Help me ID my TT

[Stiffy]

Can someone please give me some info on this turntable and what it might be worth if I were to sell it?
I'm informed its an early 'Acoustic Research The TT' but I can't find any similar images on the net. :scratch:

[walpurgis]

I also reckon it's an AR, but in an unusual plinth. The later eighties ARs had that conical section (sloped) platter edge if I recall, the early ones had vertical sides.

[synsei]

I also reckon it's an AR, but in an unusual plinth. The later eighties ARs had that conical section (sloped) platter edge if I recall, the early ones had vertical sides.

Although it's difficult to tell from the camera angle that platter does have sloping sides, it is indeed a re-plinthed AR - The Turntable ;)

http://www.vinylnirvana.com/gallery/ar_rose_01.jpg

[Stiffy]

Sorry about the camera angle.
The platter has definitely got sloping edges and I believe it was re-plinthed in a previous life.

Any idea what it might be worth and what I'd have to spend to get something of comparable quality now?

[struth]

Although it's difficult to tell from the camera angle that platter does have sloping sides, it is indeed a re-plinthed AR - The Turntable ;)

http://www.vinylnirvana.com/gallery/ar_rose_01.jpg

That's a nice bit of tree Dave....as they say up here, a stoater!

[walpurgis]

I reckon it may fetch £150 to £180 with a lid, twenty less without. Why would you want something comparable if you already have it? They're a decent turntable.

[Stiffy]

I'm not selling it…….I've always just wondered what it was worth.

[synsei]

Sorry about the camera angle.
The platter has definitely got sloping edges and I believe it was re-plinthed in a previous life.

Any idea what it might be worth and what I'd have to spend to get something of comparable quality now?

Not sure of the value with the re-plinth but originals tend to fetch between £100 - £250 depending on the condition. If I were you I'd keep it as there is a vibrant modding community for these decks in the US and from all accounts they can be taken to very high levels of performance, not that the standard deck is shabby in this regard. Nice deck btw ;)

[The Grand Wazoo]

It does look as though it's been modified as the badge is not of the same age as the rest of it, although the black top plate does have the look of those from the earlier AR decks up to and including the XB-77 - but everything else is wrong for it to be one of those! The armboard uses slot-headed screws, which is not an AR thing at all - black Allen bolts would be more in keeping. The arm is the same as the one from 'The Turntable' and the 'Legend' (you could also get those armless or with a Linn LVX) but different from the one on the EB-101.
There were other AR models though, and the wood surround has a little of the look of some ES-1s which had solid wooden surrounds rather than the veneer of the other decks, but the top plate and switch are wrong for that. The ES-1 looked very like 'The Turntable' but wasn't quite the same.
Interesting.
Keep the deck - look up Merrill modifications on the web and see what it's capable of, which is to say, it's capable of a lot.

[Stiffy]

Thanks for the info everyone.
I actually got it off a fellow enthusiast for nothing.
I love the sound it produces and it's only got a bobby basic AT91N cart fitted.

[Mr Kipling]

What does the plate on the front face say?

[The Grand Wazoo]

It's the switch

[Mr Kipling]

Really!?! I'll have to have another look.

[synsei]

Thanks for the info everyone.
I actually got it off a fellow enthusiast for nothing.
I love the sound it produces and it's only got a bobby basic AT91N cart fitted.

Bargain alert!!! That is quite a gift :respect:

[DSJR]

The ONLY thing to watch out for with the early 'The Turntable' is a slack main bearing. If the sub-chassis is clamped up for transport with the inner hub in situ, carefully place the palm of your hand on top of the hub and gently try to rock the hub. The XB77 and 'The Turntable' could both have some slop in the bearing sleeves. The original XA,XB and Legend decks seemed to fix this and sounded better for it. The great thing is that as stated above, there's a big updating/refurbing movement for these in the US and I'd personally ask for advice re spare parts there should you need them.

Once this deck is checked over, bearing blue-printed if necessary and re set up carefully, you'll have one of the best suspended-belt-driven turntables out there, if not the poshest looking. This design really was potentially superb and the lightweight suspended and moving parts really worked well too for sonics IMO.


P.S. Don't write the arm off either. Jelco made I suspect, if the headshell socket isn't loose on the pipe (a #0 screwdriver and some Stud-loc will fix it as per the LVX arm), you could fit any of the better AT fixed coil cartridges like an AT120, 440MLa etc and of course the endearing Denon DL110 should put some meat on the bones.

[Andrei]

P.S. Don't write the arm off either. Jelco made I suspect, if the headshell socket isn't loose on the pipe (a #0 screwdriver and some Stud-loc will fix it as per the LVX arm), you could fit any of the better AT fixed coil cartridges like an AT120, 440MLa etc and of course the endearing Denon DL110 should put some meat on the bones.

I have a friend with an AR and it looks very similar to this one. It has a black Jelco 250 tonearm. He uses it for rock with his Tannoy Oxford speakers.

[walpurgis]

P.S. Don't write the arm off either. Jelco made I suspect, if the headshell socket isn't loose on the pipe (a #0 screwdriver and some Stud-loc will fix it as per the LVX arm), you could fit any of the better AT fixed coil cartridges like an AT120, 440MLa etc and of course the endearing Denon DL110 should put some meat on the bones.

I agree with all that. The cartridge recommendations are good. (I too think it is a Jelco)

[The Grand Wazoo]

(I too think it is a Jelco)
It is - there's no doubt about that for me.

[The Barbarian]

Remove the platter & take a photo, i'll tell you what it is.. Thats just a old Brass 'AR' badge that's been stuck on the top cos that old fancy 'AR' logo's was gone by the time the tapered platters were out.

[Stiffy]

Remove the platter & take a photo, i'll tell you what it is.. Thats just a old Brass 'AR' badge that's been stuck on the top cos that old fancy 'AR' logo's was gone by the time the tapered platters were out.

Here's a pic of it with the platter off. The platter's a 2 x part affair.

[The Barbarian]

Looks like an AR 'X' series with 'Legend' shape armboard.. The Platter does not belong to that model deck..

[Mr Kipling]

Well it's definitely an AR deck.

The name plate is from either from an XA or XB.

The top plate might be from an XB, but can't see the hole for the arm rest.

As Andre says, the platter belongs to the later version.

[The Barbarian]

The 'XA' had a small black slide switch at the front/left corner.. But has to be a top plate from one!

[DSJR]

Here's a pic of it with the platter off. The platter's a 2 x part affair.

Does the inner hub sink down quickly with some slight wobble when in place, or is there a definite 'hydraulic' feel as it slowly sinks with no slop once seated? A viscous oil can solve the former (as it does with sloppy early Thorens 160's and 125mk2's - it's been suggested an engine rebuilding oil can work well as a lubricant)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290611037253?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

- also available in small bottles for under a tenner.

Whatever, you have the raw bits of a really good deck there :)

[The Barbarian]

I used to have an AR 'XA' TT with original AR Amp + i think they were AR '4x' speakers, sounded super..

[Mr Kipling]

Well it's definitely an AR deck.

The name plate is from either from an XA or XB.

The top plate might be from an XB, but can't see the hole for the arm rest.

As Andre says, the platter belongs to the later version.

Sorry. The XB had an arm lift lever.

I had an XAU and the top plate was similar to yours except the edges were chamfered and there were cut-outs for the power switch, arm rest and arm lowering platform.

[The Barbarian]

To me it looks like a 'XA' Top plate & Motor. The suspension may well be from a 'Legend' as could be the Sub & Main platter. The sub could be the same diameter as the original 'XA' sub either that or the 'Legend' platter maybe the same fit as the 'XA' platter. I can not see how he could fit the arm & armboard he has by retaining the original 'T' shape suspension.. A shot with the bottom off will tell all loike..

[The Grand Wazoo]

Hmm...something odd there - it looks like the armboard is attached to the top plate instead of the sub-chassis! Has the s-c been locked up or is it just that the photo doesn't show a gap around the board? What's the gunk in the right hand hole?

[The Barbarian]

Or they drilled large holes & used stand offs to raise the armboard a touch a shot with botty off is best bet

[Mr Kipling]

It has to be a re-plinthed XA or XAU in all probability as the sub-chassis is cast and the later revised models were different:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/13/a2e5eban.jpg
And you'd only have to cut the old arm bearing housing out to allow the fitted arm to be used.

I think only the XA and XAU (which was the export version of the XA ) had the brass plate, which is were it probably came from. The top plate of both had a textured-like finish:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/13/y9ynapez.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/13/umu6ezup.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/13/8upyda9a.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/13/dapebusy.jpg

Hope he didn't use that hammer.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/13/ju8u5unu.jpg

[Stiffy]

Interesting all this, very intriguing. I'll try and take its bum off soon and I'll post some more pics.

[The Grand Wazoo]

John - is the sub-chassis rigid or floating on springs?
By which I mean: do the platter and arm wobble when you poke them?!

[Mr Kipling]

Looking at the photo it looks as if the armboard is screwed to the topplate.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/13/e6a4uryn.jpg
The sub-chassis looks tight against the topplate, which it would be without the platter - and so the armboard should be some distance above the topplate, which it doesn't appear to be the case.

[The Barbarian]

It's even a 80's AR Badged arm.

[Mr Kipling]

A riddle wrapped in an enigma. There must have been some reason behind why it was put together as it is. Beyond me though.

[Stiffy]

John - is the sub-chassis rigid or floating on springs?
By which I mean: do the platter and arm wobble when you poke them?!

The sub-chassis is the floating type, can't remember about the arm.
I'll check later.

Meant to say....I discovered last week that it won't play 45's.
With the belt moved to the correct groove on the pulley, the belt keeps jumping off the bottom of the platter after about 2 revolutions.
If this deck isn't meant to have that particular platter fitted it could explain why.

[PaulStewart]

If the sub chassis is not floating and is screwwed up tight against the top plate, then the sib platter will be too high and the belt will come off at 45 if this is the lower bir of the pulley. If the arm is not capable of floatig as is, then some radical surgery could be needed, but the basics are there and it could end up sounding very good indeed.

[walpurgis]

A riddle wrapped in an enigma. There must have been some reason behind why it was put together as it is. Beyond me though.

Probably because somebody did not understand the basic principles of suspended chassis turntables and decided having everything 'solid' was the way to go. Shame really, but all the good bits are still present and a bit of thought and practicality could turn it into a decent unit. It may be that the sub-chassis is up against the top plate because the platter is off, causing it to rise on the springs. Whatever, it needs a good fettle anyway. It's the sort of thing I'd like tinkering with.

[Stiffy]

Probably because somebody did not understand the basic principles of suspended chassis turntables and decided having everything 'solid' was the way to go. Shame really, but all the good bits are still present and a bit of thought and practicality could turn it into a decent unit. It may be that the sub-chassis is up against the top plate because the platter is off, causing it to rise on the springs. Whatever, it needs a good fettle anyway. It's the sort of thing I'd like tinkering with.

Well one thing's for sure....I ain't doing it cos I'm a DIY disaster area.... It either works correctly and sounds good or it's going.
Sounds like it's a bit of a mongrel.

[Mr Kipling]

Have you been using it? If so, did it sound ok? If the arm IS bolted to the topplate it will be coupled to the motor.

[The Grand Wazoo]

And it and/or the arm cable will be fouling the movement of the sub-chassis unless the end of the T-shape has been removed.
And by the way, what is that gunk you can see in the hole nearest to the arm?

[Stiffy]

Have you been using it? If so, did it sound ok? If the arm IS bolted to the topplate it will be coupled to the motor.

yes I use it regularly, I have to push the platter gently to get it going but then it spins up to speed no problem. I was just listening to it at the weekend actually and it sounds good to me. I would say it's slightly better sounding than the Ariston RD60 I had previously. If the arm is coupled to the motor is that a good or bad thing?

[Stiffy]

And it and/or the arm cable will be fouling the movement of the sub-chassis unless the end of the T-shape has been removed.
And by the way, what is that gunk you can see in the hole nearest to the arm?

Goodness knows what it is, it looks and feels like some sort of sound/vibration deadening stuff.
I've wanted to pull it out for ages but am worried I wreck something. It looks crap.

[Stiffy]

What's the screw for to the right of the motor pulley?

[wee tam]

I am guilty of building this , lol ,
it is one of the first AR's with an AR arm , the sub chassis does indeed float but the armboard is :fixed:
the bodywork is indeed a custom {not by me} but rubbed downed and stained by my choice , it came to me in pieces in a couple of boxes and needed some mods to get her running Via stewertwen , and I believe it was owned by someone else on the wam before I got her , price is kind off indecisive , and would be an indication of how much more it would cost to upgrade from here , through say a graham slee gram amp 2 it does take a lot of beating for less than say a grand , tried a few carts through it , and strangely it likes the cheap 91 best , dynamics , weight , soundstage are immense both width and hight , only ousted by a logic DM101 with grace arm and shure v15 mk111 , she is a very good runner , ps if the belt slips off the platter adjust springs up or down , remove baseplate , use a stack of cd cases in each corner and adjust to level john .

[Stiffy]

Folks....Tam is the extremely benevolent gentleman that gifted me this deck.

Tam........I never realised you had built it, you probably told me at the time but I've forgotten (or wasn't listening as err indoors would probably say).
I only discovered the 45rpm issue last week when I tried to play a 12" single (extended remix...remember them?) and the belt kept coming off.
Not sure what you mean about adjusting the spring height although I can tell there are 'boingy' bits in there. I'll take a look inside, I'm sure I'll figure it out. LOL

[wee tam]

not designed as persay john , it was given to me by a TT god , and hifi designer stewert wennen , in a couple of boxes in dozens of bits , his theory was , you wish to know about turntables , here build , improvise , repair , make music , and after some hair pulling , me and alan {madmoon} got her playing music , its not AR the turntable , that's what was marketed to the USA , we were given , I believe ES numbers , but this is certainly one of the first in the uk ,there are of course many hundreds of pounds upgrades available , but as she is , ugly or not , she does make damned fine music , as I told you a long time ago , graham slee gram amp 2 will astound you for an upgrade , she really really sings via one , ask alan , PS you can erm upgrade the cabling , its a plug in one , but it is a LYNE cable in there .

[wee tam]

and as stated , it is a mich mash of early AR's platter /sub platter etc , arm is fixed to sub platter as only a sawn of TBAR was available in the box , had it side by side with a later AR and swapped arms carts etc , but always came back to this combo , even though the later one was P:prettier: and more [most ] wife friendly , but being lucky my wife decides with her ears , not her eyes .

[wee tam]

don't touch , it is a kind of regulator , for the supply to the motor , kind of pointometer .

[wee tam]

the :gungy: bits you see when stripped bare are , pieces of felt glued to all the steel and aluminium parts to remove :ringing: .

[Mr Kipling]

You old dog Tommy… Slipping us all a googly…

At least I'll sleep easy in my bed tonight.

Pulling the pully up a bit might get it to work with 45s.

I'll have to share my "AR Adventure".

[Stiffy]

Good thread this, I've enjoyed it.

[Martyn Miles]

After all this, I still think the original AR XA is really 'the' Acoustic Research turntable. It looks right, somehow...
Come to that, it performs well, too. My 'oldie' was £25, with another £25 spent on getting it running. With a Denon D110 installed it sounds just wonderful.

I'm not trying to take anything away from this much-modded AR. It's been an interesting post to follow...

[The Barbarian]

But we need a pickkie with the bottom removed so we can see the inside..

My old AR 'XA' was an early twin motor version

[wee tam]

it looks horrible underneath ha ha

[Stiffy]

it looks horrible underneath ha ha

I think Mrs Stiffy would say the same about me Tommy: Ha Ha

[The Barbarian]

This topic is utterly pointless without a picture with the bottom off tbh.

[Rush2112]

It looks like my old AR Legend TT mine was fitted with a Helius Scirpio Arm circa early 1980's 83 probably.

[The Barbarian]

Well tbh this thread is utterly pointless without a shot with the bottom off. It's obviously not gonna happen hence like i said pointless & the o/p will never get a definate answer apart from just guesses.

:rolleyes: