View Full Version : Weighty Speaker Cable for Rega RS1? Advice Very Much Welcomed!
Hello All :)
new to the forum and as a late returnee to hifi trying to build up my first system in years and would really appreciate the benefit of your wisdom and experience in picking speaker cables.
System comprises Rega RP6/Exact TT (wasn't intending to spend that much but loved it!), Arcam A18 amplifier and Rega RS1 speakers.
I bought some Chord Carnival Silverscreen speaker cable to finish things off but I find this cable's balance to be too mid/top emphasised.
Can you recommend a fuller, weightier sounding cable at a reasonable price?
Length is 2x3m runs
Thanks guys
John
Stratmangler
29-09-2014, 12:35
Doncaster Cables 0.75mm˛ mains flex, 2 core :)
It's kicked some very expensive cables into the weeds in some installations ;)
http://www.yesss.co.uk/cables-accessories-c2/cables-c713/2192y-white-2-core-plain-annealed-copper-pvc-insulated-pvc-sheathed-flexible-cord-light-duty-p6578
The Belden stuff that's doing the rounds on the forum just now is very very good.
Have you heard it now Gaz?
Nipping over to Brian's on Thursday, he reckons it blows his Talk 3 out the water.
Doncaster Cables 0.75mm˛ mains flex, 2 core :)
It's kicked some very expensive cables into the weeds in some installations ;)
http://www.yesss.co.uk/cables-accessories-c2/cables-c713/2192y-white-2-core-plain-annealed-copper-pvc-insulated-pvc-sheathed-flexible-cord-light-duty-p6578
:exactly: :eyebrows:
Marco.
Stratmangler
29-09-2014, 18:26
:exactly: :eyebrows:
Marco.
'nuff said! ;)
<Cough> TQ Ultra-Black <Cough>
:D
Marco.
Doncaster Cables 0.75mm˛ mains flex, 2 core :)
It's kicked some very expensive cables into the weeds in some installations ;)
http://www.yesss.co.uk/cables-accessories-c2/cables-c713/2192y-white-2-core-plain-annealed-copper-pvc-insulated-pvc-sheathed-flexible-cord-light-duty-p6578
Sure I have a reel of that lying around somewhere. ....so it makes good speaker cable you reckon?
Stratmangler
29-09-2014, 19:05
Sure I have a reel of that lying around somewhere. ....so it makes good speaker cable you reckon?
Yup! :)
Don't be daft - it's far too cheap to be considered for use as a speaker cable :eyebrows:
just wondering like. I remember a hifi maker who was using mains cable for speaker wire. Think it was that orange stuff, and had everyone at the show asking where they could get it. think he took it off his lawn mower. sold it for a fortune......If I find it I might make up a couple of runs and try it.... Used to have that stuff coming out f my ears but got rid of most of it.:doh:
Stratmangler
29-09-2014, 19:40
IIRC Quad used orange flex when they introduced their last incarnation of electrostatic speakers.
I personally find it both amusing and indicative of the audiophool condition that such cable is dismissed out of hand - exotic it ain't, but it should be the first thing to reach for instead of the cables that have been rolled in Shangri La on the thighs of virginal maidens.
IIRC Quad used orange flex when they introduced their last incarnation of electrostatic speakers.
I personally find it both amusing and indicative of the audiophool condition that such cable is dismissed out of hand - exotic it ain't, but it should be the first thing to reach for instead of the cables that have been rolled in Shangri La on the thighs of virginal maidens.
Too true, if it works then fine.....I got 4 reels of that 2 core off a place that shut down and gave most of it away, but think I kept 1. Never thought I'd have a use for it; always the same, you keep things for years and when you get rid, yo find a use for it :doh:..it'll be in the back of the shed probably...sure it was doncaster cables
Thanks guys,
spurred on by your advice......just listening to a set I just rattled up from 1.5mm2 tri-rated multistrand single core mains wiring I had in the garage from an old panel wiring job many years ago.
Not sounding half bad actually!
Will run them for a while and then swap back to the Chord stuff.
Oh, and does speaker cable need run in?
(ducks)
You tell me.
How does a small electrical current change the inter-molecular properties of copper.
If the mains does not work, my favourite cable at the moment is Belden RG-8/U.
You tell me.
How does a small electrical current change the inter-molecular properties of copper.
If the mains does not work, my favourite cable at the moment is Belden RG-8/U.
Theoretically it doesnt, but I have heard changes over time. Possibly my perception, I dont know. Maybe our technology has exceeded our understanding.
Stratmangler
29-09-2014, 20:41
I don't think the cable changes, but what's hanging off one end of it might.
Gazjam - your PM inbox is full!
Paul Lange
29-09-2014, 21:08
I've used conduit cable in the past which is really mains flex but without the outer jacket and it seemed to work well. I soldered it to some banana plugs to ensure a good durable connection. I think that good connections, preferably soldered, are important as a lot of degradation is from oxidation effecting non soldered joints. More expensive speaker cable tends to be from materials that don't degrade quite so quickly. It may well sound better and keep sounding better for longer but I have not really made an effort to see if I can tell the difference. However, in the past I have changed speaker cable and just felt that something was not right then changed back to the old cable and started enjoying the music again. I couldn't really put my finger on what was different but there was something about the sound that I didn't enjoy.
Did anyone go to the first show at Molten Mowbray about 6-7 years ago? I think it was a guy called Steve Shields who had a great sounding system with a load of valve amps and some huge DIY open baffle speakers. Stunning sound and as his 2 fingers to lovers of expensive esoteric speaker cables he used some old mains cable, even had a couple of terminal block connectors joining lengths together.
Wonderful sound, terrible cable. Made me wonder if it sounded good because all the connections were made just prior to the show. If you can maintain the quality of the connections this outweighs differences in cable. But then why did I perceive a difference that I didn't like when I put a new cable in that time, weird.
Stratmangler
29-09-2014, 21:19
It's Steve Shiels wot organises the Owsten bash.
Smashing bloke, and a smashing get together too!
There's one coming up soon - 1st & 2nd November - be nice to see you there if you can make it.
Paul Lange
30-09-2014, 18:50
I presume you mean Owston, nr. Doncaster?
Maybe but it is a bit of a trek for me.
Does Steve still have his huge open baffles (and dodgy speaker cable)?
OK, going to get some Van Damme 4mm.
Even so the mains cable is sounding good :)
Must say, it's good to be back (in front of a decent hifi). Turntables are a complete time machine, put the needle down and the side's over in no time.
Albert Collins Iceman album on all night - Fuunkaay!:eyebrows:
Found that reel of Doncaster 2 core. It is fine, and was at the back of the bench in my warm shed so should be excellent. Think I'll get some ends and make some up.
Ordered some Nak plugs and spades etc so will see when they arrive
Stratmangler
02-10-2014, 08:53
I'm waiting for some plugs to turn up too.
I'm hoping that they land today :)
brian2957
02-10-2014, 10:15
This looks interesting and worth trying at the price chaps . Please keep us posted .
These plugs have arrived already! Less than a day with free postage.they look super as well
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/02/7f6dceced9e4407046dff445bfbb0b58.jpg
Stratmangler
02-10-2014, 21:41
My plugs are nothing flash, just a couple of packs of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gold-Plated-Screw-Type-Banana-Plugs-14-8-AWG-set-of-4-/400298803791?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cable_Termin ations&hash=item5d33ab024f
They arrived today, so I've made up a couple of lengths of the flex and it's hooked up between the amp and speakers.
I'm playing music right now, and it sounds great!
I didn't expect any different.
The speaker cable I was using is Cable Talk 3 (being a few pounds cash per metre).
It cost a lot more than the flex,(less than 40p per metre), but doesn't sound any better.
I think the flex is staying :eyebrows:
REGA RS1's CHAPS!!!!!!! used with a gentle sounding (from memory) Arcam amp..
No wonder that Chord Co stuff didn't suit! The 4mm Van Damme should help a bit, but getting meat on the RS1 bones may be quite difficult as speed and sparkle is the order of the day here IMO.
Don't care how good the 0.75mm twin cable is, in this case I don't think it would match as well. So many lesser gauge wires have a 'thin-ness' to the tone and Rega speakers just don't need their tweeters exposed even more - IMO :)
My plugs are nothing flash, just a couple of packs of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gold-Plated-Screw-Type-Banana-Plugs-14-8-AWG-set-of-4-/400298803791?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cable_Termin ations&hash=item5d33ab024f
They arrived today, so I've made up a couple of lengths of the flex and it's hooked up between the amp and speakers.
I'm playing music right now, and it sounds great!
I didn't expect any different.
The speaker cable I was using is Cable Talk 3 (being a few pounds cash per metre).
It cost a lot more than the flex,(less than 40p per metre), but doesn't sound any better.
I think the flex is staying :eyebrows:
I'm hoping to get time in the next few days...maybe tomorrow and make up a set for the shed set up initially.... I'll post pics if I do a decent job.....so don't hold your breath.:eyebrows:
STOP PRESS!! These speakers are not run-in yet, bought as ex-dem but I think they have very low milleage on them. Sound is fleshing out with use. Still getting some new cable though, torn between Mogami and Van Damme now!
Speaker running in is a big misnomer of you're expecting massive changes. If a speaker changes THAT much, it's faulty - think about it ;)
Heavy gauge copper is the order of the day. Apparently, it's been said that far eastern copper is largely recycled and contains more impurities, but obviously I could be totally wrong here. Don't know the Mogami I'm afraid, but the Van Damme is used the world over and is a well known quantity :)
changed this
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/03/db886060d02ee5fab2336ffc9d443505.jpg
FOR THIS
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/03/4fd2cdb1b3679ccd886cbf3eb7a0a68f.jpg
More bass but less definition me thinks.
Will have a listen tomorrow while re plugging the van damme then swap back
Speaker running in is a big misnomer of you're expecting massive changes. If a speaker changes THAT much, it's faulty - think about it ;)
I don't think it is a misnomer. Speakers can change massively with running in, mostly dependant on the bass driver material. I suspect the paper cones of the Regas will need less than most (polypropylene and the like). As the bass drivers loosen up they shift more air and the overall sonic balance tends to become fuller and more dynamic and mids loose any cuppiness/nasal tones. Speakers typically sound less fierce but I suspect that has more to do with the bass driver output increasing than the tweeter smoothing out. Just my experience FWIW.
Stratmangler
03-10-2014, 21:59
More bass but less definition me thinks.
Will have a listen tomorrow while re plugging the van damme then swap back
That's not the same spec cable as the one I'm using.
The mm˛ is different, and the stranding possibly so.
Which one specifically is it that you have?
I've noticed some subtle running in element with mine - whether it's the cable or what's hanging off it I'm not even going to guess.
I turned on the Squeezebox this morning to put the radio on, and immediately thought things sounded a bit shut in and flat.
I left the Squeezebox playing Radio2 all day, and my son has been running his XBox / the TV (the TV is hooked up to my M2Tech DAC) through it this evening - generally I think you could say it's being soak tested, and I'll do so for a few more days :)
it is
0.75mm˛ 50m 3182Y Black 2 Core Plain Annealed Copper / PVC Insulated / PVC Sheathed.
Looks to be pretty much the same but who knows........
Stratmangler
03-10-2014, 22:36
I'd noticed the difference in the colour of the outer sheathing from your photo.
Checking out the copper spec and it's same stuff.
The only difference is the insulation thickness of the inner cores and the obvious outer sheathing.
If you can soak test it for a few days.
I'll be running it over the weekend then switching back to the van damme and see once my ear has got used to it if the van's better it.....going to put the same connectors on the van's so it is a fair test.
Made up the van damme cable and gave the donny a run again. Sounded a bit sweeter today.
To be fair I cut the damme to 2 metres as it was over twice that length. This means I have a spare length I can make another pair with .A bonus
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/04/4ef355cb925a67480ef122c3bb16df90.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/04/69cbeee346d5cbb04ef02f8d48d0261c.jpg
I don't think it is a misnomer. Speakers can change massively with running in, mostly dependant on the bass driver material. I suspect the paper cones of the Regas will need less than most (polypropylene and the like). As the bass drivers loosen up they shift more air and the overall sonic balance tends to become fuller and more dynamic and mids loose any cuppiness/nasal tones. Speakers typically sound less fierce but I suspect that has more to do with the bass driver output increasing than the tweeter smoothing out. Just my experience FWIW.
Ok, after all I've said, I remember ATC running their batches of big (12" plus) bass units for twenty minutes at 20Hz, enough for substantial cone travel. This was nothing to do with sonics, but merely to say that if the drivers could withstand this, they'd withstand anything a studio could chuck at them short of an amp going DC..
Actually, I think tweeters may take the longest to bed in fully and the quickest to wear out. Headphone diaphragms can take some hours to sort their treble out too. The hashy tweeters B&W fitted to the 601's twenty years or so ago definitely sweetened up after some years and going too far that way, some well used Mission 770 mk1's all but lost their rather prominent treble when new.
I would think if there is any break in time with drivers it will only be an hour or so to take the stiffness away. Crossovers may improve a little maybe.....A lot has to do with your brain and how it perceives the differing sound waves I think.....Cables? again I am still to be convinced but am always open to hearing tests. Thus I am doing just that with these cables......If I get used to the new ones and then think they are great, then when I put the old ones back in and I think they are now poorer initially then later prefer them again, I will know its my Brain.
Well, I've finished the trial with the Doncaster cables and put back the replugged van damme ones. No contest tbh , van damme wins by a knockout. A bit like Bugner v Tyson me has to say!
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