINTAGE-STYLUS-FOR-SME-RETRO-HI-FI-/390962616348?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item5b0730181c
Had PS-X75 for a while and that was a really nice deck. Used that with modified DL-103 cart and it was really good match. The biotracer-arm also did have some issues when used fully automatic at the time when bought it but got it cheap and luckily preferred the manual use anyway. Did not try to fix it or even google what cold be the issue as my friend (Sony fan) offered to buy this deck from me as he was really impressed of that.. :)
Martyn Miles
07-11-2014, 06:41
^ Another one that don't read before posting..:doh:
Often I flip through some postings, as people on this Forum are predictable. I always read DJSR's postings as he writes sensible and thoughtful things.
Back to the subject, I understand B & W only made those two models for Sony but perhaps other British manufacturers were involved, too.
M Miles.
Idlewithnodrive
07-11-2014, 09:07
Nice. I expect you'll be pleased. What cartridge are you going for? This Sony MC is getting a lot of interest:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-XL55-MOVING-COIL-STEREO-CARTRIDGE-RARE-VINTAGE-STYLUS-FOR-SME-RETRO-HI-FI-/390962616348?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item5b0730181c
Looks interesting Paul but I'll probably stick with the AN IQ2 as the MM stage in the 5650 is actually pretty good.
I'm surprised no-one's mentioned an obvious companion for this system:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sony-EL-7-ELCASET-/130582615884
Bit pricey tho........
Beobloke
07-11-2014, 13:09
Apologies for the Off-Topic, but Shane - clear yer inbox!
Here's a wee speaker suggestion for you: Sony SS-7600
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-SS-7600.html
I've never seen a pair come up on ebay but there have been a few pairs of the smaller SS-7200:
http://www.audioscope.net/images/sony_ss_7200-1.jpg
A pair of these came up in Edinburgh a year or so ago for £150ish but I passed due to having 3 pairs of surplus speakers at the time. Wish I hadn't :(
You should’ve snapped those up, Paul. I reckon they’d be pretty stunning!
Marco.
You're not wrong Marco. Unfortunately, they came up before I moved over to vintage gear. Life, including hi-fi, is often about good timing and I've had my fair share of being in the right place at the right time, so I've no complaints about these speakers. Still a shame though as they do look tasty.
Very nice pair of Sony SS-G4s on the bay just now:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-G4-CARBON-COCOON-FLOOR-STANDING-LOUDSPEAKERS-/291269470810?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item43d1036a5a
Idlewithnodrive
10-11-2014, 08:23
Here's a wee speaker suggestion for you: Sony SS-7600
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-SS-7600.html
I've never seen a pair come up on ebay but there have been a few pairs of the smaller SS-7200:
http://www.audioscope.net/images/sony_ss_7200-1.jpg
A pair of these came up in Edinburgh a year or so ago for £150ish but I passed due to having 3 pairs of surplus speakers at the time. Wish I hadn't :(
They look amazing Paul. I wasn't even aware of those !
Idlewithnodrive
10-11-2014, 08:24
Very nice pair of Sony SS-G4s on the bay just now:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-G4-CARBON-COCOON-FLOOR-STANDING-LOUDSPEAKERS-/291269470810?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item43d1036a5a
Not a bad shout either :)
Martyn Miles
10-11-2014, 09:01
They look amazing Paul. I wasn't even aware of those !
I have never rated Japanese speakers, excepting the Yamaha NS1000.
Mind you, I quickly chose Spendor BC1s over them...
jandl100
10-11-2014, 09:18
I'm pretty sure - it would be about 45 years ago now! - that my 1st ever hifi speakers were Sony SS7200.
These do look like I remember them ...
http://www.audioidiots.com/Sony/catalogi/1972-1973/middel/p030i2.jpg
Tbh, they weren't very good - bland, thin-sounding and quite a bit grainy iirc, and a change to Technics SB301 was a major improvement.
Idlewithnodrive
10-11-2014, 09:34
Yes, Sony speakers really do seem to generate Marmite opinions.
I might have to re-think the ALL Sony Vintage Japanese system idea, although the amp and TT are both very good, so might be worth doing some extra research on the speaks.
hi,they had good floor standers in mid 90,s,they also done a special set of them,im sure they were called brooklands,apm range from 80,s yours charlie
I'm pretty sure - it would be about 45 years ago now! - that my 1st ever hifi speakers were Sony SS7200.
These do look like I remember them ...
http://www.audioidiots.com/Sony/catalogi/1972-1973/middel/p030i2.jpg
Tbh, they weren't very good - bland, thin-sounding and quite a bit grainy iirc, and a change to Technics SB301 was a major improvement.
Most of that was probably the partnering equipment in those days and how they’d have been set up. For example, did you use proper stands and decent speaker cable in 1973? ;) You’d probably be shocked at how good they’d sound now on the end of your system, sans bell-wire, on decent stands!
Sony, at the top of their game, made some remarkably good speakers, some of which were way ahead of their time.
Marco.
I had a pair of SS3300s. Big suckers, bigger than my Ardens at the time. Cabinets were 1" thick and well braced. Conventional 3-way layout (bass, mid tweeter in-line top to bottom) with tri-amp allowance on the crossover - but not passive tri-amp, active only - the switch takes the passive components completely out of the equation. The crossovers were massive, covering a sizable bit of real-estate on the rear panel, but running them tri-amped is something else. I only got rid of them as my available space took a major hit. I never really had a chance to get them properly tuned up and singing, but they showed a lot of promise. They are 1968 vintage.
Some sample pics on this expired Canuck Audio Mart ad (not mine):
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/648960981-sony_ss3300/
RobbieGong
18-12-2014, 21:25
Most of that was probably the partnering equipment in those days and how they’d have been set up. For example, did you use proper stands and decent speaker cable in 1973? ;) You’d probably be shocked at how good they’d sound now on the end of your system, sans bell-wire, on decent stands!
Sony, at the top of their game, made some remarkably good speakers, some of which were way ahead of their time.
Marco.
I'd tend to agree. Most people now know that Sony made some seriously good and proper kit that people are to this day still chasing, including more than enough top turntables and great high end ES amps. I somehow doubt that at the same time they couldnt be asked with giving the speakers the same 'audiophile - hifi' attention to detail they did with plenty of the fore-mentioned kit.
The B & W speakers made for Sony were the SS-1000 ( DM 1 ) and SS3000 ( DM 3 ) I wouldn't say the SS-1000/DM 1 has zero bass. I owned a pair and although the bass wasn't prominent, is was certainly there. Judicious use of the bass tilt control on my Quad 34 certainly helped.
Martyn, you forget sir that I have heard the pair you had a few times now :) I suspect age may have stiffened the suspension a bit, although the original review showed the bass flat to 100Hz with a fairly steep plummet below this. Midrange and treble was amazingly good I thought and if Alex is ever available for a cuppa, I'll ask him to get them out again.
I somehow doubt that at the same time they couldnt be asked with giving the speakers the same 'audiophile - hifi' attention to detail they did with plenty of the fore-mentioned kit.
Presactly!
But remember we had the ‘anti-Jap brainwash’ thing going on in the UK hi-fi scene at that time, where if it wasn’t British, it was automatically shite! :rolleyes:
Marco.
I had a Sony set of speakers, that used to be used for jukeboxes. Sony made them at a price cab wise but the drivers were decent and sounded very good indeedy
There's a pair of Sony SS-1000 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-SS1000-B-W-DM1-domestic-semi-professional-monitor-loudspeakers-/251757032620?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item3a9de374ac) on ebay just now.
There's a pair of Sony SS-1000 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-SS1000-B-W-DM1-domestic-semi-professional-monitor-loudspeakers-/251757032620?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item3a9de374ac) on ebay just now.
99p and less than 3 day to go....someone down London way will score methinks.
Sony APM22ES. The West German made ones only though. I had a pair of these and sold them when I moved oop north some years back. I've missed them ever since.
Usually not over priced which may be due to the odd appearance.
Yep, got one of these and are splendid! I have the Mk1 though, therefore the usual search for a new tweeter is on! :lol: They are really fragile, the crossover for them is way too low and also their rated power is only 10w!
istari_knight
28-12-2014, 04:37
As we are on the APM subject, I've had a few of them...
APM12ES/APM20ES are cheap tat with pressed steel baskets on the bass drivers with screw on trims that hide the fact. APM22ES MK.I were surprisingly good sounding, balanced to suit European ears I suspect but it does no harm with electronica/pop etc... As Felipe rightly points out the tweeters are extremely delicate, due to the nature of the APM bass driver it has little usable output above 2KHz therefore Sony employed an extremely steep crossover @ 1.3KHz (!) which is a big ask for a little tweeter especially at medium to high power levels causing them to die :(
Sony rectified this two years later with the APM22ES MK.II where they replaced the wonderful flat honeycombe diaphragm "APM" tweeter with a large "silk dome" capable of handling the low crossover frequency... Unfortunately in doing so they also completely destroyed the magic IMO. Something else to bear in mind, both models use Tesla branded electrolytic capacitors in the crossovers which are not only inferior quality IME, but also suffer from extreme drift... I've measured some 4.7uF Tesla's from the early to mid 90's which read closer to 20uF.
All in all the Mk.I are an interesting if fragile speaker that will almost certainly need attention of some sort by now, the MK.II I would advise avoiding unless very cheap... I gave my MK.II's to my brother & they sound good enough playing his dubstep nonsense but they didn't cut the mustard for me.
tubehunter
28-12-2014, 08:50
Hi
I had a pair of these awhile ago, after recapping and bypassing the pots they responded very well.
You have to get them off the floor on to stands and use a powerful amplifier as they seem to soak up watts.
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/IMG_4359_zps05d67284.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/halx00/media/IMG_4359_zps05d67284.jpg.html)
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t350/halx00/IMG_4360_zps9b23ffb1.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/halx00/media/IMG_4360_zps9b23ffb1.jpg.html)
istari_knight
28-12-2014, 12:57
Always wanted to try a pair of those Duncan, not got 'round to it yet ! Other Sony speakers of note I've owned at one point or another are:
SS-G1 - Good, use Seas drivers in a decent size cabinet. http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-SS-G1.html
SS-G3 - Very poor, Look the part but they're all midrange with crippled frequency extremes... Unfortunately just sound like stereotypical cheap Japanese speakers. http://audio-heritage.jp/SONY-ESPRIT/speaker/ss-g3.html
SS-G5 - The pair I used had a dodgy tweeter but while it worked they were jolly good [In a punchy JBL warts & all fashion]. http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-SS-G5a.html
SS-A1L - Sony's take on the LS3/5A [with identical construction]. They use relatively cheap Sony manufactured mid bass drivers also used in the SS-86E paired with a "bio-cellulose" tweeter which is the star of the package... Without a doubt the greatest dome tweeter I've heard to date, the SS-A1L are neutral to a fault & yet unlike the LS3/5A manages to produce substantial amounts of bass. http://www.hifidatabase.com/Detailed/Sony_SS-A1L_2685.php
Still on the "to own" list are some 70's carbocon's like those in the previous post & some APM-66ES... Someday :)
tubehunter
28-12-2014, 14:25
these look like they maybe interesting, but a bit pricey
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-Carbocon-SS-5050-Speakers-/221642993849?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item339af3b0b9
istari_knight
28-12-2014, 14:35
these look like they maybe interesting, but a bit pricey
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-Carbocon-SS-5050-Speakers-/221642993849?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item339af3b0b9
Yeah I saw those, a bit pricey as you say... Dome midrange is usually an indicator of quality in speakers that age.
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