Stylus on it's way out?

[twotone]

Hi guys, my current cart is a Reson Reca with unknown hours, I'm guessing maybe around the 600 hours mark,but in the past week I've noticed that on some records the sound is breaking up on certain tracks like the needle/stylus is dirty however on some records I know very well and which I know are definately clean and sound fine then those records sound okay.

I've no idea what inner groove distortion sounds like but the sound issuse happens at the start of an album or the second track or the last track so this issue is not confined to just one part of the record but can happen anywhere, for example I recieved a second edition copy of Joan Armatrading self title this morning (obviously second hand) and whilst the record looks absolutely mint I was experiencing this 'dirty needle' sound on the very first track now obviously that record could be ruined as I don't know it but it's a bit annoying now.

The only thing that's changed recently is my phono stage has been upgraded and re-installed back into the system and it is a very very revealing phono stage now, it's a Firebottle Plus valve stage with a MM/MC switch whereas previously it was the MK1 version of the amp and was only MM however it had resistors fitted into the inputs of the amp to lower the capacitance load to suit the Reson but those have been removed with the upgrade. I have contacted Alan for advice regarding the sound issue but I don't really think the problem is the amp, I think the amp is now showing up some of my records as being a bit poor in sound quality terms.

I'm currently playing Bil Evans Trio Waltz for Debby (re-issue) and it sounds superb with no issues whatsoever in fact jazz records have no problems re this sound issue just some records like the one above althoug I played Solid Air this morning and that was fine too.

Thanks

Tony

[Stratmangler]

What do you use to clean your stylus?

[twotone]

What do you use to clean your stylus?

Hi Chris I use one of those rubber foot things and or AT 607 cleaning fluid but the cart manufacture doesn't recommend cleaning fluids but i find it works better than the foot thing.

Thanks

Tony

[Stratmangler]

In that case it sound like your stylus is on the way out.
I wouldn't bother replacing it with a Goldring 1042 stylus - despite what some folk say it is not the same as the Reson stylus, and the results it gives are nowhere near as good.

As the Reson is no longer made and the stylii are in very short supply (and bloody expensive too) you're going to be looking at a getting a different cartridge.
I have been in the same boat.
I decided to go with one of these ....

http://www.sumikoaudio.net/ContentsFiles/dettaglio_sumiko_blue_evo.jpg

[twotone]

Thanks Chris, just listening to that John Armatrading record again, sounds shit to be honest, a bit muddied too, first track (Down to The Ground) full of noise, the second track is a bit better but still sounds as though someone has thrown an old curtain over the speakers, probably a poor recording which is suprising as that record has some excellent reviews for recording quality which is why I bought it.

BTW, you can still buy Reson stylii from asite in Germany, I think, but they're about 400 euros.

Someone put a link up here a few months ago to a cart that was only about £45 from a seller in Italy, I might try that out just to see if it is the cart.

Thanks for the recommendation for the Sumiko, I'll have a look at reviews.

Tony

[Stratmangler]

About €400.00 sounds about right for a replacement stylus.
At that price I decided it was time to move on and try something else.

I bought my Sumiko online from here http://www.turntableworld.co.uk/

http://www.turntableworld.co.uk/departments-c49/cartridge-zone-c5/cartridges-mc-c15/blue-point-special-evo-iii-high-output-moving-coil-cartridge-p628

I will give one word of advice on the Sumiko - there's no stylus guard, so installing it requires steady hands and nerves of steel.

[walpurgis]

600 hours should not have worn the stylus out. Can you not get (borrow?) a microscope and check the tip. It could have a bit of dirt stuck to it. Alternatively the diamond may have been damaged, in which case you don't want to be playing records, as they'll suffer damage. A visual check is best. The diamond should be smooth and without any 'flats' at the sides where it contacts the groove.

[Ammonite Audio]

Or there's something wrong with its rubber suspension, but 600 hours is perhaps not that short a life for a stylus. For a more exotic but fully compatible stylus replacement, be aware that the Audio Note IQ series styli will fit (the IQ cartridge body is actually the same as the Reson).

[Audio Al]

Hi Tony

Have you set up the tracking weight ?

Also is the cart compatible with the phone stage , best ask Alan

Specifications:
Moving magnet phono cartridge –

Frequency response: 20Hz-30kHz ±2dB
Channel Separation: 25dB min. @1kHz
Channel Balance: 2dB max. @ 1kHz
Output: 6.5mV ±1dB @ 1kHz, 5cm/sec
Vertical Tracking Angle: 24 degrees
Stylus Type: Geiger S, replaceable
Load Resistance: 47,000 ohms.
Cartridge Weight: 6.3 g
Tracking Force: 1.5 – 2 g (1.65g recommended)

[Martyn Miles]

Hi guys, my current cart is a Reson Reca with unknown hours, I'm guessing maybe around the 600 hours mark,but in the past week I've noticed that on some records the sound is breaking up on certain tracks like the needle/stylus is dirty however on some records I know very well and which I know are definately clean and sound fine then those records sound okay.

I've no idea what inner groove distortion sounds like but the sound issuse happens at the start of an album or the second track or the last track so this issue is not confined to just one part of the record but can happen anywhere, for example I recieved a second edition copy of Joan Armatrading self title this morning (obviously second hand) and whilst the record looks absolutely mint I was experiencing this 'dirty needle' sound on the very first track now obviously that record could be ruined as I don't know it but it's a bit annoying now.

The only thing that's changed recently is my phono stage has been upgraded and re-installed back into the system and it is a very very revealing phono stage now, it's a Firebottle Plus valve stage with a MM/MC switch whereas previously it was the MK1 version of the amp and was only MM however it had resistors fitted into the inputs of the amp to lower the capacitance load to suit the Reson but those have been removed with the upgrade. I have contacted Alan for advice regarding the sound issue but I don't really think the problem is the amp, I think the amp is now showing up some of my records as being a bit poor in sound quality terms.

I'm currently playing Bil Evans Trio Waltz for Debby (re-issue) and it sounds superb with no issues whatsoever in fact jazz records have no problems re this sound issue just some records like the one above althoug I played Solid Air this morning and that was fine too.

Thanks

Tony

The best course of action is to send it to Expert Stylus .
They are a great company and will give you an honest opinion.

[twotone]

Hi Allen, the other Alan suggested increasing the tracking weight which I've done to 2.1gr from 1.7gr and certainly with the JA record it seems to have improved the sound of that record a great deal, I've also set the arm 'arse up' slightly.

The 'sound break-up' has disappeared on the JA record and guitars and vocals and acoustics are sounding much better now however there is a now touch of sibilance on the second track.

Just for clarity guys the 'sound break-up' sounds to me like a loose connection type of thing but it only happens (not happening now though) momentarily and for only seconds but other records don't have any of this noise.

I would probably best describe the noise as like listening to FM radio with a dodgy aerial or poor reception.

Tony


Hi Tony

Have you set up the tracking weight ?

Also is the cart compatible with the phone stage , best ask Alan

Specifications:
Moving magnet phono cartridge –

Frequency response: 20Hz-30kHz ±2dB
Channel Separation: 25dB min. @1kHz
Channel Balance: 2dB max. @ 1kHz
Output: 6.5mV ±1dB @ 1kHz, 5cm/sec
Vertical Tracking Angle: 24 degrees
Stylus Type: Geiger S, replaceable
Load Resistance: 47,000 ohms.
Cartridge Weight: 6.3 g
Tracking Force: 1.5 – 2 g (1.65g recommended)

[Audio Al]

Hi Tony

Thought it sounded like a tracking force error ,

That's what happens when the needle is floating and only just making contact with the record grooves

Glad its sorted now

:)

[twotone]

He Geoff, thanks, 600 hours is a total guess but it's probably a lot more than that, I can play records for hours at a time, sometimes as much as six hours on a Saturday for example and I usually play the entire record so probably at least an hour a day every day on average plus the hours that were on the cart when I bought it.

I'm definitely getting some sibilance now on the JA record which is another sign that the cart is on the way out I believe?

I'll maybe buy a cheap microscope though and have a look at the tip.

Tony


600 hours should not have worn the stylus out. Can you not get (borrow?) a microscope and check the tip. It could have a bit of dirt stuck to it. Alternatively the diamond may have been damaged, in which case you don't want to be playing records, as they'll suffer damage. A visual check is best. The diamond should be smooth and without any 'flats' at the sides where it contacts the groove.

[twotone]

Or there's something wrong with its rubber suspension, but 600 hours is perhaps not that short a life for a stylus. For a more exotic but fully compatible stylus replacement, be aware that the Audio Note IQ series styli will fit (the IQ cartridge body is actually the same as the Reson).

Thanks Hugo, I'm guessing that the AN stylus will be expensive?

I'm actually thinking about buying an Nagaoka MP 500:eek:to replace the Reson...

[twotone]

When the stylus starts to wear out do you usually have increase tracking weight Allen?


Hi Tony

Thought it sounded like a tracking force error ,

That's what happens when the needle is floating and only just making contact with the record grooves

Glad its sorted now

:)

[twotone]

The best course of action is to send it to Expert Stylus .
They are a great company and will give you an honest opinion.

Thanks Martin.

Tony

[Audio Al]

When the stylus starts to wear out do you usually have increase tracking weight Allen?

I does help slightly however my personal thoughts are that most cartridges meet their end through damage before over use

[twotone]

I does help slightly however my personal thoughts are that most cartridges meet their end through damage before over use

Thanks, there is a huge difference now (much better) but there's still some sibilance on vocals but I'm guessing that's down to the recording rather than my gear.

[Stratmangler]

You'd be better off dropping the VTF to 1.8 and dropping the tail end of the arm back down.
The cantilever suspension doesn't like tracking that heavily, and the increased downforce will be making the suspension ride lower than it should.

Joan Armatrading's eponymous album is sibilant on some of the vocals - they're all close miced and hot in the mix to start with.
Add in Joan's slight lisp, and you can see where I'm going with this one ....

[twotone]

You'd be better off dropping the VTF to 1.8 and dropping the tail end of the arm back down.
The cantilever suspension doesn't like tracking that heavily, and the increased downforce will be making the suspension ride lower than it should.

Joan Armatrading's eponymous album is sibilant on some of the vocals - they're all close miced and hot in the mix to start with.
Add in Joan's slight lisp, and you can see where I'm going with this one ....

Thanks Chris, I've dropped the 'arse' of the arm back down to nearer what it was to try to help with the sibilance, I'll lower the weight too but JA's album it does sound an awful lot better now.

BTW, it's some record, I love it but I grew up listening to a lot of the tracks on the radio back in the day.

[Stratmangler]

BTW, it's some record, I love it but I grew up listening to a lot of the tracks on the radio back in the day.

You should treat yourself to the Speakers Corner pressing - it's superb.
Still has the sibilant spots though.

[twotone]

You should treat yourself to the Speakers Corner pressing - it's superb.
Still has the sibilant spots though.

Thanks Chris, there's a couple on Discogs none in the UK though but I'll keep an eye out for a UK sourced once, see there's a Nimbus supercut listed for sale at £6, VG VG, the record must be listed in the wrong place and surely can't be a NImbus supercut, might PM the seller:)

[Stratmangler]

The Nimbus supercut is supposed to be exceptionally good.
Might be worth chasing up.

[twotone]

The Nimbus supercut is supposed to be exceptionally good.
Might be worth chasing up.

Just e-mailed the seller Chris:cool:

[twotone]

Hi guys I'm still having problems with this noise so I swapped the phono amp for the integrated amp's on board MM phono inputs and the noise has disappeared but I've only tried one record which was pretty bad for the noise so I'll have to put the valve phono stage back into the system and try with that same record again to confirm but the stylus sounded fantastic through the integrated amp phono section on a track that I was barely able to listen to five minutes earlier.

I've e-mailed Alan to let him know so I'll update this thread when we manage to get to the bottom of the problem.

Thanks

Tony

[Mike g]

Tony - seeing as you are in glasgow...johnie of audio origami fame offers a cartridge inspection service. Might be worth taking it to him to have a look. Alternatively he sells cartridge spy glasses with a built in torch - work pretty well for for looking for damage or dirt etc.

[twotone]

Tony - seeing as you are in glasgow...johnie of audio origami fame offers a cartridge inspection service. Might be worth taking it to him to have a look. Alternatively he sells cartridge spy glasses with a built in torch - work pretty well for for looking for damage or dirt etc.

Thanks Mike, I'll maybe go down that road but frustratingly I put the valve phono stage back in the system and there was no noise on the same record.

I think it's either a heat related problem or a loose connection and by moving the RCAs about I might have temporarily sorted it however I'll try the valve amp cold in the morning to see if that shows anything up.

Still don't think it's a stylus problem.

Tony