View Full Version : speaker problems and recommendations please
Hi all.
I've recently bought a pair of mordaunt short pageant 2 speakers,and thought they were a big improvement over my ditton 15xr's.
The trouble is I heard last week a loud pop through them and then they seemed to lack bass.I've just picked up anot her set and the bloody tweeters on both have just blown!
I know these speakers are old and don't fetch much but I like the sound so are they worth getting upgraded tweeters and recapping?
Maybe i should be thinking about buying something newer so what should I go for?
Cheers.
J.
Probably a good idea to find out what is making the tweeters blow before you do your money on any more.
What amp are you using?
Do you know when it is clipping?
At what level do you normally listen?
What were you playing when you heard the "loud pop"?
The first pair lacked bass using them on a sansui au-505 amp. The second pair blew the tweeters today whilst using a Sony 700es amp. Neither pair have been used with volume turned up loud.
What do you mean by clipping?
Was listening to kate bush
When an amplifier is pushed to create a signal with more power than its power supply can produce, it will amplify the signal only up to its maximum capacity, at which point the signal can be amplified no further. As the signal simply "cuts" or "clips" at the maximum capacity of the amplifier, the signal is said to be "clipping". The extra signal which is beyond the capability of the amplifier is simply cut off, resulting in a sine wave becoming a distorted square-wave-type waveform. - Quote from Wikipedia :)
You learn something new every day! ta
...and when that happens you can produce the equivalent of twice the max output of the amp because of the square wave and thus the coils overheat and pop go the tweeters.
I would have thought you would need to drive the 700es to earsplitting levels before it clipped as it has a very sturdy power supply, I'm not sure about the Sansui though as I am not familiar with it ;)
walpurgis
01-11-2014, 20:49
There is the popular view that clipping amps damage speakers, but I've not seen proof. Some suggest that it does not really happen. I've never damaged a speaker through clipping, although I have blown them with too much power.
The Pageant 2 can go decently loud as a rule, without problems. I wouldn't suggest alternative drive units, as the originals are very well matched sonically in the Pageant and anything else is not likely to integrate as well.
So perhaps it's just bad luck with old speakers then?
It is entirely possible Jamie.
walpurgis
01-11-2014, 20:55
So perhaps it's just bad luck with old speakers then?
Looks like it.
I wouldn't give up on the Pageants as they are good speakers and the drive units crop up on eBay quite often, so you should be able to get them sorted.
Cheers.well between the 2 pairs I've created 1 working pair lol!
Frankenstein lives you could say!
Maybe the "pop" was caused by a mordant short :D
Mordant (especially of humour) having or showing a sharp or critical quality; biting
Was listening to kate bush
There's your answer to why the tweeters blew. Suicide.
There's your answer to why the tweeters blew. Suicide.
:lol:
There is the popular view that clipping amps damage speakers, but I've not seen proof. Some suggest that it does not really happen. I've never damaged a speaker through clipping, although I have blown them with too much power.
The Pageant 2 can go decently loud as a rule, without problems. I wouldn't suggest alternative drive units, as the originals are very well matched sonically in the Pageant and anything else is not likely to integrate as well.
Geoff, clipping an amp will certainly take tweeters out and 70's domes weren't as capable as those made or even re-made today - in my time I've seen too many partied speakers (usually Missions it used to be) with melted crossovers too, as the cheap, low powered inductors heated up like electric fires. Too much again and the amp would fry its output stage.
Not sure Miss Bush is the problem here :eyebrows: but older speakers like this may well suffer. I can't remember if the Pageants had tweeter fuses on the back panel. I used to run them with mid turned up and treble turned down, which gave the best balance at the time. I can't remember what tweeter they used, but if you phone Falcon Acoustics or Wilmslow Audio, they may be able to help.
walpurgis
01-11-2014, 22:57
Geoff, clipping an amp will certainly take tweeters out and 70's domes weren't as capable as those made or even re-made today - in my time I've seen too many partied speakers (usually Missions it used to be) with melted crossovers too, as the cheap, low powered inductors heated up like electric fires. Too much again and the amp would fry its output stage.
Not sure Miss Bush is the problem here :eyebrows: but older speakers like this may well suffer. I can't remember if the Pageants had tweeter fuses on the back panel. I used to run them with mid turned up and treble turned down, which gave the best balance at the time. I can't remember what tweeter they used, but if you phone Falcon Acoustics or Wilmslow Audio, they may be able to help.
As I said earlier, that's a widely held view, but where's the proof? Saying that clipped signals contain DC does not prove the point. Is there research with a definitive result?
Neither Wilmslow or Falcon will have stocks of the DSB208 MS bass/mid unit or the Isophon KK7 tweeter, both of which have not been made for over 30 years. I don't think alternatives will be a good idea.
Not sure Miss Bush is the problem here :eyebrows: but older speakers like this may well suffer. I can't remember if the Pageants had tweeter fuses on the back panel. I used to run them with mid turned up and treble turned down, which gave the best balance at the time. I can't remember what tweeter they used, but if you phone Falcon Acoustics or Wilmslow Audio, they may be able to help.
oh you cant beat a bit of bush!
no fuses mate and ive tested the tweeters wired directly, no sound at all.
thanks for all your comments guys,im learning loads here. :)
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