View Full Version : Caiman MKII - check if you hear the noise please
Hello,
I am owner of CMII for some time, but trying to get confirmation if my unit is faulty and something is going on with the implementation of the circuity around the input switching and/or microcontroller responsible for changing the DAC function probably or again, it's on my side. To already answer your quesitons - YES, I've contacted support directly, but so far without any clue of course, rather getting responses like send it back or "Maybe this DAC is far too advanced for you to understand. So as I said send it back and get something far simpler that you can play with". Because of that I would like to ask you guys who also purchased CMII to check the following please:
1. Connect the DAC over the optical or USB - doesn't matter I think.
2. I am using Macbook with A+/Decibel software and CMII is set up as fixed RCA on the front, right hand switch.
3. Play the music for instance silence generated in Audacity in 24/96 - link here (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/616481/DAC%20noise/silence_24bit.flac) if you wish.
4. When it's playing try to set up the volume control on you amplifier or even using the DACs headphone pretty high (be careful not to destroy your speakers if some spikes happen - check if you hear any strange noise going out of RCA or headphone out from CMII.
5. If not, try to hit/press for a while the function button to switch between different CMII modes - check if anything changed regarding the noise. In my case the noise is clearly audible, but if I change the mode to the state when both status LED and input LED are lit on, the noise pretty disappears. On any other position it generates below noise - recorded on my iPhone close to the speakers:
Without playing actually music, just connected to my Macbook, opened A+ and LED on the input dimmed off:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/616481/DAC%20noise/noise%20without%20playing%20music.m4a
And with music played and paused in A+ (volume pretty high on my amp) and the same CMII mode with LEDs dimmed off:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/616481/DAC%20noise/noise%20with%20music%20played%20and%20paused.m4a
DAC alone seems to be silent if disconnected from the computer and getting nothing for the inputs. The same is my Marantz amp, just to check if on high volumes it generates any noise when the volume is at max - nothing from my amp itself. I haven't notice it at the beginning because didn't have too much time to diligently listen to it and to get some late nite silence to be able to hear it.
I have tried both inputs optical and USB where the latter one is even worst! It never happened on 7520SEG which I used to own. This is question to all the Beresford users on the forum and nothing personal to the formal designers of this DACs. Maybe ONLY my unit is faulty somehow, maybe not or maybe it's something on my side. The same I've suggested to Stan to check on his side and if not audible than to exchange the units - without the success so far :( I don't want to send the unit back with hurry, because I really like its sound, but also would like to figure out what is going on and why it ruined my experience. If everything fail, than I will send it back, but this is at the end, because I will be without possibility to enjoy the music anymore.
Nothing else I can do and do not have time for clueless discussions trying to get my things done as well, working hard as it was pointed out on other thread.
Thank you very much for Your cooperation and Your kind help,
Krzysztof
If you take the analogue o/p of the MAC to your amp does it still make the same noise?
If you take the analogue o/p of the MAC to your amp does it still make the same noise?
I will check it, but this does not explain, why on certain DAC "modes" is more or less or almost none, doesn't it?
BTW, if I cannot hear anything like this over headphones connected to my Macbook, this pretty explain IMHO that Macbook is not a problem here I think.
I have a Caiman MKII in my bedroom setup, and in short no unwanted noise at all :)
SB3 classic (with SBooster), Belkin Optical, Caiman MKII (maplins linear PSU/SBooster), MUSE M21 EX2/MUSE linear PSU, Mission 780SEs
I have a Caiman MKII in my bedroom setup, and in short no unwanted noise at all :)
SB3 classic (with SBooster), Belkin Optical, Caiman MKII (maplins linear PSU/SBooster), MUSE M21 EX2/MUSE linear PSU, Mission 780SEs
Thank you, did you try to check what I described? I don't have any LPSU, but could be also something related to it, any possibility to connect the stock PSU on your side?
Thank you, did you try to check what I described? I don't have any LPSU, but could be also something related to it, any possibility to connect the stock PSU on your side?
I'll see if I can find it, but it could have gone the way of all wallwarts...one further thing I forgot to note is that all of the components are plugged into a Tacima mains conditioner...
I'm also using the fixed level output, I'll try the headphone test as I've not used that yet, it may be a pre/hp-amp thing...
I'll see if I can find it, but it could have gone the way of all wallwarts...one further thing I forgot to note is that all of the components are plugged into a Tacima mains conditioner...
I'm also using the fixed level output, I'll try the headphone test as I've not used that yet, it may be a pre-amp thing...
Thanks a lot, please let me know. I have CMII connected to the filtering power strip as all my audio gear and CMII is using the stock switched PSU. Before that, when I have 7520SEG nothing like this happened and all my gear - Marantz PM6004/CD5004 are dead quite itself. @NRG suggested that I may try to check analogue out from my Macbook, but when I connect my cans to it - nothing audible - dead silent when playing music or pausing.
BTW, that noise in not only over the h/p out, also over RCA - CMII set up to fixed outs.
One additional founding. The clicks together with the background noise are mostly audible on 24/96 files, redbook seems to be fine. There is small floor noise audible, but at max volumes it's almost to forget. For 24/96, besides this audible noise floor, clicks are also very audible on my side, as you can hear from files I posted here in the thread. Those clicks are present before the music starts playing and when it's paused. Mostly they stopped when the music actually is going on - I tried to catch them during the low classical passages etc.
Another similar description is here on Raspberry Pi MCU Forum with sound popping here http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=8783&start=25 and here: http://forum.osmc.tv/showthread.php?tid=4573. It was resolved by firmware update and confirmed by the developers. Not know if it's related to my issue, but looks similar.
If you look at the waveform of the noise when music is paused it shows quite recurring pattern and closed up view looks like dropout with pulse response characteristic.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/616481/DAC%20noise/waferom_paused.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/616481/DAC%20noise/closeup_paused.png
One additional founding. The clicks together with the background noise are mostly audible on 24/96 files, redbook seems to be fine. There is small floor noise audible, but at max volumes it's almost to forget. For 24/96, besides this audible noise floor, clicks are also very audible on my side, as you can hear from files I posted here in the thread. Those clicks are present before the music starts playing and when it's paused. Mostly they stopped when the music actually is going on - I tried to catch them during the low classical passages etc.
No noise at my end, but I only use red book FLAC...good luck :)
No noise at my end, but I only use red book FLAC...good luck :)
Thanks, but redbook may be irrelevant in this case, as said those seem to work fine. Any chance to check with some free sample 24/96 file?
Thanks, but redbook may be irrelevant in this case, as said those seem to work fine. Any chance to check with some free sample 24/96 file?
Sorry mate, it would be a big hassle, as the SB3 does not support 24/96, and LMS would downsample that before sending it, without implementing SoX processing at the server side, hence I stick to red book CDs...as I said good luck :)
Sorry mate, it would be a big hassle, as the SB3 does not support 24/96, and LMS would downsample that before sending it, without implementing SoX processing at the server side, hence I stick to red book CDs...as I said good luck :)
OK, thank you.
The problem on my side still persist. I've ordered 12V stabilized LPSU to check if it's not related to the power supply.
naitphile
13-11-2014, 08:06
The problem on my side still persist. I've ordered 12V stabilized LPSU to check if it's not related to the power supply.
Hi this may or may not be helpful - I don't understand everything I deal with I just fiddle till it sounds good.
I have a Mac connected to caiman mkii ii by optical for when the family are using the internet and also to a usb converter connected to the caiman by co-ax the latter being for when I want to play 24/192 files which Mac optical doesn't support on my machine.
I had this setup with a BM2 there was hiss and hum at rest with the stock power I switched to another plug power supply - still there - switched to 12 volt battery and silence. Beresfords I understand draw very little power so this made sense to me and I didn't investigate further. Then I got the caiman which went straight on to 12v power no hiss or hum.
With the caiman I got Amarra symphony 3 and Dirac live initially I got pops and clicks via usb and it was guaranteed when changing bit rate. I have since learnt that a reboot of the usb converter at the beginning of a listening session and starting the software in a certain order eliminates this problem so in my non-technical mind I concluded this was about how things talk to each other not whether they are faulty.
Not sure that helps but hope it is pertinent to anyone setting up a similar system
Hi this may or may not be helpful - I don't understand everything I deal with I just fiddle till it sounds good.
I have a Mac connected to caiman mkii ii by optical for when the family are using the internet and also to a usb converter connected to the caiman by co-ax the latter being for when I want to play 24/192 files which Mac optical doesn't support on my machine.
I had this setup with a BM2 there was hiss and hum at rest with the stock power I switched to another plug power supply - still there - switched to 12 volt battery and silence. Beresfords I understand draw very little power so this made sense to me and I didn't investigate further. Then I got the caiman which went straight on to 12v power no hiss or hum.
With the caiman I got Amarra symphony 3 and Dirac live initially I got pops and clicks via usb and it was guaranteed when changing bit rate. I have since learnt that a reboot of the usb converter at the beginning of a listening session and starting the software in a certain order eliminates this problem so in my non-technical mind I concluded this was about how things talk to each other not whether they are faulty.
Not sure that helps but hope it is pertinent to anyone setting up a similar system
Thank you for your answer. The story with battery power is quite understandable, that's why I push the trigger and ordered another PSU, 12V linear one to see if change anything. Pops and clicks when changing the sample rate is quite normal, since CMII does not have mute function and probably needs around 0.5s to change it to another rate. Try to play 24/96 flac or other lossless 96kHz resolution file and hit pause on your player - than put headphones or volume control on your amp louder to see if you hear anything please. In my case is almost the same over optical and USB. I don't have coax.
BTW, I am not saying that CMII is faulty, but I have this problem and would like to understand where the issue is present. Stan said that he's not aware of any faulty firmware or something, so I hope this one is not the exception.
naitphile
13-11-2014, 08:40
Thank you for your answer. The story with battery power is quite understandable, that's why I push the trigger and ordered another PSU, 12V linear one to see if change anything. Pops and clicks when changing the sample rate is quite normal, since CMII does not have mute function and probably needs around 0.5s to change it to another rate. Try to play 24/96 flac or other lossless 96kHz resolution file and hit pause on your player - than put headphones or volume control on your amp louder to see if you hear anything please. In my case is almost the same over optical and USB. I don't have coax.
BTW, I am not saying that CMII is faulty, but I have this problem and would like to understand where the issue is present. Stan said that he's not aware of any faulty firmware or something, so I hope this one is not the exception.
Just to confirm pops and clicks don't have to be normal I have eliminated them now even on bit rate change.
I will try your test when I get home.
Also I didn't mention I have turned off software volume or used gain by pass and control volume by analogue as I understand electronic volume does something funky to bit rate.
Just to confirm pops and clicks don't have to be normal I have eliminated them now even on bit rate change.
I will try your test when I get home.
Also I didn't mention I have turned off software volume or used gain by pass and control volume by analogue as I understand electronic volume does something funky to bit rate.
I also disabled digital volume control. On Mac OSX when using optical is disabled by default, when using USB (at least in A+) the volume slider has to be kept at maximum to avoid any volume changes poorly implemented in USB receiver chipset. Otherwise you will loose some bit depth - around 1-bit with -3dB changes AFAIR.
Thanks a lot, let me know if you hear anything weird based on my description in the very first post here.
Just to confirm pops and clicks don't have to be normal I have eliminated them now even on bit rate change.
I will try your test when I get home.
Hello,
Have you had a chance to check it? Thanks a lot for information.
I have checked so far with the linear PSU and nothing changed. Still clicks when music paused or when the buffer of the software player is filling, but mostly for sampling rates above 24/44.1 and when both status and input LED are on, the noise does not exist. This is something that more and more pointing me to CMII problem or core audio problem. Next check with Windows 7 instead of MAC OSX.
walpurgis
18-11-2014, 18:52
David. Your post has been removed as the content was not appropriate.
Thank you for informing me.
However my points still stand. If he is having problems with it, he should send it back for a refund, shouldn't he ?
If you had problems with a product, right from the start, you'd return it wouldn't you ?
Or is it acceptable to constantly berate a specific brand ?
Thank you for informing me.
However my points still stand. If he is having problems with it, he should send it back for a refund, shouldn't he ?
If you had problems with a product, right from the start, you'd return it wouldn't you ?
Or is it acceptable to constantly berate a specific brand ?
Because I VERY like the sound of this DAC besides the fact that somewhere there is a problem and now I have only option for refund, not repair. If I do I will be without nothing.
That is why I am trying to pin point the problem and this is nothing, nothing totally with revers enegineering! Just as an engineer it is connected to understanding, feedback and prior to purchase enough knowlwdge to narrow down purchase decision.
I decised to buy Stan's DAC because I used to have modded 7520SEG CMI and I liked it as well.
Werner Berghofer
19-11-2014, 06:32
Krzysztof,
[…] I have only option for refund, not repair. If I do I will be without nothing.
there are other DACs available from other manufacturers too. I’m with David: if I had similar problems with a product I would return it instead of endlessly tweaking and tinkering around.
Krzysztof,
there are other DACs available from other manufacturers too.
Hello Werner,
Sure, I knew it before I bought this one, maybe next time I will consider them as well, if in affordable price range.
Because I VERY like the sound of this DAC besides the fact that somewhere there is a problem and now I have only option for refund, not repair. If I do I will be without nothing.
That is why I am trying to pin point the problem and this is nothing, nothing totally with revers enegineering! Just as an engineer it is connected to understanding, feedback and prior to purchase enough knowlwdge to narrow down purchase decision.
I decised to buy Stan's DAC because I used to have modded 7520SEG CMI and I liked it as well.
In my humble opinion, you have asked Stan to disclose the translation of the LED blinking sequences so that you can understand what you have done wrong and reverse your changes. This probably gives the entire map of the work that he has spent a lot of time figuring out, and you want him to hand it all over on a pretext ? Try doing that with one of the big players, see what their response is ?
Oh yes, return the product and we will refund you. Same as stan.
You complained that your headphone output doesn't sound 'right', but neglected to inform us about specified changes YOU REQUESTED to be made. Stan had to tell us that later in the thread. Why did it have to be in a thread, why didn't you take the problem back to the manufacturer and resolve it between you ?
You want enough knowledge to make an informed choice about which DAC you want to purchase ?
Please feel free to start a thread on here, showing scans or details of any information provided to you by ANY and ALL of the manufacturers that were on your shortlist. I INSIST.
My last post was deleted as it was deemed inappropriate. All I ask now is for you to quantify your statements with the evidence you have procured.
Just as an engineer it is connected to understanding, feedback and prior to purchase enough knowlwdge to narrow down purchase decision.
Which other companies have provided you with the in depth detail on feedback and knowledge such as the fault finding functions of their products ? And if you like the sound of standac but its broken, I suggest you take your refund, add a lot more to your money pot and go and choose another shortlisted DACs that doesn't have the same problems.
Or at least keep your meddling off the boards and deal directly with the manufacturer.
In my humble opinion, you have asked Stan to disclose the translation of the LED blinking sequences so that you can understand what you have done wrong and reverse your changes. This probably gives the entire map of the work that he has spent a lot of time figuring out, and you want him to hand it all over on a pretext ? Try doing that with one of the big players, see what their response is ?
Oh yes, return the product and we will refund you. Same as stan.
You complained that your headphone output doesn't sound 'right', but neglected to inform us about specified changes YOU REQUESTED to be made. Stan had to tell us that later in the thread. Why did it have to be in a thread, why didn't you take the problem back to the manufacturer and resolve it between you ?
You want enough knowledge to make an informed choice about which DAC you want to purchase ?
Please feel free to start a thread on here, showing scans or details of any information provided to you by ANY and ALL of the manufacturers that were on your shortlist. I INSIST.
My last post was deleted as it was deemed inappropriate. All I ask now is for you to quantify your statements with the evidence you have procured.
Just as an engineer it is connected to understanding, feedback and prior to purchase enough knowlwdge to narrow down purchase decision.
Which other companies have provided you with the in depth detail on feedback and knowledge such as the fault finding functions of their products ? And if you like the sound of standac but its broken, I suggest you take your refund, add a lot more to your money pot and go and choose another shortlisted DACs that doesn't have the same problems.
Or at least keep your meddling off the boards and deal directly with the manufacturer.
Again, long post, but mistaken time to time.
1. I have never requested to Stan to modify my headphone out - I have sent him only information what kind of headphone I have. Stan did not inform me if he is going to modify the headphone out.
2. Modification of the above was indeed done, but with bad and vice versa soldering of the resistors (meaning that values of the parts were not the same as should be - I got response AFTER that and that my DAC is not the stock one and that it was modified according the information I've provided. Stan provided me instruction how to re-do it and I've done it on my self after digging also in the technical details of opamp implementation.
That's all and quite change your perception of the situation I think.
Dave, I have no objection to you having your say but keep from being personal or your or anyone elses comments will be deleted.
like this
Or at least keep your meddling off the boards and deal directly with the manufacturer.
thank you.
Again, long post, but mistaken time to time.
1. I have never requested to Stan to modify my headphone out - I have sent him only information what kind of headphone I have. Stan did not inform me if he is going to modify the headphone out.
2. Modification of the above was indeed done, but with bad and vice versa soldering of the resistors (meaning that values of the parts were not the same as should be - I got response AFTER that and that my DAC is not the stock one and that it was modified according the information I've provided. Stan provided me instruction how to re-do it and I've done it on my self after digging also in the technical details of opamp implementation.
That's all and quite change your perception of the situation I think.
You say
1. I have never requested to Stan to modify my headphone out - I have sent him only information what kind of headphone I have. Stan did not inform me if he is going to modify the headphone out.
Stan says
I set the headphone output up on your specific order based on the headphone information that you provided. So your headphone output is not the stock output.
I ask
So you're telling us that modified your set for free ? yours and only yours ?
Are you going to provide the information that you have requested from the other manufacturers on your shortlist ? or is this a fable?
Are you going to return the defective unit and risk having your tinkering discovered ? or just whine on about another 'problem' you have discovered with the standac as you blindly blunder through the software?
Just about EVERYONE else that has purchased a standac is very impressed with it, those who have fiddled or modified theirs have liased, in private and in conjunction, with stan and have then come to conclusions WITHOUT STOMPING ALL OVER A WEBSITE.
Return yours and lets find out what you messed up
You say
1. I have never requested to Stan to modify my headphone out - I have sent him only information what kind of headphone I have. Stan did not inform me if he is going to modify the headphone out.
Stan says
I set the headphone output up on your specific order based on the headphone information that you provided. So your headphone output is not the stock output.
I ask
So you're telling us that modified your set for free ? yours and only yours ?
Are you going to provide the information that you have requested from the other manufacturers on your shortlist ? or is this a fable?
Are you going to return the defective unit and risk having your tinkering discovered ? or just whine on about another 'problem' you have discovered with the standac as you blindly blunder through the software?
Just about EVERYONE else that has purchased a standac is very impressed with it, those who have fiddled or modified theirs have liased, in private and in conjunction, with stan and have then come to conclusions WITHOUT STOMPING ALL OVER A WEBSITE.
Return yours and lets find out what you messed up
I don't have time to discussing it again - you believe or not believe, your choice. Sorry, for bothering you.
To the moderators.
I apologize for making waves, but surely rather than you allowing him to discretely throw mud at a single manufacturer, couldn't you have had a word with him, especially when the manufacturer wants to get his hands on the product so he can ascertain what the problem is ?
I don't have time to discussing it again - you believe or not believe, your choice. Sorry, for bothering you.
OK. The manufacturer wants you to send it back so he can 'fix' the problem. He has stated it publicly, and yet you continue to find more problems with it.
edited by struth.
OK. The manufacturer wants you to send it back so he can 'fix' the problem. He has stated it publicly, and yet you continue to find more problems with it.
Last time, suggest you to read diligently post #24. Thank you Dave.
Krzysztof. i have told you by pm before if you have a problem with stans equipment then pm him or email him. as dave says this is not the place for these discussions.
and David i am sure Stan can speak for himself.
Krzysztof. i have told you by pm before if you have a problem with stans equipment then pm him or email him. as dave says this is not the place for these discussions.
and David i am sure Stan can speak for himself.
Ditto.
walpurgis
19-11-2014, 15:35
To the moderators.
I apologize for making waves, but surely rather than you allowing him to discretely throw mud at a single manufacturer, couldn't you have had a word with him, especially when the manufacturer wants to get his hands on the product so he can ascertain what the problem is ?
David, Stan Beresford is very capable of stating his position should he feel the need. I'm sure he's aware of this thread.
(I've just noticed that Grant said much the same thing. I missed that and was not trying to drive a point home)
naitphile
19-11-2014, 18:18
As requested set my caiman mkii up and running - paused play and turned the AMP all the way up....
nothing, nada, not a sausage, silencio
As requested set my caiman mkii up and running - paused play and turned the AMP all the way up....
nothing, nada, not a sausage, silencio
Are you using Mac or PC? If mac what model? what player?
Werner Berghofer
19-11-2014, 18:49
Krzysztof,
Are you using Mac or PC? If mac what model? what player?
according to his profile page (http://theartofsound.net/forum/member.php?11022-naitphile) (click the “About Me” tab) Robert uses an iMac i7 and Amarra.
naitphile
19-11-2014, 21:32
Thanks Werner this is correct.
I have been communicating directly with Stan for years since the 7510; never had a problem with one of his DACs or him...in fact I have always been surprised at the level of advice he had provided given that he is trying to run a business...guess it is partly about how you approach people...
Thanks Werner this is correct.
I have been communicating directly with Stan for years since the 7510; never had a problem with one of his DACs or him...in fact I have always been surprised at the level of advice he had provided given that he is trying to run a business...guess it is partly about how you approach people...
Thank you so much guys for your effort!
As requested set my caiman mkii up and running - paused play and turned the AMP all the way up....
nothing, nada, not a sausage, silencio
One important thing. When you open MIDI app how Tenor 7022 is being reported, 2 in/2 out or just 2 out? It is just under left hand under devices on your system.
naitphile
21-11-2014, 00:23
One important thing. When you open MIDI app how Tenor 7022 is being reported, 2 in/2 out or just 2 out? It is just under left hand under devices on your system.
I am not using audio midi I believe the Dirac digital processor to which Amarra is pointed takes over control of hardware
I am not using audio midi I believe the Dirac digital processor to which Amarra is pointed takes over control of hardware
Hey, I am not sure it it does matter, so if bot problem for you to look into MIDI pref I will be appreciated. Thank you.
Werner Berghofer
21-11-2014, 06:28
Robert,
I am not using audio midi […]
no, but the Mac operating system does use it and reads the settings and parameters entered there.
naitphile
21-11-2014, 18:09
Hey, I am not sure it it does matter, so if bot problem for you to look into MIDI pref I will be appreciated. Thank you.
Will do when the Caiman mkii comes back....just sent it away for some mods....more on that later
Audio MID setup config controls all audio devices, input and output on a Mac.
Using a DAC, on digital output you should set 96Hz and 2channel 24 bit integer under "format" if you want to be able to listen to high rez audio.
Audio MID setup config controls all audio devices, input and output on a Mac.
Using a DAC, on digital output you should set 96Hz and 2channel 24 bit integer under "format" if you want to be able to listen to high rez audio.
Exactly, I made the similar mistake on windows previously thinking that my issue is only on Mac, but it is not. Win7 by default set the resolution to 24/48, when I changed it to 24/96 unfortunately the issue came back.
naitphile
23-11-2014, 00:29
Audio MID setup config controls all audio devices, input and output on a Mac.
Using a DAC, on digital output you should set 96Hz and 2channel 24 bit integer under "format" if you want to be able to listen to high rez audio.
You may be right but to be clear I am listening to 24/192 files to do this there is a 'do not follow audio midi' button in Amarra. Amarra points to Dirac processor and and dirac talks to my usb converter and Subsequently the DAC. I never look at Audio midi. Amarra confirms it has locked at 24/192 or whatever as it is autoswitching - something I don't believe iTunes and audio midi can do.
You may be right but to be clear I am listening to 24/192 files to do this there is a 'do not follow audio midi' button in Amarra. Amarra points to Dirac processor and and dirac talks to my usb converter and Subsequently the DAC. I never look at Audio midi. Amarra confirms it has locked at 24/192 or whatever as it is autoswitching - something I don't believe iTunes and audio midi can do.
You are correct. To play audio files higher than 24/96 you need external hardware like a USB converter. I'm not familiar with Amarra, btw. I play predominantly with Audirvana+ and Fidelia.
I've found this thread with similar issues, but without any clue at the end, maybe someone from that thread got finally to the solution? http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?5956-PC-Caiman-DAC-Clicking-noise-at-right-channel-output
Yes, his solution was to send the item back.
To the moderators, I'd like to have a word regarding this behaviour. Rather than taking his problem to the manufacturer, he is still continuing with behaviour that you yourselves have chided him for and yet he still persists, ignoring your authority.
Can we PM this ? or is it better to have it out in the open ?
Take it to PM please, David. The open forum is no place for disputes like this, where outside parties unaware of what’s going on, have no idea who is ‘right’ or ‘wrong'. Therefore, please take the matter to PM.
Cheers! :)
Marco.
Yes, his solution was to send the item back.
To the moderators, I'd like to have a word regarding this behaviour. Rather than taking his problem to the manufacturer, he is still continuing with behaviour that you yourselves have chided him for and yet he still persists, ignoring your authority.
Can we PM this ? or is it better to have it out in the open ?
Mkrzych. has just asked a question Dave. that is allowed. if he goes on to besmirch anyone you can be sure it will be dealt with. thank you
Hello,
I am owner of CMII for some time, but trying to get confirmation if my unit is faulty and something is going on with the implementation of the circuity around the input switching and/or microcontroller responsible for changing the DAC function probably or again, it's on my side. To already answer your quesitons - YES, I've contacted support directly, but so far without any clue of course, rather getting responses like send it back or "Maybe this DAC is far too advanced for you to understand. So as I said send it back and get something far simpler that you can play with". Because of that I would like to ask you guys who also purchased CMII to check the following please:
1. Connect the DAC over the optical or USB - doesn't matter I think.
2. I am using Macbook with A+/Decibel software and CMII is set up as fixed RCA on the front, right hand switch.
3. Play the music for instance silence generated in Audacity in 24/96 - link here (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/616481/DAC%20noise/silence_24bit.flac) if you wish.
4. When it's playing try to set up the volume control on you amplifier or even using the DACs headphone pretty high (be careful not to destroy your speakers if some spikes happen - check if you hear any strange noise going out of RCA or headphone out from CMII.
5. If not, try to hit/press for a while the function button to switch between different CMII modes - check if anything changed regarding the noise. In my case the noise is clearly audible, but if I change the mode to the state when both status LED and input LED are lit on, the noise pretty disappears. On any other position it generates below noise - recorded on my iPhone close to the speakers:
Without playing actually music, just connected to my Macbook, opened A+ and LED on the input dimmed off:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/616481/DAC%20noise/noise%20without%20playing%20music.m4a
And with music played and paused in A+ (volume pretty high on my amp) and the same CMII mode with LEDs dimmed off:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/616481/DAC%20noise/noise%20with%20music%20played%20and%20paused.m4a
DAC alone seems to be silent if disconnected from the computer and getting nothing for the inputs. The same is my Marantz amp, just to check if on high volumes it generates any noise when the volume is at max - nothing from my amp itself. I haven't notice it at the beginning because didn't have too much time to diligently listen to it and to get some late nite silence to be able to hear it.
I have tried both inputs optical and USB where the latter one is even worst! It never happened on 7520SEG which I used to own. This is question to all the Beresford users on the forum and nothing personal to the formal designers of this DACs. Maybe ONLY my unit is faulty somehow, maybe not or maybe it's something on my side. The same I've suggested to Stan to check on his side and if not audible than to exchange the units - without the success so far :( I don't want to send the unit back with hurry, because I really like its sound, but also would like to figure out what is going on and why it ruined my experience. If everything fail, than I will send it back, but this is at the end, because I will be without possibility to enjoy the music anymore.
Nothing else I can do and do not have time for clueless discussions trying to get my things done as well, working hard as it was pointed out on other thread.
Thank you very much for Your cooperation and Your kind help,
Krzysztof
Perhaps when you completed your modifications on the modifications, your soldering wasn't as good as you think it is and you have 'bridged' some circuitry, somewhere. Just a thought. After all, it's not your main hobby is it ?
Again, long post, but mistaken time to time.
1. I have never requested to Stan to modify my headphone out - I have sent him only information what kind of headphone I have. Stan did not inform me if he is going to modify the headphone out.
2. Modification of the above was indeed done, but with bad and vice versa soldering of the resistors (meaning that values of the parts were not the same as should be - I got response AFTER that and that my DAC is not the stock one and that it was modified according the information I've provided. Stan provided me instruction how to re-do it and I've done it on my self after digging also in the technical details of opamp implementation.
That's all and quite change your perception of the situation I think.
I have never requested to Stan to modify my headphone out - I have sent him only information what kind of headphone I have. Stan did not inform me if he is going to modify the headphone out.
So you are saying that stan went to the trouble of modifying your, and only your, DAC for free ?
Perhaps when you completed your modifications on the modifications, your soldering wasn't as good as you think it is and you have 'bridged' some circuitry, somewhere. Just a thought. After all, it's not your main hobby is it ?
Mine soldering was actually better to be honest.
I have never requested to Stan to modify my headphone out - I have sent him only information what kind of headphone I have. Stan did not inform me if he is going to modify the headphone out.
So you are saying that stan went to the trouble of modifying your, and only your, DAC for free ?
Yes,
walpurgis
26-11-2014, 21:50
Dave. Perhaps you could have a think about how your questions are coming across please. I'd say to anybody here on the forum, ask what you like, but try to avoid a challenging tone or anything that could be regarded as sarcasm. Thanks, Geoff.
Dave. Perhaps you could have a think about how your questions are coming across please. I'd say to anybody here on the forum, ask what you like, but try to avoid a challenging tone or anything that could be regarded as sarcasm. Thanks, Geoff.
Cheers Geoff,
Can I be ignorant, please ?
Just asking as mkrzych, in my humble opinion appears to be relentlessly ignoring stans requests to return the 'problematic' DAC to effect a repair or refund. Instead preferring to insinuate that the product is in some way deficient rather than allowing the manufacturer to analyse the unit.
May I also ask how much of my PM may I reproduce on this thread without being deemed beyond the rules ?
Many thanks for your patience.
walpurgis
27-11-2014, 00:16
Cheers Geoff,
Can I be ignorant, please ?
Just asking as mkrzych, in my humble opinion appears to be relentlessly ignoring stans requests to return the 'problematic' DAC to effect a repair or refund. Instead preferring to insinuate that the product is in some way deficient rather than allowing the manufacturer to analyse the unit.
May I also ask how much of my PM may I reproduce on this thread without being deemed beyond the rules ?
Many thanks for your patience.
I don't feel direct reproduction of PM content is acceptable in this case. Please précis your thoughts and post them as applicable, but I'm hoping this may be put in such a way as to avoid a confrontational or critical situation.
Mine soldering was actually better to be honest.
Well congratulations on your soldering skills.
But my point was that perhaps when you were working on the DAC, you may have inadvertantly disrupted, or broken, one of the semiconductors. Hence your continual issues with what you claim is a great sounding but faulty DAC. Your own words, not mine. (If you require it, I can provide you with the threads and post numbers)
You could always send it back to have your work cross checked just to be sure. I'm sure stan would delighted to help a customer with any problems he may have, regarding his products :)
Note to all.
I am in no way affiliated to, or a friend of, or a neighbour of, or in the same field as Stan beresford.
In fact, my line of work is so far apart from this field it could be remoter than a remote thing.
But I do work in inspection, in conjunction with big money clients and also Lloyds of London.
I do recognise when there is a legitimate concern and when a complaint is inconsequential.
I would ask, why would someone resurrect a 4 yr old thread, regarding an obsolete product, then try to infer a tenuous, at best, link with a product that the client refuses to have examined for defective behaviour ?
Not aggressive, just curious as to why the client refuses to have his issues resolved, unless it is for personal gain.
Now that, I have seen during contract negotiations or when a client doesn't want to pay for services so produces what's called a 'snagging' list that has so many irrelevant 'snags' that the contractors just walk away and leave the client not paying the bill
Now that, I see a lot of.
Not confrontational, just an observation than I can, in my opinion, see a definite link in this and other related, threads :eyebrows:
…and on that note, David, I insist that the thread returns to discussing issues solely related to hi-fi - and that includes input here from others.
Any further material posted, in that respect, considered as being ‘off topic’, will be deleted without further warning. We’ve had enough now of the ‘Dave and Mkrzych show’. Cheers!
Marco.
electroid
04-12-2014, 14:12
I think the issue is with the combination of Macbook Air / A+ / 24/96 output + Beresford DAC together.
I had the exact same problem (pops/clicks) with a BM MK2 that I sold on. Redbook like the OP has stated was not an issue.
It must be an issue in isolation with that mix of hardware/software.
It must be complex to cover all bases these days with the formats /hardware/ connection ports mix.
I think the issue is with the combination of Macbook Air / A+ / 24/96 output + Beresford DAC together.
I had the exact same problem (pops/clicks) with a BM MK2 that I sold on. Redbook like the OP has stated was not an issue.
It must be an issue in isolation with that mix of hardware/software.
It must be complex to cover all bases these days with the formats /hardware/ connection ports mix.
Unfortunately not, because I've checked also with different Mac and Win7 laptop - the same. Also it isn't related to USB because toslink behave the same.
Do not know about the BMIi design, but it might be related to the fact that MUTE function is not implemented and when static stream of 0's is being sent meaning no data DAC will generate the clicks or those are picked up from the digital power supply lanes. The latter I hope not. I don't know (yet)
why audible on 24/96 only. Also so far I wasn't able to hear it while music is actually playing - that may explain the MUTE subject.
Michaelz
04-12-2014, 15:49
I use Windows 7 with CII through USB. I use Foobar, VLC player, and some other players to play music file or play CDs (on the computer CDRom player) and never experienced any pops or ticks noise. It could be your computer set up (maybe how the computer feeds the data stream to the dac, or the dac is at fault. You already did a lot of study and test to no avail. I would stop beating myself and send the unit back for refund or a new one. Make sure someone test the new unit with USB input makes no moise as describe and your problem will be solved. The way it goes as this thread shows, the problem will never be solved.
I use Windows 7 with CII through USB. I use Foobar, VLC player, and some other players to play music file or play CDs (on the computer CDRom player) and never experienced any pops or ticks noise. It could be your computer set up (maybe how the computer feeds the data stream to the dac, or the dac is at fault. You already did a lot of study and test to no avail. I would stop beating myself and send the unit back for refund or a new one. Make sure someone test the new unit with USB input makes no moise as describe and your problem will be solved. The way it goes as this thread shows, the problem will never be solved.
Good to know. BTW:
1. Have you play 24/96 without any down/up-sampling? 24/44 or CD will be always fine.
2. Did you set up under Win7 preferences under advanced tab resolution of 24/96?
3. If so, try to play 24/96 flac and hit pause on foobar or better try silence file to play. Than crank up a bit volume to check.
Thanks a lot.
Michaelz
04-12-2014, 16:31
I think I did.
But to make sure, I will do that again to confirm.
electroid
05-12-2014, 03:20
Then just send it back for a replacement. If it is an across the board hardware/software issue, and others are not having the problem then it is a faulty unit.
Michaelz
05-12-2014, 14:12
Good to know. BTW:
1. Have you play 24/96 without any down/up-sampling? 24/44 or CD will be always fine.
2. Did you set up under Win7 preferences under advanced tab resolution of 24/96?
3. If so, try to play 24/96 flac and hit pause on foobar or better try silence file to play. Than crank up a bit volume to check.
Thanks a lot.
I did some test last night.
Did 1 and 2, and kind of 3. I noticed that when set the usb device at 24/96, AND set the headphone volume to maximum, some light clicking noise appear during pause and change of songs (some times this does not happen among certain songs, not sure why, maybe the change of song can happen very quickly between some songs than between some other songs?). When volume is set maximum in headphone, even when foobar2000 or any other player I used, is closed, I still hear the clicking noise. This happens with the CII usb and also with Gustard u10 usb interface.
I did not notice this before as I seldom use headphone and when I use headphone or play through loudspeakers I do not crank up the volume to maximum. As soon as I lower the volume a bit from maximum, the clicking noise stops in the headphone. I tried very hard to locate it but could not.
If you do not listen at maximum volume, then this becomes non issue.
Of course this test does not invalidate my advice above. If this imperfection nags you, just return dac. It is like in real life, nothing is perfect, just take advantage of it. I enjoy using the CII dac tremendously.
This is not like having some incurable desease in one's body, a situation where one has to dwell on it inspite of oneself.
I did some test last night.
Did 1 and 2, and kind of 3. I noticed that when set the usb device at 24/96, AND set the headphone volume to maximum, some light clicking noise appear during pause and change of songs (some times this does not happen among certain songs, not sure why, maybe the change of song can happen very quickly between some songs than between some other songs?). When volume is set maximum in headphone, even when foobar2000 or any other player I used, is closed, I still hear the clicking noise. This happens with the CII usb and also with Gustard u10 usb interface.
I did not notice this before as I seldom use headphone and when I use headphone or play through loudspeakers I do not crank up the volume to maximum. As soon as I lower the volume a bit from maximum, the clicking noise stops in the headphone. I tried very hard to locate it but could not.
If you do not listen at maximum volume, then this becomes non issue.
Of course this test does not invalidate my advice above. If this imperfection nags you, just return dac. It is like in real life, nothing is perfect, just take advantage of it. I enjoy using the CII dac tremendously.
This is not like having some incurable desease in one's body, a situation where one has to dwell on it inspite of oneself.
Thanks a lot! This confirms that my finding is valid and I am not alone. It nags me a bit since at the beginning most people said that I am talking nonsence. That is why I not returned the item also, because like you I like how it sounds!
Summarizing I think it would be nice to get some explanation from the desinger why we're hearing it and if it is normal it doesn't affect the overall sound at all.
I am able to hear it on higher volume leveles when listening over speakers, because you need to take into account also the environment noise and distance from the drivers. Over the headpnones it is much more audible even on the normal positions of the volume pot - probably depends on the cans sensitivity, type and noise around you. But it is there.
It nags me a bit since at the beginning most people said that I am talking nonsence.
Really ? That's your interpretation, is it ?
from your first post
4. When it's playing try to set up the volume control on you amplifier or even using the DACs headphone pretty high (be careful not to destroy your speakers if some spikes happen - check if you hear any strange noise going out of RCA or headphone out from CMII.
for most people 'pretty high' is around 1 or 2 oclock, NOT just under or at maximum level. Glad this whole complaining thread has been based on an engineer being deliberately vague about his testing parameters.
Don't you feel even slightly ashamed ?
from Michaelz
when I use headphone or play through loudspeakers I do not crank up the volume to maximum. As soon as I lower the volume a bit from maximum, the clicking noise stops in the headphone. I tried very hard to locate it but could not.
If you do not listen at maximum volume, then this becomes non issue.
If this imperfection nags you, just return dac. It is like in real life, nothing is perfect, just take advantage of it.
So now someone has replicated your problem by taking the DAC to its volume extremities ?
I suggest that either needing to use the maximum volume level to adequately hear your music means that
A) your hearing has degraded so much, that using a DAC is a moot point
B) you are using a domestic product for a commercial use IE using in a PA system to get better sound quality , rather than using decent mixer and speakers
C) you are just nitpicking over an extreme use percentile from a low cost unit rather than getting a DAC at a much higher price and specification that you are very reticent to pay for.
Like a good number of people on here are saying........ send it back and after examination, get a new one or get your money back and buy what you should have purchased the first time.
And please, if you can't live with the unit, stop complaining publicly about it on a forum. We both have no business talking about your extreme obsessions on here. Take it to Stan and fix it with him.
I was initially supportive of Krzyztof's plight as there is nowt more annoying than a niggly issue with an otherwise functional product. Having said that, this has now got a wee bit silly.
The Caiman II is essentially a budget DAC which has been cleverly designed to perform at a higher level than it has any right to for the price. To bring the product in at its RRP something had to give otherwise Stan would have had to sell it for a lot more. In light of this, to sleight the product to this extent seems to me to be a tad unfair. Maximum volume Krzyzstof? why? If the issue is only apparent at maximum levels then the solution is simple, don't listen at maximum levels. On the other hand, if you can't get over the issue then return the unit to Stan for a refund and purchase a DAC which performs to your liking. I'm not being judgemental my friend, just logical.
Thanks a lot! This confirms that my finding is valid and I am not alone. It nags me a bit since at the beginning most people said that I am talking nonsence. That is why I not returned the item also, because like you I like how it sounds!
Summarizing I think it would be nice to get some explanation from the desinger why we're hearing it and if it is normal it doesn't affect the overall sound at all.
I am able to hear it on higher volume leveles when listening over speakers, because you need to take into account also the environment noise and distance from the drivers. Over the headpnones it is much more audible even on the normal positions of the volume pot - probably depends on the cans sensitivity, type and noise around you. But it is there.
mkrzych, Yo have been told on several occasions to let this lie. If you are not happy with the product, send it back or contact Stan direct. This forum is not here as a vehicle for your complaints. Any more posts of the like by you or anyone else will be deleted.
Thanks gents. If you think that 60% of the volume pot where most of the time I listen on cans is the maximum that's ok.
walpurgis
06-12-2014, 09:45
Can all concerned please move on. Discuss the product by all means, but avoid the 'circular debate' that has been going on. All relevant ground has been covered enough. The thread may be closed without notice if it continues. Thanks.
Hello,
I did super firmware upgrade recently to version V6-100 and my complaints posted in this thread seems do be gone now. I'm using CMII with Anker 2nd Gen Astro Pro battery pack connected to my Mac with optical toslink back again and cannot hear that mentioned previously noise neither when high resolution music is paused nor just started feeding memory buffer in Audirvana 2.0 player. Even with volume pot set to maximum level without the signal over my headphones.
So far, so good, so big respect to Stan, because it seems that new firmware fix the issue on my side (hope it will persist forever now). Regarding the sound with new firmware - exceptional, especially taking into account the DAC price! Really worth to give it a try!
Michaelz
18-04-2015, 14:28
[QUOTE=mkrzych;637459]Hello,
SNIP...
So far, so good, so big respect to Stan, because it seems that new firmware fix the issue on my side (hope it will persist forever now). Regarding the sound with new firmware - exceptional, especially taking into account the DAC price! Really worth to give it a try![/QUOTE
Nice that you are happy and content:^)
I use Caiman II with Capella. With superfirmare, the sound ascended to a whole new level. Very organic sound. It makes music performance very real. It gives lot of pleasure in listening.
[QUOTE=mkrzych;637459]Hello,
SNIP...
So far, so good, so big respect to Stan, because it seems that new firmware fix the issue on my side (hope it will persist forever now). Regarding the sound with new firmware - exceptional, especially taking into account the DAC price! Really worth to give it a try![/QUOTE
Nice that you are happy and content:^)
I use Caiman II with Capella. With superfirmare, the sound ascended to a whole new level. Very organic sound. It makes music performance very real. It gives lot of pleasure in listening.
Capella is the other thing which I am considering, but so far, since I use rather easy to drive cans like Grado, I am not convinced if Capella bring anything better to CMII headphone out - maybe balance and other knobs to play with, but to the sound not sure.
SuperFirmware changed the volume pot behavior a bit, not so much crackling when changing the level and seems it fixed the issue with clicks when music was paused or player send the 0's stream toward the DAC. There are some thing like swish noise when start the song, but may be related to the buffer on my player or locking delay I imposed = 0.5s. Overall, very worthwhile upgrade!
StanleyB
19-04-2015, 09:26
[QUOTE=Michaelz;Capella is the other thing which I am considering, but so far, since I use rather easy to drive cans like Grado, I am not convinced if Capella bring anything better to CMII headphone out - maybe balance and other knobs to play with, but to the sound not sure.
It's this kind of talk and thinking that discourages designers like me to even bother to invest in new products ideas. Before you have even tried the Capella you are already condemning it for not being better than the CMII headphone out. How would you know that it isn't? Several people have already posted their views on the Capella that they bought. And not a single one of them has said that the Capella sounded the same as the CMII. But you ignore all those comments and substituted your own negative impression instead. Why?
[QUOTE=mkrzych;640809]
It's this kind of talk and thinking that discourages designers like me to even bother to invest in new products ideas. Before you have even tried the Capella you are already condemning it for not being better than the CMII headphone out. How would you know that it isn't? Several people have already posted their views on the Capella that they bought. And not a single one of them has said that the Capella sounded the same as the CMII. But you ignore all those comments and substituted your own negative impression instead. Why?
:doh: This is NOT negative impression, just saying that 32Ohm is rather easy to drive and "I" am not convinced yet if for that impedance Capella will bring the better sonics than CMII headphone out besides the more control from gain, balance etc. For other people it may vary, especially if they have higher impedance cans. That's just my assumption and I suppose I can say it here.
:doh: This is NOT negative impression, just saying that 32Ohm is rather easy to drive and "I" am not convinced yet if for that impedance Capella will bring the better sonics than CMII headphone out besides the more control from gain, balance etc. For other people it may vary, especially if they have higher impedance cans. That's just my assumption and I suppose I can say it here.
I have both the CMII and the capella ..the headphone output in the CMII is not the same as the capella... the capella is in a different league ....the built in preamp is excellent i use this in my main setup ..I have grado alessandro MS1..and philips fidelio x1....very easy is to drive..then LCD2 very hard to drive..The capella makes a difference on all three pairs...Hope that helps
jon
I have both the CMII and the capella ..the headphone output in the CMII is not the same as the capella... the capella is in a different league ....the built in preamp is excellent i use this in my main setup ..I have grado alessandro MS1..and philips fidelio x1....very easy is to drive..then LCD2 very hard to drive..The capella makes a difference on all three pairs...Hope that helps
jon
Thanks, I will think over it.
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