View Full Version : Ortofon 2M Black on an SME V?
Hi kids, after much fannying and dithering regarding my present cartridge situation l am narrowing things down and trying to move the whole sorry situation along so l ask this:
What is the Ortofon 2M Black like on an SME V?
On paper and the innernet things seem good;
High output; :eek:
Easily interchangeable stylus:eek:
Cost:eek::eek:
Good tracking.:eek:
Looking for a smooth, but musical sound with good tonal colouring- l have bolted a 2M Red on my Gyro/SME V :lol::lol:and have been rather surprise by the sound so would like some opinions from members who run the SME V/ 2M Black- cheers!:cool:
Wakefield Turntables
21-10-2014, 18:52
IT should make for an extremely good combo. I think the 2M Black is probably one of the best budget MM's thats been out in ages. If it wasn't for the fact I have my Shure V mk3 I'd have one.
I wouldn't class it as a budget MM.
On my FXR, it's sublime. I can't see why it would not work on a SME V.
Andy there's a link to a Japanese guy on PFM who sells Nagaoka MP 500s at 'not for profit' which basically translates as £240 plus delivery plus you 'could' get stung for 30% on top in the way of customs charges but that still works out at about £340-ish.
I know where my money would be going :eyebrows:
Tony
Please delete Marco dear boy if this link isn't allowed:)
http://www.audiokazu.com/
I wouldn't class it as a budget MM.
On my FXR, it's sublime. I can't see why it would not work on a SME V.
Aye a £500 budget cart, I buy them all of them time:rolleyes:
I recently read somewhere that the AT150ANV was considered the best MM cartridge currently available.
Wakefield Turntables
21-10-2014, 20:06
£500 is a budget cart compared to the £1750 I paid for the Cadenza Black. ;)
Looking for a smooth, but musical sound with good tonal colouring
Hi Andy.
IME, the 2M Black is a bit (a lot!) of a difficult cartridge to set up properly due to its 'trick' stylus. When I had it on my SME IV, I found it rather 'stark' and hi-fi sounding, if you see what I mean. IMO, a much better bet to deliver your requirements would be the Audio Note IQ3, which is both lively, tonally rich, and detailed, is much easier to set up, and has a stylus that lasts forever. PM me if you fancy giving one a try.
£500 is a budget cart compared to the £1750 I paid for the Cadenza Black. ;)
Aye is that right, good for you:)
Hi Andy.
IME, the 2M Black is a bit (a lot!) of a difficult cartridge to set up properly due to its 'trick' stylus. When I had it on my SME IV, I found it rather 'stark' and hi-fi sounding, if you see what I mean. IMO, a much better bet to deliver your requirements would be the Audio Note IQ3, which is both lively, tonally rich, and detailed, is much easier to set up, and has a stylus that lasts forever. PM me if you fancy giving one a try.
Thanks for the reply and offer Peter, l would not be setting the 2M Black up if l decided to go down this route due to the very reasons you mention-my dealer will be doing this.:)
walpurgis
21-10-2014, 20:49
Aye a £500 budget cart, I buy them all of them time:rolleyes:
Around £500 is the beginning of serious MCs these days (the DL-103R being the only cheaper excellent MC I can think of) .
The 2M Black is no harder to setup than many cartridges with exotic stylus profiles. Just because it's not hyper expensive doesn't mean you can be casual about setup. Take care with it, use a good setup tool for overhang and 2 point protractor and then enjoy....
Around £500 is the beginning of serious MCs these days (the DL-103R being the only cheaper excellent MC I can think of) .
The two M Black is a MM cart Geoff and isn't exactly cheap for a MM cart either in fact it's probably one of the most expensive MM currently, it's up there with the most expensive so hardly a budget cart IMO.
RobbieGong
21-10-2014, 22:16
John (Prestonchipfryer), Is a big big fan like myself and has had the Black on his SME V / Techie for ages. I believe he's had mc's before and is onto his second Black now ;)
RobbieGong
21-10-2014, 22:25
The two M Black is a MM cart Geoff and isn't exactly cheap for a MM cart either in fact it's probably one of the most expensive MM currently, it's up there with the most expensive so hardly a budget cart IMO.
The 2M Black isnt a budget mm cart, it's a high end mm. I think what Rexton really meant was that it is a budget cart compared to what hi end carts can cost - (see post 7). I get his point. I also agree with his view (post 2) that it is probably one of the best budget high end carts out there.
walpurgis
21-10-2014, 22:39
budget high end carts.
Is that not a contradiction in terms? :)
Clive197
21-10-2014, 22:44
Thanks for the reply and offer Peter, l would not be setting the 2M Black up if l decided to go down this route due to the very reasons you mention-my dealer will be doing this.:)
One of the joys of owning and listening to a top cartridge is knowing that you set it up. It doesn't matter which one but the 2M Black with Shibata cut diamond on a Boron cantilever is a marriage made in heaven. I have owned one so that is an honest opinion. I now own and run the Cadenza Black via a Cadenza Bronze in between. Couldn't wait to get back the Shibata/Boron combo.
RobbieGong
21-10-2014, 22:46
Is that not a contradiction in terms? :)
No because I'm sure you know what I mean or what I'm trying to say .....
walpurgis
21-10-2014, 22:48
No because I'm sure you know what I mean or what I'm trying to say .....
Of course I do. :)
Anybody else care to chime in regarding the 2M Black?:)
It sounds great, but shop around for a bargain. ;)
Anybody else care to chime in regarding the 2M Black?:)
at least if you dont like it there will be queue of guys wanting it off you. Sure it will be super on your arm though; I'm about to try a DL110. no idea what it will be like on mine so its a shot in the dark..
Anybody else care to chime in regarding the 2M Black?:)
Reson Reca, which I have, is supposed to be as good as a 2m black but they're rare and so are replacement stylii, they are essentially Goldring 1042s on steriods.
There's a German site selling them for about 400 euros.
Tony
Anybody else care to chime in regarding the 2M Black?:)
An older review, but non the worse for that: http://www.stereophile.com/phonocartridges/737/
The conclusion: "The performance of the Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood was so ear-opening that I recommend that anyone thinking of spending up to $2500 on a moving-coil cartridge consider buying the $750 Wood instead, and investing the money saved in better components elsewhere in the system."
Is this another ''how long is a piece of string''? thread. There are so many variables, your tastes (one man's ''smooth'' can be another persons 'bland''). Your other equipment, especially phonostage and speakers, above all, your room.
All of it comes into the mix. The Ortofon wouldn't be my choice (for my own taste it is a bit ''hi fi'' ) but my choice is irrelevant. Difficult as it can be, there is no substitute for hearing the cartridge yourself.
If not, it's just a gamble. Unfortunately, that's the situation these days. Finding the right cartridge has become a hard task. And some of the 'groupthink' you come across isn't really much help.
prestonchipfryer
23-10-2014, 15:58
The Ortofon wouldn't be my choice (for my own taste it is a bit ''hi fi'' ).
As a user of the 2M Black I'd agree that it is does have a ''hi-fi'' sound but sounds excellent for my taste. Maybe a HO MC like the Sumiko BPS or a Dynavector DV20H would be less of a ''hi-fi'' sound?
Hi kids, after much fannying and dithering regarding my present cartridge situation l am narrowing things down and trying to move the whole sorry situation along so l ask this:
What is the Ortofon 2M Black like on an SME V?
On paper and the innernet things seem good;
High output; :eek:
Easily interchangeable stylus:eek:
Cost:eek::eek:
Good tracking.:eek:
Looking for a smooth, but musical sound with good tonal colouring- l have bolted a 2M Red on my Gyro/SME V :lol::lol:and have been rather surprise by the sound so would like some opinions from members who run the SME V/ 2M Black- cheers!:cool:
Hi Andy,
As you can see from my system set up I use the 2M Black and I can honestly say it is a truly superb cartridge.
Someone did mention that it sounds a bit Hifi but I believe this could be interpreted as a 'live' sound. It still thrills me 18 months on and is certainly a cartridge I could live with for a very long time.
It does so many things right. Try and get to hear one if you can and you will not be disappointed!
RobbieGong
23-10-2014, 17:26
Hi Andy,
As you can see from my system set up I use the 2M Black and I can honestly say it is a truly superb cartridge.
Someone did mention that it sounds a bit Hifi but I believe this could be interpreted as a 'live' sound. It still thrills me 18 months on and is certainly a cartridge I could live with for a very long time.
It does so many things right. Try and get to hear one if you can and you will not be disappointed!
+1
Is this another ''how long is a piece of string''? thread. There are so many variables, your tastes (one man's ''smooth'' can be another persons 'bland''). Your other equipment, especially phonostage and speakers, above all, your room.
All of it comes into the mix. The Ortofon wouldn't be my choice (for my own taste it is a bit ''hi fi'' ) but my choice is irrelevant. Difficult as it can be, there is no substitute for hearing the cartridge yourself.
If not, it's just a gamble. Unfortunately, that's the situation these days. Finding the right cartridge has become a hard task. And some of the 'groupthink' you come across isn't really much help.
This, I think, totally sums up the "Find a New Cartridge" problem to which there is no easy answer. The opinions of others are useful but cannot in themselves provide a fully fledged answer. Only clues and trends.
And paying a high price for a cartridge does not automatically provide a guaranteed result - as I have found out the hard way with a couple of four figure cartridges that "Groupthink" suggested would give me the result I was looking for. Both good carts for some, and in a different system, but I'm back with an SAE 1000LT as it sounds sublime and leaves my 2 expensive carts for dead (and at a quarter of the price). Nothing wrong with the opinions and guidance of others, but recognise them for what they are and treat the information accordingly.
BUT............ if ever there were two cartridges that continually come up in discussion as a "must try before you die" category, it's the 2M Black and the Denon 103r. Only one way to find out really I suppose. Curiosity can be a terrible thing.
Hi Andy,
As you can see from my system set up I use the 2M Black and I can honestly say it is a truly superb cartridge.
Someone did mention that it sounds a bit Hifi but I believe this could be interpreted as a 'live' sound. It still thrills me 18 months on and is certainly a cartridge I could live with for a very long time.
It does so many things right. Try and get to hear one if you can and you will not be disappointed!
Interesting, l must say that after an evening on the lash, l am play my records again and the 2M Red sounds very good, l am trying to catch it out and l cannot- Lord only knows how good the Black will sound!;)
Interesting, l must say that after an evening on the lash, l am play my records again and the 2M Red sounds very good, l am trying to catch it out and l cannot- Lord only knows how good the Black will sound!;)
To be honest the 2M black is one of the reasons I find my system so addictive to listen too, it makes the hairs stand up on the back of your neck with good analogue recordings.
Alan (Firebottle) can confirm this as he has heard it a few times.
I have also heard the 2M black in a completely different system on a cheaper TT but with mega amplification and KEF Blades - oh my god!! Awesome! ( I'm not trying to persude you but it really is a very good cartridge)
This, I think, totally sums up the "Find a New Cartridge" problem to which there is no easy answer. The opinions of others are useful but cannot in themselves provide a fully fledged answer. Only clues and trends.
And paying a high price for a cartridge does not automatically provide a guaranteed result - as I have found out the hard way with a couple of four figure cartridges that "Groupthink" suggested would give me the result I was looking for. Both good carts for some, and in a different system, but I'm back with an SAE 1000LT as it sounds sublime and leaves my 2 expensive carts for dead (and at a quarter of the price). Nothing wrong with the opinions and guidance of others, but recognise them for what they are and treat the information accordingly.
BUT............ if ever there were two cartridges that continually come up in discussion as a "must try before you die" category, it's the 2M Black and the Denon 103r. Only one way to find out really I suppose. Curiosity can be a terrible thing.
I have to admit that I have also just refitted my SAE1000LT, and I am in no hurry to change it back to my 2M Black. The SAE1000LT is very musical.
A change is as good as a break. I really can't decide which is my favourite between the 2M black, SAE1000LT and the AT150MLX
Just one last point everyone, how is the 2M Black with surface noise?:)
Just one last point everyone, how is the 2M Black with surface noise?:)
Not great:(
Wakefield Turntables
24-10-2014, 16:41
Not great:(
I find that hard to believe, my Cadenza black is excellent. Has it been setup properly? :scratch: How's your VTA?
prestonchipfryer
24-10-2014, 17:16
No excessive surface noise with my 2M Black.
I find that hard to believe, my Cadenza black is excellent. Has it been setup properly? :scratch: How's your VTA?
My room is a bit live and small so i probably am a little more aware of surface clicks and pops.
Clive197
25-10-2014, 09:55
Never had any problem with 2M Black or either of my Cadenzas or the Kontrapunct B that I had on my Linn.
Wakefield Turntables
25-10-2014, 13:31
For what its worth I dont think your room has anything to do with "clicks and pops", I think IMHO its the cartridge/vinyl interface thats not optimal. Check you VTA, tracking weight, and also antiskate. The V & Ortofon's combo is very prone to poor VTA setup. I'm not Einstein when it comes to hifi but I'd like to think I know a little about V's and Ortofon's, I've quite a few off them. :cool:
For what its worth I dont think your room has anything to do with "clicks and pops", I think IMHO its the cartridge/vinyl interface thats not optimal. Check you VTA, tracking weight, and also antiskate. The V & Ortofon's combo is very prone to poor VTA setup. I'm not Einstein when it comes to hifi but I'd like to think I know a little about V's and Ortofon's, I've quite a few off them. :cool:
Hey Rexton, my 2M cartridge tracks at between 1.5 -1.65 and azimuth and VTA are as close as I can get them set up. I am not going to alter VTA for every record I play so it is a compromise.
I know my room is a bit lively as I have had quite an education in room acoustics to know where mine stands and as I listen fairly near field surface noise is quite apparent.
Detail retrieval via my system is extremely good via some modified Croft amps which incidently partner very well with the 2M. Sometimes the cartridge reminds me of a Decca Blue I used to run on a Garrard 301 but obviously a lot better behaved:lol:
Wakefield Turntables
25-10-2014, 19:27
Hey Rexton, my 2M cartridge tracks at between 1.5 -1.65 and azimuth and VTA are as close as I can get them set up. I am not going to alter VTA for every record I play so it is a compromise.
I know my room is a bit lively as I have had quite an education in room acoustics to know where mine stands and as I listen fairly near field surface noise is quite apparent.
Detail retrieval via my system is extremely good via some modified Croft amps which incidently partner very well with the 2M. Sometimes the cartridge reminds me of a Decca Blue I used to run on a Garrard 301 but obviously a lot better behaved:lol:
jAMES,
Sounds like you know what your talking about! At the end of the day you'll know your system better than anyone else. Croft amps are fantastic. I run a croft/radford combo and love them.
Andy
jAMES,
Sounds like you know what your talking about! At the end of the day you'll know your system better than anyone else. Croft amps are fantastic. I run a croft/radford combo and love them.
Andy
The Croft combination works very well with the 2M Black, although I was impressed with Firebottles phono running through the 25R line stage into the series 7. The Decca cartridge via the Croft does make you drop jaw on occasions but it is not the all round package the 2M Black gives you. Definitely a cartridge you can live with every day without fuss. Would like to try an Ortofon MC but no compatibility with the Croft:(
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