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View Full Version : Radford STA100 ... After months of waiting, it's here, and it's a cracker



montesquieu
23-10-2014, 20:53
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/rad2_zpsef86da6a.jpg (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/montesquieu61/media/rad2_zpsef86da6a.jpg.html)

After months of waiting (and wondering if it was worth the wait), it's finally arrived, and sounding pretty wonderful.

This STA100 project kicked off because I had been concerned that my Tannoy Canterbury cab/ HPD combo needed more welly than I had been throwing at it with my old KT88 300b interstage amp (30w and highish output impedance was giving me floppy bass on the HPDs where it had been magical with the Golds), and while various solid state and Class D options I tried produced an audible improvement in things like bass depth and quality, lack of something intangible led me to feel that what I really needed was a chunky valve amp. I got the amp from Finland anticipating little more than some capacitor re-forming as it had lain idle for a while. But it turned out to have a problem with one of the output transformers, so sorting things out took a little longer than anticipated. It's been with Graeme Hirst (Valvebloke) since June, mainly awaiting fresh output transformers after a bit of diagnostic detective work.

It's a bit of kit without much of an online profile, Radford's late 60s take on the KT88 PP amp, using Radford's characteristic phase-splitting technology on the input side. Very period in concept and with gobs of negative feedback (as do the much more common STA12, STA15 and STA25), it was intended as a studio workhorse and the original amp has 8-16 ohm windings and 100v line for professional use - this one is ex-BBC from 1967-1973 at which point it came into the possession of the owner I got it from, a professional studio engineer (ex-BBC himself) who had it at the heart of his personal setup for some years. The main input is single ended but balanced is possible, as balanced input transformers are fitted. I've only tried single ended so far but I will have a crack with balanced as my Music First MkII TVC has balanced input and output option while my AN 4.1x(-ish) DAC has balanced output into the MFA.

The few online references to it seem to be very polarised - on the one hand it's regarded by some as the best KT88 amp ever made (being a Radford and all); but for a couple of others of the view that pro gear like this should never be allowed in a living room, it's spawn of the devil - cold, harsh and unforgiving. I decided to give it the benefit of the doubt. Having come to the conclusion that properly sorted and with the right speakers (Quads or Tannoy Golds for example) the baby Radfords are streets ahead of any 60s or 70s competition and still better sounding than the majority of valve amps around today, I had to have a crack at their big brother. I didn't even know before I got into this that Radford had even made a KT88 amp - go to be worth a shot?

It was a bit of a nuisance when it arrived needing work, but in for a penny ... I had the option to trade it in to Will at Radford Revival for something more 'normal', but by this stage curiosity wouldn't be satisfied till I'd heard the thing. And talking to Will, it seemed that while it would be costly to sort, the transformer problem was actually something of an opportunity. Will pointed out that Radford's TT100 had a near-identical KT88 output stage (Radford went to solid state designs for some years after the STA100, then BACK to valves, at least for the output stage, for the later TT100 - though this was a hybrid amp with a FET input stage). But the output transformers in the T100 were wound for 4-8 ohms - much more sensible for modern speaker loads than the 8-16 ohm/100v setup of the original STA100.

Will had Arthur Radford's original spec sheets and was able to have new transformers wound to be essentially indistinguishable to originals, with even the original laminations still available. The output transformers are pretty special, bigger than most mains transformers, while the amp does actually sport two separate mains transformers for the power and signal sections. It is a real beast, the iron on it is quite staggering when you take the lid off. At the same time Graeme and Will worked out a method of getting rid of a slight measured instability in the power supply, by adding a sixth transformer - an additional choke - which (fingers crossed) together with substituting KT90s - unavailable back then - with higher voltage tolerances than KT88s, would hopefully eliminate any problems associated with the reputation it had way back when of throwing the occasional power valve when cranked up. (All mods - minor really - are easily reversible should full originality be required at some future date. But unless it's destined for a museum I doubt that will be required).

So how does it sound? Deathly quiet for starters, in large measure to Graeme's care in pulling it all together, I'm sure. Quite a surprise for such a big vintage beast. And then - it disappears. Massive, expansive sound stage. Great detail. Wonderful timbre with a clean, smooth top end. Not a hint of strain when cranked. Extremely natural, with the juiciness and bite of instruments and vocals coming across superbly. But most of all it has that wonderful snap and boogie that the STA15 and STA25 have on more sensible speakers (such as the Tannoy Golds I used to use). The STA100 is far from clinical but it's still at the opposite end of the spectrum from typical single ended amps which not only add (not necessarily wanted!) 'character' to the mix, I've usually found they also fail to light up the bigger Tannoys. The closest modern counterpart might be to some of the bigger EAR amps, but with perhaps a transparency-without-coldness that I've found my EARs (and I've had a few) never quite managed to deliver.

According to Graeme the measured specs are very good for a valve amp. Damping factor (he tells me) is around 24 which is probably about ideal for Tannoy DCs - too low you get floppy bass (as in any single ended amp I've tried with them), too high (as in most solid state amps) and the life is sucked out. (There are exceptions of course in both cases but this is my typical experience from a lot of trial and error).

Anyway I'm absolutely delighted with the STA100 - to be honest (and I've been around the block on valve amps and Tannoys over many years) I doubt there are many amps even in the same league for this purpose - Anthony's Copper Amps for sure, but not that many others I can think of. Over the moon with it and while I appreciate that this one has taken quite a bit of faffing and fettling to get 'just right', it was well worth the effort in the end.


http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/rad3_zpsf1905168.jpg (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/montesquieu61/media/rad3_zpsf1905168.jpg.html)

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/rad4_zpseeb0095d.jpg (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/montesquieu61/media/rad4_zpseeb0095d.jpg.html)

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/rad1_zps17946a9d.jpg (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/montesquieu61/media/rad1_zps17946a9d.jpg.html)


And a pic from the Radford Revival web site showing and STA100 (not mine) alongside the STA15 (I'm sure Will won't mind :) ):

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/SAM_0050_zps22550684.jpg (http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/montesquieu61/media/SAM_0050_zps22550684.jpg.html)

awkwardbydesign
23-10-2014, 21:03
Thanks for that. Some nice explanations in there.

struth
23-10-2014, 21:29
Looks a cracker Tom. A lot of iron in those transformers........PS: those speakers are awesome.:)

Radford Revival
23-10-2014, 21:40
The output transformers in these are beasts with lots of inductance. The difference between them and the original transformers, as Tom mentions, is the secondary impedance. The primary windings are identical in both turns count and interleaving, the secondary is actually simplified with fewer turns compared to the original STA100 design as it no longer needs to accommodate 100V line output. This meant the amplifier could be the "same" but much better matched to conventional loads. Due to the clever design of these transformers, their top end bandwidth is very good despite their massive size.


Glad to see it has all come together Tom :)

Mr Kipling
23-10-2014, 21:57
It's a bit of a … BEAST, then, is it?

montesquieu
23-10-2014, 22:03
Looks a cracker Tom. A lot of iron in those transformers........PS: those speakers are awesome.:)


All written up some time ago :)

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31076-New-arrivals-Tannoy-corner-Canterbury-with-12in-Monitor-Gold

walpurgis
23-10-2014, 22:15
Very nice. Can I borrow it? :eyebrows:

montesquieu
23-10-2014, 22:19
Very nice. Can I borrow it? :eyebrows:

Only when I'm finished with it :ner:

Reffc
24-10-2014, 05:09
I'm delighted for you Tom. It's been quite some journey but worth all the effort in the end.Will and Steve Moores have done an astonishing job in their goal of sorting the transformers for the design. I reckon when they start producing STA100 amps, they'll fly off the shelves...at last, a British built alternative to all the (mostly inferior & over-priced) monster valve amps from overseas. Graham's of course done a great job too. It must be pretty satisfying to have had half your hifi set up now designed or made by a handful of people who contribute to this and other forums!

Radford Revival
24-10-2014, 08:24
I reckon when they start producing STA100 amps, they'll fly off the shelves...

Hopefully ;)

We don't quite intend to make STA100 replicas but definitely something very similar and using output transformers heavily based on (if not the same as) the ones in Tom's amp.


Graham's of course done a great job too.

Indeed, he took a lot of care to ensure everything was up to spec, and added a choke which significantly improved certain aspects of the performance of the amp (modulation products from the power supply).

Frankyc2003
24-10-2014, 09:52
I have to say that Tom very kindly treated me to a sneak preview of the Radford while I was picking up his Lenco, and it is PRETTY AMAZING. Hard not to fall in love…;)

Thanks Tom!

PS. The Lenco is in safe hands… An Audio Note arm is coming soon!

montesquieu
24-10-2014, 11:04
I have to say that Tom very kindly treated me to a sneak preview of the Radford while I was picking up his Lenco, and it is PRETTY AMAZING. Hard not to fall in love…;)

Thanks Tom!

PS. The Lenco is in safe hands… An Audio Note arm is coming soon!


Cheers Francois ... it's all about matching. I knew when I got the Canterburys (which Paul did the detail design work on ... :) ) and especially after he recommended swapping the Golds for HPDs (which went against years of conditioning for me as a lover of vintage Golds) that there was far more to come from them and till now the nearest I got to getting that out of them was with a Lyngdorf SDA2175. But this just takes them to another level.

What I find fascinating is that I have essentially vintage gear that sounds bang up to date - seems to me that a lot what people associate with vintage (woollyness, lack of extension, quaint charm) comes either from running clapped out gear or mis-matching it in the first place.

As Paul says too, it's a great pleasure that the bulk of my kit has been designed, built or hand-crafted/restored in some way by members of our extended community, the collective skill and knowledge in these parts is quite remarkable.

Awaiting some finishing touches and I'll do a write-up of the current setup, it's gone through major evolution in the last 18 months so well worth documenting. Also it's high time I had another Classical Music/'not a bakeoff' day!

User211
24-10-2014, 11:47
I don't know about the Radford circuit, Tom, but I found literally huge differences in sound swapping KT88s in an Air Tight ATM2. Rated best in that NOS Tung Sol 6550 and I hate to say it but what is now the rip off priced EAT KT88. Once a Tesla valve for £80 each, they were leagues ahead of anything else but very unreliable.

Enjoy anyway. Looks fabulous in an amp junkie kind of way:)

Mark Pope
24-10-2014, 14:19
Tom,

what a fascinating post. I had no idea there were any other Radford valve amps other than the STA-15 and the STA-25.
I would guess that the STA-100 would be up there in the thread about the heaviest kit that's running elsewhere on the forum.

The Barbarian
24-10-2014, 14:32
That Rad & TD are nice Tom.

Macca
24-10-2014, 15:25
Lovely bit of kit and a great write up too. I'd read about Radford amps for years and you know how it is, you put a certain amount of it down to over-enthusiasm. Only when you hear one that you realise there is a good reason for that enthusiasm.

Valvebloke
24-10-2014, 16:49
Thanks for the kind words folks :). This was an interesting amp to work on. The output stage was reasonably conventional, and even more so after I added the choke to the HT rail and took the Zener diode out of the bias supply. All of the cleverness is in those remarkable output transformers of course. They are serious items. The 1kHz performance is impressive, but what's even more impressive is the punch they pack down at 20Hz. The front end is a bit more idiosyncratic. When did you last see a pair of EF184s in an audio amp, for example ? It's also fairly clear that it was designed for use in a professional environment. There are balance pots for the phase-splitters which allow the overall 2nd harmonic distortion to be nulled out. But you need a spectrum analyser to be able to set it optimally. And the direct coupling between the input stage and the splitter means that for the very best performance it needs to be done each time any of the small-signal valves is changed. I wasn't sure which ECC88 Tom might fancy so I've lent him a couple of alternatives to the stock Mullards to try. Since he won't be in a position to fiddle with the balance pot I had to select two of each type which would drop straight into the left and right channels, and mark each one with a dot of coloured nail varnish so he knows which goes in which channel !


I don't know about the Radford circuit, Tom, but I found literally huge differences in sound swapping KT88s in an Air Tight ATM2. Rated best in that NOS Tung Sol 6550 ...

NOS 6550s might well be more robust than modern production ones but it would still be asking a great deal of them to run them in this amp I'm afraid. It's ultralinear, so the screens run at even higher DC voltage than the anodes, and Tung Sol say the absolute max is 500V http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/6/6550.pdf. The STA100 puts the best part of 600V on them.


... I would guess that the STA-100 would be up there in the thread about the heaviest kit that's running elsewhere on the forum.

It's not ridiculous - I weighed it in at 29kg with the valve cage off, most of which is transformers. Your face does change colour somewhat if you have to carry it very far though. And getting it up and down the workshop steps involved a few deep breaths !

VB

loo
24-10-2014, 17:15
That looks fabulous I love the original cosmetic, very nice:cool:


The front end is a bit more idiosyncratic. When did you last see a pair of EF184s in an audio amp, for example ?
VB
I see a Quad of them every day in my Graaf;)

Valvebloke
24-10-2014, 17:58
... I see a Quad of them every day in my Graaf;)

Interesting. Radford weren't the only ones then to realise that a high-transconductance TV IF valve might have something to contribute to an audio amp with a drive-hungry output stage.

VB

loo
24-10-2014, 18:01
Interesting. Radford weren't the only ones then to realise that a high-transconductance TV IF valve might have something to contribute to an audio amp with a drive-hungry output stage.

VB

It seems not but they could well of been the first:)
cheers
Paul

User211
24-10-2014, 21:41
Well the Tung Sols were certainly better than JJ, Valve Art and Sovtek options. At the time I wished the amp could work with these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEC-TT21-VALVES-TUBES-IN-ORIGINAL-BOXES-SIMILAR-TO-KT88-/121464867087?pt=UK_Collectables_RadioTelevision_Te lephony_SM&hash=item1c47dec90f

They can still be had for a reasonable price. I don't know if a mod could be done to allow their use, but I would seriously consider it if so.

Just an idea maybe worth thinking about.

montesquieu
24-10-2014, 21:51
Well the Tung Sols were certainly better than JJ, Valve Art and Sovtek options. At the time I wished the amp could work with these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEC-TT21-VALVES-TUBES-IN-ORIGINAL-BOXES-SIMILAR-TO-KT88-/121464867087?pt=UK_Collectables_RadioTelevision_Te lephony_SM&hash=item1c47dec90f

They can still be had for a reasonable price. I don't know if a mod could be done to allow their use, but I would seriously consider it if so.

Just an idea maybe worth thinking about.

Don't you love it when a thread gets a bit mental!

To be honest Justin, I have no desire to bugger about with it. Suitably unplugged I will probably try out the valves Graeme has kindly left with me, but given that his opening shot when he dropped it off was along the lines of 'be careful when you have the lid off, there are quite a few things in there that if you touch them they WILL kill you' ... and the fact that it sounds pretty wonderful already, I'm really not minded to mess around with the cage off. I am just planning to sit back and enjoy the thing.

Interesting tubes though :scratch:

struth
24-10-2014, 21:54
Wise man:)

User211
24-10-2014, 22:04
I know I'd do it, Tom. Sooner or later just a question of time but I WOULD do it if doable for reasonable money. Mind you I am a tube rolling junkie - you should see the collection of tubes I've already amassed for zee DAC:D

Just enjoying it as it is cool. Hell you might not even like the GECs anyway.

Firebottle
25-10-2014, 06:44
As for EF184 they are a rather good pentode, with fixed transconductance, unlike other types usually used in IF strips.

I also use them in my OuTLaw OTL amp.

:cool: Alan

TheMooN
25-10-2014, 10:51
Very nice indeed Tom, excellent re-design and winding work on the OPT from Will, followed up with an well considered modifications/re-build from Graeme, makes for a pleasant change from the vogue that is SET.:)


I quite concur with your considerations in that good quality Vintage Valve equipment, judiciously implemented, may still hold it's own half a century later. Although having run with pretty much all the oft mentioned suspects e.g Lowther LL26, PYE HF25, Audiomaster 11A etc.etc, including all the Domestic Radford's, I am a little less in alignment with your,

"Having come to the conclusion that properly sorted and with the right speakers (Quads or Tannoy Golds for example) the baby Radfords are streets ahead of any 60s or 70s competition"

montesquieu
25-10-2014, 11:14
Very nice indeed Tom, excellent re-design and winding work on the OPT from Will, followed up with an well considered modifications/re-build from Graeme, makes for a pleasant change from the vogue that is SET.:)


I quite concur with your considerations in that good quality Vintage Valve equipment, judiciously implemented, may still hold it's own half a century later. Although having run with pretty much all the oft mentioned suspects e.g Lowther LL26, PYE HF25, Audiomaster 11A etc.etc, including all the Domestic Radford's, I am a little less in alignment with your,

"Having come to the conclusion that properly sorted and with the right speakers (Quads or Tannoy Golds for example) the baby Radfords are streets ahead of any 60s or 70s competition"

Not disparaging rivals such as Leak or Quad in any way ... both, properly sorted, have enormous strengths, particularly with the speakers you mention, it's just that for me Radford tends to be more complete ... I can think of a number of times I've come to this conclusion, but one occasion in particular sticks in the mind, a back to back, multi-way comparison on Quad ESLs between Quad II monoblocks, Leak Stereo 20, Radford Sta15 and a couple of more far more expensive modern amps including my own EAR V20 at the time. The Radford easily carried the day on just about every measure, to a fair bit of surprise and even consternation.

ESLs are very particular of course and not representative of every load by any means but that's where my own view on this was largely formed (subsequently confirmed of course as expectation bias often is, perhaps!). Though perhaps 'streets ahead' was over-egging it.

TheMooN
25-10-2014, 12:26
Oh, Again, and for my part, I would concur with your conclusions in respect to that particular shoot out Tom ;)

I was merely putting forward the case that whilst I highly rate the Radford's, that again and for my part, consider that there are other Vintage amplifiers from the 50>70's sporting very costly, for the time, OPT's, e,g Partridge C and Double C core's , Loather C core in Blighty and further afield, Sansui 410 IE, Mackintosh Bifilar, Tamura, UTC, that perform spectacularly well on Scope and Ear.

Anyhoo, Discourse here should really be in respect to your Lovely new amp Tom, of which I wish you Joy:)

Reffc
25-10-2014, 15:43
Don't you love it when a thread gets a bit mental!

To be honest Justin, I have no desire to bugger about with it. Suitably unplugged I will probably try out the valves Graeme has kindly left with me, but given that his opening shot when he dropped it off was along the lines of 'be careful when you have the lid off, there are quite a few things in there that if you touch them they WILL kill you' ... and the fact that it sounds pretty wonderful already, I'm really not minded to mess around with the cage off. I am just planning to sit back and enjoy the thing.

Interesting tubes though :scratch:

Very sensible attitude Tom...just enjoy the thing and don't get hooked up on valve rolling. TBH, the whole valve rolling thing can be a little self-disillusional (although few would admit to such) in respect of the fact that power supplies, output transformers and the circuit itself determines to a greater extent how a valve amp sounds and not which brand of valve it uses (eg a decent valve cannot cure a bad amplifier for example). In your case, happily, it's a good amplifier. I find this valve rolling thng especially true when in the past "rolling" output valves with little or no real effect on the sound. I just plump for which ones the amp is designed to use and pick a known reliable brand as reliability of the output valves is more important than a boutique branding. The driver and phase inverter valves to seem to have more of a sonic impact as they affect the sonic architecture of the whole circuit down-stream of them though. There appears to be no construction standard for many of these preamp/driver valves hence they do seem to have varying effects on the sound between the brands/types.

montesquieu
25-10-2014, 16:00
Oh, Again, and for my part, I would concur with your conclusions in respect to that particular shoot out Tom ;)



I forgot entirely you were at that! Indeed it was quite an afternoon ...

And I have to bow to age and experience on the other question, I was a student in the early 80s and though I bought an LP12 with near enough my first wage packet (well actually, with my first credit card ...) by the mid 80s when I finally had a few bob to spend, the great days of valves had already passed and I missed it. I'm happy to admit there's a lot of wonderful gear from that era I've missed entirely.

montesquieu
25-10-2014, 16:05
I find this valve rolling thng especially true when in the past "rolling" output valves with little or no real effect on the sound. I just plump for which ones the amp is designed to use and pick a known reliable brand as reliability of the output valves is more important than a boutique branding. T

Frequently my experience as well, Paul ... there are exceptions, for example both a Leben power amp and an AI S500 I owned seemed to like a particular Russian EL34/KT77 lookalike whose designation escapes me, and came alive with a set installed. Likewise I've had some good experiences with Telefunken 12AX7s (or their ECC equivalents) in phono stages. My last KT88 amp, a TD modded Puresound A30, also responded really well to the original Svetlana Winged C valves.

But for me, I have to agree, 90% of the time I find little if any difference, and even if there is a difference, calling it an improvement is difficult. In this case I'm sticking with the KT90s, for headroom reasons. They sound superb to me.

User211
25-10-2014, 16:30
Here's a quick summary of what I think, given you chaps seem to have your minds set anyway.

People won't agree with this - everyone will have different experiences and hear different things. I'm only going to cover output valves as I always find small signal valves make far less difference. They are still well capable of making something sound unacceptable to me, though, a recent example being some Russian rocket logo 6922 equivs that really were rough.

Of all output valves, with the amps I have owned, I find the 211 varies the least, sonically. I can live with quads of Amperex, RCA , GE and Shuguang 211 in my amp quite happily. They ARE different, but there isn't MUCH difference. Even the el cheapo Shuguang RCA copies are really very good. For the last nth of performance, though, I favour the Amperex.

KT88s in the Air Tight? The amp was only really on form with the unreliable Teslas. A great shame. But the real shocker for me was there was quite a profound difference between different types. Most really were not very good. Valve Arts and Sovteks I could not listen to for ANY length of time.

Beard BB100 - Russian EL84s great in that with super high reliability but really sonically quite a bit nicer with JJs. NOS options really not worth considering on cost grounds.

Output stage of B7 DAC - so far I find Tung Sol 6A3 to easily give the best bass. It is my fave output tube so far, but I am gradually working my way through quite a few - Philco 45 ST shape, Cunningham CX345 Globes, Sylvania VT52, Psvane 211T, EH 2A3. Will try some 300Bs, 101D and 6B4Gs (socket adaptor required) soon. I believe PX4, R120 and quite a few other triodes will work too.

The difference in these triodes is NOT subtle. Far from it in my book, and that is the book that counts for me.

Call me a mad man but I really enjoy hearing the changes between these devices. Also, quite a few of these old triodes really don't cost very much WRT the DAC. Fired up my system runs precisely 30 tubes, and I just love fine tuning it by rolling various devices in and out of it. Plus the valves themselves really aren't a bad investment.

User211
25-10-2014, 16:49
Please don't read into that that I think KT88s are shite. There are more current production opions available now and I believe Svet, Gold Lion and Tung Sols have all made various KT88 amp owners very happy!:)

Radford Revival
25-10-2014, 17:54
In the case of an STA100 (and other Radfords) the output valves are contained within a fairly heavy feedback loop so while differences between valves may be evident in the distortion residual it should be largely below any perceivable threshold, as was intended by the design.

petrat
26-10-2014, 09:12
Nice write-up, Tom!
Also pleased that the hunt for the 'perfect' amplifier for big Tannoys has ended with such an iconic and, yes, British brand. In many ways, your system is the 'best of vintage', whereas mine is the current equivalent ... different routes, but probably very similar result.

DSJR
26-10-2014, 09:25
Radfords are all about the output transformers and I believe they were a step ahead at the time. makes me pine for the STA25 I once had - and in the mid 70's, nobody wanted to know :(

Idlewithnodrive
29-10-2014, 19:07
Lovely looking (and sounding I bet) Amp Tom.

Really nice to see such an iconic Amp being lovingly restored and appreciated. The rarity factor doesn't hurt either.

lilolee
08-11-2014, 06:18
Damn, wish I hadn't got rid of my ST35 now

http://leehibbert.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/hifi/radford_sta35.jpg